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[XemaSab]

This message was self-deleted by its author (XemaSab) on Thu Feb 25, 2016, 09:18 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[geek tragedy]

1. Hopefully these vile predators will be tried as adults

and locked up for a very, very, very long time.

[rollin74]

6. ^^^This^^^

[840high]

7. I hope so.

[mahannah]

2. Castration. And I’m not talking chemical.

[Lucky Luciano]

9. Hammer? nt

[7962]

11. I dont really care the method. A message would be sent.

One that WOULD make an impact

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

81. JackHammer!

[philosslayer]

38. Oh by all means

Maybe even drawing and quartering them. Or the rack? Do we still have one of those laying around?

How about another idea. How about a trial to see if they are actually guilty of the crime they have been charged of? Think we should have one of those first?

Wow, the rush to judge around here sometimes is breathtaking.

[MrChuck]

43. You know something?

They have them on surveillance video and their own parents turned them in, not to mention the victim and her eyewitness father.
Yeah, they'll get a trial. That's due process.
It's not overzealous to decisively judge criminals of their crimes when they're obviously guilty. In these cases we aren't even discussing actual penalties for actual crimes as if Castration of 15 year olds is really an option.
Thanks for adding your voice but I think it's a bit shrill in this case.

[philosslayer]

49. "Yeah, they'll get a trial"

Hope it doesn't delay the hanging.

We have due process in this country for a reason. Maybe the parents turned them in because warrants were executed. And wanted to protect these children from cops breaking down their doors and dragging them out. We all know how THAT might have gone. Just because a warrant has been executed doesn't make someone guilty.

And does the surveillance camera show the actual crime? Or just them hanging around the general area? You believe what the police say without actually seeing it for yourself ? Hahahaha. Funny.

Remember the so called Central Park wilding case many years ago? Exact same sentiment as I'm reading on this board, yet those young men turned out to be not guilty. So lay down your pitchfork for a bit.

[MrChuck]

54. Touchė eom

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

82. "Hope it doesn't delay the hanging."

Oh no!

[philosslayer]

95. You know something?

They won't even get a trial. It never happened. Charges dropped. I'll graciously accept your apology.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/25/nyregion/move-to-dismiss-brownsville-rape-case-charges.html?_r=0

[Ace Rothstein]

96. Ugh. I think that story just got even worse.

[MrChuck]

97. You'll rot first

Savour your ridiculous notion of vindication but don't choke on it.

[philosslayer]

103. You were wrong

Yes, I was shrill. Because it was a rush to judgement.

[MrChuck]

108. I was inaccurate based on the reporting.

Last edited Thu Feb 25, 2016, 07:06 PM - Edit history (1)

It seems like, rather than the plain old egregious sex crime we're looking at, an even more difficult to understand scenario where a young woman has been robbed of even her ability to distinguish her attackers from her protectors.
And you think "I" was wrong.
I'm finished discussing it, not because I'm afraid to defend MY position but because I'm too old to entertain anyone defending any aspect of this despicable behavior. Sex is sex and love is love but I'm not sure what any of this is besides being very very sad and troubling. If it's your assertion that these youths have been vindicated on some level then it'sYOU that has to live with your sense of what is criminal. So they didn't rape this young lady because she says they didn't AFTER she says they did and after her father was engaging in lewd behavior with her in public.
Yeah, there's not much there to stand upon to make the argument you want to make. It's, perhaps, less immediately violent but no less damaging and sad.
Fuck it. That's a lose/lose. For you and I as well.
Actually, I AM sorry. Not to you but to myself for thinking about this for so long and commenting in the first place.
People are bloody ignorant and savage.
Eom.

[muriel_volestrangler]

110. No, you were inaccurate because you said they were 'obviously guilty'

That was your judgement. You were wrong. And insulting, when you said someone who wanted the facts at a trial was 'shrill'.

" So they didn't rape this young lady because she says they didn't" - well, yes, that is reality. If a woman says she wasn't raped, because she consented, then she wasn't raped. That's in the whole idea of consent, and the definition of rape.

[MrChuck]

116. Clearly there is much more to this case than was originally reported

and there is no reason to think that upon a second glance that everything has been revealed.
At the very least we are being told that this young lady has been involved in an incestuous relationship followed by a group experience in a public place. I would not be comfortable calling any of this innocent or providing my stamp of approval on the healthy mental state of any individual involved in the incident.
You may see your way clear to exonerate any or all of them and that is perfectly within you right. I am also within my right to have and offer an opinion to the contrary either as a whole or in part.
Sleep well in this world where a young woman can be subjected to the normalization of sexual assault to the point of embrace. If it is indeed her wish to be intimate with her father and numerous strangers then so be it. I don't find it prudent to dismiss stories like this one without making an effort to ensure her health. That's not my profession but it takes very little effort on my part to have a conversation like this one that raises a bit of consciousness at least among the people taking part here.

