Irving police chief admits: Cops knew Ahmed Mohamed didn’t have a bomb when they arrested him

[Lunabell]

Source: Raw Story

Irving Police Chief Larry Boyd refused to say on Thursday that his officers erred in arresting 14-year-old Ahmed Mohamed on Monday even though they allegedly knew he did not bring a bomb to his high school.

MSNBC host Chris Hayes gave Boyd the opportunity to admit to a mistake, while conceding that people understood that officers need to be on high alert regarding possible attacks against a school.

However, Hayes said, “I think it’s hard for folks watching this from the outside, seeing this all link up, seeing this kid — who seems like a tremendously poised, bright, genuine kid — be put through this. To not hear from anyone in officialdom down there that ‘Yeah, we didn’t get this one right.'”

“The officers made the decision they did with the information they had with what they thought was right at the time,” Boyd responded. “We are clearly going to review this. We want to always look at ways we can enhance and have a better outcome. There’s a lot of decision points, there’s a lot of alternatives that they have available to them.”

Read more: http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/irving-police-chief-admits-cops-knew-ahmed-mohamed-didnt-have-a-bomb-when-they-arrested-him/

---

Hats off to this thread here for calling it out before it was known: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027180415

[merrily]

1. "Damn! They never thought he had a bomb!" Kudos to pepperbear.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027180415

[ReactFlux]

12. So, they thought it was a hoax, and tried to strong arm a confession?

Is that what they are admitting to?

[rocktivity]

43. More like, they knew it wasn't a bomb AND that there had not been a hoax

Last edited Fri Sep 18, 2015, 03:57 PM - Edit history (6)

and hoped to strong arm information out of him about the terrorist activities of his relatives -- along with a confession.


rocktivity

[merrily]

55. No hoax. Please see Reply 34.

[rocktivity]

62. I stand corrected

I should have posted, "They knew it wasn't a bomb, AND they knew it wasn't a hoax."


rocktivity

[merrily]

63. I think you just nailed it.

[merrily]

54. There was no hoax. The kid made a clock. When asked what it was, he said, "It's a clock." No hoax.

[ReactFlux]

81. Right, but they thought it was a hoax

And try to strong arm a confession out of him.

[merrily]

82. They imagined a hoax or pretended to imagine a hoax so they could bully the kid.

Last edited Sun Sep 20, 2015, 07:38 AM - Edit history (1)

That's my take, anyway.

[rocktivity]

42. With this post running a close second

Kudos to EllenG:

"Ok, so you thought the boy made a bomb...And instead of evacuating the school, you pulled him out of class...then interrogated him on the premises without getting the children to safety?...

"Oh, ok, so...you lied to police and federal authorities in order to bring up false charges against a minor...?

"Let me know...which charges you'd like to go up on...so we can get the paperwork right."

rocktivity

[merrily]

44. This really reeks, doesn't it. Then again, he's still alive, so I guess he should be grateful?

[SusanaMontana41]

2. I'm surprised that he wasn't put in a chokehold, hog-tied

and thrown into a paddy wagon.

[DetlefK]

3. Isn't a bomb supposed to contain, you know, explosives?

If the device is nothing but soldered electronics, what will explode?

[HooptieWagon]

5. What will explode? Wingnut's heads...

...when a Muslim kid solders a science project together.
Pepperbear called it...school and cops already knew it wasn't a bomb when they arrested him.

[retrowire]

8. i hate to repeat this in every thread with this question but

not everyone is as smart as we are and they get their explosives education from movies and tv.

[Downwinder]

14. Thought you were supposed to get

education in school.

[retrowire]

16. on bombs?

maybe in college but not public school.

[Downwinder]

17. Nobody ever thought there was a bomb.

No safety procedures were initiated. Just authoritarian procedures to put a kid in his place.

FWIW 60 years ago my High School Chemistry instructor would have recognized an explosive or potential explosive.

[retrowire]

18. i agree that it's possible nobody actually thought it was a bomb

but alot of people are actually stupid.

that said, I think they were using any excuse to get rid of the scary Muslim kid. the bastards.

and teachers from that long ago were more well rounded than some today.

[Downwinder]

19. I don't know if it was because

he is Muslim, brown, or just smarter. Police states are not noted for their intelligence or critical thinking.

[yeoman6987]

26. They wanted his name in the system

Guaranteed that's why they arrested him. They don't have the courage to say that out loud.

