Warren: 'I don’t believe in superdelegates’

[TomCADem]

Source: The Hill

“I’m a superdelegate and I don’t believe in superdelegates,” she said at the Massachusetts State Democratic Convention in Lowell, Mass. "I don’t think superdelegates ought to sway the election.”

Politico on Saturday reported the Massachusetts Democratic Party voted on a resolution to “thoroughly, objectively and transparently” study the superdelegate system before the 2020 presidential election.
Warren, who remains publicly neutral in this year’s Democratic presidential primary, said she agrees with the decision.

“Yes, I did,” she said when asked if Massachusetts’ superdelegate rules deserve such scrutiny.

Superdelegates like Warren are not bound by primary or caucus results to any presidential candidate during next month’s Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia.

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/282232-warren-i-dont-believe-in-superdelegates

[Eric J in MN]

1. MN and WI Democratic conventions agree.

They voted Saturday to advocate reforming or eliminating the Super Delegate system.

[msongs]

2. not lbn it is an opinion piece on a blog lol

[pnwmom]

3. Bernie does. He says the AP shouldn't call the election on the basis of the pledged

delegates -- which will happen for Hillary in California -- because he plans to talk super delegates into flipping for him at the convention.

Even though by Tuesday night she will have majorities of both combined delegates (pledged and super) and pledged delegates only. And millions more votes in the primaries.

What a hypocrite.

[cui bono]

6. They can't call the election on the "basis of pledged delegates" because it won't happen before

the convention. Hillary wants everyone to unite behind her but she has the hubris and arrogance to give a victory speech before she clinches the nom, hell before CA even gets to finish voting, an action which will only serve to alienate the very voters whose support she needs. She and her supporters think Bernie needs to drop out in order to respect the will of the voters yet she and her supporters don't even care if every vote counts.

What hypocrites.

.

[pnwmom]

7. Ever since super delegates were introduced in 1984, the Associated Press

has called the election during or immediately after the primaries, when a candidate reaches the "magic number" -- a majority of ALL the delegates, including both pledged delegates and super delegates.

Bernie wants to overturn 32 years of party precedent, just for his race against Hillary.

Talk about hubris and arrogance.

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/1532358

What does it mean to 'clinch the nomination' when superdelegates are involved?

May 29, 2016

After reading a number of impassioned defenses of why the Democratic presidential nomination should not be called next week on June 7th, I got curious. What’s the history here, since the superdelegates were added to the process? When a Democratic candidate hits the magic number of pledged delegates plus superdelegates, are they the nominee?

The answer: history says the first person to get to the magic number is the presumptive nominee, and says it unambiguously, even if the losers often disagree.

Here’s how it has gone since the superdelegates were added to the process.

Mondale / Hart / Jackson (1984)

[cui bono]

8. Hilary supporters just refuse to believe they are not above the rules.

The rules are clear. Hillary and her supporters think they are above them. The hubris will cost them, I'm certain.

The way that Hillary ran her campaign and the way her supporters have acted with complete fabrications of scandals in order to smear both Bernie and his supporters, the slur "BernieBro", the outright cheating caught on video... after all of that, if she and her supporters claim victory prematurely she and you will have no one to blame but yourselves if Bernie supporters don't get on board with her.

If you are so certain she will be the nominee then sit back, relax and be classy and gracious. But believe me, a premature victory lap will only alienate voters that aren't already in her camp, Bernie supporters or not.

And Bernie is no Gore. I don't think he will just put his tail between his legs and go home just because someone decided to announce something before it actually happened. At least in Gore's case it was SCOTUS declaring something. In this case who decides? The AP? MSNBC? CNN? Hillary herself? What kind of validity does that have?

Trust me, you do not want her to call it early.

.

[pnwmom]

9. The AP will be calling it, just as they have for every nominee in every election

since 1984. And the rest of the media will follow suit.

[cui bono]

10. Doesn't mean they aren't going against what the DNC rules are.

[pnwmom]

11. Right. All the media and candidates since 1984 have been wrong every time,

and only Bernie knows the truth -- that he could still win because hundreds of super delegates and pledged delegates might turn their back on the person who has won the majority of pledged delegates and of millions of diverse voters across the country.

Got it.

[Plucketeer]

19. Right.

You WANT rules. Just so they're the rules YOU fancy.

Got it!

[TeacherB87]

24. You just don't get it.

Once a candidate gets to a majority of pledged delegates, 2026, the race is over. All remaining superdelegates will support the candidate with a majority of pledged delegates. Hillary will accomplish that on June 7th. A majority of delegates overall is impossible in a close race but irrelevant because that majority will always be delivered to the candidate with a majority of pledged delegates.

Why don't Bernie supporters get this?

And FYI, this is a completely separate point from whether or not the process is unfair. But if it is, it wasn't unfair for Bernie because he got a larger percentage of delegates than votes.

