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trillion

(1,859 posts)
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 08:06 PM Feb 2016

Scientists are floored by what’s happening in the Arctic right now

Source: Washington Post

New data from NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration suggest that January of 2016 was, for the globe, a truly extraordinary month. Coming off the hottest year ever recorded (2015), January saw the greatest departure from average of any month on record, according to data provided by NASA.

But as you can see in the NASA figure above, the record breaking heat wasn’t uniformly distributed — it was particularly pronounced at the top of the world, showing temperature anomalies above 4 degrees Celsius (7.2 degrees Fahrenheit) higher than the 1951 to 1980 average in this region.

Indeed, NASA provides a “zonal mean” version of the temperature map above, which shows how the temperature departures from average change based on one’s latitude location on the Earth. As you can see, things get especially warm, relative to what the Earth is used to, as you enter the very high latitudes:


Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/02/18/scientists-are-floored-by-whats-happening-in-the-arctic-right-now/

79 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Scientists are floored by what’s happening in the Arctic right now (Original Post) trillion Feb 2016 OP
Warmer oceans RobertEarl Feb 2016 #1
Actually they will be colder. JackRiddler Feb 2016 #71
Hillary's support for Fracking is a DISQUALIFIER. Agony Feb 2016 #2
+10000 trillion Feb 2016 #7
if she's the nominee i'll have no problem certainot Feb 2016 #18
Well we will see if the majority of voters agree with your opinion but to be honest cstanleytech Feb 2016 #21
Sadly, I have to agree with you. Agony Feb 2016 #38
Wait, you don't think the Democratic Party takes Climate Change seriously? LannyDeVaney Feb 2016 #45
Do you know how bought out the Dem party is from the fossil fuel industry? Very. trillion Feb 2016 #49
Come on, Dems at least recognize the issue is real and are willing to combat it Fast Walker 52 Feb 2016 #55
Democrats are willing to combat it? bvar22 Feb 2016 #60
Yes, they are-- to some extent Fast Walker 52 Feb 2016 #66
really trillion Feb 2016 #69
I don't believe this is an accurate appraisal. Blackjackdavey Feb 2016 #67
It's Hillary's fault! Zorro Feb 2016 #36
It will be if she delivers to her super pacs. She is showing that she will be part of the problem, trillion Feb 2016 #40
And it's Obama's fault too! Zorro Feb 2016 #42
Unfortunately, it is. trillion Feb 2016 #43
Capitalism, more or less. JackRiddler Feb 2016 #72
fuck randys1 Feb 2016 #3
Hillary supportes here showed no support for the environment SoLeftIAmRight Feb 2016 #4
What? trillion Feb 2016 #6
one vote - must be recent - nothing in the replys SoLeftIAmRight Feb 2016 #10
Not true. Hekate Feb 2016 #8
vote or at least reply in this trhead SoLeftIAmRight Feb 2016 #12
Wow, yeah that is what I'm getting from her supporters. trillion Feb 2016 #13
Post removed Post removed Feb 2016 #16
Jesus christ… dhill926 Feb 2016 #17
The point is, 2012 was the worst year for the Arctic on record, and we have already easily beat that trillion Feb 2016 #5
If that does happen, the death spiral will truly be in full effect NickB79 Feb 2016 #11
when the new modeling is done based on the current trend I have to wonder NoMoreRepugs Feb 2016 #15
Just looking at the lastest Greenland and Antartic data Elmer S. E. Dump Feb 2016 #23
sad when you realize how many 'Mericans don't think this is even real NoMoreRepugs Feb 2016 #24
