Gov. Snyder lied: Flint water switch was not about money, records show

[Fast Walker 52]

Source: motor city muckraker

The Flint water crisis that led to thousands of people being poisoned began because state officials maintained it would save the cash-strapped city money by disconnecting from the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department (DWSD) and using a different source.

But it turns out, DWSD offered the state-controlled city a deal that would have saved Flint more money by staying with Detroit.

An e-mail obtained by Motor City Muckraker shows the deal would have saved the city $800 million over 30 years, which was 20% more inexpensive than switching to the Karegnondi Water Authority.

(snip)

So what was it about? Some have suggested that Snyder was motivated by a desire to break up DWSD and ultimately privatize it. In the summer of 2015, DWSD was split into two entities: the DWSD and the Great Lakes Water Authority.

Read more: http://motorcitymuckraker.com/2016/01/23/gov-snyder-lied-flint-water-switch-was-not-about-money-records-show/

---

Simply disgusting is all I can say. Democrats have to use this horrible story to take back elected office all over this country.

[Locrian]

1. verrrrry interesting - nt

[annabanana]

2. kicking for the mendacity of it all. . . .n/t

[Thinkingabout]

3. And on saving money, when the problem us corrected we can see

Just how much money was not saved and I am not even talking about the physical and emotional damage, this decision will be costly. This is a law Snyder should rush to repeal the "management" law.

[jalan48]

4. Democrats need to operate more like Republicans.

Blow this issue wide open. Obama should be using the Federal Government to conduct highly publicized investigations. This scandal should be as big or bigger than anything ISIS is doing right now. Keep it on the front page of every newspaper. Arrest some government officials. It's what a Republican administration would do. It would be an issue that they would use to win the next election.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

7. I would phrase it more like this - operate more like an effective & robust opposition party - which

is a GOOD THING. The idea of a two or multi party system is that you get the checks and balances. Otherwise you get single party govt which has NEVER worked well on the face of he planet - eg USSR, North Korea, etc. Corruption is inevitable.... as we are now seeing.

So yah - scream it from the rooftops, get in the face of every repub you can and make them squirm as they try to justify their failed extremist ideology. But no need to resort to any of the lies and distortion of fact the repubs do.

I get your point though! Just taking it and elaborating on it.

[jalan48]

10. Yes. The Republican's are able to take routine things and blow them out of proportion.

FOX News especially, and the rest of the corporate media mold public opinion this way. Flint is a really, really big issue. It's happened because of malfeasance on the part of a Republican governor. Issue an arrest warrant for him. Blow the mother fucking story up so big it can't be ignored by the media. Acting in a "judicious" way only allows it to be buried.

[NJCher]

17. yes, this is bigger than republicans

They didn't invent the wheel.


Cher

[yurbud]

20. they won't. They agree with one GOP principle:

No crime FOR the rich is big enough to prosecute, and no crime AGAINST the rich is small enough to overlook.

You can take that to the bank.

[Fast Walker 52]

25. If the Democrats don't use this issue to win, they are not even trying

[LiberalLovinLug]

99. Well they never do seem that interested in attacks

Even justified attacks. Its all very puzzling. There have been numerous scandals through the decades they have simply allowed Fox News and their peers cover it for 2 seconds and move on. They come off as "above it all", like somehow the American public will admire them more if they just stay silent and don't muck their hands. Hardly shedding the liberal elite stamp.

If I was more conspiratist, I'd think they purposely do not want to let the Repubs sink so deep that it will force them into the majority in all 3 branches and then their darn base will start to demand they act more like traditional Democrats, and less like the Repubs they have been catering together with to Big Business. The DLC needs a strong Repub sounding board in order to pull any new legislation further to the right.

[Fast Walker 52]

100. I agree with everything you wrote!

[Grins]

38. Three words...

Debbie. Wasserman. Schultz.

Never going to happen.

[MaeScott]

44. DWS is already late in this. Too busy.....

.....rigging the primary

[questionseverything]

59. if a dem gov had done this, he would be arrested

but even under a democratic pres repubs literally get away with murder

[trillion]

64. Let us never operate like Republicans. Other than that, I agree with making a big deal about this.

[certainot]

74. republicans have 1200 think tank coordinated radio stations

worth over 4BIL$ in free pro republican advertising every year.

