Feds Crack Down on E-Cigarettes Industry

[Cassiopeia]

Source: Fortune

E-cigarettes and other tobacco products, like hookahs and cigars, are going to be treated just like cigarettes, the U.S Food and Drug Administration (FDA) announced Thursday.

Under the finalized rules, e-cigarette manufacturers will have to seek FDA marketing approval for their products, and sales to minors under the age of 18 will be strictly prohibited. (A few states have permitted sales of e-cigarettes and vaping products to minors.) Under the new FDA rule, vaping and other tobacco products will also have to carry warning labels about nicotine’s addictive properties.

“We have more to do to help protect Americans from the dangers of tobacco and nicotine, especially our youth,” said Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Sylvia Burwell in a statement. “As cigarette smoking among those under 18 has fallen, the use of other nicotine products, including e-cigarettes, has taken a drastic leap. All of this is creating a new generation of Americans who are at risk of addiction.”

Critics immediately pounced, tarring the the FDA rule as regulatory overreach that will put many small vape shops out of business. Conducting the studies required for FDA approval can be quite costly, meaning that Big Tobacco e-cigarette makers like Imperial Tobacco (which owns the hugely popular blu e-cigarette brand) and Reynolds American (owner of VUSE e-cigs) would likely gain a significant advantage over smaller manufacturers under the regulations.

Read more: http://fortune.com/2016/05/05/fda-e-cigarettes-cigar-tobacco/

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As an ecig user I'm glad to see this. I've cut cigarettes out completely using an ecig and expect to drop the ecig itself in the next few weeks. So far I've found it to be a very effective tool to taper off my tobacco use.

However, I've always been disturbed by the lack of any controls within the industry. It can be a challenge to find out exactly what is in the products.

[Feeling the Bern]

1. I am so against this. If Americans want to get an addiction, let them. It's our life

Why not regulate red meat for heart disease, fast food for obesity. . .when does it stop? Speed limits are another one.

When did Government become our mothers?

[Hotler]

2. " Speed limits are another one."

That's fucking funny. Are you okay with someone on a sport bike passing you on a double yellow in a corner at twice your speed? If so I'm all for it, no speed limits.

[Feeling the Bern]

12. I said speed limits, not crossing double yellow lines

Considering I drive a Camaro z28 when I am back in the States. . .I don't think they will happen.

MY car runs better at higher speeds. Yes, I am against mandatory speed limits and seat belt laws. If someone wants to be unsafe, let them. If they cause injury to someone else, then charge them for the injury. But pre-emptive laws are pathetic.

But if you like your police state where a cop can pull you over for victimless crime, by all means, enjoy it.

[christx30]

20. So where do you stand on the ACA

and the individual mandate to have insurance?

[Feeling the Bern]

24. I think it sucks. Never liked the ACA. I've lived in two countries with single payer plans

and would rather have that.

But Americans are too brainwashed with socialism = evil to understand how single payer works.

[KittyWampus]

22. So drive your car on a freaking track. I have step-family who work in professional racing...

nothing to good to say about poseurs playing speed racer on the streets.

I also have step-family in emergency response… who get to pick up the pieces from guys who think their cars drive better fast and need to prove something on streets/highways.

[Feeling the Bern]

23. I don't street race, but if I can control my car doing 90 on an open freeway with little to no

traffic, speed limits are pointless.

My brother wanted to street race my Camaro. . .I told him to go to hell.

[bobalew]

29. fine, just don't make me one of your victims when you screw up. Self immolation is just OK for you,

Not me. And Just don't make any decisions for anyone else on the road....That is the major cause of accidents on the highway, absolute arrogance, of someone who thinks they are outside & not bound by basic safety law.

[Feeling the Bern]

32. No problem. I haven't killed myself yet. And most accidents, according to the DOT, happen within

15 minutes of the beginning of driving.

I could screw up doing the speed limit in Arizona too, which is 75. What is your point?

