Iran to 'reverse engineer' US drone
Iran claimed that it had begun exploiting a US drone equipped with the latest radar evading technology on Monday as officials warned that the downed machine could be shared with America's rivals.
Parviz Sorouri, an MP on parliament's foreign policy committee, said that Iranian experts were in the final stages of recovering the data from the surveillance drone, which was captured on Iranian territory last week.
Tehran has paraded the loss of the drone as a blow to the US and claimed it plans to reproduce the technology. It said its security forces had shot the drone down using previously secret air defence systems.
The drone, which is made from the latest 'stealth' technology, has been presented as a valuable windfall for its defence scientists.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/8951414/Iran-to-reverse-engineer-US-drone.html
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Nothing to worry about.It is all lies and Fabrication by Iran.
Who are you going to beleive? "The Evil doing,Lying,Muslim,Islamic Fantatic Iran,or the Honest truthfull American military and Govt,who have NEVER led you astray?
Now you all quit being so worried.
Nothing to see here,so just move along
icymist
(15,888 posts)n/t
DocMac
(1,628 posts)if Iran was able to shoot it down. And it wouldn't be in such good shape if it was hit with a missle.
It doesn't even look like it crashed on the ground. Hmmmm?
saras
(6,670 posts)
former9thward
(33,424 posts)And every other insane dictator around the world? Afterall parity is safer, right?
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)They can not operate it, they can not maintain it, they can only take it apart and try to understand what is older US technology.
What they can do is shop it to China etc for more weapons.
Again, what does this have to do with parity?
geomon666
(7,519 posts)BOHICA12
(471 posts)Plus that composite stuff is just the bombdiggity to anaylize. Call in the Chinese!
hunter
(40,530 posts)But not for the same reasons. Maybe I could transplant the guts into a really cool quarter or half-scale android cell-phone controlled model airplane and be the coolest damned kid on the block.
I'm certain Iran has other motives, first off, figuring out how they might intercept and interfere with the communications of these very, very expensive remote control airplanes.
Po_d Mainiac
(4,183 posts)For something that supposedly was shot down, the things looks to be way too intact.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)and they thought you flew like kite and the string broke. 
Po_d Mainiac
(4,183 posts)Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)Based on other examples of Iran's "advanced" military technology, based on what the Iranian military is making, virtually all of their home built military equipment is a modification of a mid to late 1960's (if not earlier) piece of foreign made equipment. This strongly suggests that they lack the technical expertise and the necessary tooling to build a stealth drone, much less the electronics and sensors inside.
As an example, the latest 2 fighters that the Iranians are making themselves are modifications of the US F-5 Tiger, a low cost, relatively low tech, light fighter designed and built primarily for export. If the Iranians were so technologically advanced, they should be making copies or modifications of the F-4 Phantom or F-14 Tomcat, both of which they have, both are far more useful and sophisticated aircraft.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)They will learn a lot from it but being able to reverse engineer all of it is impossible.
On the other hand there is a guy at the mall who has a remote controlled helicopter that can do a lot of the same functions
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)The skill sets are different, and it requires access to a supply chain for critical components to replicate it.
Xithras
(16,191 posts)Iranian students can, and do, get student visas and study at U.S. colleges and universities. I've personally taught several over the years. All were Iranian citizens who came here on student visas, all were pursuing various computer engineering degrees, and all of the ones I spoke with about it were planning on returning to Iran when their studies were finished.
The ayatollas clamped down hard on foreign educational options for Iranians after they came to power in the 1970's, but those restrictions have been greatly relaxed over the past couple decades, and untold thousands of Iranian students have studied abroad and then taken their skills back home. I don't know how many exactly, but I do know that Cal (my alma mater) has a student group just for current Iranian students and alumni with more than 4,000 members. And that's just one university.
Iran took a serious hit to its technical know-how when many of its engineers and intellectuals fled after the revolution. It's taken some time, but they realized the danger of that move, and the Iranian government now actively promotes the idea of studying abroad to its own citizens. It's not simply trying to rebuild its technological capabilities, but has been actively doing so since the mid-90's.
I'd be shocked if they didn't have people capable of reverse engineering every component on that aircraft.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)I based my assessment it on an examination of what is publicly known about the military equipment that they have built themselves and the foreign made designs they originated from.
