Poll: Trump, Clinton score historic unfavorable ratings

[imagine2015]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by one_voice (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: CNN


By David Wright, CNN
Updated 7:40 AM ET, Tue March 22, 2016

Washington (CNN) — Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton register net negative ratings in double digits, indicating the front-runners for each party's presidential nominations are viewed negatively at historic levels, according to a new CBS/New York Times poll.

That makes Trump and Clinton viewed more unfavorably than any front-runner for either party since 1984, when CBS began polling voters on the question.

On the Republican side, Trump scores a net negative of -33, with a favorable rating of 24% compared to 57% of voters who view him unfavorably. On the Democratic side, Clinton fares only slightly better with a net negative of -21, registering a 31% favorable rating and a 52% unfavorable rating, according to the poll.

Both candidates' negatives far outweigh front-runners of the past. In 2012, President Barack Obama was viewed favorably and unfavorably by an equal share of voters, while Republican nominee Mitt Romney scored a net negative of -7. In 2008, both Obama and Sen. John McCain had net positive ratings of 16 and 7 points, respectively.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/22/politics/2016-election-poll-donald-trump-hillary-clinton/index.html

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/22/politics/2016-election-poll-donald-trump-hillary-clinton/index.html

[upaloopa]

1. She is beating Bernie so I guess it isn't as important as Bernie folks think.

[Dustlawyer]

2. You must be so proud.

[upaloopa]

19. Well since most of Hillary's negatives come from bull shit scandals dreamt up by her

opponents, yes I am proud that she is stronger than they are and will become the first woman President.

[EdwardBernays]

27. this fantasy of yours

means you're going to be in for a huge shock in November, when the LEFT stays home, the indies vote Trump or stay home and the Republicans come out in record numbers...

...because NO ONE but a dwindling minority buy this "it's all a right-wing smear" talking point any more...

[certainot]

33. rw radio has attacked the clintons for 25 years

at a cheap $1000/hr x 1200 stns x 15 hrs a day that $4BIL/year for 25 years.

it aint no fantasy.

any bernie fans who continue to ignore that are bloody idiots- it will be turned on him and will obstruct him like it did clinton and obama. and anyone on the left who stays home from voting will also be an idiot.

below's a list of 90 universities supporting 260 limbaugh stations that will be attacking bernie if he beats hillary.

below this list is an example from one hour of a michael savage show from last year, getting warmed up. check it out. if bernie supporters as a whole ignore rw radio like clinton and obama supporters have they will not be able to say they got bernie's back.

ALABAMA 8 Auburn 3, Alabama 2, Southern Alabama 2, Troy 1
ARIZONA 2 Arizona St. 1, Arizona 1
ARKANSAS 3 Arkansas 3
CALIFORNIA 5 San Jose State 2, USC 2, Fresno St. 1
COLORADO 4 Air Force 2, Colorado 1, Colorado State 1
CONNECTICUT 1 Connecticut 1
FLORIDA 20 Florida 10, Florida St. 4 Miami 2, South Florida 2, Central Florida 2
GEORGIA 14 Georgia 7, Georgia Tech 5, Georgia Southern 2
IDAHO 7 Boise St. 4, Idaho 3
ILLINOIS 7 Illinois 7
INDIANA 11 Notre Dame 6, Purdue 4, Indiana 1
IOWA 5 Iowa 4, Iowa St. 1
KANSAS 4 Kansas St. 2, Kansas 1, Wichita St. 1
KENTUCKY 3 Louisville 2, Kentucky 1
LOUSIANA 3 LSU 2, La.-Monroe 1
MARYLAND 2 Maryland 2
MASSACHUSETTS 1 Boston College 1
MICHIGAN 19 Michigan St. 11, Michigan 7, Western Michigan 1
MINNESOTA 4 Minnesota 4
MISSISSIPPI 6 Mississippi St. 3, Mississippi 2, Southern Miss 1
MISSOURI 6 Missouri 6
NEBRASKA 6 Nebraska 6
NEVADA 1 Nevada 1
NEW JERSEY 2 Rutgers 1, Seton Hall 1
NEW MEXICO 3 New Mexico 2, New Mexico St. 1
NEW YORK 7 Syracuse 6, Army 1
NORTH CAROLINA 16 North Carolina 8, North Carolina State 3, Duke 3, East Carolina 2
OHIO 10 Ohio St. 6, Toledo 1, Dayton 1, Bowling Green 1, Xavier 1
OKLAHOMA 5 Oklahoma St. 3, Oklahoma 1, Oral Roberts 1
OREGON 12 Oregon St. 7, Oregon 5
PENNSYLVANIA 14 Penn St. 11, Pittsburgh 2, Temple 1
SOUTH CAROLINA 4 South Carolina 2, Clemson 2
TENNESSEE 7 Tennessee 4, Memphis 3
TEXAS 16 Texas A&M 9, Texas Tech 4, Texas 1, Texas Christian 1, Baylor 1
UTAH 1 Utah St. 1
VIRGINIA 6 Virginia Tech 5, Virginia 1
WASHINGTON 6 Washington 5, Washington St. 1
WEST VIRGINIA 2 West Virginia 1, Marshall 1
WISCONSIN 4 Wisconsin 4