[trillion]

113. I would not defend any aspect of this behavior.

Nor have I said anything to condone it. I would not condone it. I am a woman and a feminist.

Oh, excuse me. I thought this was from my reply on using the word "thug."

That said, I agree with what you are saying about this. I too will not condone it in anyway.

[MillennialDem]

48. This won't do what you think it does.

[Liberal_in_LA]

100. I am glad we let justice take its course

[Warpy]

101. Right, got the meat cleaver all honed and ready.

While that won't stop them being violent, it will take away their favorite weapon.

ETA: oh well, never mind, looks like her own daddy might have been the perp. Still, it would be nice to know just what the hell was going on there that night.

[CBGLuthier]

102. Do you support cutting off the hands of thieves?

I prefer living in a civilized country where we don't let our disgust at certain crimes cause us to do horrific things that make us no better than those we maim.

And yes, I think these three are assholes and need to be punished to the extent of the law. But all these calls for castration are getting a bit old.

BTW, what happens if they get castrated and then, has happened in the past, they are found to not be the actual rapists.

I guess you would give them a big ole "oops."

[Archae]

3. The excuses will be incoming in 3-2-1...

"They're just children!"

No.

They're thugs, and I don't give a shit if they are Asian, black, Hispanic, whatever.

They are thugs.

[pocoloco]

4. "children"?

How did they pass a background check??

....just checking.

[840high]

8. lol good one

[Lucky Luciano]

10. They fit the definition of thugs if I ever saw one. nt

[Abouttime]

13. Thugs?

That's a loaded rascist connotation.

[christx30]

15. Anyone that would do this,

white, black, hispanic, purple, ect is a thug. Not racist.

[Nye Bevan]

17. George Zimmerman is a thug.

Can we reclaim the word with its true meaning?

[Igel]

73. For a lot of people, that's been its meaning right along.

For others, the meaning's drifted. Not because it's only used for blacks or minorities, but because that's what's most salient and therefore generalized.

This is called abduction or abductive logic.

Abduction =/= valid logic. Good for making hypotheses, but that's only how far many get. Any hypothesis that fits the facts it's based on must invariably be true, esp. if it validates previously held beliefs. (Consider this the "unscientific method".)

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

83. In my day "thugs" were primarily Italian Mafioso.

A thug is a thug, with no consideration of race, religion, gender, love interests, or economic strata.

[The Green Manalishi]

86. Enough of claiming the word has a racist connotation

Yes, racists use it to refer to African American males.

Big. Fucking. Deal. It comes from 'the Thugee cult in India, and has been in use in English for a LONG time, referring to people of all sorts of appearance.

damned if those assholes should have one whit of influence on how any of us use any word.

If describing a rapist as a thug bothers someone, I could not only not care less but consider that person to be an overwrought jerk of the sort that lets the right mock us.

[CTyankee]

115. me, too.

I think of the final scene in TheGodfather where Michael Corleone's thugs wiped out his opposition one by one. The violence in that movie was shocking.

[trillion]

26. Agreed. Had they been white, I doubt that word would have been used.

[Lucky Luciano]

31. You don't think that thug would be used to describe white gang rapists?! nt

[trillion]

68. I think it's used rarely to describe whites in mafia like situations.

And, get the memo, it's most usually used to describe black youth and also blacks wearing hoodies.

It has been recognized as a racial slur for a few years now. People can use it with the n word if they like and they can throw on their indian symbol of the Washington(DC) Redskins shirt. I will avoid it.

[Lucky Luciano]

70. In most cases I agree with you.

As of right now, "thugs" is about the most polite word I can come up with for a group of boys/men gang raping a woman/girl at gunpoint while walking in the park with her father.

[trillion]

71. How about the word "rapists". Rarely would someone use the word "thug" if it were a white guy raping

someone.

[christx30]

76. And Lord knows we wouldn't want to insult

a bunch of rapists by calling them the wrong word.

[trillion]

88. I see you've utterly missed the point.

[christx30]

93. I think you have.

These are thugs. You can do a google image search under "white thug" and "Hispanic thug" and pull up the same kind of crappy person, just with a different skin tone.
If these kids object to being called a thug, then they shouldn't act like thugs.
I hope they are in prison until they're in their 40's.

