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Judi Lynn

(160,527 posts)
Wed May 4, 2016, 06:25 PM May 2016

Duggar cult founder plans Kansas ‘retreat’ to set up arranged marriages for teen girls

Source: Raw Story

Duggar cult founder plans Kansas ‘retreat’ to set up arranged marriages for teen girls
Vyckie Garrsion
04 May 2016 at 17:56 ET

. . .

A group of ultra-conservative Christian men are planning to meet up in Kansas later this year to arrange marriages for their pubescent daughters … and they don’t believe their daughters’ consent is actually necessary.

Quiverfull patriarch, Vaughn Ohlman, who runs a website promoting early, “fruitful” marriage for Truly True Christian™ children, has announced plans for a “Get Them Married!” retreat where fundamentalist fathers will find, and TAKE, suitably submissive young brides to bear many babies for their adolescent sons.

The weekend retreat, which will be held in Wichita this coming November, is “designed to bring together like-minded families (and their unmarried young men and women) who are committed to young, fruitful marriage and to help them overcome the barriers which have kept their children unmarried.”

For around $1200 per family, Quiverfull parents will spend three days “networking” with similarly-delusional zealots who believe men are to be in charge, wives are to be submissive baby-makers, and children are to be sheltered, isolated, indoctrinated, and pushed toward early, prolific marriages for Jesus.


Read more: http://www.rawstory.com/2016/05/duggar-cult-founder-plans-kansas-retreat-to-set-up-arranged-marriages-for-teen-girls/



[center]http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5535bc74e4b06063c34e14dd/55984f0fe4b059a64f905c18/5598512ae4b01a6af58ec207/1436046010894/LDJ_9221+(1).jpg

Vaughn Ohlman

[/center]
The Betrothal of Joshua and Laura

It is with great joy in the mighty blessing of the Lord that we, the undersigned, in obedience to God do Covenant or Witness thereto that:

Joshua Phillip Ohlman

and

Laura Marie Camp

Are this the 23rd day of August, 2013 bound in the sight of God and man in the unbreakable Covenant of Betrothal; are now husband and wife to each other; and await the blessed day when they will come together physically.

In this covenant we bind ourselves or our children to the following:

A lifelong continual sexual union in which the body of each spouse belongs to the other.

A union which shall be ever open to the blessing of children; and where the children shall be raised in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

A union in which the husband shall love his wife, as Christ loves the Church; washing her in the water of the word.

A union in which the wife shall love and respect her husband, love her children, and keep the home; helping raise her children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

A union, under Christ, with the husband as its head, the wife as his submissive helpmeet, and the children bound in obedience to their parents.

We make this Covenant with the following purposes and goals:

That fornication may be avoided by the God given use of the marriage bed.

That a Godly seed may be raised up.

That the word of God be not blasphemed.

That God’s command to be fruitful and multiply, replenish the Earth, subdue it, and have dominion over it, may be obeyed.

That the relationship between Christ and the Church may be reflected.

That, above all, God may be glorified.

What God has joined together let not man put asunder.

In testimony and covenant thereto the following set their names:
_____________ __________________________