Too many "Mericans" only think what they are told to think. olddad56 Feb 2016 #29
The death spiral feedback loop will be entered. Then it's over. Elmer S. E. Dump Feb 2016 #22
Oh, shit's been getting real for decades now . . . hatrack Feb 2016 #25
This kind of hyperbole is as annoying imo as the people who deny climate change cstanleytech Feb 2016 #26
Thank you for your concern! Your solicitude is deeply touching! hatrack Feb 2016 #32
No, thanks but please feel free to use a nice soft tissue to dry your tears my good fellow. cstanleytech Feb 2016 #33
We're already entering the 6th mass extinction event in the history of the planet NickB79 Feb 2016 #35
Yes life will go on. Chemisse Feb 2016 #53
I can understand that but if it makes you feel any better I do not believe humans will cstanleytech Feb 2016 #57
The scary thing is that it wouldn't take much. Chemisse Feb 2016 #59
I read that its supposed to be cut by a 1/3 but while cstanleytech Feb 2016 #62
by the end of the century airplaneman Feb 2016 #48
I think it's been unstoppable for a while now. Chemisse Feb 2016 #54
Methane venting can be explosive in nature NickB79 Feb 2016 #75
Wow. That is amazing. Chemisse Feb 2016 #77
Maybe, but not necessarily - 2011 was the lowest maximum, but didn't drop as much as 2012 muriel_volestrangler Feb 2016 #50
Once we start routinely exceeding wet bulb temps, billions are fucked NickB79 Feb 2016 #76
Gee, do you think it's time for the richest country on earth to DO something? Peace Patriot Feb 2016 #9
Bill & Hillary Clinton did nothing while Bill was President Geronimoe Feb 2016 #14
Have you done your part and stopped driving ICE vehicles? Zorro Feb 2016 #37
Look, you're not helping Hillary or the image of her supporters. trillion Feb 2016 #39
How about answering the question instead of evading it Zorro Feb 2016 #44
red herring and thread hijack. trillion Feb 2016 #46
Post removed Post removed Feb 2016 #47
I don't own or drive any ICE vehicles. Jim Lane Feb 2016 #58
Odd - Geronimoe tried to make this about politicians, Zorro talked about energy muriel_volestrangler Feb 2016 #51
Thank you for the integrity of your post. You are correct. My bad. trillion Feb 2016 #70
And, Bill had the best information, early. He had Al Gore as his VP - and still did nothing. trillion Feb 2016 #41
Distracted with his privates? tinrobot Feb 2016 #52
This would make a great question in next debate. Nt JudyM Feb 2016 #63
Shit fire. blackspade Feb 2016 #19
Who said something like... We can hire half to kill the other half? SoLeftIAmRight Feb 2016 #27
Sadly accurate blackspade Feb 2016 #28
it was Jay Gould SoLeftIAmRight Feb 2016 #30
how many people here going to universities that support rw global warming denial? certainot Feb 2016 #20
I can verify. Blue_In_AK Feb 2016 #31
Detroit forecast for Feb. 19, 2016 -- Highs ranging from 50-55 F Octafish Feb 2016 #34
Well yes and no titaniumsalute Feb 2016 #56
Remember snow? Octafish Feb 2016 #61
Remember the past two winters? titaniumsalute Feb 2016 #73
The planet can't wait for petty political bickering. We need action now Arazi Feb 2016 #64
I've given up on anything being done about climate change. It's over. Oneironaut Feb 2016 #65
Quite a few of us are smart enough... lutefisk Feb 2016 #74
True words farleftlib Feb 2016 #78
61 Degrees in Pittsburgh this afternoon! Divernan Feb 2016 #68
I'm convinced that's what to expect from that group. trillion Feb 2016 #79
 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
1. Warmer oceans
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 08:12 PM
Feb 2016

