Pope meets with Bernie Sanders, thanks him for addressing Vatican on the 'moral economy'
This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by tammywammy (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).
Source: Jerusalem Post
VATICAN CITY - Pope Francis met US presidential candidate Bernie Sanders on Saturday morning before leaving for a visit to the Greek island of Lesbos, a participant at the meeting said.
Columbia University Professor Jeffrey Sachs told Reuters that the meeting took place in the Vatican guesthouse where the pope lives and where Sanders had spent the night after addressing a Vatican conference on social justice.
The Vatican had said before the conference that a meeting was not planned. Sachs said Sanders, who was accompanied by his wife, and the pope spoke for about five minutes. Sachs, his wife and a Vatican official were also in the room.
Sachs, who has advised the United Nations on climate change, said Sanders thanked the pope for his pronouncements on the need for morality in the global economy and statements in defense of the environment.
Read more: http://www.jpost.com/US-Elections/Pope-meets-with-Bernie-Sanders-thanks-him-for-addressing-Vatican-on-the-moral-economy-451397
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KoKo
(84,711 posts)He defended the trip to reporters and a small group of supporters, who mobbed him outside the Vatican after his speech. The supporters chanted “Bernie, Bernie” and held “Feel the Bern” signs.
“I know that it’s taking me away from the campaign trail for a day, but when I received this information it was so moving to me that it was something that I could just simply not refuse to attend,” Sanders said, smiling in the afternoon sunlight.
He said he was “so excited, so proud to be here with like-minded people trying to create a just economy.”
erlewyne
(1,115 posts)That is super! Thanks KoKo!
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I think when you use the most important sense of WHY to run and what the priorities are, you can see the importance of this invitation and connection.
Word
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)to exhort the pope to change the church's bigoted stance on LGBT persons? Or did he give that a free pass?
Did he tell him in no uncertain terms that the church's stance on birth control is undermining the fight against global poverty and global warming? Or did he let that glaring hypocrisy go unaddressed?
rug
(82,333 posts)
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)Meeting to jump down the Popes throat. If only he were as righteous as you.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)to make a statement about causes that he claims are vitally important to the single person most responsible for opposition to those causes. But he refused to.
You scoff every time someone says that something Bernie proposes isn't realistic and can't be done, so we shouldn't even try. How about now? Are you going to argue that it wasn't realistic for Bernie to have publicly criticized the pope as he does so many other wrongdoers, and that playing it safe and giving bigotry and ignorance a free pass were perfectly ok?
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)And no, he should not have tried to turn it into your soapbox.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)And why you call the fight for LGBT equality a "soapbox" is a mystery. Even if you do regard it as such, it's Sanders' "soapbox" as much as anyone's.
It's called speaking truth to power. Why was Sanders afraid to do it here, when he makes such a show of it every other day of the year?
hueymahl
(2,904 posts)Now that is rich. Rich in irony. He is the ONLY candidate that is speaking truth to power. There are a thousand things he could have said to the Pope that needs changed. He focused on the topic at hand, economic inequality. LGBT rights, as important as they are, were not on the agenda. Neither were sex abuse scandals, priest pedaphillia, environmental issues, totolitarianism, gender equality, animal rights, religious freedom, atheistic concerns, GMO's, taxation, laws of the sea, pollution, etc., etc.
Which of those should he have focused on? Or should he have just gone into a 10 minute dialogue and sounded like a crazy person, not advancing any of those concerns?
Just because you hold LGBT rights as the most important thing in the world to talk to the pope about, does not mean you are correct. And just to be clear, I am a strong supporter of LGBT rights. But lets be real with each other about what is possible and what is effective given the circumstances.
thesquanderer
(13,012 posts)And when you're someone's guest, you respect your differences. It's not like either of them didn't already know the other's positions on these other things. Nor is a 5 minute conversation with the pope going to change alter the church's position. As some of his recent statements make clear, it's not like he hasn't given them thought.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)of whose "guest" he chose to be. And what his name and face were used to lend legitimacy to by association.
zalinda
(5,621 posts)
katsy
(4,246 posts)Because HRC would take him to task for positions that we disagree with?
You are being hypocritical.
But then there's this: http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/10/01/hillary_clinton_on_gay_rights_a_new_email_is_troubling.html
These pesky details demonstrate HRC's less than stellar progressive values.