Andrew Camp Vaughn Ohlman

Father of the Bride Father of the Groom

Who gives his daughter Who takes a wife for his son

More:
http://vonstakes.blogspot.com/2013/08/the-betrothal-of-joshua-and-laura.html
42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Duggar cult founder plans Kansas ‘retreat’ to set up arranged marriages for teen girls (Original Post) Judi Lynn May 2016 OP
I wonder what the "barriers which have kept their children unmarried" are. Brickbat May 2016 #1
Statutory rape laws are barriers Vincardog May 2016 #12
Is that what he's referring to? Brickbat May 2016 #18
The lifestyle the children wish to lead is at the top of the list jmowreader May 2016 #20
Jesus wants them girls to be baby makers .... so saith the Lord Botany May 2016 #2
This sounds like sex trafficking. Scruffy Rumbler May 2016 #3
One of the Duggar boys is, I am fairly certain, gay. LibDemAlways May 2016 #8
It's statistically likely n/t TexasBushwhacker May 2016 #17
Are the families getting paid $1200 as the price for their daughters, or are they paying it muriel_volestrangler May 2016 #4
Thus far the Duggars have somehow LibDemAlways May 2016 #5
don't these asshats know we will be running out of water and food in 20-30 years? secondwind May 2016 #6
creepy shit Marrah_G May 2016 #7
Back to the 50s. Barefoot and pregnant and ignorant. The jwirr May 2016 #9
Girls got married young back in the 50's, but they generally Arkansas Granny May 2016 #11
Replace "Christian" with Muslim, and send post it on Free Republic or Facebook NickB79 May 2016 #10
Well at least it's being referred to as a 'cult' milestogo May 2016 #13
Tell that to a Scientologist! I've heard they get really cranky. n/t Judi Lynn May 2016 #32
Damn, that 'covenant' is sickening... Aristus May 2016 #14
Yeah that's some sick crap. These people are crazy. rockfordfile May 2016 #15
Horrifying. Odin2005 May 2016 #16
Also in the OT you can rape a virgin exboyfil May 2016 #19
This opinion/analysis piece doesn't belong in LBN. PSPS May 2016 #21
As if we didn't have enough problems here in Kansas BuelahWitch May 2016 #22
This seems, to me awoke_in_2003 May 2016 #23
Excellent, unexpected imagery. I'm sure you're right! Thanks. n/t Judi Lynn May 2016 #29
You're welcome, Judi Lynn. nt awoke_in_2003 May 2016 #34
this is beyond creepy, sick, twisted and disgusting. I know what I would like to do with those niyad May 2016 #24
Couldnt of put it better myself........ Old Vet May 2016 #42
Ugh, Vyvkie and RawStory? No wonder this story is clickbaity crap. LeftyMom May 2016 #25
right--fundies are characterised by idolatry of The Almightly Fambly and jettisoning any theology MisterP May 2016 #26
What You Need To Know About The ‘Quiverfull’ Movement Judi Lynn May 2016 #27
She certainly is qualified to speak on the subject. Judi Lynn May 2016 #28
She's 100% wrong three words in. The Duggars are Gothardites/ATI, their cult leader is Bill Gothard. LeftyMom May 2016 #30
It comes with a pitch for money, then? Oh, well! Judi Lynn May 2016 #31
It's a common misunderstanding that Quiverful is a group. It's really not, it's a belief. LeftyMom May 2016 #33
Amazing so much insanity can be packed into a single lifetime for these guys. Judi Lynn May 2016 #35
I have the ATI text around somewhere. LeftyMom May 2016 #36
I was raised under Gothardism. Currently, all my materials are with my therapist. Coventina May 2016 #39
ugh Sharia Law - American Style jpak May 2016 #37
Thanks for making me lose my breakfast. sinkingfeeling May 2016 #38
This is but one colony of a perverted world-wide "mission" akin to spiritual eugenics by a bunch of bobthedrummer May 2016 #40
This makes my skin crawl. (nt) apnu May 2016 #41

jmowreader

(50,557 posts)
20. The lifestyle the children wish to lead is at the top of the list
Wed May 4, 2016, 08:30 PM
May 2016

For most people, "I want to get pregnant/get you pregnant on our wedding night, then have another baby every 15 to 18 months until menopause and I won't compromise on this" would end the relationship instantly. But that is what Quiverfull calls for.

Botany

(70,504 posts)
2. Jesus wants them girls to be baby makers .... so saith the Lord
Wed May 4, 2016, 06:33 PM
May 2016

If this isn't child abuse I don't know what is. You believe in a Deity, fine get on w/your own
bad self but that does not give you the right to act like a Deity and tell and or make others
live like you do .... full metal asshole.

Scruffy Rumbler

(961 posts)
3. This sounds like sex trafficking.
Wed May 4, 2016, 06:37 PM
May 2016

Grown men gathering to make plans for their UNDERAGED children to have "legal" sex. Child protective services should be advised.

These poor kids. How many are LGBTQ?

This makes me queasy.....

LibDemAlways

(15,139 posts)
8. One of the Duggar boys is, I am fairly certain, gay.
Wed May 4, 2016, 06:51 PM
May 2016

They paired him up with a young woman for a "courtship" but it didn't work out. I can't even imagine how awful it would be to have to deny who you are in order to have the support of your family who are convinced being gay is a sinful choice.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,314 posts)
4. Are the families getting paid $1200 as the price for their daughters, or are they paying it
Wed May 4, 2016, 06:44 PM
May 2016

to advertise them to possible buyers?

LibDemAlways

(15,139 posts)
5. Thus far the Duggars have somehow
Wed May 4, 2016, 06:47 PM
May 2016

managed to keep 18 of their 19 kids firmly in the fold. The oldest Josh is the molester, porn addict, and philanderer they recently sent away for Bible based therapy. Good luck with that. I hope eventually one of the kids will have the courage to break free and take others with them. As it is, girls are basically the property of their father until he finds and turns them over to a "Godly" young man to secure their future as baby factories. The boys are kept on a short leash, too. It has to be a hellish existence.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
9. Back to the 50s. Barefoot and pregnant and ignorant. The
Wed May 4, 2016, 06:53 PM
May 2016

vows are not all that different than most marriage vows of that day. As to the age of the two in the picture - they look old enough to get naked in the back seat - marriage or no marriage.

