Catholic hospitals reject birth control compromise

[Eugene]

Source: Associated Press

By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR Associated Press
Updated: 06/15/2012 12:36:26 PM PDT

WASHINGTON—Sharpening an election-year confrontation over religious freedom and government health insurance rules, the nation's Catholic hospitals on Friday rejected President Barack Obama's compromise for providing birth control coverage to their women employees.

The Catholic Health Association was a key ally in Obama's health care overhaul, defying opposition from church bishops to help the president win approval in Congress. But the group said Friday it does not believe church-affiliated employers should have to provide birth control as a free preventive service, as the law now requires.

The hospital group's decision calls into question a compromise offered by the president himself only months ago, under which the cost of providing birth control would be covered by insurance companies and not religious employers. While churches and other places of worship are exempt from the birth control mandate, nonprofits affiliated with a religion, such as hospitals, are not.

In a letter to the federal Health and Human Services department, the hospital group said the compromise initially seemed to be "a good first step" but that examination of the details proved disappointing. The plan would be "unduly cumbersome" to carry out and "unlikely to adequately meet the religious liberty concerns" of all its members, the group said.

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Read more: http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_20866384/catholic-hospitals-reject-birth-control-compromise

[progressivebydesign]

1. they hate birth control because it messes up their white baby supply for their adoption agency. n/t

[WingDinger]

5. Um, most of their power in the world, is brown babies.

They have quite a lot of brown peoples as lifelong, contributing members. Catholicism is largely a South American institution.

[robinlynne]

21. umm. South America has white and black , just like North America does.

[Dont call me Shirley]

2. The catholic hospitals/charities need to be given NO MORE government dollars!

[WingDinger]

6. Those gov dollars are payoff to treat all comers.

Take that away, and you would have a fight to end getting help if you reach their front door. Our system is fucked up, and that workaround is not fair to them or any hospital. That any dumbass winger thinks that an unfunded mandate is the proper way to run our acute healthcare says all you need to know.

[liberalnationalist]

10. shut down the catholic health system

as far as i know running a hospital is not a religious right in America...

[WingDinger]

18. While that might feeel good, it would lead to a at least temp disaster.

[glinda]

22. There are Rehab and Nursing Facilities that call themselves

"Catholic" in name only really and they only have "borrowed the name of an Order" and are supposedly non-proft. Not. The whole Religious affiliation thing in any health care should be seriously re-examined for tax and other purposes.

[du_grad]

35. I am a non-Catholic working for the Catholic Health System

I am way past the age where I have to worry about birth control coverage. I work with many younger women where this could be an issue, however. I have worked at Catholic hospitals for most of my working career. No attempt was ever made to convert me, I can assure you. Other than listening to a prayer every night over the loud speaker, there's nothing overtly religious about working there. However, the mission of the hospital is stressed all the time - to take care of the underserved and poor. They do a fantastic job at it, too.

Catholic hospitals probably provide more charity care than any other health system in the US. I know that my hospital provides more in our city than any other one. It is their mission, and without their mission, many many people would have no health care.

I feel that there should be a workaround for this issue. However, religion is a belief system that, in this case, doesn't seem to provide a workaround. I have absolutely no idea how this is going to end up.

FYI, I believe that Catholic health systems is the 5th largest health system in the US, so they have LOTS of clout.

[MrModerate]

41. And my (secular) taxes help support that mission . . .

A mission that's not intrinsically religious anyway, but simply humane. This is the (male) leadership of a cult in retreat from modernity trying to win a battle with their own parishioners that they lost two generations ago.

I remember some quote from the Catholic operating manual about "rendering unto Caesar . . ." that seems painfully obvious here. To the degree that their institutions intersect with the secular world, the Catholic leadership is going to have to suck it up, just like their founder instructed them 2,000 years ago.

It's like abortion: if you object to abortion, don't have one; if you think contraception is a sin, don't use it.

[immoderate]

3. The hierarchy broke them.

--imm

[geardaddy]

4. If that's not an argument for Single-Payer, then I don't know what is. n/t

[liberalnationalist]

12. it is a great reason for single payer

but you know the catholic bishops will still scream...why because now tax dollars are going to birth control....but what we should say to them
is them and their NAMBLA...the catholic bishop North American Man/Boy love Association should just go f themselves and we ought to stick this tax payer bill right on the steps of Prick Raw Money and the republican party

[geardaddy]

19. +1 million

Love it.