Meeting with world leaders with whom a president disagrees with about some issues is how diplomacy works. Whether our president is HRC or SBS. If you don't meet in common ground... Perpetual war ensues. You know that.
But pitching a fit about gender neutral language, i.e. Parent 1 and Parent 2, on passport application forms displays a hypocrisy on HRC's part that reeks. It fucking reeks.
Stop your poutrage. You're embarrassing yourself.
katsy
(4,246 posts)to school the pope? This is the perfect opportunity for her to take the high road and scold SBS and the pope.
But behind this disingenuous poutrage you know damn well the value of diplomacy and that as a world leader, both our candidates have to work with other world leaders on common ground.
Think HRC will lock up her candidacy if she came out and evicerated the pope? As an athiest, I despise religion in all its hypocrisy, and yet find value in the pope's position about a moral economy. That's common ground. Would HRC shun working with the pope on that policy?
Hypocrisy.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I think that's what this meeting was about...
You are not the only one who doesn't care if ignorance gets in the way of what is posted. I just spotted yours.
You don't own that credo, but you spread it like butter when your issue within the larger framework doesn't quite FIT into the morality effecting everyone's life on this planet.
Tell you what... Let's crowd source you a ticket so that you can follow up with the Pope. He was on his way to Lesbos to personally reach out to some refugees there who came back with him.
WaitWut
(71 posts)Even though when he announced that he was going to the vatican he said that he didn't agree with the catholic church on those exact issues. But the church's stance on climate change and global economic conditions were too important to be ignored.
I guess he should take his five minutes with the Pope and his 10 minute speech to show the Sinead O'Conner performance on SNL on a loop. /facepalm
FailureToCommunicate
(14,606 posts)Now go back to composing whatever pout rage is next our the list.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)I have these little playground tantrums all the time when I see promoters of global bigotry, disease and poverty being coddled and kissed up to because of a well-crafted PR campaign.
You're right...I should just STFU about this and stop pouting that the pope wants to see an entire segment of the population deprived of their full human rights.
And you know what you can do with your eye roll.
1monster
(11,045 posts)that matter, and all other issues should take a back seat to yours, feel free to make a reputation for yourself on matters dear to the Pope's heart, get invited to speak at a Vatican symposium on that subject, then, when given a five-minute courtesy visit with your host, let him have it with both barrels how morally superior you are to him on these specific issues. I'm sure you will win friends and influence people (and perpetuate the perception of The Ugly American).
There is a time and place for everything. One establishes a starting place of mutual respect and agreement first before moving on to contested areas for discussion.
From what I've read, Pope Francis is the most liberal pope on LBGT and birth control issues EVER. Remember please that he is dealing with the entirety of the Roman Catholic Church hierarchy -- he does not rule unilaterally with impunity despite what many believe.
FailureToCommunicate
(14,606 posts)these issues (not this Pope). So I have a **slightly** more firm place from which to voice my thoughts on how to approach His Holiness on issues of social justice and civil rights.
Here are more eye rolls for you ..
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)skepticscott
(13,029 posts)speaking the truth to power at every opportunity. Why didn't he do it here?
And why are you arguing that he couldn't have told the pope how wrong he is diplomatically? No one ever said anything about being a dick.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)Hillary already did that when she was SoS. Well she did didn't she? Or is that irrelevant?
Perhaps the Jewish Senator should find an Ayatollah or two to chastise too while he's at it?
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)skepticscott
(13,029 posts)I certainly wouldn't be using it to lend legitimacy to the biggest bigot on the planet.
panader0
(25,816 posts)Now where's all those HRC supporters? Are they having crow for breakfast?
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)What will they do? What will they do?
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Much hilarity to ensue.
One would think that with 100s of million$ to spend, Brock would hire more competent help than the ass-clowns he did.
Old Crow
(2,268 posts)That perfectly describes the messaging of the Clinton Camp on here.
"Warm that sucker up! We've got PAGES and PAGES of pettiness and smears to disseminate today! And feces--who has the feces? We're running low on feces again, dammitall!"
~Chukka-chukka-chukka-chukka... VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!~
keylargo
(42 posts)That's the sound of the biggest suck up yet... All for what, the catholic vote? Well goodie, goodie, now they can both communicate on the Popes super secret decoder rings whenever the Pope needs the advise of the Jewish Community in Vermont.
panader0
(25,816 posts)Bernie was there to speak about economic morality, a subject near to the hearts of both men.