Michigan St. 11, Michigan 7, Western Michigan 1 universities endorse/support 19 limbaugh stations in that state and they will leading the way in excusing and protecting snyder.

imagine if those radio stations were all screaming for snyder's head. if he was a democrat they would be and he would have to resign. instead, as in all other cases like this they will successfully help deflect blame to the EPA and unions, and lower level govt management etc.

if michiganders want to end that shit, protest, petition, and pressure those universities to find apolitical alts for sports and force a debate about the unis supporting snyder, global warming deniers, racists, misogynists, and their support for trump etc..

there are more than 90 unis supporting 260+ limbaugh stations. the rw radio monopoly depends heavily on piggybacking that cred and advertising draw and would probably fall apart if they didn't have it

[ut oh]

110. Not to mention

all of the article (paid?) commentators who are trying to blame Dems for this problem.

[Kalidurga]

76. The only problem with this is...

It is an actual real scandal. Real people have been hurt. Many of them will never recover. Republicans try to only pick issues where there isn't a real issue, someone cries War on Christmas or they got their feelings hurt and they make it a federal case.

[jalan48]

82. An even bigger reason to make it a major issue.

[Kalidurga]

83. I know

sadly we are learning that Democrats aren't always up to the fight for the people. At least Cher has come out and helped. Michael Moore has rightly called for the arrest of the governor, Bernie as well. Clinton sent an aid, I missed what O'Malley said I am sure he has spoken about this as well. But, where is everyone else?

[jalan48]

84. Good question.

40 years ago Democrats would have been all over this. For some reason Obama is timid when it comes to confronting Republicans. He seems to want to "find common ground" which is very strange considering how they have treated him.

[Kalidurga]

85. Well I do think Obama should use his podium for this issue.

But, just as maybe more importantly Michigan Democrats should be raising hell. A whole lotta hell. I lived in Michigan until I was 19 years old and I know that the people in Michigan know how to fight.

[jalan48]

86. I hope they do. Unfortunately, the corporate media can choose not to focus on it unless

it's the President making it an issue. It becomes a widely covered regional issue and not a national one.

[Kalidurga]

88. Yeah well it's not like we can expect MSM to cover anything that would benefit people.

At least Rachel Maddow made this a national issue.

[KingCharlemagne]

115. He cannot even arouse himself to suppress a pissant

insurrection in Oregon. So I think you are expecting a bit much.

[mountain grammy]

5. Since I sent a letter to Snyder expressing my horror about Flint,

I've been receiving regular email updates from the governor's office. All is well, people, the governor is on top of it.. NOT! I answer every email with a question about criminal indictments. I will answer yesterday's with this link.

[Marty McGraw]

41. Awesome of you

for doing that. I hope the future indictments will go all the way up the chain and invade the ranks of ALEC who notoriously came up with all these grand schemes at a local level to twist privatization away from the public domain!

[left on green only]

105. In Your Next Email......

Will you please ask him for me where he got the shower cap that he glues on to the top of his head? Is it possible that he and Trump use the services of the same taxidermist?

[alfredo]

6. The shock doctrine, create a crisis, then impose your own solution.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

8. YESSSSSSSSSSS - thats it in a nushell nm

[glinda]

60. That is what the Conservative Governors surrounding the Great Lakes want. They

want to OWN THEM! They are also angry that Mark Dayton D-MN was elected and fought hard against him. He is the one that has held that possibility are a slower pace.
IT has been out there for a long time that the Corporate Conservatives want to own the waters.
I have absolutely positively no doubt that if they look into pollutions and spills in waterways they will find a similar motive.
It is time to tie it all together and bring charges to many.

[alfredo]

72. Is there a benefit in owning the Mississippi headwaters?

[glinda]

93. Well if you pollute from top to bottom and mine, log, etc.... all along the way.

[alfredo]

95. It seems like it is a responsibility that is thrust on the state.

[Solly Mack]

69. Yep

[Octafish]

9. Bingo!

Piratization.

[navarth]

46. I've been saying it for years, Octafish

The hostile white suburbs are coming for the water.