We should all drive at a snail's pace?

[lancer78]

28. No thanks

I don't want higher insurance rates for morons who don't wear seat belts. And how is someone who wants to be unsafe pay for an injury they cause if they only have $1,000 in the bank?

[Feeling the Bern]

33. Victimless crime. We love victimless crime in the USA.

[Mojorabbit]

43. Just an aside to your comment

Are you saying you would give up freedoms for a cheaper monthly bill? Not just talking about this particular example?

[CreekDog]

25. Apparently you think it's unfair to you to prevent children from buying e-cigarettes

we've tangled before. enjoy your stay, surprised it's been this long.

[brett_jv]

49. There's a YUUUUGE difference in restricting e-cigs sales to minors ...

as that's something EVERYone is for ... including every vaper I know ... and regulating them in ALL other ways as though they're actual tobacco cigarettes.

THAT is f***ing bullshit ...

[Baclava]

3. Complete bullshit regulation! They WANT BIG TOBACCO and now BIG VAPE - fuck the FDA!!!!!

Big tobacco losing too much money now that vaping is on the rise so the tobacco lobby buys legislation to keep the tobacco plantation royalties flowing.

complete horseshit

[brett_jv]

50. You got it buddy ... 100% agree ...

I was easy to see it coming though ... given that it's so easy to disguise the real purpose with claims that it's 'for our own good'.

All they're going to do is push people to buy their juice from overseas on the web. The gear is already from there, and I imagine they're not going to regulate the sales of vaping equipment like tanks and mods (if they do, that's REALLY gonna be bullshit). But they're just gonna push the mom&pops out of the business of making e-juices, and I don't think a purely equipment-based shop is gonna survive, as the juice is where the $ is at for these shops.

[Baclava]

66. Don't forget big pharmaceutical companies losing out too...all those drugs that don't work

All losing out to a little start up industry that works.

Can't have that, no siree bob - CALL OUR DONORS! CALL OUR LOBBYISTS!

[EL34x4]

4. Did people really think the government...

...was just going to roll over and give up all that tobacco tax revenue without even putting up a fight?

[awoke_in_2003]

44. Yet they won't legalize marijuana. nt

[Ruby the Liberal]

5. Whats in the batteries?

Because those are being regulated too, not just the vape liquid.

This is going to put a lot of people out of business - with the exception of big tobacco, who will pimp their shitty non-refillable pretend "eCigs" as they will be the only ones with the pockets deep enough to pay the fees for device approval.

This will hit the MMJ industry as well as the devices work both ways.

[Cassiopeia]

7. The batteries need to be capable of high drain demands.

Using a battery that is not designed for the use that today's mods need can lead to dangerous consequences. Having a battery explode in your face would probably ruin your day.

[Ruby the Liberal]

8. And this is an FDA problem?

People save a few bucks by putting the wrong batteries in a mod and the FDA now regulates batteries?

[jmowreader]

19. I hate to do this, but...

google "exploding e-cig battery." I don't want to post the photos here of what can happen if a battery explodes in your face, but it's brutal.

[Travis_0004]

54. Yes it is

But if you use good batteries its perfectly safe. I cant imagine too many battery manufacturers going through fda hoops to be certified for ecig use, when that makes up 1% of their sales volume.

[jmowreader]

56. The e-cig companies would be the ones to certify the completed assemblies

I can't imagine e-cig use being close to one percent of the sales volume of any battery manufacturer, but it's 100 percent of the sales volume of Joyetech or Shenzhen Kanger.

[Travis_0004]

59. yeah

I thought most took an 18650. I dont vape, and I relize the small ones would take something smaller.

[beevul]

61. Use the wrong battery under the hood of your car, and it might explode too. N/T

[bobalew]

30. getting lithium batteries from the lowest cost supplier

is just basically asking to get exploding units. They are essentially small bomb if they fail. Seen plenty of failure returns by people who bought the wrong replacement battery. Not a very pretty result.

