States Dig In Against Directive On Transgender Bathroom Use
Source: ASSOCIATED PRESS
BY JONATHAN DREW AND PAUL J. WEBER
Associated Press
RALEIGH, N.C.
Politicians in Texas, Arkansas and elsewhere vowed defiance — and other conservative states could follow suit — after the Obama administration told public schools across the U.S. on Friday to let transgender students use the bathrooms and locker rooms that match their gender identity.
--CLIP
One by one, conservative political leaders thundered against it and President Barack Obama.
"This is the most outrageous example yet of the Obama administration forcing its liberal agenda on states that roundly reject it," said Mississippi Republican Gov. Phil Bryant.
The guidance was issued just days after the Justice Department and North Carolina sued each other a state law requiring transgender people to use the public bathroom that corresponds to the sex on their birth certificate. The law applies to schools and many other places.
Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-world/national/article77417542.html
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Loki
(3,825 posts)Pull conventions, championship games, companies pull headquarters, etc, etc. It needs to start with a national boycott. I'd like the MLB and NFL to pull their teams. That might get their attention.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)
muntrv
(14,505 posts)EL34x4
(2,003 posts)As states try to make up for the loss in federal tax dollars.
razorman
(1,644 posts)to influence the state's educational system. This could eliminate the public school systems in some states.
mnhtnbb
(31,382 posts)up--after Eisenhower used his power to integrate schools-- to use executive orders to push for equal
rights for another segment of the population based on a decision from the Supreme Court--marriage equality in this case?
The problem is the South has never acknowledged losing the Civil War. They've never agreed that
the equal rights guaranteed by the Constitution apply to ALL states and ALL people and the good 'ole white
boy bunch doesn't get to decide who gets what rights.
They're all FURIOUS that this uppity black man is telling them what to do, because, by God,
the Bible and Jesus and protecting women and children!
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)I can and will imagine a number of possibilities, but when I am done with that I must admit that I will be looking at products of my imagination rather than their stated objections.
Seems much of this is about not accepting transgender as a real self-identity for some people. When conservatives start from the premise that a trans-child has something wrong and dangerous about them they can't get to a place where a trans-child would be not-dangerous and more rightly in the toilet/shower room of the gender they identify with.
radical noodle
(8,000 posts)Relates to grade and high schools, primarily the showers in the locker room. Most are open showers and the entire body is exposed. So you may have a girl who is physically male in the girls' showers and/or a boy who is physically female in the boys' showers. I'm not sure how good that is for anyone, even the transgender kids. I have to say that I wouldn't want my transgender daughter in the boys' shower room. I don't know if things have changed any, but we rarely had adult supervision in the shower room when I was a kid.
Yes, our society is way too shy about bodies, but the childhood/teenage years are full of all sorts of stresses about one's body anyway. I'd like for someone to explain how it might work satisfactorily.
I'm quite open to the bathroom thing. I'm sure there have been transgender folks using the bathrooms of the gender they identify with for a long time with no (or little) problem. I would love to hear a rebuttal about the shower issue because I've come up blank.
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)Lets say the high school football team and cheerleaders finish practice at the same time. The football players all head to the girls locker room. What is the rational basis for stopping them? What if they say "we all decided we self identify as women today"? Well, what does a woman look like? Or act like? By what basis would a school administrator say "sorry fellas, but its time to head back to the boys locker room."?
Yes, an extreme example, but what would the counter argument be?
Response to philosslayer (Reply #9)
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EL34x4
(2,003 posts)The Obama Administration used Title IX to argue the reason behind this policy.
OK, so why stop at bathrooms? What's preventing someone from self-identifying as a particular gender to play on a college sports team or apply for an athletic scholarship?
I'm troubled by what appears to be a knee-jerk reaction to a not particularly pressing issue that was not thought through very well. There could be many unintended consequences to this policy.
sinkingfeeling
(51,445 posts)
Calista241
(5,586 posts)60 Minutes did a story recently about a Harvard student athlete swimmer transitioning from female to male.
Because of the testosterone he takes as part of the transition, he would have dominated the women's times in the the events. He ended up being in last place or next to last in the men's events.
