Missile launcher that downed MH17 ‘DID belong to Vladimir Putin’, shocking report claims
Source: Express UK
The missile responsible for obliterating passenger jet MH17 belonged to Vladimir Putin's armoury, according to a sensational new report.
Experts say the deadly weapon was fired from Putin's anti-aircraft brigade before hitting the doomed plane, killing all 298 people onboard.
A team of journalists from Bellingcat have analysed reams of footage from rebel-held Ukrainian territory from the day the jet crashed and claim they have evidence of Russian involvement. They state the deadly weapon used was a BUK missile belonging to Russia's 53rd Anti-Aircraft Brigade, based in Kursk.
Identification of the BUK missile, numbered 332, was made more difficult by one of the ID numbers being removed, leading to it initially being called 3x2. The Bellingcat investigation follows on from its report in November 2014 that claimed the Russian military did supply separatists with a BUK missile launcher and that rebels were most likely to have been responsible for the atrocity.
Read more: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/666821/Missile-launcher-MH17-Vladimir-Putin-Ukraine-rebels-shock-report
Putin trolls will be posting to attack Bellingcat in 3, 2, 1....
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Joe Chi Minh
(15,229 posts)from employers' pressures....
But, but, 'Putin trolls will be posting to attack Bellingcat in 3, 2, 1....'
Say it ain't so....
TomVilmer
(1,832 posts)Little reason to even read an article, that claims Putin himself owns and delivers missile launchers. And Bellingcat's "team of journalists" are not journalists, but activists. Their last report did not prove anything, but just connected rumors into a story. I know that nice citizen journalists can and sometimes do connects dots in a trustworthy way, but Bellingcat has still a long way to go before they have earned their credibility. And that is why this is published through "newspapers" of the Express standard. You do not need "Putin trolls" to see that!
But yes, MH17 was most likely shot down by a Russian weapon, since most of the arms on all sides in Ukraine also are Russian made - though a lot of the heavy Russian stuff was built in Ukraine and Belarus. The lack of this important source of income after the switch to solitaire EU trade, is a hard blow to Ukraine. And Russia misses it too, and has now to self build more arms factories.
As for the conflict in Ukraine, I really do not care much who did that fatal shot. It is a known war zone, and the jet could have been downed by anybody, including from east of the border. It was a very stupid mistake, also for civil jets to fly above there. The guilt can be shared among local politicians and their wild gangs in uniforms, who has divided the territory together, making life for local citizens a daily hell. Russia's actions, when the West tried to evict their naval base. EU's stupid and offensive interference. And USA supporting yet another proxy war.
And yes, as leader of Russia, Putin has a big part of the blame for the continuing conflict. But Bellingcat has in no way come close to prove, that Russia shot down that jet - or even just provided the bullets for that gun.
braddy
(3,585 posts)Putin's invasion, and Putin's weapons, he even had the investigation hindered.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)Putin has supported the rebels in the Eastern Ukraine, it appears he has supplied them food (Which Putin admits doing), small arms and ammunition. Putin has admitted that Russian Volunteers had join the Rebel forces, but DENIES any actual Russian units have fought in the Ukraine.
The BUK Missle system (NATO SA-11, the improved BUK is NATO SA-17) is a medium range missiles, but can be tied in with higher echelon Radar Systems. Such Higher echelon Radar would have the capacity of determining the Passenger Jets was a Passenger Jet but the Radar on the BUK launcher would NOT have that capacity. The BUK missile system is a mobile system with its own radar and missile system. It can operate and fire on its own independent of any higher echelon Air defense System it may be part of.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system
The BUK missiles that shot down the aircraft appears to have been a model the Russia Army itself phased out several years ago, but the Ukraine still had when the Eastern Ukraine went into revolt. Thus the most likely situation was the BUK missile had either been captured by or its crew defected to the rebels. The BUK missile seems to have been effectively used in the days before it was used on the passenger jet. Radio recordings of the time period indicate that when the Missile was fired the people operating the missile thought they had an enemy plane on their radar, only after the plane crashed did they learn in was a civilian plane (and they were shocked by that discovery). NO BUK missiles were fired afterward, and given the firestorm over the shooting down of the passenger plane, it appears Russia told the Rebels to turn the BUK over to them (The system may have been out of missiles but that time period, the system only has 4 missiles ready to launch (But can carry four additional missiles which can be loaded within about 15 minutes). The BUK had been used against military targets in the days before the downing of the Passenger jet, thus the missiles may have all been fired after the Passenger jet was hit. Even the Pentagon believes the Missiles was fired in the belief it was aimed at a military target (i.e. a Mistake).
Thus the best explanation was this was a BUK missile whose crew defected from the Ukrainian Army. When it was used in the previous days, Russian (and it is believe American radar from Ships in the Black Sea) saw the missiles being fired at military targets. On the day the passenger jet was hit, the Russian Radar (and the American Radar) saw it the missile go up and hit the passenger jet. The US and Russian radar system knew the passenger jet was a passenger jet and this caused panic not only in the Rebels ranks, but inside Russia. It was decided that the BUK system was to dangerous in the hands of the rebels and they were told to turn it over to Russia, probably in exchange for other supplies (i.e. Arms and Ammunition and even a few tanks). The shooting down has been a political football ever since, with Russia (and thus Putin) wanting the incident to die away, while US keeps pounding it as a sign of Russia's aggressive intent.