[trillion]

105. I don't doubt that we as whites would call them that, however

I respect the black movement that asks for that word not to be used anymore since it's used against black youth so frequently.

So we will agree to disagree.

There's a liberal news site called democracynow.org. Perhaps if you ever visit it you will see black leaders discouraging the word and understand. Now I'm out of this argument. This is just another example of insulation to progressive liberal causes that I've seen here.

[christx30]

107. I'd rather the black leaders do more

to stop gang rapes of innocent women in cities than become language police. If you dress and act like a thug, then you are one. Especially if you add that criminal aspect from that culture.

[trillion]

111. Okay, as I've said all black men are being called thugs, which is the black leaders legitimate gripe

It's become a racial slur.

That said, I think I've been clear all along. And I think you could look it up yourself.

Anyone who's watched even a few Democracy Now shows would already know this. The liberal media is worth watching if you're a Dem.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

84. They are obviously troubled youth that hasn't had good parenting. I blame the parents!

[Dorian Gray]

91. If there is a gang of white boys

raping girls, I'd call them thugs and rapists. The college frat boys who drug and rape girls? Rapey McGee Thugs. Scum.

Same as these boys.

And there are all sorts of stories coming out now... but that doesn't diminish their behavior. Coerced sexual assault. Rape. Disgusting. This makes me so angry, and I feel so sorry for the 18 year old woman who was attacked.

[RobinA]

104. Oh, Bull

Thug has been around since long before any black male wore a hoodie. It means brutish bad guys. If the shoe fits...

[trillion]

106. Nobody is saying it hasn't. I just pointed out it is a very real racially insensitive to use the

word at all in 2016. But you guys here have shown that doesn't matter. By all means do as you wish.

I will respect the black leaders who ask that it no longer be used because it's too often used to profile black youth.

[MrChuck]

47. What color are they? Haven't seen anything about the color off these obvious

Thugs.

[trillion]

67. They were shown to be black from the original news cast which showed the video of the suspects

before they were arrested and at the minute it was reported.

[MrChuck]

80. That's news to me.

Here's my point.
We're going to lose another word to hateful usage. Not that "thug" is such a pleasant word to begin with but we don't need another synonym for the word that none of us wants to type or say.
Stop using it that way and pointing out those who still use it correctly.
Thugs engage in thuggery. It has nothing to do with skin color.

[trillion]

89. I don't know where you've been but you lost thug a few years ago. So many black leaders have stood

up and asked that it not be used anymore because it's being used as a blanket statement for black males.
Guess I'm the only one here who watches Democracy now and gets to see people like Jesse Jackson and many others speak.
I guess I'm also guilty of having hung on liberal sites up to now. Not sure if I belong here - especially with the anti-islamic posts and anti-immigrant posts I've seen. Why should I be surprised that you guys want to call blacks that. I guess I shouldn't be.

[MrChuck]

90. Do me a favor

And don't lump me in with whomever you have in mind when you say "you guys."
Also, do yourself a favor and rescue yourself from the idea that you're better than everyone else.
You know, the conservative movement can't stop patting each other on the back but the Liberals on this forum continually eat their own.
Wtf is wrong with us?
I don't want to call anyone ANY names based on their color and I'm not responsible for redefining a perfectly usable term to mean something hateful.
It's despicable that I could use that term to describe criminals and, based on that, be asked if I meant to sound like a racist.
I guess I'll have to give it up now but I think that the people who surrendered that word over to racist connotation have failed and done us all a disservice.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

85. Chartreuse with fuchsia stripes.

Space Aliens!!

[Kalidurga]

30. I think most people thought they were thugs even before anything was known about them

other than they were males. Knowing their race changes nothing.

[BeyondGeography]

36. I know someone who is very knowledgeable about language and uses it

http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2015/04/29/obama-white-house-baltimore-stephanie-rawlings-blake/26585143/

[MrChuck]

45. Congratulations

With that statement you have officially become part of the problem instead off part of the solution. Enjoy your new status.

[tabasco]

72. No, it's not. n/t

[get the red out]

77. Always excuses

For damned rapist, psychopathic monsters. ALWAYS.

[mahina]

5. Thank you

Good to know.


Reptiles.

[christx30]

12. And unlike the ones in Germany,

Last edited Mon Jan 11, 2016, 12:16 AM - Edit history (1)

they weren't detained and released.

ETA: Two of them were turned in by their parents? That's awesome parenting. Not sarcasm. You find out your kid does something so horrible, you force them to live up to it.