Xithras
(16,191 posts)But they have been sinking a considerable amount of R&D time into missile systems, including a recently demonstrated ballistic anti-ship guided missile that is capable of sinking a carrier with a single shot. They have demonstrated multiple cruise and guided drone and missile systems in recent years that showcase at least some skill in that arena. I have no doubt that they're looking at the U.S. drone as an incredible windfall, and have no real doubt that they have plenty of engineers who can properly reverse engineer the entire thing.
Keep in mind that Iran only started its attempt to modernize its engineering force in the mid 90's, and that most Iranian engineering students have come here even more recently than that. A student achieving a western masters degree in any of the modern engineering fields would have been in the Iranian workplace for less than 10 years (some much less), and wouldn't be "running things" yet. The skills are there, but they're mostly in junior positions. I expect that, over the next 10-20 years, the current crop of US and European trained engineers will eventually start leading these projects, and we'll see far more modern equipment. They certainly have the will to build it, and they're rapidly modernizing their technological skillset.
Robb
(39,665 posts)
There are a few pretty good analyses out there (and a few kind of funny ones) that outline several problems with the photographs and video Iran has put forward of the UAV they claim to have brought down electronically.
Iran's track record on actually having shot down what they've said they did speaks for itself. Our own government (and President) are being more than a little vague -- yes, we lost a UAV. No, we won't confirm the one on Iran TV is the one we lost. Yes, we've asked Iran to let us have it back if it's ours. And so on. There's a sense, at least to me, that we're not in on the joke.
The RQ-170 was Lockheed's big return to the UAV market. It's a fairly secret aircraft, in that there are only a handful of bad photos in the public sphere of it. I find it revealing (!) that the UAV Iran is showing us is being shown in no new ways, at no new angles -- in other words, we're not seeing a detail of the exhaust, which would be a first (and something I'd LOVE to get a look at), or a close-up of the landing gear, or any indication of sensor placement.
This is all stuff that a haphazard filming -- which is what we're kind of led to believe this was -- would probably show us. But no dice. Instead we've got this weird table-skirt banner stuff, and a brief walk from the magician's distance around the front of the thing.
Another matter that no one's latched onto yet: part numbers. A typical Lockheed UAV system will have more than 1,000 parts, each with its own number; 90% of those parts will have the number printed or stamped on them. A single part number would go a long way.
Finally, as I was using Google's image search to find more pictures of the thing Iran's showing us, I stumbled across this:
It's probably pure coincidence that Iranian students built this last year, and that it looks so similar in construction materials. It's a small drone called the Shir Dal.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)If there are only a few fuzzy pictures available, then the probability that the Iranians correctly modeled the intake grill is pretty low.
The number of rows and columns of the intake grill is pretty large, and there are a different number of columns in the upper half than the lower half.
Getting this right would either indicate that Iran had closeup photos or observations of the actual drone, or that they really do have an actual drone.
Robb
(39,665 posts)On one hand, another Lockheed solution to a stealth issue; on the other, a 35 year-old slide-rule-designed solution.
Those grills did horrible things to available thrust from an otherwise perfectly good engine -- and when weight is an issue, as on a small UAV, I can't imagine you'd not come up with a better idea. Heck, Northrop went a different way with the B2.
But you're right, it's distinctive enough that if it's correct, it's probably a good indication.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)it's nothing I can quite put my finger on, but the proportions seem off. It seems smaller then the very few known photographs, the color is almost a cream white instead of the flat haze gray, or flat tan one that the military normally uses, although I acknowledge that could be the lighting. The general appearance seems almost like it is a cheap copy instead of the more finished or smooth or "polished" look one would expect from Lockheed.
And why aren't they showing the rest of it?
Shoe Horn
(302 posts)
Adsos Letter
(19,459 posts)I tried looking it up (cursorily, I admit) but...I got nothin'. 
Frank Cannon
(7,570 posts)that he's showing you everything--the inside of the cage, both sides of the curtain, the disassembled box, etc. But he keeps you at a safe distance away from any true inspection. You only see what the magician wants you to see.
Adsos Letter
(19,459 posts)
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)hiding the underside - that's just too goofy! There's GOTTA be more than meets the eye.