BERNIE SANDERS IS A
Schmuck

Liberalism is a mental disorder, Bernie’s an eg of someone who’s on medication, well he’s on medication obviously in my opinion he should be on severe thorazine in a bug house

He’s a retrovirus, not only a carrier of the marxist virus but he’s actually an infection himself

Schmuck, a lowlife of the lowest order a brooklyn commie, i know the type.... if they were a teacher they’d get fired for sleeping with a student

I knew the type, the grandfather stood on the corner of union square on a soapbox screaming about the wonders of communism even though he fled russia

Schmuck

(Bernie supporters) millennials, morons lived in their parents basement until yesterday

The clinton machine will not let him get there- it will be a pullonium bagel or an exploding knish, there’ll be an accident, a little advice for bernie- don’t jog in marcy park

Liberty university- why would they let this schmuck speak there? let this anti christian communist speak there?

What does that mean raised in a jewish family, non observant? he was a communist descended from jews!

Let him sell body parts, lunatic, too stupid to invest wisely

We're overrun by mexicans and syrians and this schmuck’s talking about income inequality

Steeped in marxism right down to the dirty suit, died in the wool loser, at least he’s not wearing a pantsuit, now if he came out in a pink pantsuit i’d say he has a better chance at the crossover vote

If he won i’d leave the country

Inarticulate lowlife, bad health, lifetime of mariajuana, bad red wine, tofu, probably enlarged breasts from the tofu, emaciated mentally and physically, can’t he get a hair cut? the breath on this guy, halitosis

I want to ridicule him, i want to tear him apart like a cat with a mouse, i’d invite him on the show anytime he wants,

Moron moron moron sick

[EdwardBernays]

49. none of this

has anything to do with what I said... the clintonites believe that this ^^^ means Hillary isn't dishonest and corrupt, which is just as absurd as anything you'd hear on right-wing radio.

[certainot]

73. i'm saying people on the left who as you suggest may not vote

against republicans maybe could use a little perspective.

there is still a lot of rw bullshit making it into the liberal blogs

[EdwardBernays]

85. yeeeeessss

but all I ever see here is Clinton supporters IMMEDIATELY saying any and all criticism of Clinton is a RW media smear/conspiracy theory... which is VERY FAR from the truth.

[certainot]

88. constructive criticism is one thing. i get a facial tick

every time someone brings up not voting.

[EdwardBernays]

89. better get used to it

because there's thousands and thousands of independents and progressives that will stay home instead of voting for Clinton in November.... I PERSONALLY don't understand how anyone thinks a real progressive COULD vote for either Clinton or Trump.

