Mon May 16, 2016, 12:45 PM
kadaholo (296 posts)
Navy Allowed to Kill/Injure Nearly 12 Million Whales, Dolphins, Other Marine Mammals in PacificThis discussion thread was locked as off-topic by mcar (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum). What if you were told the US Navy is legally permitted to harass, injure or kill nearly 12 million whales, dolphins, porpoises, sea lions and seals across the North Pacific Ocean over a five-year period? It is true, and over one-quarter of every tax dollar you pay is helping to fund it. A multistate, international citizen watchdog group called the West Coast Action Alliance (WCAA), tabulated numbers that came straight from the Navy's Northwest Training and Testing EIS (environmental impact statement) and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's (NOAA) Letters of Authorization for incidental "takes" of marine mammals issued by NOAA's National Marine Fisheries Service. "It is outrageous to think that humans have quantified all of the impacts their actions cause to the marine environment." A "take" is a form of harm to an animal that ranges from harassment, to injury, and sometimes to death. Many wildlife conservationists see even "takes" that only cause behavior changes as injurious, because chronic harassment of animals that are feeding or breeding can end up harming, or even contributing to their deaths if they are driven out of habitats critical to their survival. Karen Sullivan, a spokesperson for the WCAA, is a former endangered species biologist and assistant regional director at the US Fish and Wildlife Service; she is now retired. "The numbers are staggering," she told Truthout, speaking about the number of marine mammals the Navy is permitted to take. "When you realize the same individual animals can be harassed over and over again as they migrate to different areas, there is no mitigation that can make up for these losses except limiting the use of sonar and explosives where these animals are trying to live." Yet the aforementioned staggering numbers are still lower-end estimates, as they do not include dozens of other military projects in the same areas, such as construction using underwater pile driving, and they only apply to marine mammals, not other species. According to the WCAA, the numbers "do not include takes to endangered and threatened seabirds, fish, sea turtles or terrestrial species impacted by Navy activities, using sonar, explosives, underwater and surface drones, sonobuoys, ships, submarines, aircraft, or troops training on 68 beaches and state parks in western Washington..." "The oceans are delicate and finite; we know now that there is a limit to what the seas can provide," Stolarcyk said. "Oceans are not blue deserts [devoid of life] and should not be treated as such; we must tread carefully, for the footprint we leave will be a lasting one." Read more: http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/36037-the-us-navy-s-mass-destruction-of-marine-life
|
41 replies, 3098 views
Cannot reply in locked threads
![]() |
Author | Time | Post |
![]() |
kadaholo | May 2016 | OP |
yourpaljoey | May 2016 | #1 | |
reddread | May 2016 | #4 | |
yourpaljoey | May 2016 | #6 | |
fasttense | May 2016 | #10 | |
yourpaljoey | May 2016 | #11 | |
reddread | May 2016 | #27 | |
Peregrine Took | May 2016 | #28 | |
trueblue2007 | May 2016 | #13 | |
ReRe | May 2016 | #15 | |
yourpaljoey | May 2016 | #17 | |
Sunlei | May 2016 | #18 | |
reddread | May 2016 | #29 | |
Sunlei | May 2016 | #37 | |
reddread | May 2016 | #39 | |
Sunlei | May 2016 | #40 | |
reddread | May 2016 | #41 | |
felix_numinous | May 2016 | #2 | |
yeoman6987 | May 2016 | #7 | |
felix_numinous | May 2016 | #8 | |
yeoman6987 | May 2016 | #9 | |
Sunlei | May 2016 | #22 | |
hack89 | May 2016 | #25 | |
Sunlei | May 2016 | #38 | |
hack89 | May 2016 | #24 | |
felix_numinous | May 2016 | #31 | |
DashOneBravo | May 2016 | #36 | |
ladjf | May 2016 | #3 | |
harun | May 2016 | #14 | |
ladjf | May 2016 | #26 | |
Faux pas | May 2016 | #5 | |
Gregorian | May 2016 | #12 | |
PersonNumber503602 | May 2016 | #16 | |
chervilant | May 2016 | #19 | |
yourpaljoey | May 2016 | #20 | |
chervilant | May 2016 | #32 | |
libodem | May 2016 | #21 | |
Kang Colby | May 2016 | #23 | |
ladjf | May 2016 | #30 | |
Judi Lynn | May 2016 | #33 | |
Judi Lynn | May 2016 | #34 | |
WHEN CRABS ROAR | May 2016 | #35 |
Response to kadaholo (Original post)
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:56 PM
yourpaljoey (2,166 posts)
1. Add this to Obama's Legacy
Obama backed this abomination. Was anyone surprised? Really?