Do you think the Vatican did this as a campaign stop for Bernie?
keylargo
(42 posts)Although the Pope may not see it as such, I am damm sure Sanders does!!!
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Or were you squinting?
Divernan
(15,480 posts)Of course, you need to expand that to all the other folks of many religions who admire and respect this Pope. Keep on postin' your hate, Babe - just show the world the kind of person who opposes Bernie.
Do you support HRC? Cause if you ridicule Bernie, and don't come out for HRC, what are you doing on Democratic Underground?
And if you do support HRC, be PROUD of it and include that fact with every one of your posts attacking Catholics and Jews.
keylargo
(42 posts)Truth sucks don't it!
Divernan
(15,480 posts)I note you are located in Thailand. Smokin' something good are you?
keylargo
(42 posts)But you have to be pretty naive to believe a politician does not take every advantage they can to garner the vote.
And yes, I am an Atheist and dislike most religions and the fairy tales they preach! Guess I'm stuck with good old mother earth and a reality based life.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)And does your "reality based" life mean you endorse continued US policy of regime change and the massive amounts of taxes spent on maintaining the world's largest military force so the US can continue to pursue regime change. Ever taken a look at the massive devastation wrought on parts of "mother earth", i.e., Syria, Iraq, Iran, Nigeria, etc., by the U.S. backed regime change foreign policy.
In Florida today? Hangin' with Debbie are ya? She really opposes Bernie too. You guys would get along just great.
Some politicians take EVERY advantage they can to garner votes. Hillary is a perfect example. She'll take money, i.e., advantage from anyone. She even successfully groveled for the support of billionaire Dick Scaife in her first run for president. Sadly, he's dead now, so she can't suck up to him again. You remember Dick Scaife - he's the one who funded what Hillary described as the vast right wing conspiracy. Yes indeed, political contributions can make for strange bedfellows. Clintons got so tight with him, that Bill gave the eulogy for arch-conservative Scaife. Cause anyone who's a One Percenter is A-OK with Bill and Hill.
However, some politicians place limits on those individuals/groups from whom they will accept support - has it escaped your notice that Bernie's campaign is funded by small donors, like moi, with my $20 a month standing contribution. No corporate funded super PACs. There are good people in this world; there are people with integrity - and Bernie Sanders is one of them.
keylargo
(42 posts)I have been giving $25 monthly to the DNC and that's verifiable. I want as many Dem's elected as possible and I don't think Sanders has the coattails needed since he"s an Independent. PS, I also Give to H every month (retired)... What, you did'nt know all those voters in the primaries donate too? Anyway, Hillary has the moneies to crush Sanders alone and yes Super Pacs are a fact of life, get over it.
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)I am now going to put that poster on ignore.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)Because she was omitted.
Old Crow
(2,268 posts)Cynical doesn't even begin to describe it. You'd think that the only people attacking Bernie Sanders for speaking at a Vatican conference on economic justice would be Fox News right-wingers, but obviously that's not the case.
Hmm. Maybe the following joke will allow a ray of sunshine to enter that heart of yours.
Did you hear? The Vatican was going to invite Hillary Clinton to the conference--but they couldn't afford her speaking fees.
Heh. Did that do it for you? No? No? Oh, well.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)The actions of a thoroughly decent, good human being, whether the new Pope or Bernie, are like fingernails scratching on a blackboard to persons consumed by greed or others of the 7 deadly sins.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)kracer20
(199 posts)Old Crow
(2,268 posts)... I must say I had them for breakfast.
In the thread below, I was doing battle with Clinton supporters who maintained that Senator Sanders was NOT attending a Vatican conference; that if he was attending a Vatican conference, he was NEVER going to speak; and above all, he was never--NEVER--going to get a chance to meet the Pope at this upcoming "fucking disaster" (their words).
Huh. Hard to imagine how they could have gotten all that so wrong. Oh, wait. I have a pretty good idea. After all, I've read Jonathan Swift.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017352798
FailureToCommunicate
(14,606 posts)Disbelieving Hillary supporters should try this recipe. I hear it's tasty:
http://www.cooks.com/recipe/eu9p3639/crow-casserole.html
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I usually try to stay away from gloating, but with the leadup to this it's almost too much to resist.
thesquanderer
(13,012 posts)As I posted a week ago:
If they were trying to score points, they would have been better off keeping their powder dry, and seeing what would make sense to say once it had happened (or didn't). Instead it just made them look silly.