What I predict will come of the marriages arranged in this style: some will actually work. But most will not. The couple will have a couple of kids before they realize that they are not compatible. Or one or both will find someone else. Or the young girl will grow up and become a woman who thinks differently about who she is. Or even worse there will be abuse in the marriage and the abused person will suffer the rest of their life.

THAT is what happened to the traditional marriages during the 50s. By the 60s many had already ended in divorce and the women and children were living in poverty because back then dead beat dads did not get chased by the courts for support and welfare was a subsistence living.

exboyfil

(17,863 posts)
19. Also in the OT you can rape a virgin
Wed May 4, 2016, 08:25 PM
May 2016

and just pay dad for her hand in "marriage".

Family values.

Also if the young woman is not of the Tribe you can slaughter her entire family and take her hand in "marriage".

niyad

(113,302 posts)
24. this is beyond creepy, sick, twisted and disgusting. I know what I would like to do with those
Wed May 4, 2016, 10:32 PM
May 2016

perverted "fathers"

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
25. Ugh, Vyvkie and RawStory? No wonder this story is clickbaity crap.
Wed May 4, 2016, 10:33 PM
May 2016

First of all, Vaughn Ohlman is not the Duggars' cult leader. Their cult leader is Bill Gothard. Whatever their flaws are, none of their kids were married underage.

Second let's talk about the context here, because it's important: this particular slice of fundamentalism has been talking for years about what they term "the marriage crisis." Basically the issue is that they deliberately raised their daughters in particular to aspire to be mothers of large families, and they're reaching adulthood and not finding suitable partners, often until well into their thirties. Which is a problem if you want a big family, because the math just doesn't work at that point. Different people in their communities identify different contributing factors, and a lot of them are focusing on mentoring young men. Personally I suspect that their emphasis on debt-free living is a big part of the problem: if you need to buy a house to get married and you can't take out a loan, you're unlikely to be marrying young because you need to make some serious money even to buy a little fixer in most places.

Third Ohlman's argument is that young men are ready to be husbands before they're ready to be the independent leaders of their own family unit, and that if they need to live with family for a while on their own or something that's not a dealbreaker. If you look at his website he's talking about people in their late teens and twenties. He's explicitly not talking about people younger than the end of puberty. What he's rejecting is "leave and cleave" theology where marriage means a couple is entirely and irreperably independent of their families: since this theology places abused women in danger and traps them in bad situations (ie Anna Duggar) this might not be the worst thing. He also suggests that ruling out young people because their family's ideology is very slightly different is stupid. In a subculture where it's not uncommon for dads to make young men write many theological position papers as part of the courtship process that's also not objectionable advice.

Fourth and most importantly every fundamentalist activity is explicitly a place for matchmaking. That's why they have eleventy billion conferences and parachurch ministries, and why they're forever sending their teenagers and young adults off to assist other ministries, why they all emphasize hospitality and visiting likeminded families, and why highly experienced families with older children still attend several homeschooling conferences a year, even though they could recite the speakers' advice from memory.

Fifth and most importantly Vyckie Garrison is a crank and writing articles about fundamentalism for liberals is her latest grift. Take her articles with a box of salt, okay?



MisterP

(23,730 posts)
26. right--fundies are characterised by idolatry of The Almightly Fambly and jettisoning any theology
Wed May 4, 2016, 10:43 PM
May 2016

that could possibly contradict it: it's not even allowed on their radars

Judi Lynn

(160,527 posts)
27. What You Need To Know About The ‘Quiverfull’ Movement
Wed May 4, 2016, 10:45 PM
May 2016

What You Need To Know About The ‘Quiverfull’ Movement

 05/26/2015 06:43 pm ET

Antonia Blumberg 
Associate Religion Editor, The Huffington Post


[font size=1]
ASSOCIATED PRESS
[/font]
“19 Kids And Counting” stars Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar found themselves in the spotlight for dark reasons this week after reports surfaced that their oldest son, Joshua, molested several young girls, including some of his sisters, during his teenage years. With 19 children, the Duggars are frequently associated with the “Quiverfull” movement — a contingent of conservative Christians who shun contraception — though Michelle and Jim Bob have said they do not formally consider themselves “Quiverfull” Christians.

Even if the family doesn’t openly embrace the ideology, their lifestyle mirrors many of its core principles. To remind you exactly what the movement is all about, here are a few key facts you should know:

The name comes from a passage in the Bible.