[Octafish]

52. Abso-pure-lutely, navarth.

Snyder's EM-driven, bankster-benefiting Detroit Bankruptcy would set the table for a complete looting, from the Department of Water and Sewerage to the VanGoghs in the Detroit Institute of Arts.

Remember the power shutdown downtown one busy summer weekday?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023669148

The move was a message from the EM, that he would not tolerate dissent.

I asked some reporter chums at one of the Detroit dailies why they had not covered the story. The reporters said they, too, had heard the reports, but added the EM had told them nothing to worry about. (From the link above: It was just an old cable that blew.)

Another reporter who had followed the real story for local public radio was about to air it when she was shown the door a few days after. Reporters who find evidence for conspiracy that leads to the government have that happen a lot.

[navarth]

56. This reporter...

was she with WDET then?

Perhaps the biggest question, for me, is what the MDP is going to do. IMO they have been feckless even going back to the Granholm administration.

What's going to be the result of all this? These are the things that keep me up at night.

[nashville_brook]

57. jesus f'n christ on captain's wafer -- "she was shown the door a few days after"

[DirkGently]

67. Just when we thought energy scarcity was an ugly fight ...

... here comes the fight to control the WATER.

It's the perfect resource to control. No pesky cheap alternatives to get in the way. Everyone has to buy, if they want to live.

Doesn't seem to be any question but that Republicans seized on Detroit as a perfect disaster capitalism opportunity. Grab local control, sell off any assets at firesale rates; then grab the local population by the throat over the very right to stay alive.

Government, run like a business.

[groundloop]

11. THAT I can certainly believe.... It's every GOPers wet dream to privatize all infrastructure

[abelenkpe]

12. A desire to break them up and privatize them?

Which was actually more expensive and did serious damage to non wealthy communities?

I'd like to see democratic politicians be outraged by this an demand an end to the misleading scam that is privatization. But don't democrats champion charter schools?
They can get angry about poisoning citizens but don't think they'll attack the idea of privatization.

[TBF]

16. "But don't democrats champion charter schools?"

Third-way "democrats" champion charter schools.

The rest of us know that is just another give-away to the corporate world.

[abelenkpe]

55. True

think they'll avoid going so far as to come out against privatization because third way democrats are not against privatization. Wish that all democratic candidates and politicians were against privatization. Was there ever a time when democrats were against privatization?

[TBF]

112. I think there have been times

in which the thievery wasn't quite so blatant. But yes you make a good point.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

18. OK, but they dmn well better support the idea of maintaining public services and infrastructure -

all the things that don't work so well under a for-profit system.

[FailureToCommunicate]

13. The plot thickens.

[flamingdem]

14. Wow he was willing to murder and maim for his ideology

That needs to be yelled from the rooftops. Why is he still in office?

[Proserpina]

33. Michigan hasn't enough Democrats in office to do anything; AG is GOP and wants to succeed Snyder

and as for Obama....our best bet is the FBI, probably. The EPA is also corrupt in Michigan.

[flamingdem]

34. Sounds like corruption of various kinds at work

Let's hope for exposure/s

[glinda]

62. Same reason the Fossil Fuel and Mining Industry do it.

[Demonaut]

15. who writes this shit "20% more inexpensive"? why not "20% less expensive"

[yurbud]

19. privatization rarely has to do with saving money...

it's more about making sure that tax dollars go to a for-profit business that can say thank you with campaign contributions.

The community college where I work fired the unionized cafeteria workers and had no food service for five years even though it had been turning a profit.

Apparently, they couldn't bring in contractors for some number of years because of the union busting angle, but now we just have some food trucks.

[Fast Walker 52]

24. the corrupt madness of conservatism

This bullshit needs to be stopped.

[yurbud]

36. unfortunately, most Dems don't aim their stake at the heart of the beast

and instead try to figure out how to get some of that action for themselves.

[Proserpina]

21. OF COURSE it was about Privatization!

You'd have to be deaf, dumb, blind and stupid to think it wasn't. He wanted to break Detroit into so many pieces it could never be put back together as a functioning political unit. Water was the one asset they had still functioning.