Antarctica is not thawing as fast because it is land based.

Siberia likes global warming because it is close to the Arctic and is also heating up.

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
71. Actually they will be colder.
Sat Feb 20, 2016, 01:05 AM
Feb 2016

Warmer atmosphere --> ice melts --> cold water moves south --> colder oceans in temperate zones.

Theorizing holds this could reverse the gulf stream and freeze out western Europe.

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
18. if she's the nominee i'll have no problem
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 09:10 PM
Feb 2016

voting against the mother fucking republicans who have been obstructing us all the way

cstanleytech

(26,480 posts)
21. Well we will see if the majority of voters agree with your opinion but to be honest
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 09:19 PM
Feb 2016

I do not believe that Hillarys opinion on fracking will be what influences the majority of voters one way or the other.

Agony

(2,605 posts)
38. Sadly, I have to agree with you.
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 11:07 PM
Feb 2016

So, when exactly will the Democratic Party take Climate Change seriously?

I have written to her to say that I will not vote for her specifically because of her advocacy for Fracking and continued FF development. You?

 

LannyDeVaney

(1,033 posts)
45. Wait, you don't think the Democratic Party takes Climate Change seriously?
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 11:36 PM
Feb 2016

OK, so we'll just disagree on that one.

Maybe Independents take is seriously?!

 

trillion

(1,859 posts)
49. Do you know how bought out the Dem party is from the fossil fuel industry? Very.
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 02:27 AM
Feb 2016

Seriously. They're even in your avatar's super pac list. Where do you think they are getting the 2 billion they will spend on a pres this year anyway?

And, Hillary is also not going to do anything to slow climate change or to tick off her very long list of donors.

I have a cool idea, how about every time you think of an issue that you support - something progressive, you google Hillary on it? Then come back and tell us how good she does. No, no fair using her new found I'll say anything campaign speeches. You have to bring back something solid that is more than 3 months old.

Here's one:
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/10/hillary-clinton-climate-change-debate-copenhagen

Here's another:
http://grist.org/climate-energy/hillary-clinton-rakes-in-money-from-fossil-fuel-interests/

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
55. Come on, Dems at least recognize the issue is real and are willing to combat it
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:23 AM
Feb 2016

And not all Dems are same on issue, either. One big problem has been Obama's incoherent strategy on climate change. But biggest problem is GOP in congress by far.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
60. Democrats are willing to combat it?
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 09:34 AM
Feb 2016

That is why President Obama is the Drill, Baby, Drill President, despite the 2008 campaign?
...and hasn't lifted a finger to slow down fracking despite the overwhelming evidence that it is harmful to our ground water and drinking water?

Admitting that Climate Change is REAL,
and willingness to actually DO anything about it at two different things,
especially when looking at the Billions spent by the Oil Industry and other polluters buying our politicians, Republican and Democrat.

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
66. Yes, they are-- to some extent
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 12:20 PM
Feb 2016

I understand your points, and it is sickening. But fuck, at least Dems can be persuaded to address it.

 

trillion

(1,859 posts)
69. really
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 06:19 PM
Feb 2016

Look:

DNC rolls back Obama ban on contributions from federal lobbyists
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/dnc-allowing-donations-from-federal-lobbyists-and-pacs/2016/02/12/22b1c38c-d196-11e5-88cd-753e80cd29ad_story.html


The DNC is bought out by the establishment. They're about to spend 2 billion to run a candidate and they want Hillary. They didn't get that 2 billion from us.

They're giving you lip service that they are willing to fight climate change much like Hillary did when she said she was and it turned out she's connected to fossil fuels and fracking.

Bernie Sanders Will Ban Fracking. Hillary Clinton 'Sold Fracking to the World'
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/bernie-sanders-will-ban-fracking-_b_9156182.html

Blackjackdavey

(178 posts)
67. I don't believe this is an accurate appraisal.
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 01:01 PM
Feb 2016

While it is true that the President has increased the domestic production of oil, that has been one of the factors that has driven the price of oil too low for other, less "wholesome" means of oil production, to be cost effective. His handling of the Keystone Piplene, in retrospect, has been quite similar to the manner the Malheur takeover was handled, sometimes watching, waiting and creating conditions that naturally create desired outcomes is the best strategy. He has also presided over a meaningful contraction of the coal industry while the domestic solar industry has reached totally unprecedented levels on his watch. I would also point out the Paris accords, despite the recent supreme court wrench. In other words, the president has been the most important environmental president in the modern and perhaps any era and will likely be his most substantive legacy.

 

trillion

(1,859 posts)
40. It will be if she delivers to her super pacs. She is showing that she will be part of the problem,
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 11:19 PM
Feb 2016

not the solution. And, if you look closely you will see she's been part of the problem since she first ran for Senator.

 

trillion

(1,859 posts)
13. Wow, yeah that is what I'm getting from her supporters.
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 08:42 PM
Feb 2016

There's a lot of gaps in them about everything progressives usually support. I mean, some even told me they support the TPP.

Response to trillion (Reply #13)

 

trillion

(1,859 posts)
5. The point is, 2012 was the worst year for the Arctic on record, and we have already easily beat that
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 08:15 PM
Feb 2016

for 2016, and we're only in the middle of February. As the article says, this time we start off in a hole - instead of a season where there was sea ice build up before the thaw.

"The center reports temperature anomalies at this altitude of “more than 6 degrees Celsius (13 degrees Fahrenheit) above average” for the month.