[certainot]

90. so you're helping the kochs and trump suppress votes

how 'progressive'

last time i told some #@$#$#@$ what i thought of kind of that selfish unicorn herding stupidity they deleted my comment

we can argue about how much of a democracy this really is but in a real democracy our representatives are supposed to be sensitive to their constituents. if we call, write, fax, and protest we would like them to hear us and pay attention. we appeal to them. we try to intimidate them by threatening to withdraw our support. we use our activism to push our representatives to the left or to at least do the right thing. We vote for the people who will minimize that effort, so we don’t have to work 60 hrs a week to raise a family. so we don’t have to keep a gun under our beds. so we’re not always protesting or thinking about it, or spending all our spare time worried about fascism and terrorism and environmental suicide.

so why the fuck do we allow a few blowhards with huge megaphones yell over us and pretend they represent a majority of Americans just because they’re louder? why do we allow 1200 coordinated radio stations to constantly attack our candidates before and after we elect them?

if we ignore that massive megaphone why should we complain if they feel like they should move right?

if we want good people to run for office we can’t expect all of them to be as principled and honest and brave as Bernie or Elizabeth Warren. Or Paul; Wellstone. it would be nice, but unfair and unrealistic. there are better things for people to do.

and if they do run is it fair and realistic to expect them to maintain their principles and bravery if we let 1200 coordinated radio stations attack them without challenge?

[EdwardBernays]

92. lol

It's hilarious to me how every Clintonite assumes that the ONLY solution to the the wide apathy/distrust of the leading Dem candidate is that we all just suck it up and vote out of fear, because there's no other options... lol.

What's ACTUALLY selfish is backing a candidate that you know that the country doesn't like or trust, when you know there's an alternative that is loved, has passionate followers (and donors) and is widely trusted by even Republicans... and polls better against Republicans... but no no... throw away al of that... because we don't have a choice...lol

Good luck with that, because no one is buying it...

Here's the thing, if you go into this with brutally low expectations, you're gonna get garbage... sure you're supporting someone no one likes or trusts, you know all about that already...

As for fair - bernie has been elected a lot more times, while being a lot more honest, a lot less flip-floppy... so is it fair and realistic? You bet! The reason why there aren't more Bernies is that people like you think that being honest is somehow the equivalent of a unicorn... and if that's that case than Hillary must this

[certainot]

94. so now you're talking about the primaries

as opposed to suppressing votes in the general

make up your mind

i'll gladly vote for clinton in the general over the ones will delay global warming action and increase deregulation and give us another fascist dildo on the court if bernie doesn't win

btw, have you ever voted for a politician who failed to do what they wanted to do?

have you ever voted for someone who lied?

it'd be hard to find a politician like that but some people vote regularly- it's what makes democracy go.

[EdwardBernays]

99. I'm talking about both

as they're interconnected... if you choose to vote for someone awful and encourage other to do the same, and that awful person gets the nod to represent your party, don't be surprised if a LOT of people choose not to vote for them or your party... if the other alternative is also awful don't be surprised if a lot of people vote for no one.

You CAN change things, well voters can, by choosing someone that isn't awful, isn't seen as dishonest or unlikeable, isn't losing to all the Republican candidates in polls, isn't hard pressed to draw a crowd, isn't surrounded and dogged by scandals that never end, etc, etc, etc.

You also make the foolish assumption that someone that is a serial liar is going to do what they claim they're going to do while campaigning... why would you do that? Are you that naive? You SERIOUSLY think she's just lying about Bernie (and to Obama, and the public) but not to you??

Pretty mind-blowing.

Have I ever voted for someone that didn't live up to my expectations? Yes. Have I ever voted for someone that was a serial liar? No. Have I ever voted for someone as corrupt as Hillary? No. Would I? No.

Here's the thing, if you keep going to a shitty restaurant, it stays open. If you keep going to shitty movies, they keep making them. If you keep supporting shitty candidates you're gonna keep getting shitty candidates. If you have the CHOICE between a good restaurant and a bad one, and you choose to support the bad one, and the good one goes out of business, that's on your head... you can't then complain that there's no good restaurants; you shut them down.

And dear god, if Hillary manages to get elected by some miracle, and she sends this country into the endless wars she's known for, how are you gonna justify that?? Sorry your son's arm was blown off in Syria, it had to happen because I was scared of Trump.

The number of people that buy that logic are dwindling quickly.

[certainot]

101. i can't take you seriously

suggesting others not vote, you might as well be a republican

[EdwardBernays]

104. Lol

You've just misunderstood democracy and your roll in it.