Though also, I even wonder if maybe the Pope went out of his way to make sure a meeting happened, once he was made aware of the grief Sanders was getting over possibly not meeting him. Maybe if no one had made a big issue out of it, they actually wouldn't have met. So maybe Sanders should be thankful to those critics!
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)There's a lot of at best useless, at worst counterproductive chatter going on. Of course, I'm fine with that as long as it's the other side doing it.... ;->
stonecutter357
(13,045 posts)Old Crow
(2,268 posts)
polly7
(20,582 posts)
Old Crow
(2,268 posts)... from April 9, where the Clinton Supporters were having the fantods over the upcoming Vatican visit, be sure to take a look at my post #304. That's post illustrates how absurd some of the Clinton-supporters were in that thread.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017352798
polly7
(20,582 posts)Thanks for the link. This was all SO ridiculous.
edit: Excellent post, I enjoyed that and learned a lot, thank you! http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017352798#post304
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)If I weren't already (by my request, to keep from getting in trouble) kicked out of the Hillary group, I'd ask to be after that. (I know it wasn't in that group, but I recognized names.)
Full disclosure: I'm kicked out of the Bernie group as well, for posts not even in that group. (I have no objection.... ;-> )
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)
yardwork
(69,370 posts)
FarPoint
(14,777 posts)He thanks plants for recycling carbon dioxide too...so, Bernie is in equal company with, well...plants. He too is strong on the environment.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)
blondie58
(2,570 posts)Pope Francis is a different kind of Catholic. Very open minded. Changes Come gradually.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)All that whinging from the Hillary Supporters looks pretty dumb now. XD
Also, I'm seeing quite the surge in attacks on the Catholic Church now. Hilarious.
Let's not forget what the Catholic Church has done wrong in the past of course, but the past is just that, the past. We're in the present with a great Pope who's interpreting the scripture in a much more human way than ever before. It's not perfect, but I'll be damned if it isn't progress.
So, Hillary Supporters... Love One Another.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)As we've been seeing that the Hillary supporters have been throwing mud at this from day one. And for them the whole trip is about how it will affect this primary election.
Think about it though, for the Bernie supporters, we haven't been talking about how, or even if, this affects the election. . . we are bigger minded than that.
What is inspirational about this is the ISSUE, the CAUSE, the idea that helping the poor, helping those in need, that idea is getting a world wide stage and some media attention. THAT is what is important for Bernie supporters. . .the MESSAGE. The message is breaking through.
But small minded Clinton supporters can only think about this one primary. That's why I don't think they'll win, too small minded.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)thank you so much 
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)You act like there is only one "issue" or "cause" involved here. Or that the rcc isn't just paying lip service to the cause you say is important here.
The church's stance on birth control contributes directly to the problems of poverty and global warming. It causes untold numbers of deaths from HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases. The pope and his church actively and vigorously campaign to deprive LGBT persons of their full human rights. This is what Sanders is lending legitimacy to. The only question is why.
Old Crow
(2,268 posts)If you think Pope Francis hasn't been bringing attention to moral issues surrounding the poor and disadvantaged in a way that is almost revolutionary in the history of the HRCC, you haven't been paying attention. And you want Senator Sanders, on being invited to attend a conference focusing on economic justice, to attack him?
Seems misguided and immature to me.
FlaGranny
(8,361 posts)I suppose Sanders should have demanded a whole day of the Pope's time so that he could lecture him on every subject you believe should have been discussed. Maybe it would be something like going to a birthday party to discuss every funeral you've ever been to.
Old Crow
(2,268 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Sigh....
I'm not going to post a link, upon reflection, but it can easily be seen in Latest at the time of this post.
Old Crow
(2,268 posts)One of the Clinton supporters in the thread declared that, in attending the Vatican conference, Senator Sanders was essentially attending a Third Way or DNC type meeting--you know, because she heard somewhere it was some kind of think tank. 
The mind boggles.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)That's not saying much. I have the same objections to him mentioned upthread, which is to say I object to much of the teaching of the Catholic church.
But on the topic of the conference, I think he's doing a lot of good.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)Please continue discussion here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1416779