The low sea ice situation has now continued into February. Current ice extent is well below levels at the same point in 2012, which went on to set the current record for the lowest sea ice minimum extent"

NickB79

(19,355 posts)
11. If that does happen, the death spiral will truly be in full effect
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 08:26 PM
Feb 2016

The loss of the albedo effect as the ice melts, followed by thawing permafrost venting methane in mass quantities, will confirm what some have suspected for a while now: positive feedbacks mean climate change has become unstoppable by human means, and we will blow through 2C of warming by the end of the century even with our best attempts at carbon reduction.

Hold on to your seats, folks. Shit just got real.

NoMoreRepugs

(9,668 posts)
15. when the new modeling is done based on the current trend I have to wonder
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 08:53 PM
Feb 2016

how far that end of the century estimate is going to be pulled in. The thawing permafrost has become a much larger factor recently and it's effect I believe (please correct me if I'm wrong) is more geometrical in terms of how quickly it will warm the planet versus polar ice melting.

 

Elmer S. E. Dump

(5,751 posts)
23. Just looking at the lastest Greenland and Antartic data
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 09:25 PM
Feb 2016

I think we should subtract 20-30 years off the latest estimates.

hatrack

(59,689 posts)
25. Oh, shit's been getting real for decades now . . .
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 09:29 PM
Feb 2016

The only difference is that the movie just shifted from black and white to full Technicolor.

More eyeballs on the screen now, more attention, but otherwise just the fulfillment of long-held scientific expectations.

cstanleytech

(26,480 posts)
26. This kind of hyperbole is as annoying imo as the people who deny climate change
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 09:30 PM
Feb 2016

and does just as much good.
Sure, the temp will rise but this does not = omg death spiral.
Species go extinct, even we humans will in time soon or later and this might cause it or it might not but given the earths history I will say life will probably continue long after we humans and our cities are nothing but dust.

hatrack

(59,689 posts)
32. Thank you for your concern! Your solicitude is deeply touching!
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 09:57 PM
Feb 2016

In fact, I am on the verge of tears here, knowing how much you care, and how very much you have to offer this discussion.

Can I plump up your pillows, or perhaps leave some mints atop them, good Sir?

You're the BEST!

NickB79

(19,355 posts)
35. We're already entering the 6th mass extinction event in the history of the planet
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 10:44 PM
Feb 2016
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/22/the-earth-is-on-the-brink-of-a-sixth-mass-extinction-scientists-say-and-its-humans-fault/

In a study published Friday in the journal Science Advances, biologists found that the Earth is losing mammal species 20 to 100 times the rate of the past. Extinctions are happening so fast, they could rival the event that killed the dinosaurs in as little as 250 years. Given the timing, the unprecedented speed of the losses and decades of research on the effects of pollution, hunting and habitat loss, they assert that human activity is responsible.

“The smoking gun in these extinctions is very obvious, and it’s in our hands,” co-author Todd Palmer, a biologist at the University of Florida, wrote in an e-mail to The Washington Post.


I'm sure something will survive the current ELE we've kicked off. It's just that we likely won't be around to see what those survivors are.

Chemisse

(30,845 posts)
53. Yes life will go on.
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:08 AM
Feb 2016

But possibly not the lives of my sweet little grandchildren. Call me hyperbolic, but that matters a whole lot to me.

cstanleytech

(26,480 posts)
57. I can understand that but if it makes you feel any better I do not believe humans will
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:40 AM
Feb 2016

become extinct right now, we are a pretty adaptable species overall so I dont think climate change will be what ends us though it certainly will not be pleasant.

Chemisse

(30,845 posts)
59. The scary thing is that it wouldn't take much.
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:56 AM
Feb 2016

And it's hard to predict what would do it.

For example, just the loss of bees on earth would cut our fruit and vegetable production by 70%, plus cause the extinction of many animals who rely upon these same plants to live.