[Fast Walker 52]

22. seems obvious now, but I never really connected it before

Of course, I don't live in Michigan, so maybe more obvious for those who live there.

[Proserpina]

32. I do live in Michigan, you are correct. The news wasn't obvious, but the actions were.

[oldandhappy]

23. power games

[johnfunk]

26. Dems need to ABOLISH privatization at all levels of government

This should be party plank every four years. Let your candidates know.

[lostnfound]

27. If one rich kid was poisoned by lead by a house builder, what would lawsuit net?

Parents would seek compensation for a lifetime of reduced earnings, health problems, etc.
There's no way that these people will be treated fairly. They haven't been, thus far.
My heart goes out to the parents and children of Flint.

[valerief]

28. Hang the bastards that did this. nt

[2naSalit]

29. It is still about the money...

just a different story about it has taken place. This is why his stolen elections are such a damning indication of where the GOP wants to take this country. We see it repeated over and over again. I warned a group of political players about this back in 2006 and they all thought I was crazy but here we are now. Looking around the country at the state level shows how disengaged so many really are. It's come down to the need for cleaning up one's own house... state and local governing bodies, before the big problems will be resolved. Meanwhile, we have some pretty big messes to deal with from election fraud - voting machines and illegal redistricting to dealing with the ignorant including the wannabe militias to the current cast of deviant clowns running for office this year who are backing the insurrectionists.

[yellerpup]

30. Didn't he suspend democracy in order to do this?

Isn't that treason?

[Overseas]

31. K&R. Such cruelty. Poisoning people less important to Gov Snyder than Privatization.

Gov Snyder and his team must resign.

[robbob]

35. I heard a Detroit area reporter on NPR blaming Obama!

(I posted this in another thread, never got an answer):

At first I was like "sheesh, yeah let's blame Obama", but then he went on to say Obama's appointed head of the EPA was made aware of lead in the Flint city drinking water almost a year ago and also did nothing about it.

I'm as skeptical as the next guy when it comes to the "blame Obama" crowd, but if this is true is does raise some questions. Anybody got info on this point?

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

39. michigan radio dot org has tons of info - and yes there was some dragging of feet by EPA but at

the same time do not lose sight of the fact that an earlier EPA report (dated 2011 I believe) specified that anticorrosion agents needed to be used and also other fed water regulations were ignored/overlooked.

Its a both/and - the original situation was unquestionably created by Snyders radical right agenda, AND..... subsequently exacerbated by foot-dragging by EPA. Its not correct though to pin ALL blame on EPA.

[Marty McGraw]

43. Goes along with

the Skeletonization of any departments of the governmental category. Funding and Maintaining. It's been the conservatives favorite thing to do especially when it comes to their favorite punch toy the EPA. They just tried passing another gut punch just the other night.

E V I L - F#$ks

[Proserpina]

61. Ten deaths directly attributed to the water so far

[robbob]

117. Thanks for the info

It was an honest question and your information will help me to answer those who try to deflect all the blame to the Federal agency.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

37. THE OUTRAGE HAS to come from "we the people" - always has been that way, always will. The civil

rights struggles, labor movement, etc. - did those folks sit around complaining to each other "why doesn't the dem party do anything" Well maybe they did, but they did a lot of other stuff too.

CALL/ WRITE OUR REPS AND OUR CANDIDATES!!!!

[rladdi]

40. The Emergency Manager is saying he played no role in the water switch. it was the

mayor and city council who made that decision, Yet neither of them had an power while the EM was in place, nor did the people. It is a complete dictatorship with a emergency manager. Gov. Snyder has used over a dozen of them during his Governorship.

[jimmyzvoice]

42. Republican governor Rick Snyder is solely to blame.

How was Gov. Rick Snyder able to poison the residents of Flint, Mich.? It began when in 2012 the state Legislature passed a new emergency manager law. This law allowed the governor to suspend democracy for any city in Michigan by appointing an emergency manager.

The power of this emergency manager supersedes a city's duly elected mayor and city council and he reports directly to the governor. Gov. Snyder promptly appointed emergency managers in several (mostly poor, and mainly black) Michigan cities. An emergency manager was appointed to Flint in July 2013.