[JonLeibowitz]

102. +1000. I could not have expressed myself better. bravo.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

63. i don't like her for my own reasons

Warhawk, triangulating, 1%'er living in a bubble of her own making.

[retrowire]

69. wowww...

how demeaning can you be?

[certainot]

75. you mean michael savage on 400 radio stations yelling about bernie?

or me reacting to voter suppression disguised knowingly or unknowingly as hillary criticism?

just injecting some perspective for people who may be new voters or don't pay attention until someone like obama or sanders comes along.

[redruddyred]

84. this was defos worth reading, thanks

but clinton also lies maliciously and with just as much impunity
i think she's "better" than this hatemonger, but what does that really mean?
thanks for sharing

[upaloopa]

44. A fantacy of yours. I don't get why some people on this board are so invested with Hillary

losing the general.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

46. because a hillary presidency scares the shit out of thinking people

Yes, she is that bad. And she makes it easy for the RW to attack her.

[padfun]

53. I'm a Sanders supporter

But any of the two RW Repugs running are a HELL of a lot worse than Hillary would be.

But I still think Bernie can win. If not, then Hillary gets my vote, just to stop Cruz/Trump.

[Politicub]

65. Stop painting us with a broad brush

"Thinking people" can support Hillary as much as "thinking people" can support democratic socialist Sanders.

Unless you're trying to insult people, you're not doing the Sanders camp any favors by posting what amounts to calling Hillary supporters ignorant.

Think on that for a while.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

81. What I think comes from my experiences with her.

I can never vote for someone that corrupt. She lies routinely, even when it serves no purpose.

[ut oh]

91. You may want to preach the same to

your fellow Hillary supporters:

" and anyone on the left who stays home from voting will also be an idiot. " - certainot

This was the first salvo in the thread.... Certainly doesn't make Bernie supporters feel welcome. If anything, generates the kinds of responses you are complaining about.

[upaloopa]

78. We all think. We see the same things but through different paradigms.

[EdwardBernays]

50. we're not invested

we're seeing what is extremely obvious... Hillary can't even beat Ted Cruz in the polls, and the GOP and media have been saying that Trump has plateaued or is about to collapse for months. Americans don't trust or like Hillary, and every few days she lies again and damages herself with independents and progressives even further... and of course she's the opposite of what many people consider to be a progressive...

So it's obvious that the same people that could win her the nomination can't win her the Presidency... and it's obvious that's acting something close to suicidal in the primaries with her dishonesty and scorched earth campaigning... it doesn't make me happy that you and your fellow clintonites are handing over America to Trump, for the sake of such an awful candidate, but it's clear to anyone with eyes that Hillary has been sinking for months and will help Trump destroy herself in the GE, if she's the nominee.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

60. A lot of Hillary supporters don't CARE if "The Left" stays home....

They really believe "The Left" in this country are a tiny minority and their policies have been rejected by the American people.

They keep bringing up McGovern as if being anti-Vietnam War and pro-Peace is why he lost. Thank goodness Hillary isn't into that hippie stuff.

[redruddyred]

83. why dYOU think he lost, spitfire

hartmann says it's because nixon coopted his platform
frankly this election cycle is the first i've heard of this guy

[Spitfire of ATJ]

93. He lost because the Party locked out the anti-war movement from the 1968 Convention...

Then they turned the cops loose on them. What followed was a textbook "police riot".

Nixon used the images in a "Law and Order" campaign and to this day "The Left" is associated with rioting. Nixon also promised to "bridge the gap". This included the "Generation Gap" but also included "The gap between rich and poor". He went on Laugh In to seem cool.

In addition, McGovern was a supporter of Bobby Kennedy and after he was assassinated he waited to see if Teddy was going to run in his place. The delay caused the establishment in the party to rally around Humphrey who was a hawk. The message sent was loyalty to the party meant support of LBJ's war in Vietnam.