Accept the will of the people man. He didn't win, and in some fantasy world in which superdelegates decided to overturn the popular will of the the voters it would be a slap in the face to the millions of women and people of color (and sure, white people too) that voted for her.

[Plucketeer]

25. I'm married to a teacher

A CIVICS teacher, no less. We "get it" and that's why we're behind Bernie 101%. Hillary's Sham-pain is just that. It's a hell-bent RAMROD for anyone foolish enough to the that Democrats play fair. The PTB of the party have embraced with glee, the corporate moola and now they're as deranged as the party they profess to be at odds with.

[TeacherB87]

29. Ok

How does this change the results of the election?

[Plucketeer]

30. Fine

So at just what point do you say to yourself: To HELL with principles! Go along to get along - THAT'S my creed!

[TeacherB87]

43. What an absurd insult to hurl at someone.

I have principles. Most of them are aligned with Bernie Sanders, mind you. BUT HE LOST.

One of the main principles I believe in is that the people should decide. They did, and Clinton won. I may not be happy with the result, I may not trust Clinton to deliver on progressive issues, but its a fact.

These discussions about subverting the democratic process because our candidate of choice did not win is completely antithetical to everything I believe in.

If you want to talk about shirking principles, how about calling superdelegates undemocratic and then making them an essential tool in your strategy for victory? Even though most people did not support your candidate? That doesn't seem very principled to me at all.

For the record, I'm here to discuss facts not hurl insults at people. Please stop with the pettiness, theres enough of that going around on here as it is at the moment.

[Plucketeer]

44. There's a difference between losing and being swindled

I'll vote principles since I have to look in the mirror now and again. I refuse to be some PRE-played gamepiece. If I vote like I "have to", then Democracy is dead.

[TeacherB87]

46. Whatever man...

He wasn't swindled. He did not run a successful campaign. It's not like beating Hillary is something that hasn't been done before. I know its easier to assume the best man for the job lost because of shenanigans but he didn't. And if you want to not be a pre-played gamepiece then what we have to accomplish is much more profound than electing Bernie Sanders.

Also, the death of Democracy in this country happened quite a bit before now. What I'm fighting for is the restoration of Democracy. Very few recent presidential elections featured candidates in which one did not just feel obligated to vote against someone else. And I, on principle, will do whatever I can to prevent Trump from getting into the Whitehouse. He's worse than Hillary.

The sad part is that we progressives are on here bickering about next steps while the fascists continue to strategize about how to tighten their stranglehold around our necks.

Why can't we accept what is and figure out how to make Hillary feel like she has no other choice but to embrace progressive policy? Continue the work that Bernie started now that he's lost? And pave the way for the success of real progressive candidates at all levels in the future?

[thucythucy]

51. Excellent post.

Thank you.

[TeacherB87]

52. No problemo!

Thanks for the compliment!

[MillennialDem]

31. Almost certainly they will, but they are not obligated to. The super delegates are there as a

"red button."

In the event of indictment or major political scandal right before the convention (ie Gary Hart) that red button should be pushed. Same thing in the event of major injury or incapacity...

Should it be pushed in the case of electability? Probably not, but Bernie has the right to make that case.

[moondust]

34. If that's truly what they're for

then what the hell are they doing endorsing any candidate before the primaries are over and in some cases before the primaries have even begun?

It may have started out the way you say but like everything else in the U.S. political duopoly it has been gamed and manipulated and purchased and leveraged for advantage until it's utterly corrupt.

[MillennialDem]

35. They fucking shouldn't be. And of course, you're right about corruption.

If Bernie was in the lead but with a possible indictment, I'm fairly confident a lot of SDs would break ranks and vote for Clinton (the establishment).

[moondust]

37. Absolutely.

Any excuse to marginalize a "change" candidate.

[pandr32]

32. Right--he has got rules down so-ooo well

...he is in repeated trouble with the FEC. THis latest time they said, "Uh...no!" to his attempt to bill his luxury extended family one-day vacation to Rome to his campaign. Rules are clear.

Truth is that Bernie is a posturing politician, same as many others.

[Plucketeer]

45. If he's "posturing"

it's on OUR behalf - not like his opponent and her god-given mission to occupy the Oval Office.

[pandr32]

47. Who is "our"

Hillary Clinton works for all of us and has millions more votes and hundreds more pledged delegates than Bernie Sanders.

[Plucketeer]

48. As has been suggested

She should Rightfully wear sponsor patches all over her pants suits - like race car drivers do. THAT'S who she's beholden to - beholden to the tune of millions and billions. But it's not like this is the first time you've heard (and stuck your fingers in your ears) this. I'd have to deduce that you honestly believe those corporate donors are basically PAYING her to do nice things for the general populace.