[Volaris]

59. Yep. If doing it the HARD way is just too, well, HARD,

then you should be the first in line to back the REALLYREALLYREALLY EASY way. As for the "religious liberty" concerns, your freedom to practice YOUR faith does NOT extend to being able to enslave others to your beliefs. If YOU don't want to take a FREE script for birth control, then by all means, DON'T. But don't tell ME that I'm not allowed because it offends YOUR sense of Moral Righteousness. ESPECIALLY if YOU aren't the one being required to foot the bill for it.

Religious Freedom is about MY freedom to tell YOU to take your Moral Righteousness and go do obscene things to yourself with it. (This second part is what the Bishops apparently can't get through their thick heads.)

[RoboNerd]

7. Really? "Religious Freedom"?!? I'm not buying it.

Since when is it "freedom" to give a powerful group like the Catholic Church the "freedom" to prevent people who have grown up in its fold basic human rights, such as controlling reproduction? Heck, or just easing the suffering of severe menstrual cycles for that matter. Or all the other things that 'birth control' pills do besides birth control.

I've been an atheist for over a decade. In that time, I've never felt the desire to stamp out religion. That is, until the last year or so.

It's very difficult to watch: these peddlers of falsehoods spread misery. Then they bitch and moan about how oppressed they are when the expected backlash occurs. Then they use that backlash to further reinforce their "the world is evil and against us" paradigm that every other cult has used since the dawn of time. It's such a classic line of every cult; why do people not see through it? It's so transparent.

[Warpy]

8. They might be church owned, but they're still businesses

and need to be disabused of the notion that they retain the same rights an actual church building does.

Religious freedom doesn't include bullying people who don't share your dogma into following it, nor does it include cheating people out of health care that they're paying for because you think parts of their bodies are icky doodle.

[JoePhilly]

9. Q: Why do Catholic Bishops reject birth control?

A) Because they find that condoms reduce their pleasure.
B) If we can't have sex, you can't either!!!
C) Birth control reduces the supply of little boys in the parish.
D) All of the above.

[liberalnationalist]

11. D

but espccially C

[JoePhilly]

51. If this was on the SATs, it would say "Which of these is the BEST choice" and so ...

C would be the BEST answer.

[magical thyme]

13. instead of providing health insurance, they should increase their employees pay

so that they can buy the health insurance package of their choice. And their pedophile rapist priests can get all the viagra they want for free and everybody can live happily ever after.

My teaparty sister recently went on a rant about Obama disrespecting the 2000 year old religious tradition and blah,blah,blah. Apparently she adopted the catholic church via her husband and in-laws and now is in-your-face religious-nuts in the way that reformed smokers are sometimes religious-nuts about the evils of cigarette smoke. I wish I'd thought to suggest that to her, since her complaint was heavily laced with "IT'S ABOUT CHOICE! IT'S ABOUT CHOICE!" because I'm pretty sure that faced with providing real "choice" to their employees, they'll freak out. It's not about choice; it's about contraception and control of women.

And they have a lot of fucking goddam nerve trying to claim any high moral ground even as they protect their pedophile rapist priests.

[hue]

17. "It's not about choice; it's about contraception and control of women."

"And they have a lot of fucking goddam nerve trying to claim any high moral ground even as they protect their pedophile rapist priests."
Yes this is right on!!

Even during an emergency C-section a Catholic hospital has to get special dispensation from the local bishop in order to tie or take diseased fallopian tubes or uterus out. So if the bishop is busy "doing" his alter boys the emergency team must wait until he calls back to make the decision or leave the diseased parts in, or go ahead against the bishops wishes etc...

[Dawson Leery]

31. Please send your sister this message from me:

"I am NOT a Catholic. Since I am NOT a Catholic, I do NOT show respect, nor deference towards this foreign (hostile) state. No person of ANY religious affiliation will have ANY say over my health needs or otherwise."

[Peregrine Took]

14. No great loss. I've never heard of a good one. n/t

[tsuki]

15. Good. Get that superstition out of medical care. nt

[LynnTTT]

16. Then they lose government funding. Simple

And the same with universities that take federal funds. Again, if you don't believe in contraceptives, don't use them. But contraceptives are a legal and necessary medicine for women and they have the right to receive it under their health plan.

[FreeBC]

23. I concur. Respect people's rights or don't take the free money.

[4th law of robotics]

25. That seems fair.

As long as *we* are paying the bills *we* get to set the rules.

Don't like it? Tear up the checks then.

[maddezmom]

42. agreed n/t

[glinda]

20. They need to go to "leeches' also.

[4th law of robotics]

24. All Catholics are forbidden to use birth control, so the Pope really should favor its widespread

use.

Non-catholics would not have as many kids. Catholics will have more. Eventually Catholics win.

That is, unless they don't think their flock is being loyal and following their orders.

[goclark]

40. They are stupid if they don't know

that Catholic women use Birth Control.