[OhioChick]

6. Sick of this Nanny State BS n/t

[Mnpaul]

9. I agree

Liberty has become a foreign concept in America.

[metalbot]

10. This isn't nanny state BS

It's the Tobacco industry lobbying to stay relevant (under the guise of nanny state BS).

[OhioChick]

11. True..

As I stated earlier, it sounds to me like Big T is lining the "right" pockets.

[Marrah_G]

13. People should look into making their own E-juice

It's very inexpensive

My only issue with all this is that it will put truly small businesses out of business and everything ends up taken over by big corporations.

[Cassiopeia]

14. That may not be the case at all.

Those small businesses will just be selling a product that has quality controls. There are small tobacco shops all over the US selling a well regulated product.

Any small business that can't survive with consumer protections in place is probably not a place you want to be shopping anyway.

[Marrah_G]

15. I just don't trust lobbyists and congress people.

[Cassiopeia]

16. That's the catch 22

We can trust the corporations and LLC's even less.

[Doremus]

36. Small shops will have to sell approved products

Just coincidentally made by huge tobacco monopolies designed to rake in highest possible profits for CEOs aka 1%ers. Business as usual. Corporatists win/consumers lose.

[brett_jv]

52. Yes, but those shops are not MAKING the tobacco they're selling. The mom & pop ecig shops ARE ...

And yet I've heard of 0 cases of people becoming ill from 'bad' e-juice.

It's not rocket-science, the e-juice ingredients are well known: At minimum Food-Grade (but often Rx-Grade) Vegetable Glycerin. Rx-Grade Propylene Glycol. Rx-Grade Nicotine (optional). And they add various food-grade flavorings.

So the flavorings are really the only 'unknown' ... so the fair thing is for the Feds to come up with a reasonably cheap way to get licensed to make the base-stock PG/VG/Nic mixture (something similar to a liquor license would be very reasonable), and then regulate what flavorings are allowed to be used and in what concentrations, and let the people who are licensed to create juice ... to create them, using approved flavorings.

THAT ... would be fair and reasonable. But THAT ... ain't what's gonna happen. They're going to create a situation where ALL e-juices are made by BIG MONEYED interests, by making the licensing prohibitively expensive, specific to EACH INDIVIDUAL mixture/product. YOU WATCH, that IS the goal here. The only juice we'll be able to get will be made by Reynolds, Philip Morris, etc. And you can damn sure bet we'll pay a HUGE premium both for the Brand to profit, AND in 'tobacco' taxes ... even though this is NOT TOBACCO, nor is it 'smoking'.

[beevul]

62. Read the FDA regs....

That may not be the case at all.

Read the FDA regs. They read as if designed to do precisely this:

"put truly small businesses out of business and everything ends up taken over by big corporations."


Its a gift with a bow, to big tobacco/pharma.

[beevul]

17. These rules are a GIFT to big tobacco...

These rules are a GIFT to big tobacco, because eventually, big tobacco will be the only entity that can afford all the red tape and expenses.

Nice going, puritans.

[RobinA]

38. Agreed

I've been vaping for two years and have come to do business with several juice entities that I really enjoy interacting with. I doubt they will survive this tobacco company welfare legislation.

[phazed0]

18. Vapingwithtwisted420

Pardon some language in the video, other than that Twisted420 up until recently used to run a vape shop and has done tons of reviews and whatnot.. here he sums up my thoughts.

The FDA wants to Destroy Vaping -The Ball is Rolling - VapingwithTwisted420

[KittyWampus]

21. except many don't use tobacco.

[jmowreader]

26. How many "small vape shops" are actually making e-cig devices?

I know they make liquid in-house, but how many are manufacturing their own batteries? I bet, if any at all are doing it, it isn't very many. The relative handful of companies making hardware are large enough to get their new products certified without going bankrupt in the process.

