German Muslims Condemn Cologne Attacks, Fear Consequences

[philosslayer]

Source: NY Times

COLOGNE, Germany — Members of Cologne's large Muslim community have joined the chorus condemning a string of assaults on women on New Year's Eve that have shocked Germany. But some are also voicing concern that pointing the finger of blame at Muslims in general — and North African immigrants in particular — is unfair when most migrants are law-abiding and the full facts of what happened on the night remain unclear.

In Ehrenfeld, a multi-ethnic neighborhood where streets are lined with colorful Turkish grocery stores and halal butchers, few can believe that those who allegedly carried out the assaults amid the crowds ringing in the New Year may share their religion.

"It's really sad what happened," said one woman wearing a Muslim headscarf, who only gave her last name, Ozap. She rejected the suggestion by some German politicians that the Muslim attitudes toward women might have played a role in the attacks. "Everywhere it says that this has something to do with Muslims. What I read and learned in the Quran is completely different.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/01/07/world/europe/ap-eu-germany-sexual-assaults.html?_r=0

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A proper response. Shame on those (including many on this board) who are offering blanket condemnations of Islam. Regardless of the background of the alleged perpetrators, their behavior has nothing to do with Islam.

[Odin2005]

1. I've been gone from DU for a while and it is shocking how Islamophobic it has become.

It's almost as bad as Reddit, a site whose main sub-forums are increasingly dominated by Neo-Fascists from 4chan's /pol/ board.

[philosslayer]

3. I've noticed the same thing

Its been a slow, creeping thing. Posts that were unthinkable only a few years ago are now widely praised. Its quite sad actually.

[cpwm17]

4. I hope you stick around.

I have always liked your posts.

[Odin2005]

23. Thanks!

[theboss]

10. We need to get back to our roots: Christian bashing

What's wrong with this place?

[branford]

19. Heh. :) nt

[Nye Bevan]

20. Any bakers refused to bake cakes for gay weddings recently?

That's always good for a 100+ post thread of utter outrage and unequivocal condemnation.

[mwrguy]

21. It's pretty scary

[Nuclear Unicorn]

2. Rape culture is to be confronted wherever it presents its ugliness.

If you find that to be politically inconvenient that is your problem, not mine.

[FLPanhandle]

5. +1

I'm tired of some "so called" liberals defending rape cultures so they appear tolerant.

[RelativelyJones]

9. 100%

Rape culture is rape culture and it has to be confronted whatever its origin.

[LeftishBrit]

17. I agree

Rape is, needless to say, not acceptable whoever does it.

And implying that people from certain cultures should be excused as they somehow can't really help being rapists, is just the other side of the same coin as saying that people from certain cultures or ethnicities are intrinsically bad people who are bound to be rapists. Just slightly different forms of the same bigotry.

[RelativelyJones]

7. +1

[leftynyc]

8. +1000

The OP poster has been doing nothing but since this story came out. According to that poster, it's the victims that need to be educated, not the animals who think rape is okay.

[philosslayer]

12. I have done no such thing

Please point out where I have ever blamed the victims of these assaults. I'll save you some trouble if you want to go searching, because you won't find anything.

[Coventina]

11. Let me add to the chorus of agreement.

Misogyny is never OK.

And it should be noted that the OP stated in another thread that the perps be excused for coming from a rape-culture and not knowing such behavior was unacceptable in Germany!


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1304209

on edit: added link to post referenced

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

13. My thoughts exactly...

... New Years Eve and a bunch of built up hormones amidst the frustrations already confronted.

[CharlotteVale]

18. [phone]

[smirkymonkey]

22. +1000

[The2ndWheel]

6. As with everything, condemnations matter only if you agree with it beforehand

If Republicans, or Christians, or men, just "condemn" something that a Republican, a Christian, or a man does, is that ever enough? Words are words. That's why there's a saying about actions and loudness and all that.

One condemnation you agree with(by the German Muslims), and the other condemnation you don't agree with(those blanketing Islam). Life is subjective. There are some Muslims that condemn the West. This group condemns that one. That groups condemns this one. It's all ridiculous.

Then you throw shame into it too. I thought shaming was wrong? But again, right and wrong are subjective. Shaming is great if you agree with what's being shamed, horrible if you don't. Thus the human condition.

[MariaThinks]

14. i disagree that ths is a proper response. Like guns don't kill people, people kill people.

[MellowDem]

15. Nothing to do with Islam?

I'm pretty sure that the rampant misogyny in the beliefs and texts of Islam have at least some role to play in some Muslim's views of women.

Of course moderate Muslims are worried about backlash, but when you identify with a hateful, bigoted belief system, there will always be backlash. The privilege of identifying with terrible belief systems while stating you, personally, disavow all the terrible things in said belief system needs to come to an end, and in many places, people who no longer believe said terrible belief systems are refusing to identify with them any longer.

Islam is a terrible belief system, like Christianity and Judaism, but many people that identify with them never have to answer for the terrible ideas they promote because of religious privilege.

[Herman4747]

16. Nothing to do with Islam?

Let us examine the attitude of Islam's founder and prophet, Muhammad: From Sahih Muslim, Vol. 2, #3371"
"We [Muhammad’s merry men] went out with Allah's messenger on the expedition to the Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing azl" (withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid conception). But we said: "We are doing an act whereas Allah's messenger [i.e., Muhammad] is amongst us; why not ask him?" So we asked Allah's messenger and he said: "It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born".
Tellingly, the role model of the Muslims, Muhammad, does not exclaim:
“DO NOT FORNICATE WITH THE CAPTIVES!”
Nor does he exclaim to the married men: “DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY WITH THE CAPTIVES!!”
Finally, we note that he does not yell: “DO NOT RAPE THE CAPTIVES!!!”
So the question we have is simply “Why did Muhammad not instead say, “Leave the poor captives alone!”?