[LeFleur1]

87. So The Left Will Stay Home

because they love their country and want Donald Trump to be President.
because they are spoiled nutcakes and if they can't have their way they will trash their country.
because they hate women and don't believe even the most experienced in how to run a government should be elected.
because if they can't have everything, they'll take nothing, thank you very much.
because they hate their country and will do nothing at all to try to make things better.
because their fight for their country is over.
because their hate for a candidate is more important than their love for their country.

Even though I believe that it was a terrible wrong to allow Bernie to run on the Democratic ticket, because he is not a Democrat and has never been one, and shouldn't have been allowed to pretend he is one, even though I believe his foreign policy experience is nil, and would be frightening unless he is able to appoint someone who knows something and he is willing to take their advice, even though he threatens to do away with our form of government and put in place something else rather than fix what is wrong with our government, I would vote for him because a Republican in office would be a terrible thing, just as a Republican House and a Republican Senate majority has been a terrible thing for this country.

I do believe that even if the 'left' stays home and pouts, there will be enough sane people in the USA that the Democrat will win, hopefully bringing in a reasonable House and Senate, and we can move forward.

[BlueMTexpat]

41. Exactly! eom

[revbones]

51. Yeah, idolizing her is the way to go. She's never done anything wrong.

No lies. No corruption. No backstabbing at all. She rocks!

[PatrynXX]

55. yeah kinda like somehow Bernie is the enemy

how I have no idea

[snooper2]

77. You won't listen, but people JUST DON'T LIKE HER or DRUMPF!

Ask somebody if they would vote for Hillary or Drumpf and their faces say-

FUCK! Those are my choices! Just start asking people outside your bubble.

[redruddyred]

82. if you think that's why they hate hillary

you're in a bubble, just as She.

to steal Sanders' phrase, "people aren't stupid". except when they are, and running "the establishment" against a guy who seeks to embody all the ugliest pieces of american populism. as they used to say in scrubs, "MISTAAAAAAAKE!"

[imagine2015]

3. And she isn't doing as well as Bernie against Republican candidates. Not so important.

[still_one]

11. Those national poll matchups are very flawed.

Elections are determined by states, not national polls or hypothetical national poll match-ups.

While the recent National Polls show Hillary wining the Democratic nomination, with a +5 to +7 margin, the actual results of those primaries which are closed primaries indicate a far greater number. Ohio, a closed primary, was a double digit lead for Hillary as an example. It is the open primaries and the caucus process that gives more vague results, and I suggest that is because non-Democrats are influencing that.

With regard to the hypothetical national match ups, that is even more apparent. While I have no doubt the vast majority of Hillary supporters choose the hypothetical Democratic nominee over the republican, the reverse is not true. Some Sanders' supporters would have no problem choosing the republican over Hillary to game the poll numbers so they look more favorable to their side. Then they use the argument that "see, Sanders is more electable than Hillary"

It is dishonest at the very least, and I do not put much weighting on these national polls. The April 27th primaries, especially New York and Penn. ones which are closed primaries, should put an end to this nonsense once and for all.

[redruddyred]

16. that's a very complicated answer to a very simple question

which is: do voters prefer bernie, or hillary, to trump?
your arguments seem contradictory tho, aren't the role of the independents the most impt? isn't that what hillary is trying to do by swinging to the center -- pick up these guys who have no party and hypothetically lie therein? (it's not working).
you've created this enormous conspiracy theory in order to support your own confirmation bias, sorry, i don't buy it.
i am actually, legitimately worried that if hillary wins the nom, trump will win the presidency. there are issues that trump is addressing that hillary is not. it's not a nice thing to think about. tbh atm i feel so apathetic towards either candidate that i may writein or vote green because who wants to choose between a douche and a turd sandwich.

[upaloopa]

22. It's a moot issue since Bernie is not going to win the nomination.

I don't know why you all keep bringing is up. You can't even admit the repubs are scared shitless that Hillary will defeat who ever they run and most likely win back the Senate.