And that is just one little insect. Many more species would go extinct as the climate changed too quickly for adaptation, and their loss could affect us profoundly.

cstanleytech

(26,480 posts)
62. I read that its supposed to be cut by a 1/3 but while
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 10:39 AM
Feb 2016

honeybees are currently what we use because the hives are very portable and the bees themselves have been largely domesticated I think that we could still find ways to adept in time, after all there are other bee species not to mention ants and butterflies and also just flies themselves that pollinate, the trick would be finding one that could do the job as well as the domestic honeybees.

airplaneman

(1,253 posts)
48. by the end of the century
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 02:03 AM
Feb 2016

Try googling "Planetary Omnicide between 2023 and 2031"
It may be sooner than you think.
-Airplane

Chemisse

(30,845 posts)
54. I think it's been unstoppable for a while now.
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:16 AM
Feb 2016

The warmer the oceans, the faster the ice melts, the less albedo, and then the warmer the oceans.

I hadn't thought about venting methane, which is a far more potent greenhouse gas than CO2.

The 'death spiral' will probably go faster than anyone has articulated.

So yes, it is unstoppable. But it sure would be nice if we could at least TRY.

NickB79

(19,355 posts)
75. Methane venting can be explosive in nature
Sun Feb 21, 2016, 03:49 PM
Feb 2016

The recent discovery of mysterious Siberian craters has been linked to thawing permafrost and methane outgassing:

?w=650

muriel_volestrangler

(101,596 posts)
50. Maybe, but not necessarily - 2011 was the lowest maximum, but didn't drop as much as 2012
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 06:50 AM
Feb 2016
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/

You can look at the graph marked "N. hemispheric ice area", or the "interactive chart". 2014 and 2015 had a maximum below that of 2012, for that matter.

But it has been an extraordinary winter for parts of the Arctic. As I said a couple of weeks ago, Svalbard has been about 10 degrees Celsius above its normal temperature, for about 2 months now - see http://www.yr.no/place/Norway/Svalbard/Longyearbyen/statistics.html . The Barents Sea, between Svalbard and Russia, has about 210,000 sq. km of ice now - average for this time of year (1979-2008) was about 640,000 sq. km. It looks like the ice in that sea peaked in late January. It's even possible that ice for the whole Arctic has peaked for this year too, though we'll have to wait another month or so to know.

NickB79

(19,355 posts)
76. Once we start routinely exceeding wet bulb temps, billions are fucked
Sun Feb 21, 2016, 03:52 PM
Feb 2016
http://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/research/2010/100504HuberLimits.html

While the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change central estimates of business-as-usual warming by 2100 are seven degrees Fahrenheit, eventual warming of 25 degrees is feasible, he said.

"We found that a warming of 12 degrees Fahrenheit would cause some areas of the world to surpass the wet-bulb temperature limit, and a 21-degree warming would put half of the world's population in an uninhabitable environment," Huber said. "When it comes to evaluating the risk of carbon emissions, such worst-case scenarios need to be taken into account. It's the difference between a game of roulette and playing Russian roulette with a pistol. Sometimes the stakes are too high, even if there is only a small chance of losing."

Steven Sherwood, the professor at the Climate Change Research Centre at the University of New South Wales, Australia, who is the paper's lead author, said prolonged wet-bulb temperatures above 95 degrees would be intolerable after a matter of hours.

"The wet-bulb limit is basically the point at which one would overheat even if they were naked in the shade, soaking wet and standing in front of a large fan," Sherwood said. "Although we are very unlikely to reach such temperatures this century, they could happen in the next."

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
9. Gee, do you think it's time for the richest country on earth to DO something?
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 08:21 PM
Feb 2016

"No, we can't."



---------------------

Sigh.

 

Geronimoe

(1,539 posts)
14. Bill & Hillary Clinton did nothing while Bill was President
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 08:45 PM
Feb 2016

Nothing was done to address Global Warming in the entire 8 years.

Wake up folks! Bill was, well distracted with his privates.

 

trillion

(1,859 posts)
39. Look, you're not helping Hillary or the image of her supporters.
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 11:17 PM
Feb 2016

You might want to at least feign that you actually give a damn about climate change.

 

trillion

(1,859 posts)
46. red herring and thread hijack.
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 11:47 PM
Feb 2016

The issue is far bigger than gas powered(ICE) cars and being about to afford the new hybrids. It has to do with affordable clean energy that should be far more developed and out there than it is right now. That said, welcome to my ignore. Litter the thread for everyone else and do, continue to show us the integrity of Hillary supporters.

Response to trillion (Reply #46)

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
58. I don't own or drive any ICE vehicles.
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:48 AM
Feb 2016

I recognize, though, that for some people that's not a feasible option. Similarly, I haven't installed solar panels, because I rent. I wouldn't call anyone a hypocrite based on any specific lifestyle issue.