[WestSeattle2]

32. That was my first thought too.

[-none]

77. That definitely makes a lot of sense.

Brought to you by the same paranoid mind set that thinks the Patriot Act is a good thing. In another decade or so, this kid will be on somebodies watch list because of this.

I'm thinking if this teenager were to be white and named Jimmy Smith, no one would know about this clock, other than the original teacher that he showed his clock to.

[Trajan]

60. They didn't evacuate the school or call the Bomb Squad

So, no actual concern of an actual bomb ..

[snooper2]

25. hoax bomb, you can get in trouble for that...but the school and cops are still fucking idiots

[merrily]

47. "Just authoritarian procedures to put a kid in his place." Wasn't he already in his place?

He answered their questions.

[Downwinder]

50. First part of the freshman term,

this guy is showing off. He built a digital clock, nobody else built a digital clock. This fellow is going to be trouble, he is too smart. Have to get control of him now, stamp him into the mold. He might ask questions we can't answer, he might even question our erroneous textbooks.

[merrily]

52. That does not resonate with me. I don't know that police harass smart kids for being smart.

I think it was his name and ethnicity.

[Downwinder]

56. The police are lackeys for the school.

Last edited Fri Sep 18, 2015, 02:00 PM - Edit history (1)

I think those came into play. Nevertheless, I think intellectual curiosity was the main culprit.

[ReactFlux]

27. and they were so dumb they forgot to follow SOP, too?

i don't think so, i think they knew there wasn't a bomb, so no need for SOP requiring evacuations, bomb squads, etc.

[Statistical]

29. Well then you don't arrest someone.

Pretty simple huh. I mean imagine if you are walking down the street and you pull out a cellphone and I tackle you (or shoot you). Would it be a defense that "I didn't know what a bomb looked like so I thought her phone might be a bomb".

I mean it doesn't even make sense. If you don't know what X looks like then you really can't genuinely say I arrested a person for having X.

[Taitertots]

31. "Supreme leader, I think you're getting your information from cartoons"

"Have you consulted professor Popeye?"

[Stryst]

38. I'd buy that if the first teacher he had shown it to hadn't been an Engineer.

I've seen the clock (on the Nightly Show) and there's just no 'lump' or package to BE explosives. And if they thought it was a bomb, genuinely, why wasn't the school evacuated? When I was in high school (back in the deep dark 90's) any time someone so much as called in a bomb threat, we immediately got sent home. No evacuation, and no bomb squad called. The cops knew that it wasn't a bomb.

[winter is coming]

57. When I was in high school, bomb threats were common.

They'd send us outside for a while, and then call us back in. Once, they sent us home, but it still turned out to be nothing.

[Gormy Cuss]

80. Yep. Bomb threats happened like clockwork...

on nice Indian summer days in the fall, first nice warm days in Spring-- and of course on exam weeks. We'd evacuate the school, the fire dept. would show up and do whatever, then we'd be led back into the building.

[Chemisse]

4. So they arrested him for pretending to have a bomb?

I think that's their position. But if he never used the device to scare anyone, how can they charge him? (It's hardly his fault that school administrators were scared).

As usual, cops being big bullies with only one mode of operation.

[jberryhill]

30. Yes, he was arrested because they suspected him of pretending to have a bomb

It is not a stunning revelation that they never thought he had a bomb.

If you are arrested for trying to sell oregano to someone and claim it is marijuana, your defense is not "the cops knew I didn't have marijuana", since you weren't arrested for having marijuana.

But if he never used the device to scare anyone, how can they charge him?

They didn't charge him.

[fbc]

34. It's a reasonable suspicion

He took the innards of a clock and repackaged them.

The idea that he did this to pretend it was a bomb is at least as reasonable as the idea that a 9th grader thought what he was doing was "making a clock"

[jberryhill]

35. Meh

Look, tinkering starts with tearing apart things and modifying them. At age 14, constructing a different case for the innards of a clock is not entirely insignificant. If you want to believe that design engineering is not a "thing" because designers don't etch the circuit boards, that's fine. But this kind of thing is what leads to other things. I tore apart and modified a lot of things before I started building things from scratch - that's how it works.

No, it's not a Tom Swift wonder of science, and there are certainly 14 year-olds who do more advanced stuff. But that's not really the larger point here.