Seriously guys, some of y'all sound like Republicans Fighting Gun Control. "If the FDA requires e-liquid manufacturers to prove what's in their juice, Thousands Of Small Businesses Will Fail! Oh Noes!"

What will PROBABLY happen: a chemical company will invent and take through FDA testing an E-Juice Base. It'll be a mixture of PG, organic VG, distilled water and pharmaceutical-grade nicotine in various strengths - 6mg, 12mg, 18mg and so on. Because it will be standardized and FDA approved, anyone will be able to buy it for a reasonable price, flavor it, bottle it and sell it without additional FDA approval - AND without having to keep pure nicotine, one of the most dangerous things on the planet, in their buildings. The juice-making companies will get it in drums; vape shops will buy it in gallon jugs. Random testing of vape shops' offerings will discourage shop owners from "spiking" their juice with added nicotine to make it sell better. They'll also have little Surgeon General Warning stickers for shops to put on their own house-made brews.

I am not sure if you know this, but RJReynolds' Vuse e-cig's juice has 48mg nicotine in it. That's A Whole Unfiltered Camel in Every Puff territory...and it's not listed on any of the packaging. Someone really needs to do something about that shit.

[Cassiopeia]

31. Thank you

I am truly shocked by some of the replies here, but I've learned this season being a Democrat no longer means what I thought it did.

[Feeling the Bern]

34. And mine is 6mg and it is listed on the box.

[Cassiopeia]

41. And there is nothing to force that box to be labeled correctly.

This will help to make sure what the packaging claims is true.

[Feeling the Bern]

46. Same could be said for FDA labels. But don't let your rabid non-smoking ideas

prevent you from realizing that FRAUD is still actionable in court and if they mislabel or lie and it is discovered, they can be hauled into court and lose their business license among other things.

[Cassiopeia]

47. My rabid non smoking ideas.

Yeah, I want to quit smoking and I've been doing very well using ecigs.

Yes, I want the government to regulate the product I've been using to quit standard tobacco. I would like to KNOW what I'm using.

Fuck it though, I'm a rabid non smoker though.....Not a 21 year 2+++ pack a day habit smoker that wants to be done with it for good.

[Budgies Revenge]

45. The problem is

that every flavor, nicotine concentration, and base for e liquid is treated as a separate entity by this regulation. If, for example, you have a vape shop that makes 10 different flavors, each flavor is available as a PG base or a VG base, and each of those flavors comes in 3 different nicotine strengths, that shop must submit 60 separate applications for approval. This is a very conservative example. Most of the stores I've seen offer way more combinations than what I've listed. The days of local shops making their own in-house juice are effectively over--which is a shame, since I buy all of my juice from local stores.

[brett_jv]

53. THat's on top of the fact that most shops will make you whatever PG/VG ratio you prefer ...

You want 90VG/10VG ... they make it for you. You want 50/50 ... they make it for you. Then there's the flavoring strength: You want 1x,2x,3x flavor strength? They make it for you. And most shoppes around here in AZ offer like 100-250 in-house flavors. Then there's the concentrations of nicotine, usually in 3mg or 6mg increments, so 0, 3, 6, 12, 18, 24mg.

So ... there's at least 10 commonly preferred VG/PG ratios. 3 flavoring strengths. 200 flavors. 6 nicotine strengths ... at a decent vape shop that makes their own e-juice. 10x3x200x6 = 21,600 permit applications.

Somehow, this whole system ... HAS BEEN WORKING FINE. But now, for some reason (derp ... all the $$$ that big tobacco is losing) .... this is all just SO DANGEROUS IT MUST BE STOPPED!!!1!!1!

Even though nobody has once TTBOMK shown INJURY ... from the 'system' as it's working now. Other than the cigarrette brands, of course

[GOPblows431]

27. Smart move IMO

Ecigs can still be harmful if abused.

[Feeling the Bern]

35. Anything can be harmful if abused, even food. What is your point?

If someone wants to abuse themselves, let them. IT's their body and their life.