In January of 2014 the emergency manager of Flint decided to change the source of Flint's drinking water from Lake Huron to the Flint River "to save money." Residents immediately complained about the taste and clarity of their new water supply. Tests of this new source showed it to be corrosive and in need of treatment with various chemicals.

Although the mayor and city council objected, the water was not treated and the residents were told that everything was safe. General Motors stopped using the new city water in October 2014, stating that it corroded their parts. Nothing was done to correct the problem because the emergency manager, reporting directly to the governor, refused to act.

In January 2015, tests were done to Flint's drinking water, which showed that the corrosive Flint River water was leaching lead from the city's water pipes. By September 2015, blood tests of the children in Flint showed elevated amounts of lead. Lead adversely affects the brain causing irreversible damage and retardation.

The emergency manager, reporting directly to the governor, still refused to act. Snyder still refused to acknowledge that there was a problem.

Suspending democracy and ending local control of government allowed Gov. Snyder to poison the residents of Flint.

[Fast Walker 52]

47. yep-- the whole thing was so insanely un-democratic all the way around

[Stuart G]

49. You are totally correct, Snyder is totally at fault, needs to go to jail...

[annabanana]

50. dear jimmyzvoice

Please re-read the original post carefully

Most of the posters here are fully cognizant of the emergency managers law. The new information is that it wasn't to "save money" that the switch was made. The real reason is much more insidious.

[hopemountain]

90. this is why his emails and communications

going back 5 years should be subpoenaed. he is to blame and he had support in usurping democracy and the rights of the people of Michigan.

[vkkv]

45. K&R

[Stuart G]

48. Yes...that is it, I hope that goes to court...privatize the water!!! great post. nt

[blackspade]

51. So, it's worse that "saving money"...It's about making money....

For Snyder's rich donors.

[chapdrum]

53. "Democrats have to use this horrible story...

to take back elected office all over this country."

Yes, they'll get right on that.

First though, the corporate media will ask Hillary what she would do with this information.

[cer7711]

54. Mass Murder Was Committed In Flint, Michigan

In slow motion.

EVERYONE involved in this tale of a an entire city's populace being poisoned for profit (or other DWSD-busting motives) should go to jail.

Why isn't this the lead story on every corporate news network? (That was a rhetorical question, folks.)

[suffragette]

58. "disposable in the name of privatization." This is the core of running gov't like a business.

From shutting off water to create a crisis to shunting the source without regard to its poisonous result.

http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/end-game-of-shutting-off-resident-water-is-likely-privatization-attempt/18777-end-game-of-shutting-off-resident-water-is-likely-privatization-attempt

There are those, however, who see profit flowing through the water system of DWSD, and if a family cannot afford water, under the logic of profit, it makes sense to cut them loose; they are disposable in the name of privatization.

From the beginning, declaring Detroit bankrupt was an effort by Gov. Snyder, a venture capitalist, and the Michigan legislature to sell city property and agencies off to the highest bidder, if they could get away with it.

[trillion]

63. I'm not surprised. Republican Gov. Rich Snyder has done other stuff like this, including an assault

on the public schools he's severely underfunded and he is trying to dismantle.

It's all to break it up so businesses can come in and take it over.

[glinda]

65. All for the Kochs I imagine since they are by there....

[Lindsay]

78. As I understand it from a friend in Michigan,

it's the DeVos family (owners of Amway) who are Michigan's version of the Kochs. (Erik Prince, who founded Blackwater Security, infamous during the Bush-Cheney regime, is also related to the DeVos family. A son-in-law, I think.)

[glinda]

92. Yes. That family also.....but they are all surrounding the Lakes.

[Fast Walker 52]

77. indeed-- and that scandal is almost as bad and has yet to hit the public consciousness

[mercuryblues]

66. I wondered

since I read an article a few days ago that brought up this point.

Detroit is also under a city manager. Wouldn't it have been better to keep Flint on Detroit water until the Karegnondi pipeline was finished? It would have given Detroit needed revenue. It also would have been cheaper to stay with Detroit.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

68. Union busting....

Figures.