[fbc]

41. Thank you for that reasonable reply

You may not have agreed with my post, but at least you acknowledge that there is a middle between bomb hoax and MIT student scholar, and took the time to explain your thoughts.

[jberryhill]

45. The thing about "reasonable suspicion" is that once the reason goes away...

...then there is no cause for further detention.

The only thing to question, in relation to someone intended to scare people with a suspicious device, is subjective intent.

Given that he had shown it to the relevant teacher previously, those circumstances could be easily and quickly checked out with the first teacher, at the school, with utterly no cause to then take him into custodial detention.

Sure, you can say, "The second teacher was surprised by an unusual device, and the question became whether he intended to cause such surprise."

Simply increasing the pressure on the student is not going to be a productive mechanism of getting to the question of intent. That's the witch trial approach - if he admits it, he's guilty; if he denies it, he's lying. One can do that forever, and get nowhere. Additionally, there is no good purpose served by taking him into custody on the facts available to him, since ascertaining the relevant circumstances by investigating whatever the first teacher might have to say, or whatever they might turn up by talking to other people, doesn't require them to be in custody, and a "hoax bomb" doesn't represent a threat of harm by releasing him after the initial "reasonable suspicion" inquiry - especially if they hang onto the device until they were done.

There is a lot more background going on here, particularly in view of just who the student's father is.

[marble falls]

84. Not with this kid. Its not reasonable to suspect everything, its paranoid or in this case: racist.

[merrily]

48. I don't think he pretended to have a bomb.

[DhhD]

87. I think that kids were running ahead of him to the classes following Engineering to continue to

bully him like they did in Middle School. The 9th grade teacher believed the bullies from 8th grade. They made up the lie to cause the boy more trouble and set him up again in the new school; high school. Cops knew about the bad bullying from the past. That is why the school was not evacuated. The boy is now looking for a new school since the teacher, administration and now new students have jumped on the bullying wagon. The situation has escalated to a bus load number of bullies ranging from all age groups and segments of society. Thankfully President Obama and MIT are throwing the bullies off the bus!

[merrily]

88. At least, when he goes to the new school, he can tell them about his meeting with Obama.

[ejbr]

6. These assholes

should admit they messed up to better put this matter to rest. But since they refused him counsel or parents, their goose should be cooked anyway

[A Simple Game]

9. The only way anyone especially a cop can improve is if they admit their mistakes.

It is understandable for cops to make mistakes, they often have to react quickly to situations and understandably have to err on the side of their own safety. But when a mistake is made, admit it and try to improve by the learning experience.

For the chief to condone their behavior is not being fair to the cops or their victim. This situation provided ample time for them to assess the situation and handle it correctly. Even if they felt they needed to detain the child, it could have been done more professionally and courteously.

[ejbr]

23. +1 n/t

[Enthusiast]

7. Brown Shirts

[TxGrandpa]

10. The Irving police has backed themselves into a corner...

.... and can't find a face-saving way out. They and the school screwed up big-time!

[The Wizard]

11. We have become

what we defeated in 1945.

[Trajan]

61. Careful with that ' WE 'word ...

We is all inclusive, yet you can be sure none of us ever condoned this outrageous behavior ...

So, yeah, careful with the WE word ...

[GoneFishin]

13. Seems like a pretty good case for civil rights violations.

[christx30]

22. Seems like a slam dunk to me.

Knowing there was no bomb. Arresting him. Interrogating the kid, demanding he admit to their lie.
If this isn't a civil rights violation, MLK was a Norweigen.

[Joe Chi Minh]

15. An intensive course in the Three R's might be helpful. Learning nursery rhymes, too.

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. Well, yeah, we knew on Wednesday the original arrest was for possessing "a hoax bomb"

They were accusing him of doing this to frighten people and get the police involved. That's why this looks so much like Islamophobia.

The police statement from Wednesday:

Having no other information to go on, and taking into consideration the device’s suspicious
appearance and the safety of the students and staff at MacArthur High School, the student was
taken into custody for possessing a hoax bomb.