|
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to yourpaljoey (Reply #1)
Mon May 16, 2016, 01:05 PM
reddread (6,896 posts)
4. it has been going on for decades
laying this sort of Defense related animal cruelty at the foot of a given President might be mistaken for exonerating all the others. What the imperial complex wants is MUCH more important than the lives of miserable marine mammals.
just check in with the Family about Dominion. its all good. |
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to reddread (Reply #4)
Mon May 16, 2016, 01:36 PM
yourpaljoey (2,166 posts)
6. Another broken promise. Once again, he didn't even try.
"During his campaign, President Obama promised America he would oppose the killing of these magnificent creatures. It’s time for you and me to hold him to that promise.
|
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to yourpaljoey (Reply #6)
Mon May 16, 2016, 02:03 PM
fasttense (17,301 posts)
10. Now, now, did you really expect Obama to follow that carefully worded Democratic platform?
Yes, he saiddddddddd he would but it was only words.
He's great at talking and giving speeches. He certainly came off smarter and more sophisticated than any RepubliCON ever was. But alas it was all only words. |
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to fasttense (Reply #10)
Mon May 16, 2016, 02:08 PM
yourpaljoey (2,166 posts)
11. And words are all he had, to take our hearts away!
It was almost like a song.
Sadly, the song is Cream's "What a Bringdown" ![]() |
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to yourpaljoey (Reply #11)
Mon May 16, 2016, 03:24 PM
reddread (6,896 posts)
27. double feature
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to fasttense (Reply #10)
Mon May 16, 2016, 03:24 PM
Peregrine Took (6,824 posts)
28. I don't think he is an "animal" person.
I feel sorry for those dogs.
As I recall his girls wanted a small dog - something small and cuddly It was Ted Kennedy's idea for the water dogs. You never see them anymore. I bet they live in "crates" like so many dogs today do - except for videos or special events when they drag them around for show and tell. The truth will come out some day. |
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to yourpaljoey (Reply #1)
Mon May 16, 2016, 02:16 PM
trueblue2007 (15,262 posts)
13. WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT. IS. NOT. PRESIDENT. OBAMA'S. FAULT.
are you thinking you're in a GOP place of comfort? Why blame President Obama when this horrible action has been going on for DECADES???
|
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to trueblue2007 (Reply #13)
Mon May 16, 2016, 02:26 PM
ReRe (10,597 posts)
15. Then we need to BLAME him for not....
.... STOPPING the slaughter!
|
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to trueblue2007 (Reply #13)
Mon May 16, 2016, 02:34 PM
yourpaljoey (2,166 posts)
17. Obama should have TRIED to stop it, instead he rubber-stamped it
This was a big deal among conservationists who were, believe
it or not, surprised and appalled at Obama's green light. They would learn soon enough. Pierce Brosnan led the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) in the fight: https://www.yahoo.com/news/navy-training-testing-may-kill-whales-dolphins-082418197.html?ref=gs http://madmikesamerica.com/2010/04/obama-administration-supports-hunting-killing-of-whales/ |
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to yourpaljoey (Reply #1)
Mon May 16, 2016, 02:36 PM
Sunlei (22,651 posts)
18. President O has protected more land & water than ANY administration in history.
You're just flat out wrong. Stop drinking your tap water.
|
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to Sunlei (Reply #18)
Mon May 16, 2016, 03:27 PM
reddread (6,896 posts)
29. he stopped fracking?