Psalm 127 states: “Children are a heritage from the Lord, offspring a reward from him. Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are children born in one’s youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them. They will not be put to shame when they contend with their opponents in court.” A quiver, in the old English sense of the word, is a case for holding arrows.

Many couples in the movement believe God won’t give them more children than they can handle.

Families that follow Quiverfull ideals refrain from using contraception, believing that it is only God who “opens and closes the womb,” as adherent Kelly Swanson told NPR. Another adherent told BBC in 2013 that her husband “saw it wasn’t such a scary thing to do after all, and that God wouldn’t overwhelm us with more than we could handle. One baby at a time arrived, and we were handling it, so we felt our marriage was being blessed by this choice and we continued.”

More:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/26/quiverfull-movement-facts_n_7444604.html

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
30. She's 100% wrong three words in. The Duggars are Gothardites/ATI, their cult leader is Bill Gothard.
Wed May 4, 2016, 11:27 PM
May 2016

They're Baptists, they used to home church and for the last few years they've been at least loosely affiliated with Cross Church, which is a Baptist megachurch in their area. From looking at his blog it appears that Vaughn Ohlman is definitely a Calvinist, probably Presbyterian, and that he's a devoted follower of Rousas K. Rushdoony. He definitely can't be their cult leader because they're not even members of the same cult.

While it's easy for people who aren't overly familiar with american fundamentalism to confuse the two groups and they do share some overlapping beliefs (notably quiverful theology) they're not the same religious group at all, they're not even theologically similar.

And again, the Duggar kids who have married were all definitely adults. Literally the only reason to include them is as clickbait.

Vyckie's kind of a crank. Her story changes over time, she throws her own children under the bus, the only details that stay consistent was that absolutely nothing was her fault and she'd like some money now thank you.

Judi Lynn

(160,527 posts)
31. It comes with a pitch for money, then? Oh, well!
Wed May 4, 2016, 11:44 PM
May 2016

Had never heard of her or the Quiverful group (the name nearly makes me gag) until seeing that article.

Had never heard of the Gothards, either, of course.

I wonder if the country could use some more cults.

Thanks for the information.

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
33. It's a common misunderstanding that Quiverful is a group. It's really not, it's a belief.
Thu May 5, 2016, 12:20 AM
May 2016

It tends to be associated with several different parachurch ministries, so people of many different denominations believe in it. For that matter it's not really all that different then what traditionalist Catholics believe about reproduction, but they tend not to use the term.

Bill Gothard is a total creep. Here's a little more info about him and ATI: http://gawker.com/the-creepy-fundamentalist-homeschool-cult-that-trained-1706969994

Judi Lynn

(160,527 posts)
35. Amazing so much insanity can be packed into a single lifetime for these guys.
Thu May 5, 2016, 01:30 AM
May 2016

I do remember hearing of a connection between Bill Gothard and the Duggars during their awkward days when their problems with their creepy son were revealed.

Their approach to teaching is astonishing, when it's so wildly stupid.

[center][/center]
Wow, oh, wow, oh, wow.

There is some serious sickness among these people.

Thanks for this look. They are far dingier than I could have ever imagined, and they are committed to their craziness.

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
36. I have the ATI text around somewhere.
Thu May 5, 2016, 01:38 AM
May 2016

Actually I think it might be at another DUer's house, but I should get it back from her and post pics and scans. It's the craziest thing, a big tacky faux-leatherbound thing with gilt pages and a ribbon to mark your place, but then you open it up and it's a consumable textbook? The only way to describe it is to say it appears to be a book produced by people who have only a passing familiarity with books.

Coventina

(27,119 posts)
39. I was raised under Gothardism. Currently, all my materials are with my therapist.
Thu May 5, 2016, 09:56 AM
May 2016

Until the Duggar scandal broke in the news, I had no idea they were connected to Gothard, but it sure explains a lot.

Another funny thing, I never put all the pieces together to realize how Gothardism actually WAS a cult. I just thought I was unlucky enough to be raised by extreme fundy parents. But, understanding that it operates like a cult, things that I could never understand about my childhood and my ongoing struggles to overcome it makes so much more sense.

It's hard to overcome mental programming when you don't even realize that you've been brainwashed in the first place.

I'm glad this group is finally getting the scrutiny it deserves.

 

bobthedrummer

(26,083 posts)
40. This is but one colony of a perverted world-wide "mission" akin to spiritual eugenics by a bunch of
Thu May 5, 2016, 12:42 PM
May 2016

evil creeps-Pharisee's American Style. The New Apostolic Reformation spawned many cults. K&R.

New Apostolic Reformation/NAR (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Apostolic_Reformation

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