[still_one]

31. After April 27th there won't be any ambiguity

[redruddyred]

79. clearly not scared enough to nom kasich

who will definitely beat her

[still_one]

30. no, you don't recognize the falicy of national hypothetical polls, and why they are inaccurate at

this stage, along with the fact that states elect presidents, not a national poll

[redruddyred]

80. i don't recognize the term "falicy" either

cheap shot, sorry

i read your post and you made these two points
- sanders supporters are purposefully lying to make hillary look bad
- it's somehow a good thing that hillary does better when you exclude the indy vote

neither of these are strong arguments especially when the opponent is so badly hated even by those of his own party

[BlueMTexpat]

47. MD is also a closed primary

on April 27 and Hillary is very much in the lead there.

The April 15 primaries actually sealed things up tight. It's like a cribbage game where one player is "in the catbird seat" and the other is still behind the double skunk line.

The leader only needs a couple points to win; the other must not only make up the significant deficit but still score more points than the leader who only needs to score in the meantime. Given the math, the polls and the political realities, there just aren't enough turns left.

[imagine2015]

57. Except when they show Hillary leading in some poll! Come now!

[upaloopa]

20. Bernie isn't going to win the nomination so that is moot.

The right knows Hillary will beat Trump or Cruz even if you don't.

[Bluenorthwest]

56. You keep typing the same thing over and over. It's like your side is understaffed and it's boring.

nt

[BlueMTexpat]

45. Yet she already has >2.5 million votes

more than Bernie and >1.1 million more than The Donald. Go figure!

She will win against any of the current crop of GOPers, regardless of how some - on DU especially - like to skew the narrative. National polls are practically meaningless. We elect Presidents state by state.

[BillZBubb]

4. The lack of basic logic skills on the Hillary side is astounding.

It is almost comical.

[Helen Borg]

5. You know, that is why the planet is going to hell...

When the system selects for self-deceiving individuals, that is what you get.

[skepticscott]

21. Bingo!

You win the thread!

When the system rewards people who tell voters what they want to hear, instead of what they need to hear, it's fundamentally fucked.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

36. It's named after a river in Egypt.

[PufPuf23]

72. and so purposeful it is comical. nt

[TheCowsCameHome]

8. Yay! Look, the numbers are up.

Oh wait, not that one

[ChairmanAgnostic]

13. Heh.

Ha ha

HOHOHOHOHOHO!
Love it.

[Loudestlib]

12. Her positive numbers are bolstered by Democrats. That maybe good for a primary but it's terrible for

the general election.

[Betty Karlson]

48. Hillary's slogan: no matter how much you loath me, you'd loath Trump more!

It's the new version of "the lesser of two evils".

[PatrynXX]

54. no president has ever won with such low numbers

that would suggest a possible third party could come in for the win. Question is. That from the Right or the Left?

[Rex]

105. You can wish that upon a star, but I bet they find the information to be really exciting.

[turbinetree]

6. Honk------------------for a Political Revolution Bernie 2016............now's that is favorable.....

"On the Republican side, Trump scores a net negative of -33, with a favorable rating of 24% compared to 57% of voters who view him unfavorably. On the Democratic side, Clinton fares only slightly better with a net negative of -21, registering a 31% favorable rating and a 52% unfavorable rating, according to the poll. "

[Trust Buster]

7. More Hillary hate from the Sanders crowd. Can't seem to lose with dignity.

[TheSarcastinator]

9. CNN is "the Sanders crowd"???

LOL at Team Shillary's cognitive dissonance.

[Trust Buster]

10. The Sanders group are just sore losers.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

14. How can one say that you are an idiot without being rude?

How about, "you deserve her?"

[deutsey]

15. lol

[Cobalt Violet]

35. losers?

I didn't realize the primary was over.

[MrModerate]

17. Hopefully, I'm not putting on my Pollyanna hat here . . .

But it strikes me that, if Clinton is the Dem nominee, she'll be facing a type of animus that's largely unsupported by reality (she didn't, after all, shoot Vince Foster and doesn't dine on Black Folks' discarded fetuses).

She can successfully portray herself as a thoughtful, balanced, practical person, while Trump cannot.

For the great mass of the electorate, the reasons to hate Clinton are kind of theoretical, while the reasons to hate Trump are very real and very much in your face.

[chervilant]

25. hmm...

"...the reasons to hate Clinton are kind of theoretical"? Is this the rationale that Hi11ary supporters are using?