Mosaic
(1,451 posts)Stop developing weapons!
Snarkoleptic
(6,223 posts)Yep, and I'm going to borrow my brother-in-laws Rolex, reverse engineer an exact copy and return the original (or mebbe the copy).
lolz
mbperrin
(7,672 posts)we shouldn't worry about them developing a nuclear capability.
1. They can't do it, cause they're primitive and stupid.
2. If they do it, they can only do part of it, and it won't work.
3. They'll just hurt themselves with it.
So I suggest that we FedEx them a few of our most advanced nuclear bombs and missiles - mission accomplished - we win the war before it even starts! Yay!
One thing I do know - if I lived on this earth with the US as a country, I'd get all the weapons I could to defend myself - that's the only way to prevent the warmongers here from enriching themselves at your expense.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)My best guess, based on what Iran has trumpted as "new" miltary equipment, is that Iran's miltary technology base is about 1965 level +/- 5 years. Nuclear weapons technology is 50's tech.
I don't doubt that they have the ability to make a nuclear weapon, the only question is the time frame.
fujiyama
(15,185 posts)Just that their educational and military R&D infrastructure lags far behind that of the US, especially when it comes to the advanced electronics in some of the modern drones. Even if they take it apart completely and understand the full functionality, I don't see how they'll be able to fabricate and/or source the sensors needed. The Chinese on the other hand...
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)Frank Cannon
(7,570 posts)within just a few months after taking office?
I doubt that there's much that the Chinese don't already know about our military technology.
fujiyama
(15,185 posts)whether it's the spy plane over ten years ago or the the stealth chopper that went down in Pakistan during the Osama raid. The drone could be potentially useful, since it's an area the US still maintains a near total dominance, though there was an article in the NYT a few months ago showing other countries rushing to build them too (and the Chinese seem particularly interested).
They're also relatively inexpensive, and if there's anything the Chinese are good at, it's reproducing similar functioning stuff (usually at questionable quality) for a fraction of the cost. And they also have the manufacturing capability and infrastructure, which Iran lacks due to little foreign investment and various sanctions...
Shoe Horn
(302 posts)Or maybe it did?
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Who knows.
Azathoth
(4,677 posts) 
Shoe Horn
(302 posts)Unfortunately, it makes too much sense for our military to have implemented it.
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truthisfreedom
(23,523 posts)reasonable.
IF Iran was able to bring it down electronically as they say, maybe they stopped it from performing any functions at all. What if they used a crude EMP device made from a microwave oven and a high-voltage capacitor stack?
Shoe Horn
(302 posts)China would never invade the US, and vice versa, but we can fight and throw our toys at each other in the TAZ of someone else's country. I guess. Anyways, Iran is getting tons of money from our historic enemies and probably can afford something more than an old microwave to bring down our 4 million dollar bullshit gizmos (while people die in the streets)...but what do I know? It's all abstractions and speculation from my puny perspective.
Xithras
(16,191 posts)Some flight control firmware may be compromised, but it's pretty unlikely that any data of real consequence will be recoverable by the Iranians. Assuming that images are even stored onboard and are not immediately broadcast back to their base, any "stored" data would merely contain photos or videos of their own facilities. Given its route and location, I'm sure the Iranians already know what it was looking at.
The most sensitive bits of software are probably the flight control routines that keep the flying wing stable, and the software that controls its communication. The former is largely moot as many of the same routines can be found on the Internet (RC hobbyists are now building their own flying wings), and the latter probably stopped being an issue within a day of the crash. I'm sure the military changed any frequencies or authentication codes that were being used on this craft and shared with any other vehicles or systems.
The largest intelligence loss is related to the hardware, not the software. This loss provides the Iranians with the capability to reverse engineer their own versions.
Robb
(39,665 posts)The R&D predecessor to this UAV, a Lockheed test platform of sorts called the Polecat, exploded in the air above the test range after a malfunction cause the self-destruct system to engage. So we have some reason to believe such a system exists on current models.
mbperrin
(7,672 posts)Ever?
41mag
(31 posts)the Iranians have perfected styrofoam modeling.
CJvR
(1,427 posts)...they still haven't managed to reverse engineer the Manhattan project, and that was 70 year old technology. So they should be done around 2080 with the drone.