[Yupster]

24. Just imagine being a parent

and finding out your 14 year old has been involved with a gang rape at gunpoint. You;d want to just go to bed and cry for a week.

[trillion]

27. got to give their parents credit for turning them in. Yep, it would be terrible to find out as a

parent.

[get the red out]

79. Agree

I am glad they did so, difficult as it surely was.

[uppityperson]

14. glad they got caught so quickly. I hope it helps the victims heal, knowing they were caught,

prosecuted and hopefully sentenced for a long time.

[onehandle]

16. Second Amendment side effect. nt

[christx30]

19. There are already laws against

people like this having guns. You have to be rich and connected to get a gun permit in New York. Criminals can get pretty much anything they want. So any additional gun laws wouldn't affect anything like this.

[leftynyc]

41. Bullshit

It's not hard to get a handgun in NY. Paperwork, a background check and a short waiting period. No need to be rich or connected at all. Why on earth would you make such a claim?

[christx30]

44. You think a 14 or 15 year old kid would be able to get one? n/t

[leftynyc]

55. A handgun or a shotgun?

A shotgun you don't even need a license for. And the laws are much different in NYC than just in the state in general. So be careful when you make sweeping statements like you tried up above. Chances are you'll be wrong.

[Reter]

56. A 6 month waiting period is not short

This is NYC we're talking about. You also have to put down about $390 for the application, which is unConstitutional and equivalent to a poll tax.

[leftynyc]

57. The poster did not indicate

they were talking about NYC - just New York. I live just outside the city and didn't have a hard time at all.

[Reter]

58. Gotcha, just I figured he was talking about NYC because the attack happened in Brooklyn

n/t

[branford]

20. Are you actually claiming the five men wouldn't or couldn't of raped this woman

but for the fact one of them was allegedly armed (and almost certainly illegally, particularly given their apparent ages)? Even the ultra-anti-gun Democratic leadership here in the City hasn't raised the issue of guns in response to the rape.



Do you ever wonder why gun control is a dead letter in Congress, electoral loser for Democrats, and virtually all gun rights supporters don't believe gun control advocates are willing to discuss anything in good faith?

[trillion]

28. Yep, guns in the hands of criminals all over. Most because the gunowners don't lock them up and lose

them in burglaries. Komo4news in Seattle had a newcast donated to this and an article on it that I'm sure people can google.

[branford]

29. Sometimes guns are stolen from cops in cities with strong gun control laws

and used by terrorists to shoot police officers.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/09/gunman-shoots-philadelphia-police-officer-in-the-name-of-islam.html

[JonathanRackham]

32. Huh?

If anything the victim would have been better off with opposing force. It should have been her choice.

If anything she is a victim of NYC gun laws that protect the elite like billionaire Bloomberg and deny her.
.

[Skittles]

33. a victim of guns is what she was

[branford]

35. One young woman against five young men, one of them armed.

I don't see how the woman would have been much worse off with a legal firearm, unless you are suggesting should could have adequately defended herself or escaped, whether the men had a gun or not. Considering she was raped, the answer is obvious.

This other poster's complaint also wasn't generally about guns or carrying in NYC, but rather that only the rich or celebrities are afforded the opportunity. It's one thing to oppose guns, and it's quite another to approve of a system that effectively discriminates against the poor who are largely minorities.

[JonathanRackham]

37. NYC is the Utopia of gun laws.

This is the model gun law system the anti-firearm lobby aspires too. Unless of course you're one of the 1% special class better than all the other. She was a victim of bad gun laws and the elite special 1% like Bloomberg who live by two sets of laws.

[catbyte]

40. WTF?

What are you trying to say?

[JonathanRackham]

42. The victim was in complete compliance with NYC draconian gun laws.

The criminal youth were not, didn't give a damn, and didn't care. The victim's right to defend herself are non-existent in NYC. There's a difference between "compromising" on firearms rights and outright denying them.

FWIW my sister but a Beretta in her attacker's face and stopped his ass cold, held him until the cops came. She's a single mom and there's no issues with gun safety in the apartment and her kids. The kids grew up just fine and have moved out, zero accidents or incidents. The bad news is the asswipe has done his time and is out of jail, I bet fully reformed too.

Every time I hear about a crime in one of these high gun law cities/states it makes me think about where we're headed. What makes me more scared is the high number of police shootings in these same cities.

.........and yet the victims of crimes have no guarantee of safety by the police.

So whiskey tango foxtrot.

[catbyte]

46. So are you saying that everybody should be armed?

[JonathanRackham]

51. No.

It should be a painful personal choice.