The point of the OP is that climate change is a huge problem. It's OK to discuss personal choices (without the personal insults) but we also have to think about things like fracking and the Keystone Pipeline.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,596 posts)
51. Odd - Geronimoe tried to make this about politicians, Zorro talked about energy
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 07:01 AM
Feb 2016

and yet you claim that Zorro, who didn't mention politicians at all, is the one with the political image problem. Why aren't you criticising Geronimoe for hijacking the thread and bringing the completely irrelevant "Bill's privates" into it? That's what is giving supporters a bad image in the thread, and it's supporters of Sanders.

For the record, I am British, and am not taking sides in the primary. But I can recognise a thread hijack when I see one.

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
19. Shit fire.
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 09:13 PM
Feb 2016

And our capitalist masters won't give a shit if the rest of us start dying.
They will just retreat to their armed gated communities.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
34. Detroit forecast for Feb. 19, 2016 -- Highs ranging from 50-55 F
Thu Feb 18, 2016, 10:07 PM
Feb 2016

Mid-winter 50s is out of the ordinary. Thank you, Scalia.

titaniumsalute

(4,742 posts)
56. Well yes and no
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:35 AM
Feb 2016

I've spent most of my life in NE Ohio. We always seem to get a weird 55 to 60 degree day in Jan and or Feb. By Monday back to highs of 35 and lows 22 for the next 8 days.

titaniumsalute

(4,742 posts)
73. Remember the past two winters?
Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:01 PM
Feb 2016

Two years ago NE Ohio had like 88 inches of snow (average here is about 60 per year.) Last year it was also above average at about 68 inches.

We have a La Nina going on which always means a warmer winter in NE Ohio. Right now we are forcasted to get around 3 to 6 more inches this week. We shall see I guess.

Oneironaut

(5,604 posts)
65. I've given up on anything being done about climate change. It's over.
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 11:55 AM
Feb 2016

Humans are simply not smart enough as a species to resolve climate change and not kill ourselves. We're basically just a bunch of hairless apes who obsess over things like inivisible sky fairies and invisible lines in the sand we call "countries." Simply put, we're laughably dull. We can't agree that something that is obviously happening is real.

I wish we lived in a world where everyone at least tried to get along. We would be in space right now. We would be so far advanced and have a great quality of life. Instead, we have morons like ISIS who kill each other because their sky fairy crafted an ambiguously written book that tells them it's okay.

I wonder if we'll ever improve? I don't think so. I think that, as a species, we'll die here clinging to our guns and holy books like morons, never becoming any more significant than some termites who drowned because the fallen tree they were gnawing on collapsed and fell into the river.

lutefisk

(3,974 posts)
74. Quite a few of us are smart enough...
Sun Feb 21, 2016, 02:00 PM
Feb 2016

But tragically, we're trapped in the ultimate "I'm with stupid" scenario. I still believe there's a sliver of hope...

 

farleftlib

(2,125 posts)
78. True words
Sun Feb 21, 2016, 04:15 PM
Feb 2016

Your post reminded me of George Carlin (high praise) saying how the planet is going to shrug us off its surface and return to normal. We won't destroy the planet so much as we'll destroy the environment to the point where it won't support mammalian life any longer. The earth will then heal and we'll be just another extinct species that went the way of the dodo bird.

I do believe in my sky fairy though. Just not enough to ignore this problem.

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
68. 61 Degrees in Pittsburgh this afternoon!
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 05:21 PM
Feb 2016

Was at a lunch with a group including a 3rd Way Democratic committee woman/Hillary supporter, who condescendingly informed me, and other 6 people there (all of whom oppose fracking) that there were NO negative side effects or impacts from fracking, and that anyone who thought so, like me, simply didn't understand science.

 

trillion

(1,859 posts)
79. I'm convinced that's what to expect from that group.
Sun Feb 21, 2016, 04:45 PM
Feb 2016

Hillary's massive fracking support can only lead back to the Koches. Her supporters don't care. They call themselves progressives and then she gets exposed on issue after issue and they get mad and try to have the truth hidden. If the Koch brothers stood next to her on stage smiling for the rest of her campaign, her supporters would still vote for her and get massively ticked if you pointed them out.

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