[Cassiopeia]

42. I stand with that statement.

My life, my body. However we should have standards and protections that inform us of exactly what we're using.

[RobinA]

37. So....

you used an e-cig to get off cigarettes but no one else can? What if you relapse? I got off cigs using an e-cig and now use the e-cig rarely and probably wouldn't have to at all. Been smoke free for two years. However, I have no illusions about never getting caught up again and would like to know the e-cig continues to be available. Just the thought of e-cigs going away makes me want to reach for a cigarette.

[Cassiopeia]

40. I still use my ecig

and hope to stop soon, but I'll keep it around if the craving ever gets crazy or like you say I go into a full relapse.

However, I also want to see some standards put into place regarding the products I'm using. Chinese made e juice could have anything in it and there are currently zero controls on labeling. Some do, some don't and in the end we must trust the label is correct.

[brett_jv]

55. Well, there's your problem right there ...

WHY ... are you buying chinese-made E-Juice when there's mom & pop companies, GOOD AMERICAN PEOPLE for the most part, based on all the folks I've ever met ... who are making good quality e-juice all over the place nowadays? I know a few shops that make your juice right in front of you or will let you go back and watch them make it through the window of their clean-rooms.

[Cassiopeia]

63. Just because they mix it in front of you

Doesn't mean the shit they're mixing didn't come from China.

[Sunlei]

39. I thought all nicotine products were regulated/taxed.

[brett_jv]

57. Don't believe that nicotine-containing cessation products are taxed like tobacco ...

[Travis_0004]

58. including tomatoes?

[metalbot]

48. Related opinion piece

Opinion piece by Boston University professor of public health, arguing that this is terrible policy, for a variety of reasons.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-fdas-vaporous-thinking-about-e-cigs-1462487690

A couple of choice quotes:

"[T]he FDA seems bent on blocking what might have been one of the most substantial public-health victories of our lifetimes."

"And if improving public health is the goal, why is the FDA regulating e-cigarettes more stringently than the real tobacco cigarettes that are killing more than 400,000 people each year—while e-cigarettes have helped hundreds of thousands of smokers quit over the past five years? Because cigarette-makers don’t have to submit burdensome and expensive applications to stay on the market, the FDA has in effect protected them from competition from a product that could have cut their cigarette sales in half."

[brett_jv]

60. Behind the pay wall, wish I could read it ... there's another you can read about a UK study w/o sub

UK seems to 'get it', at least at the level of the top health officials:

"Substituting electronic cigarettes for tobacco is beneficial to public health and should be encouraged for current smokers, according to a report from the U.K.’s Royal College of Physicians.

The report, released early Thursday morning in the U.K., rejects several safety arguments marshaled against e-cigarettes in recent years. It argues that smoking tobacco is so deadly that any small potential risk from long-term e-cigarette use is outweighed by their lifesaving effects.

Among the report’s conclusions are that e-cigarettes aren’t a gateway to smoking tobacco for current nonsmokers and that they likely lead tobacco smokers to try to quit regular cigarettes when they otherwise wouldn’t.

“This report lays to rest almost all of the concerns over these products, and concludes that, with sensible regulation, electronic cigarettes have the potential to make a major contribution towards preventing the premature death, disease and social inequalities in health that smoking currently causes in the U.K.,” said John Britton, director of the U.K. Center for Tobacco & Alcohol Studies at the University of Nottingham, who chaired the panel responsible for the report."

I was able to read that one with just a login.

[metalbot]

64. Weird

It wasn't behind a paywall when I posted, but following the link I posted it definitely was.

I definitely don't pay for WSJ...

[metalbot]

65. You can get to it via google

If you search for "the fdas vaporous thinking about e-cigs", first link will be accessible w/o paywall.

[MichiganVote]

51. Well, let's face it, most lawmakers are too stupid to handle climate change...

there are too many of them that are whores for corporations and besides all that, its for the children you know. Beats funding food stamps and adequate public education for them you know.