[catbyte]

60. So why did you bring it up? I swear, some people will not be satisfied until every place in America

looks like Dodge City. I'm not directing that comment at you personally. I don't want to live my life that way. My dad was a police officer for 30 years. He taught me to shoot when I was 7 years old, so I am more than competent with a gun. He said that even people who are experienced with guns have a better chance of being shot with their own gun after having it taken away from them by a bad guy than they have in getting that bad guy. The criminal is ready for a confrontation, you aren't. It's shallow, magical thinking to think that packing a gun will save you.

[Skittles]

87. they're gun humpers

they think guns solve everything

[LanternWaste]

74. You appear to be projecting your own painful, personal choice onto the victim

You appear to be projecting your own painful, personal choice onto the victim, regardless of what you may or may not know in regards to her.

[JonathanRackham]

78. A double projection.

Only the victims should be able to speak for themselves.

[MillennialDem]

50. And yet, gun crimes are higher in more permissive states/countries. No one is saying

gun laws will stop all gun crimes (or crimes in general), but they make crimes less frequent and less violent. The sad thing is as Obama was saying gun crimes at the state and local level don't help as much as nationwide laws, because it's easy to buy guns in a more permissive state and then sell them without background checks in a less permissive area.

Sure, there's a harsh reality here. If we had strict(er) nationwide gun laws, there will be some people raped, robbed, maimed, or killed that wouldn't have been if there were loose(r) nationwide gun laws.

But - there will OVERALL be less people raped, robbed, maimed, or killed if there are strict(er) nationwide gun laws.

[JonathanRackham]

52. How come Chicago violence is so high?

[MillennialDem]

59. The homicide rate of Chicago is 15.1 per 100,000. In many other cities it's higher

Detroit (49.5), New Orleans (39.6), Baltimore (33.9), and many others. Chicago isn't even in the top 30. Milwaukee is higher. Kansas City is higher. Atlanta is higher. Houston is almost the same.

Notice how many or most of those states are in permissive gun law places?

[JonathanRackham]

63. Are all those homicides by gun?

How about the non lethal crimes by illegal gun in Chicago vs other cities. Chicago has lots of shootings, many non lethal.

[MillennialDem]

69. No, those are homicides period.

[rockfordfile]

66. Because it's a gun culture in a lot of places not just Chicago

The gun culture supported by the republican party and the nra.

[rockfordfile]

65. Wow you got that from way out in the far right field

[rockfordfile]

64. This person is ridiculous

[rockfordfile]

62. The thugs used a gun

She was not a victim of NYC gun laws. That sounds like something from the nra idiots.

[tblue37]

18. The article says four are in custody now. Might be an update.

Four teenagers suspected of taking turns raping an 18-year-old woman at gunpoint at a Brooklyn playground after ordering her father to leave her side were taken into custody on Sunday, the police said.

[gwheezie]

21. The surveillance video is not of the attack?

Am I the only person waiting for more conclusive evidence?

[christx30]

22. I'm willing to believe the woman

and her father.
I'm sure the cops were able to pull a ton of evidence from her and the crime scene. These little pieces of crap are going to be convicted and spend a lot of time in jail. Wish they could be there for 25 years. But they are going to pull something. Be out when they are 19 or something. Free to rape again. Or kill next time.

[gwheezie]

53. I'm just thinking about the central park 5

The article doesn't say what other evidence they have that lead them to believe all these guys are the ones that did it.

[gwheezie]

94. Update on this story

4 of the 5 were released because neither she or her father could identify them in a line up. 2 of the accused claim her father was having sex with her in the park and there is cell phone video of her that indicates she was at some point consenting. None of this means she wasn't raped or that these 5 aren't the rapists. The DNA evidence is pending.

[Yupster]

25. Probably have to wait for the trial

to hear all the evidence.

[catbyte]

39. I can't imagine being a parent & realizing you had raised a monster. Good for the parents for

turning them in, unlike Affluenza Mom. It must've been wrenching for them, but they did the right thing.

[Liberal_in_LA]

99. The father was the monster

[rockfordfile]

61. Good to see some of them caught

A gun culture.

[Sunlei]

75. NY has thousands of police cams 24/7. Why was this park a 'known dark & dangerous' space forever?

[bigwillq]

92. Try them as adults and lock them up for life (nt)

[Liberal_in_LA]

98. ooops!

[GOLGO 13]

109. What insanity..

What insanity

[GliderGuider]

112. When we wait for a while, things clarify...

There was no rape.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027637215

[NobodyHere]

114. The woman and her father need to go to jail.

There is no excuse for accusing someone of a rape that didn't happen.