I have got to start paying attention.
|
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to reddread (Reply #29)
Mon May 16, 2016, 05:56 PM
Sunlei (22,651 posts)
37. yes on the protected lands. To stop it on your land, you have to stop taking the lease money from
the Fracking Corps.
|
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to Sunlei (Reply #37)
Mon May 16, 2016, 06:07 PM
reddread (6,896 posts)
39. he protected protected lands?
are we offshore fracking in marine sanctuaries yet?
|
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to reddread (Reply #39)
Mon May 16, 2016, 06:16 PM
Sunlei (22,651 posts)
40. You can use search and find out for yourself.
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to Sunlei (Reply #40)
Mon May 16, 2016, 06:47 PM
reddread (6,896 posts)
41. I did once. Found out what Jerry Brown's dad did in his retirement years
Not as easy to relocate that search result these days,
but I sure wont forget that nugget. |
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to kadaholo (Original post)
Mon May 16, 2016, 01:02 PM
felix_numinous (5,198 posts)
2. Sickening
I feel sick reading this, how on Earth can it be stopped?
|
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to felix_numinous (Reply #2)
Mon May 16, 2016, 01:50 PM
yeoman6987 (14,449 posts)
7. It can't.
There is no way the American people will want to disband our navy. I don't think we'd get 10 percent of a yes from the population of voters.
|
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #7)
Mon May 16, 2016, 01:54 PM
felix_numinous (5,198 posts)
8. Not disband
the freaking Navy, just to stop these projects. For godsake I come from a Navy family.
A better project would be to clean up the dying oceans, because the Navy is going to be floating on a dead sea someday if we don't do something now about it. A dying ocean is a far greater danger than anything else right now. |
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to felix_numinous (Reply #8)
Mon May 16, 2016, 02:00 PM
yeoman6987 (14,449 posts)
9. That is a good idea.
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to felix_numinous (Reply #8)
Mon May 16, 2016, 02:53 PM
Sunlei (22,651 posts)
22. agree, Navy has to stop sonar 'blasts' It kills animals who use sonar & stresses other sea animals.
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to Sunlei (Reply #22)
Mon May 16, 2016, 03:20 PM
hack89 (38,948 posts)
25. The Navy has to use sonars
it is a fundamental part of what they do.
|
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to hack89 (Reply #25)
Mon May 16, 2016, 06:01 PM
Sunlei (22,651 posts)
38. Todays sonar is a lot louder, reaches much longer distance then it used to be.
![]() |
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to felix_numinous (Reply #8)
Mon May 16, 2016, 03:19 PM
hack89 (38,948 posts)
24. How can the Navy train if they can't use sonar, sonobouys and shoot weapons?
if they can't do that then they might as well disband.
|
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to hack89 (Reply #24)
Mon May 16, 2016, 03:30 PM
felix_numinous (5,198 posts)
31. Good question
but I know if we can go to the Moon we can figure out how to protect ourselves while not causing so much death and destruction. It would simply be a shift in mission to view our ocean and planet as something to protect rather than allowing so much 'collateral damage'.
I think all that military money can go into Earth preservation, and we would INSTANTLY have the cooperation and respect of most of the civilized world-- who are just as alarmed at seeing Earth changes as we are. We have to change our mission to creating a sustainable future NOW, we can't just give up. |
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to hack89 (Reply #24)
Mon May 16, 2016, 04:02 PM
DashOneBravo (2,292 posts)
36. Like the Army did
When the budgets were tight.
You guys can yell bang bang, make pinging noises while running around on the sand . |
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to kadaholo (Original post)
Mon May 16, 2016, 01:03 PM
ladjf (17,320 posts)
3. They've been doing it for far longer than five years. nt
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to ladjf (Reply #3)
Mon May 16, 2016, 02:19 PM
harun (11,281 posts)
14. +1, more like 50
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to harun (Reply #14)
Mon May 16, 2016, 03:21 PM
ladjf (17,320 posts)
26. I haven't actually researched this point. However,
I can remember reading in the news for at least 10 or 15 yrs. that the navy was renewing their
sonar test in the ocean. I just don't understand why they have the need to do this for decades. Also, oil exploration is creating loud explosions underwater. |
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to kadaholo (Original post)
Mon May 16, 2016, 01:08 PM
Faux pas (12,390 posts)
5. No words
![]() |
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to kadaholo (Original post)
Mon May 16, 2016, 02:11 PM
Gregorian (23,867 posts)
12. I always thought the phrase "evil empire" was an accurate description of America's military.
Damn them to hell.