I know of several concrete reasons not to support Clinton. And, labeling "reasons to hate Clinton" as "theoretical" does not in any way negate the percentage of people who "hate" her.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

38. Jesus. we've only been talking about her negatives for months! I guess the denial is too strong.

[chervilant]

52. IMHO, it's

cognitive dissonance. It's just so hard for those who support Hi11ary to accept that their candidate is fundamentally flawed.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

95. You can say that again! (you don't really have to).

[MrModerate]

97. Who's the "we" who's been talking about Clinton's negatives?

Not the greater portion of the electorate.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

98. That's your opinion.

[MrModerate]

106. True. But do you believe that the larger portion of the electorate . . .

Is even paying attention to the General Election (and hence Hillary Clinton) yet?

[MrModerate]

96. This discussion is really more focused on the persuadable . . .

Than those who have made up their minds. Most people -- non-political-junkies -- don't have such passionate opinions about politicians generally. For them, I think it's correct to say that dislike of Clinton is "theoretical."

[chervilant]

103. Yeah, well,

you're entitled to your opinion, scientifically indefensible though it may be.

[MrModerate]

107. Hey, I wasn't offering science.

Pretty mingy to complain about something that wasn't even on the menu.

[noamnety]

61. Have to disagree here.

Trump hate is based on words and what we presume he will do as president.

Hillary hate is based on actual votes, actions she took while SoS, etc.

Clarifying that I am in NO WAY supporting trump here, but it does seem like actually creating/supporting/voting for wars that killed real people is reality, whereas bigoted speech is more theoretical - in that we presume it will in the future lead to bigoted laws or wars.

[MrModerate]

108. I disagree that Hillary derangement is based on reality . . .

She's been in public life a long time and has a long list of failures dwarfed only by her much longer list of successes. The most virulent hate is manufactured in purpose-built bomb factories or planted in the genes of the no-opposable-thumb set.

Trump's offensiveness is New! and Fresh! and Continuous! and Deranged!

He's not going to wear well facing the larger electorate.

[Trust Buster]

74. That's true. I put it this way.

Hillary's numbers are the accumulation of 25 years of Republican hate. The majority of her number are Republicans and hating her is their birthright. Trump's numbers were created in the last 6 months. Two entirely different numbers for anyone that isn't a Sanders fanatic.

[FlatBaroque]

18. Vast Right Wing Conspiracy®

[Cryptoad]

23. Seeing that Bern is 12 pts behind HRC

if i were a Bern supporter, i would wear a paper bag over my head!

[Cal33]

37. She's ahead of Bernie only because of all the unfair help she is getting. The Repubs. prefer Hillary

because they know she is easier to beat come General Election day. The Dem. Establishment
want her to win the Primaries because they believe in maintaining the political status quo the
way she does. They don't want the change Bernie has promised to bring about. And both of
these institutions have no qualms about using all the dirty tricks they can think of to defeat
Bernie.

Change is the last thing both of them want, and change is exactly the thing that the vast
majority want. Hillary may win the Primaries because of dirty tricks, but she will lose in the
General Election. The majority of the American people will be voting against her.


If Hillary wins the Primaries, the gain will go to the Repubs., and the loss will be ours. I
would love it to be wrong about this, but I don't think I'm wrong.

[Cryptoad]

40. that some heavy Logic

gop supports HRC because she would be easier to beat than somebody HRC is beating badly. Geeez. makes sense to me!

[Cal33]

64. I can give you a couple of examples: 1. DWS's crooked way of helping HRC by having very few

debates. They didn't want to give Bernie more exposure. And DWS chose most of these debates
to take place on weekends and before holidays, so that as few people would see them as possible.
2. Attempt at cheating during vote counting at Polk County. Are you going to deny these?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511477611

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

39. If I was a Hill supporter I'd double-bag incase one broke.

[crim son]

42. I remember a time when GWB had an 80+% approval rating.

I thought he was garbage, was loud about it and I was right. Why should Bernie supporters wear a bag over their head?

[Cryptoad]

43. ur on the right path

[malthaussen]

24. Neat trick, that.

Imagine the planning that must have taken.