Under Texas law, a person is guilty of possessing a hoax bomb if he possesses a device that is
intended to cause anyone to be alarmed or a reaction of any type by law enforcement officers.
Following standard procedure the student was handcuffed for his safety and for the safety of
the officers and was transported to a juvenile processing area of the police station.

http://www.irvingisd.net/cms/lib010/TX01917973/Centricity/Domain/4/Media%20Release%20091615%20MacArthur%20Student%20Will%20Not%20Face%20Charges.pdf

And the reaction of the police officer shows they were already biased against the family:

They led Ahmed into a room where four other police officers waited. He said an officer he’d never seen before leaned back in his chair and remarked: “Yup. That’s who I thought it was.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2015/09/16/a-clock-is-not-a-bomb-ahmeds-arrest-and-why-we-cant-have-nice-things/

[merrily]

49. How does a clock that has been identified as a clock qualify as a "hoax bomb?"

[muriel_volestrangler]

58. They were claiming malice on Ahmed's part

They were accusing him of intending people to mistake it for a bomb. They say that in itself would be illegal. That's why I think it looks like discrimination on their part; they thought, without him ever having said anything like that, he did it to frighten people, because they know his father.

[merrily]

59. Ah, an imaginary hoax. Or police lying about an imaginary hoax and also lying about the law.

[ahimsa]

70. Alarmed by a clock?

Under Texas law, a person is guilty of possessing a hoax bomb if he possesses a device that is
intended to cause anyone to be alarmed

I think that's the problem right there, assuming the clock was an alarm clock. That law needs to be clarified if people are going to take it so literally.

[Rex]

21. Sigh. Once again a cop is given the chance to admit fault and OF COURSE

NEVER...this "we don't do mistakes" is really destroying any trust communities have with LEO. Pathetic and childish imo. Everyone makes mistakes Chief, don't be like all the other stupid fucks of the world and just admit fault.

[GoneFishin]

28. I have noticed this over many years too. They dig in their heels rather than admit they fucked up.

[jberryhill]

37. Next time you are in position to be sued, go ahead and admit liability

[GoneFishin]

46. I don't double down on my mistakes out of pride or machismo. But I understand what you are saying

about lawsuits.

[displacedtexan]

24. Sounds like the standard Rumsfeld defense to me.

The officers made the decision they did with the information they had with what they thought was right at the time,” Boyd responded. “We are clearly going to review this..."

[Gore1FL]

33. I was of the understanding they never thought it was a real bomb, but that he was intending a hoax.

The problem with that, however, is the only person who came up with that scenario was the oblivious teacher.

[rocktivity]

65. But he never said it was a bomb

and more to the point, no one at the school said that he said it was a bomb. So how is he guilty of a bomb hoax?


rocktivity

[Gore1FL]

71. That's my point.

The teacher was the only one that came up with that nonsense. He showed her a clock, and she said that looks like a bomb, and he said no it doesn't, and then he was sent to the principal for making a hoax bomb threat that he never made.

That's how I have always understood the story.

[Cal Carpenter]

36. Obviously. If they really thought it was a bomb, they would have evacuated the school

not let the kid sit in an office with it waiting.

If they really thought it was a bomb, they would have treated the situation a lot differently. But they just wanted to humiliate a dark-skinned African Muslim kid.

[dickthegrouch]

39. Why is nobody talking about the other violations?

Ahmed said afterwards that they interrogated him at length without an adult or parent or attorney present. He is a minor. He specifically said he was refused access to his parents. THAT ALONE should get somebody fired.

We need a constitutional amendment that ALL minors are afforded an attorney the instant they are arrested. They WALK if that doesn't happen.

[PufPuf23]

40. I hope the boy gets a good civil settlement with Irving PD and the school nt

[Jesus Malverde]

51. This all started with a "teacher"

Have they apologized to their zero tolerance idiocy yet?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

53. They arrested him because they wanted to get applause from white people.

[Moonwalk]

66. No. They arrested him to send a message to brown people, and because they stupidly didn't think....

...the story would spread any further than the town. This was a message to the Islamic community: "watch yourselves." It's the same old bullshit message to non-white populations that law enforcement has always sent: "We can arrest you for anything at any time with impunity."

[Spitfire of ATJ]

67. That too, but keep in mind the cops would stop this if there wasn't support for it....

I'm referring to the FOX "News" crowd who cheered when they saw Ferguson and stood out with signs supporting the cops. Those people encourage the police to target minorities. Hell, they think it's the JOB of the cops to arrest minorities who get out of line like they're Animal Control. We saw an article here a few months back about people calling 911 to report a black guy walking down their street.