When a male transitioning to female starts setting new world records, consuming female scholarships, and crowding out female athletes, some parents and students are going to raise holy hell about fairness.
EL34x4
(2,003 posts)Will they be dismissed as bigots and transphobic?
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)
One_Life_To_Give
(6,036 posts)Just look at those football players and; We are going to do you a giant favor. You get Free Castration and then can go right in.
Or we might ask which ones are wearing Bra and Panties under their uniform. The poor kid who tried to remove his bits with a pair of nail clippers is going to be receptive to the above and probably does many girly things just out of sight in the years prior to going public. It's Constantine for years and not subject to changing Whims like the weather.
The perv, drunk etc. who just wants to enter a ladies room for a possible glimpse etc. is not going to demonstrate that consistency which an actual person struggling with gender identity will. Ask those football players to dress and behave like their female peers for a week or two before giving them gradual admission to female spaces. They are not going to stick with it.
Alternatively offer to quickly remove their male parts and see who's face lights up and who reflexively trys to defend the tender bits.
EL34x4
(2,003 posts)...summed it up the best.
I will try to put it a little more politely.
Some parents simply do not want their teenage daughters showering with biological males, regardless of gender identity.
This is going to be a hard sell in some places and labeling all concerned parents as bigots I do not think is the best tact.
It's probably going to be a moot point. It is my understanding that teens don't really shower with each other in the open after gym class these days like us Gen-Xers and Boomers experienced.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)EL34x4
(2,003 posts)It is what gender they identify as that is the only criteria.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)WITS, parent's are afraid that trans-kids are thinking what the parents would be thinking in that situation
One_Life_To_Give
(6,036 posts)A real trans girl is going to be horrified at the thought of anyone potentially seeing their offending bits. So one they are going to hide. But also many will be starting hormone blockers which are sometimes referred to as Chemical Castration when used on sexual predators. It's probable that a T-girls naughty parts will not function properly nor will they be experiencing the hormonal drive that we associate with teenage boys.
LiberalFighter
(50,888 posts)Sure there are some transgenders but I don't think many schools will have it as an issue. Those that do would I think would be dealing with how many students? One, two, maybe three?
And for those schools that might have a transgender what will they have to do other than allow that student to use their restroom. Do they now require students to take their clothes off when they go into the restroom? I didn't know that girls don't have privacy when they need relief. Maybe that is part of the Republican austerity program.
For locker rooms that should still be a minor inconvenience. Could states provide an exemption from PE if the student doesn't want PE? If the student wants PE as part of their schedule it should only require a letter from the doctor confirming the gender change.
Maybe instead of getting all in a huff about it they should discuss it as adults first.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)Was there trouble in public bathrooms across the nation?
I'm also kind of troubled by this kind fiat by extortion. Would we like it if a President Trump tried the same kind of tactic to get his agenda advanced?
Yupster
(14,308 posts)Is this really a federal issue?
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)Midnight Writer
(21,745 posts)With all the uproar over the bathroom issue, school districts across the country were contacting the Feds wanting to know their legal obligations.
The Administration therefore sent out an advisory, not a directive, of their interpretation of Title 9 in regards to gender questions in public schools. It clearly spelled out that the law allows for no discrimination on account of sex. The law states that Federal funding for public schools may be withheld from schools that are not in compliance. The advisement states these facts.
Non-compliant states are claiming that gay, lesbian, bi-sexual and trans gender issues are not based on sex. To them, the sex of a person is determined at birth and documented by the gender on their birth certificate.
These issues will undoubtedly end up in a Federal Court that will interpret the reach of the law. In the meantime, the only threat to withhold Federal funding is in situations like North Carolina, where they have passed a law specifically targeting GLBT folk.
former9thward
(31,981 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)olddad56
(5,732 posts)
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,338 posts)A shower-room in a high school is likely one big room with a dozen or so shower heads. No partitions, curtains.
And, as I remember, "comfort" was never a goal of the conversations. Not in the shower room I used. Maybe the other shower room was more polite.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)Just secede, idiot bigots. PLEASE.
sinkingfeeling
(51,445 posts)the population have zero understanding of what transgender even means. Asa probably couldn't identify a trans woman if she were standing next to him.