|
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to Gregorian (Reply #12)
Mon May 16, 2016, 02:32 PM
PersonNumber503602 (1,134 posts)
16. I don't understand why the US doesn't use the same tactics and tech as the
non harmful Russian or Chinese navies.
|
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to kadaholo (Original post)
Mon May 16, 2016, 02:36 PM
chervilant (8,267 posts)
19. USA! USA!
I am so with Samuel Johnson:
Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. (When are the citizens of this nation going to rise up as one and demand an end to such abominations?!?) |
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to chervilant (Reply #19)
Mon May 16, 2016, 02:39 PM
yourpaljoey (2,166 posts)
20. We need to turn this ship around.
We need Bernie now more than ever! |
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to yourpaljoey (Reply #20)
Mon May 16, 2016, 03:33 PM
chervilant (8,267 posts)
32. + a gazillion!!!
#NotMeUs
#DropOutHillary |
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to kadaholo (Original post)
Mon May 16, 2016, 02:50 PM
libodem (19,288 posts)
21. Well now the Submariners
All have cancer for all their trouble. Our planet is headed for distruction.
|
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to kadaholo (Original post)
Mon May 16, 2016, 03:13 PM
Kang Colby (1,938 posts)
23. Does anyone have this story from a reputable source?
Last edited Mon May 16, 2016, 09:02 PM - Edit history (1) Truth out is just a tabloid blog. I think that's the same blog that published the fake Karl Rove indictment story ten years ago.
|
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to Kang Colby (Reply #23)
Mon May 16, 2016, 03:29 PM
ladjf (17,320 posts)
30. Try the INTERNET. There are numerous articles on the subject over
several years time. Personally, I can recall articles on the subject at least as long as 15 years ago.
|
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to Kang Colby (Reply #23)
Mon May 16, 2016, 03:37 PM
Judi Lynn (152,041 posts)
33. Why would you attempt to pretend this is a bogus story?We've been reading similar stories for years.
Took it to google, without spending more than a second, found a similar one we all saw several years ago:
Navy raises sonar impact on dolphins, whales dramatically Friday May 11, 2012 2:48 PM New Navy estimates showing many more dolphins, whales and other marine mammals could be hurt by sonar off Hawaii and Southern California caused alarm among environmentalists on Friday. The Navy, for its part, emphasized those were worst-case estimates and that the numbers cover a much larger testing area than before. The numbers are in the Navy's new draft environmental impact statement for exercises planned from 2014-2018. In it, the Navy says that, under its preferred alternative, sonar training and testing might unintentionally harm marine mammals 2.8 million times a year over five years. "The numbers are staggering and there is absolutely no corresponding mitigation to account for this harm," Zak Smith, an attorney for the Natural Resources Defense Council, told msnbc.com. That's up from about 150,000 instances a year in the Navy's impact statement for 2009-2013, Smith added. More: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/05/11/11659008-navy-raises-sonar-impact-on-dolphins-whales-dramatically [center]~ ~ ~[/center] Apparently the only sources you accept are corporate news sources, and the rest of us have learned to be skeptical of them in many situations. DU'ers have trusted upon Truthout here for ages, without your approval. That's fine with us. |
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to kadaholo (Original post)
Mon May 16, 2016, 03:39 PM
Judi Lynn (152,041 posts)
34. Thank you, kadaholo. This information needs to be seen, not hidden. Good people need to know. n/t
Cannot reply in locked threads
Response to kadaholo (Original post)
Mon May 16, 2016, 03:58 PM
WHEN CRABS ROAR (3,813 posts)
35. This is outrageous.
As we enter a new era to save our precious environment, seems like one of our main enemies is our own county.
|
Cannot reply in locked threads