Republicans feel like Reagan when they bust a union.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

81. Which also was not about money so much as it was about clearing away

legal and logistical obstacles to pillaging of public assets by multinationals. Cant have those pesky contracts with unions standing in the way. You see how all these dots start to connect!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

89. I see Republicans as complete and total idiots....

They actually believe they are heroes to the average voter for taking on a union.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

113. well yah, that too - both/and

[yurbud]

70. I'd call these guys economic terrorists, but they don't care that they create terror

[billhicks76]

75. Terrorists Yes

Label them publicly.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

71. Arrest, charge, try, convict, jail Snyder. nt

[zentrum]

73. Criminal.

Impeachment, jail, a new special election and a complete restaffing from top to bottom should follow this.

An apology and a few resignations won't do it. JAIL.

[emsimon33]

79. This is what results from vulture capitalism

We are being ruled by psychopaths!

[rladdi]

80. i have read past documents going back to 2010 from the city council and also the

Emergency Manager's document saying he was taking over t he city and informing Mayor and Council they had no power. The real issue is the EM was a financial guy, only in place to cut expenses. He knew nothing about the intrastructure working of the city. He made the decision to switch water supply without having any clue what he was doing, except thinking he was saving a few millions dollars. But he continues to deny he anything to do with the water switch.

[hopemountain]

87. then, it WAS about money

snyder was likely in line for either a payout or profit from privatization. his emails / communications going back to at least 5 years should be subpoenaed. also, major donors to his campaign(s). in addition, his corrupt means of ousting the elected flint mayor and other city reps & replacing them with his appointed "environmental" city manager who only answered to him. the cheese is rotten through and through.

[Proserpina]

91. Snyder wanted to ride his management prowess into the Senate, and then the White House

I think his political future is over now, thank God.

[zwyziec]

94. The country needs to hear about the results of the GOP led march to privatization....

After prisons, libraries, water companies, roads, the medical system, the post office and the VA Health organization.

TAKE THIS COUNTRY BACK.....to the 1930's.

And Jeb! (ashamed of his last name) complimented Synder.

What should be investigated is what finanical kickback Syder walked away with from this privatization deal.

Repukes! Rethugs! Retards! Repugs! All the same. Shameless and without compunction.

[leanforward]

98. I agree

The cost of governance has increased because of this stuff.

[airplaneman]

96. Privatization scares the shit out of me.

Before the ACA Wellpoint the largest USA health care supplier was boasting 50% profit. Add the likely 20% administration costs and they were delivering $0.30 per $1.00. Government is as cheap as it gets add privatization you have to add profit and other expenses. Plus private only invests where the money is not where the need is.
-Airplane

[leanforward]

101. I agree

ANY dealings with the government should be limited to 10%. I believe in free enterprise, but what you cited is rape of the taxpayer(s). I hope I've not offended anyone. I likewise believe in secular government. I think I'll expand my definition to a firewall separation of business and government. I'm willing to listen to otherwise.

[sulphurdunn]

97. Of course it was about privatization.

That's the end game for all public property and institutions with pay to play government there to ensure that the property rights of private wealth are the supreme law of the land.

[leanforward]

102. I agree

and the Governor needs to be given a striped. This thread is probably the most likely action taken by the Governor and one that lined his pocket and for that he needs to be jailed.

[sulphurdunn]

103. Were Snyder an honorable man

the Flint tragedy would never have happened. Had it happened anyway and he were an honorable man, he would have fallen on his sword by now.

[HereSince1628]

116. Ideological capitalism should be feared at least as much as command economy socialism

Belief that government is the only problem is propaganda for those who see public services have great revenue potential but want to acquire them for pennies on the dollar.

[roamer65]

104. I'll sign any recall petitions that come my way. N/t

[ghostsinthemachine]

106. Hmmmm (nt)

[Person 2713]

107. So not save the town money but make himself a money deal?

Even worse than thought huh?

[reddread]

108. make an example out of him

[steve2470]

109. k&r! nt

[bananas]

111. Wow! k&r nt

[U of M Dem]

114. I very much hope that Snyder and the republicans involved

will put a very bad republican taste in the mouths of my fellow Michiganders in coming elections. This state needs some progressive minds leading.