They know but this is their last stand ----

They need to be put in jail for what they have done to Little Boys ~ just realized when they focus on Vaginas that takes the focus off of the Little Boys.

http://www.romancatholicwomenpriests.org/

[Volaris]

60. What Rome SAYS we should do, and what actually happens (in America, at least) are 2 different things

We go to church, listen to the rules of Vatican Law, nod our heads in agreement because we understand the SPIRITUAL reason for the law to exist, and then we all go home and take our birth control pill, because, mostly, we're smart enough to understand the difference between the TEMPORAL and the SPIRITUAL realities our lives. That Vatican Hierarchy has yet to catch up with the enlightenment of the rest of us, is, for the most part, considered to be THE VATICAN'S problem. At, least, this has been MY experience of what is happening in talking to my fellow RC's about subjects like this.

[4th law of robotics]

64. I was a being a bit tongue-in-cheek

I think the overwhelming response from the Catholic Church on this issue (pushing laws rather than simple papal decrees) proves that they are quite aware that their flock isn't following this particular order.

Maybe some are but the vast majority clearly are using birth control despite what some former hitler youth (low blow, I know) living in Rome with a bunch of single dudes (who all dress fabulously!) tells them on how to have a proper family.

[HockeyMom]

26. They would rather see women die

that do an abortion to save her life. Been there, had that done to me. Women are disposable baby making machines to them.

[hue]

27. So sorry You had to go thro that!! You are so true!! n/t

[Dawson Leery]

29. I am sorry to hear that, though not suprised.

I have a card in my wallet which states that I am NOT to be admitted into a Catholic Hospital.

[Dawson Leery]

28. Eliminate all government subsidies/payments to Catholic Hospitals.

The same rule must apply to the universities too.

For the record, once again: I have a card in my wallet which states that I am NOT to be taken to a Catholic Hospital.

[daaron]

30. Associated Press: All the Newspeak that's Cleared for Popular Consumption. nt

[DallasNE]

32. "unduly cumbersome"

They need to explain as I can see no difference in administration.

What these male Bishops want is the government enforcing Catholic doctrine. They are afraid that Catholic women in larger numbers will use birth control if it is provided free by the insurance companies and so be it if non-Catholics are swept up in the web. What the Bishops are demanding is clearly unconstitutional as it violates the establishment clause of the 1st Amendment.

[Volaris]

61. Catholic women ALREADY use birth control in larger #'s than Rome would like to admit....

They're bitching about planting new trees in the forest, and don't realize they're standing in the middle of the Kansas fucking Prairie. But you're right about "unduly cumbersome". I also would like to know what EXACTLY they mean by that.

[Jake2413]

33. I say F__k'em

Every health care provider should have to provide ALL health care procedures to everyone or get out of the business and let someone else take over. I'm sure others would step up and fill the need.

[brendan120678]

43. That's silly. Not EVERY health care facility has the ability...

to perform or provide ALL health care procedures to everyone.

Would you expect a small, 50-bed facility in the middle of nowhere to be able to perform open-heart surgery, brain surgery, or some other complex procedure?

[Jake2413]

44. I think you are over reading my statement

No, I don't think a pharmacy should preform surgery but they should dispense all drugs not just the ones they want to. But if a facility is capable and staffed, trained to do a procedure you can't say I don't believe in that so I won't do it. Did they take an oath to heal? So heal.

[SylviaD]

34. Well I can see the anti-Catholic bigots are out in full force on DU. Shame. n/t

[MrModerate]

37. Any religion that wants to suck at the public teat . . .

— While retaining the option to behave in a purely sectarian manner — should expect a loud chorus of criticism.

What I read here is not anti-Catholic so much as it is pro-society. No one is saying that Catholic institutions that don't benefit from public money and aren't entagled in secular affairs have to follow the larger society's rules. But if they are, they do.

[_ed_]

38. Well I can see the anti-woman Catholics are out in full force on DU. Shame

Sorry, but I don't care what that old, gruesome bigot you call a Pope has to say on any issue, or any of his pedophile-enabling bishops. If it's bigotry to criticize a sexist church that enabled child rape on a worldwide level, then I guess I'm a bigot.

[Odin2005]

46. If being against a bunch of misogynist child-fuckers makes me a "bigot"...

...then I'm a bigot.

They are screwing people over in the name of a backward, misogynistic religious doctrine. Fuck them.

[SylviaD]

48. Do you even know what a doctrine is?

Do you know anything at all about my faith except what you hear in the press? What in the world makes you an expert on my religion? Perhaps you can quote for me some of the "misogynistic religious doctrine" you feel Catholicism has. As a woman I would be very interested to hear it.