-- Mal

[TeddyR]

26. I find these

And similar numbers from a CBS poll interesting because they seem to show (in my opinion) that Bernie wins Democrats and peels off more independents than Hillary does. Notably Bernie beats all three Republicans by larger numbers than Hillary, while Hillary actually loses to Kasich. That latter point indicates that Kasich -- who is certainly the more moderate of the 3 Republicans -- has much greater appeal to independents than Hillary. In other words, Hillary and Bernie both win Dems but Hillary struggles with independents, and as people have pointed out, Hillary should hope that Trump is the nominee. She loses to Kasich and is in a dead heat with Cruz.

[Larkspur]

29. If Kasich is Trump's VP, will that turn Ohio "red' for the Republicans?

I don't see the Repubs booting Trump from the top of the ticket, but I can see them play to Trump's vanity, as in how would he feel going down in history as losing to a female candidate? They can maneuver him to accept Kasich as his VP and it could give Repubs a shot at taking OH back from the Dem Prez candidate. The Repubs have been obsessed with losing OH and Kasich has high approval numbers in OH. If they win OH, Hillary needs to win or win most of the other "swing" states Obama won in -- NH, NV, CO, IA, NC, VA.

[Bradical79]

100. Kasich rejected the idea

Said yesterday the was a "less than 0% chance" that he would be VP for either of them. So that's good news there.

[Larkspur]

28. This will either portend a poor turnout election or a lot of people voting third party or

writing in candidates or leaving the President ticket blank on their ballots.

and this will mean that motivating the bases will be key and that could hurt down ticket races for Democrats trying to break thru in "red" states.

[laureloak]

32. Sanders capitalizes on

http://www.hillarymen.com/latest/great-american-brainwash

[Viva_La_Revolution]

66. from 2015, a blog post

[laureloak]

34. And

http://www.hillarymen.com/latest/maureen-dowd-karl-rove-anti-hillary-memes

[imagine2015]

58. Hillary is clearly the weakest candidate the Democratic Party can run against any Republican

[Viva_La_Revolution]

67. same blog, 2015, what is your point?

[bigworld]

59. I will vote for her in the general if I must. But I want to see something from her

acknowledging there even is a problem.

Unfortunately I hear many of her followers just repeating "oh, these are right wing talking points, there's no problem, nothing to see here."

There IS a trust problem. There IS an honesty problem, and it's among Democrats as well. But she's just proceeding along blithely as if the blame lies elsewhere. She needs to be asking some hard questions about herself -- and it just doesn't seem like she's doing that. And that scares the hell out of me.

[sus453]

62. Yes. In spite of

the media's crowning of these two candidates and their willfully ignoring the only viable candidate with positive ratings (Bernie Sanders), people in general have a distaste for both Donald Trump and HRC - the former because of his over-the-top fascism and the latter because she's tied at the hop with corporate interests and the fact that she'll say just anything to pander a vote.

[Else You Are Mad]

68. My biggest fear...

Is that if Trump is the nominee and goes against Hillary, he will play on the unfavorability factor (deserved or not) regarding her wall street corruption. Trump will have no qualms saying to her "Hillary, I gave you a lot of money in order to get favors from you, which you did for me.I even got you to go to my wedding, so what are you going to do for all the big corps and wall street that gave you more money than I did?" And, at that point her favorability with the left and independents will drop even further & Trumps will go up.

[Deadshot]

70. Why are they the frontrunners if people don't like them?

And look at that, Bernie is doing better than Hillary when going against Trump.

[redruddyred]

86. what an excellent question

i was just trying to explain that to an int'l couchsurfer
he begins, "americans aren't stupid, but..."
"this is stupid? it's a terrible system."

[Helen Borg]

71. The next ad for Clinton.

' Vote for Hillary Clinton because Trump sucks too'.

[BeanMusical]

76. Lol!

[imagine2015]

110. But Hillary is really well liked on Wall Street.

[one_voice]

111. Locking...

It's the consensus of the hosts this doesn't meet SoP of LBN. It's better suited for GDP. Please re-post there. Thanks.