[lark]

64. Pure fucking BS!!

It wasn't a hoax because he wasn't and never did claim it was a bomb. He said it was a clock, it was indeed a clock. The excuse is BS and he knows it. They've already decided to exonerate the cops and this is the feeble attempt at a reason. No one who pays attention is going to buy this lie.

[Turbineguy]

68. So..... that means

they are going to arrest Fox News and wingnut radio people for sowing fear?

[gregcrawford]

69. "It's my party and I'll lie if I want to..."

... As an astute observer mentioned earlier today, they did not evacuate the school, they did not call the bomb squad, they did not do ANYTHING they are supposed to do when there is an actual bomb threat. And then they carried the clock to the police station in their cruiser. They knew it was nothing, but they just bullied and terrorized a 14-year-old boy for the pure malicious fun of it, because that's the kind of diseased thugs they are. And the hoax bullshit requires them to PROVE intent. Good luck with that, assholes.

[mahannah]

72. Certainly bring no laptops or shoes to this school.

[kath]

73. "presented in a way that it creates people to be afraid.” - Wow. What a great command of the English

language this *Chief* of Police has!
Not.
i know that police departments deliberately avoid hiring people that are "too smart" - they like 'em dumb. But Jeebus H. Christ, this guy is chief?!?

[jberryhill]

74. That kind of speech...

...is more of a practical paraphrase of the statute...

TEX PE. CODE ANN. § 46.08 : Texas Statutes - Section 46.08: HOAX BOMBS

(a) A person commits an offense if the person knowingly manufactures, sells, purchases, transports, or possesses a hoax bomb with intent to use the hoax bomb to:

(1) make another believe that the hoax bomb is an explosive or incendiary device; or

(2) cause alarm or reaction of any type by an official of a public safety agency or volunteer agency organized to deal with emergencies.

(b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

[avebury]

75. This shows just how much this country is doomed

if the teacher/school/police are so afraid of an intelligent kid. There is such a push to dumb down our citizens in order for the powers to be to obtain total control over everyone.

What made the USA so great in the past was the innovative thinking of our people. The Tea Party/Far Right think God forbid if children should actually learn how to think for themselves.

[Ashdric]

76. Profiling

At its worst.

[Munificence]

78. I personally think

this shit is funny as hell.

I mean think about it. We've given up all of our "freedumbs" and demanded it. I mean if we have not demanded it, then it's scare tactics all the way down from the top (Including the POTUS).

We have teachers under the disguise of a "union" rating out every little thing a student does (hey lets make a gun out out a pop tart). We've got drones, militarized police force. Everyone here screaming from the tops of the roofs about "guns", terrorist,etc".....we are a scared bunch of chicken shits. IN the middle of a "everything is controlled by the gov" scenario.

FREEDOM...yeah right. Disgusting and there is no difference between our side and theirs, we have put ourselves right where they want us and it's all about control....and it's fucking pathetic...we have even demanded it.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

79. Its hard for me to understand the level of fear gripping this country.

Seems like people have lost their ability for critical thinking, tell them anything and they are willing to believe it, yet ignore the very real dangers of driving drunk, playing with guns and all the environmental problems that are coming our way.
Just saying.

[marble falls]

83. Using the chiefs reasoning: cops are uniformed to intimidate. That makes them terrorists.

[sulphurdunn]

85. They arrested the kid

because they wanted to and because they could. Cops like to arrest people. That's what they do, and they can pull any lame excuse for doing it right out of their asses. Once you've been arrested you become a full employment cash cow for the criminal justice system regardless of the outcome.

[marble falls]

86. ‘That’s a clock and I’m the Queen of England': Ranting Sarah Palin thinks Ahmed Mohamed was up to no

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/thats-a-clock-and-im-the-queen-of-england-ranting-sarah-palin-thinks-ahmed-mohamed-was-up-to-no-good/

‘That’s a clock and I’m the Queen of England': Ranting Sarah Palin thinks Ahmed Mohamed was up to no good


Vice presidential candidate-cum-Facebook ranter Sarah Palin thinks 14-year-old Texas 9th grader Ahmed Mohamed should have been arrested for making a clock at home and bringing it to school to show his teacher.

In a winding Friday night post, Palin aired her suspicions that the “obstinate-answering” boy was really up to no good and Irving police and school officials have been wrongly maligned in the “reactionary-slash-biased media!” The case has generated outrage amid the belief that Mohamed was arrested due to anti-Muslim bias and not any genuine threat posed.

<snip>