[christx30]

55. Not to jump

On you, but the concept of original sin, and Eve's fault we were kicked out of Paradise. There are lots of stuff in that faith that are anti-woman. Lots of stuff about controlling women. Read FR sometime. they are very catholic. And very anti woman

[waddirum]

58. The Catholic Church was vehemently against women's suffrage throughout the world

Not to mention the torture of witches and general witchburning in the 17th and 18th centuries. Here is some art depicting these times:

[_ed_]

66. I grew up Catholic

Can women be Priests, or hold any other position of leadership? Don't make me laugh that Catholics are not sexists. You are second class in your own faith.

[MrModerate]

36. OK . . . if they want to forego every red cent of public money . . .

So they can maintain the purity of their (insert adjective of choice here) beliefs, that's fine.

Except when they're in long-term contracts with the government ("no waiver for you&quot or occupying publicly-funded facilities (sorry, non-Catholics also paid for that), or expect to be reimbursed for uninsured emergency room patients that charity and law prevent them from turning away.

Oops! I guess that decades-long push to corner the hospital market comes with a few strings. They should have thought of that before they tried to operate in a secular society that doesn't care to fund their cult's teachings.

[_ed_]

39. I care what Catholics think about birth contol just about as much

as I care what they think about raping children and covering it up.

[SylviaD]

50. We believe it's a horrible tragedy...

..and those responsible have been/will be found out and punished. And we also believe that no earthly punishment can match what is waiting for them after death. But please do not judge the many by the deeds of the few.

[Occulus]

52. You have had decades.

Time's up.

As for me, I'm gay- I damned well know your faith out and out wants me dead.

You'll never get anything but opposition from me.

[SylviaD]

56. You are wrong, no one wants you dead!!! n/t

[Occulus]

63. Care to explain these?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=758803
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002742655
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101730230

edit: this shit is becoming common, so I can easily find more if you still think "nobody wants (us) dead".

Starting to understand the hostility now? Care to DO something about it? Or are they just "not christians"?

[LeftyMom]

67. That would be why the Church is so pro-condom, right?

Oh wait, they're not, and their opposition to STD prevention has killed uncounted millions.

[_ed_]

65. I'm judging the many for providing money to the few in the collection plate

I have nothing but contempt for those who claim membership in a systematic, decades-long child rape ring. Has the hierarchy thrown Mr. Dolan out yet? How about Mr. Ratzinger? They didn't promote him to a higher position of leadership, right?

I don't believe in any post-death punishments, so I'd prefer that they just do hard time now.

[HockeyMom]

45. Catholic Hospital the only Hospital in town

where I used to live. The people in the town fought the selling of this hopital to the Catholics, precisely because of their anti-birth control and sterilization stance. The local police department took rape victims to the state hospital in another town because this Catholic hospital would not give a rape victim the Morning After Pill.

I heard from a lot of women who complained that they wanted their tubes tied after giving birth, but this hospital wouldn't do that. Some of them changed doctors because they were only affliliated with this one hospital. They had their babies in a neighboring non-sectarian hospital. The last I heard was that the hospital was talking about TOTALLY shutting down their maternity ward because not enough women were going there.

If you aren't a Catholic, or for the majority of Catholic women, why would you want your health subject to the anti-choice, anti-woman religious teaching of this church?

[Odin2005]

47. Cut off all federal money to these ***holes.

[SylviaD]

49. There are ***holes in the church, that's true. Also some of them on DU. n/t

[Occulus]

53. Yes. people who defend and are part of an organization which

goes out its way to make women and gay people miserable and which tries to make them second-class citizens at every turn ARE ASSHOLES.

So glad you agree.

[LeftyMom]

54. If you're so unhappy here after 56 posts try the X button at the top right hand side of your browser

Nobody's making you post here.

[SylviaD]

57. I've been here since 2008. n/t

[LeftyMom]

68. Nobody's making you stay. Since we're all anti-Catholic bigots and all,

we're clearly not worthy of the pleasure of your company.

[SylviaD]

69. This is why I lurk and read, instead of posting. n/t

[HockeyMom]

62. This is why the "compromise" will never work for the Catholic Church

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/vatican-cardinal-if-catholic-employers-provide-contraceptive-coverage-1

They want all PRIVATE employers who are Catholic to be able to deny contraceptives to their employees. You will have to follow the religion of your EMPLOYER. They talk about their right to freedom of religion, but only THEY have freedom of religion? Hey, boss, what is YOUR religion??? I have to know if I am the same religion as YOU because your religion now trumps MINE!!!!!!

Just imagine the absolute NIGHTMARE that would cause, besides being outright illegal?