Thus it appears that the death of those Civilians appears to be the result of the Rebels REFUSING to be ruled by the present Government of the Ukraine, for the Eastern Ukraine is a Russian Speaking Area and the present Government has adopted a policy of opposing such speech in the Ukraine (and that appears to be the reason the Crimea Government which was semi-independent Republic within the Ukraine, voted to leave the Ukraine and join Russia, it is another Russian Speaking area).
People forget the borders of the former States of the Soviet Union had been made by Stalin when he was working for Lenin. The intention was to given each nationality its own state within the Soviet Union, but also to have enough Russian Speakers who would keep those Countries within the Soviet Union. Post WWII, the Ukraine received a huge part of Ukrainian speakers who had pre-WWI had been part of Poland. In 1954, Khrushchev shifted the Autonomous Republic of the Crimea from the Russian Federation to the Ukraine (Khrushchev was Ukrainian and this appears to be an effort to show the people back home the advantages of supporting Khrushchev AND as an adjustment by adding more Russian Speakers to the Ukraine after the huge increase in Ukrainian speakers post WWII).
Today the Ukraine has two population centers, the Eastern Ukraine and the Western Ukraine with a drop in population in the center of the country except for the Capital Kyiv (Ukrainian spelling Kiev Russian spelling when both languages are transliterated from the Cyrillic Alphabet to the Latin Alphabet). This is one of the reason for the Ukraine not being able to suppress the Eastern Ukraine. It does not HELP that Kharkov (In the Northwest) and Odessa (in the South East) have huge Russian Speaking minorities and thus have extensive sympathies to the Eastern Ukraine. Both Kharkov and Odessa are NOT in the rebel controlled areas but given the population of both areas, would support the rebels if the rebels ever took over either areas (i.e. Ukraine holds both areas, but can NOT recruit from either area for both areas have sizable population the do NOT support the present Government of the Ukraine. The locals who support the Rebels are NOT strong enough to take over either areas, but that means the Government of the Ukraine MUST keep police and troops in both areas to keep them in the Ukraine. That would also be true of the Rebels if they took over either areas, for both areas also have large Ukrainian speaking population, thus both areas can be viewed as "Neutral" in the present conflict, but if one side or the other would prevail, both areas will go with the prevailing side. The Ukrainian and Russian Speaking groups in both areas tend to cancel each other out).
Given who controls what in the Ukraine, Putin's plan for a Ukrainian Federation may be the best plan possible. It would give the Eastern and Western Ukraine what they both want, connections to the EU for the Western Ukraine and to Russia for the Eastern Ukraine AND at the same time maintain the Ukraine as one nation. It is a workable solution but so far no one but Putin has supported it. The Eastern Ukraine will have to agree if Putin tells them so, but the Western Ukraine wants to defeat Russia and have all of the Ukraine for itself. The Radical Western Ukraine just do NOT what to cut a deal, but some sort of compromise will have to be worked out, so the present crisis will fester for years.
braddy
(3,585 posts)people in the passenger airliner.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"But no, he did not!"
You of course, can support your allegation with objective evidence, yes?
TomVilmer
(1,832 posts)Please give me any kind of link, supporting that Vladimir Putin has missile launchers in a private armoury 
fred v
(271 posts)I'm not defending Putin: I think Russians did indeed shoot down the plane. But that's an odd newspaper headline!
mahatmakanejeeves
(57,304 posts)Again, so soon?
That's called "metonymy."
bemildred
(90,061 posts)
happyslug
(14,779 posts)Shep was a sheep dog working for a Shepherd out of For Benton Montana. One day his master died. Shep had been waiting outside the Hospital, when their took the body to the train (it was in 1936). Shep watched the train pull out of the station and even chased the train but after a while had to give up. From 1936 till 1942 he would meet all of the trains to see if his master would return. People tried to catch him but he manged to avoid them, but they did feed him. He was already old in 1936, by 1942 he was very old and appeared NOT to hear the train that killed him as he once again went to meet the passenger train.
http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/4367
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shep_(American_dog)
The only known Photo of Shep:
The Complete Photo:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201004/loyal-dogs-wait-north-american-version-greyfriars-bobby
http://www.fortbenton.com/shep.html
His Statute in Town:
The original statute by the tracks:
bemildred
(90,061 posts)With you to the end.
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)To those who are not paying attention.
Putin is a thug; a throwback to the oligarchs of the 19th century or more-modern thugs in South America. Basically a gangland killer who runs a country.
We appear to have a choice of two of those this election, one orange and short-fingered and one with a voice that sounds like nails on a chalkboard.
question everything
(47,435 posts)Bradical79
(4,490 posts)Very odd way to phrase it, like this missle was from Putin's special personal stash.
daleo
(21,317 posts)Right....
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)The Daily Express is tabloid trash. When you see a newspaper telling you something is 'sensational' in the first sentence it just means it's a slow news day. In fact any media story that tells you how you're supposed to feel about the information therein can safely be dismissed as bullshit.