Got any interest in a bridge? I've got one to sell ya!

[George II]

21. So what happened to the Sanders claim that the superdelegates should vote with the people?

[Plucketeer]

49. I think I've only lied THIS much!

[Evar]

38. What's new in 2016 is corporate lobbyists as superdelegates

Just because something has been in effect since 1984 doesn't make it right. The superdelegate system was put in place so the party elites could make sure they could counter any grassroots nomination. Obama outlawed, within the party, corporate lobbyists as superdelegates. The party, under DWS, re-instated it. In Texas, Hillary swooped up 90 congressional delegates, probably superdelegates, way before we, the people, even voted in the primary. That was wrong, and from that time, I lost faith in my party's commitment to free and fair elections. That's no small thing for me. I'm a precinct chair.

[muriel_volestrangler]

18. Sanders has already said he wants superdelegates to vote the way their state did

"I would hope very much that the superdelegates from those states where we have won with big margins or, in fact, where Secretary Clinton has won with big margins, to respect the wishes of the people of those states and vote in line with how the people of that state voted," Sanders said last week at a speech in Washington.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/16/politics/democratic-superdelegate-math-sanders-clinton/

The most favourable interpretation of that for him would be a proportional division according to each state's votes. But, since she's ahead in that too, she still gets the nomination. Barring a total collapse in her vote by June 7th, the only way for him to win would be for superdelegates to go against what he asked them to do.

[George II]

22. Simply put (I've posted this a couple of times already), regardless of the way the superdelegates...

...."should" vote, Sanders loses.

If they vote for the candidate who won their state, Clinton get the majority of SDs.
If they vote proportionally for the candidates in their state, Clinton gets the majority of SDs.
If they vote the way they choose to vote, Clinton get the majority of SDs.

Add that to the majority of Pledged Delegates, and Clinton gets the nomination.

It's hard to understand how >50% (pledged) plus >50% (superdelegates) can possibly add up to <50% total.

[TexasBushwhacker]

40. When all the primaries are done, you are correct

But they aren't done yet, are they? There are still 895 pledged delegates and uncommitted superdelegates up for grabs. Bernie has gotten 46% of the pledged delegates so far. If Sanders got enough superdelegates to side with him, he could still win. If he has the money, why shouldn't he stay in the race? Furthermore, if Hillary is such a shoe in, why does she care one way or another?

[George II]

41. Using each of the methods of assigning superdelegates that the Sanders campaign themselves...

...have come up with, regardless of the fact that a few primaries haven't been completed yet, she should have a majority of superdelegates - one scheme has a bigger majority, one has a smaller majority, but still a majority. But still a majority.

[Silver_Witch]

27. This is what he said and I support him in standing to this!

I support Bernie and will be sad when he looses. That is a fact. However I think there is no harm in letting the game finish. California vote on the 7th and then the balance on the following Tuesday. Let it finish and then we will have a winner. No harm no foul.

[TomCADem]

33. It Happened in 2008, With Obama and Hillary. Not Hubris. Consistency

Here is an article on June 17, 2008 talking about how Barack Obama secured the nomination even though Hillary had an even better argument than Bernie does today that he had not secured the nomination.


http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jun/17/nation/na-campaign17

ormer Vice President Al Gore stepped forward to endorse Illinois Sen. Barack Obama for president on Monday night -- an attention-grabbing event that came as no surprise but renewed the speculation about whether they might form a joint ticket.

Obama's first campaign appearance with Gore, at the Joe Louis Arena in downtown Detroit, came after Gore announced his support in a blog item on his website, AlGore.com. In the item, Gore said he would "do whatever I can to make sure he is elected president of the United States."

* * *

Gore also used his website to solicit donations for Obama. It was the first time, he said, that he had asked supporters to give to a political campaign.

During the primaries, Gore's endorsement was heavily courted by Obama and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, who was first lady when Gore was vice president. But Gore held out until after Obama secured the nomination.

[puffy socks]

42. Oh geez

"Bernie needs to drop out in order to respect the will of the voters yet she and her supporters don't even care if every vote counts."

Let them vote. the deal is that even if Sanders gets 100% of all the remaining delegates Hillary still beats him. So the votes aren't going to change anything. How hard is that to understand?

mathematically its impossible..and anyone with 2 brain cells knows Bernard isn't overturning hundreds of SDs

In sports terms:
football-- It doesn't matter if you score points at the end of the 4th quarter if the other team is up by 40 points.

[George II]

12. The ONLY way Sanders can win is via superdelegates, and we all know (whether or not we admit it)....

...that isn't going to happen.

[Plucketeer]

20. So PLEASE

PLEASE - roll over and submit. We'll even rub your tummy for you. We know you have hopes and dreams, but they're the dumb ones. Our candidate has the GOOD ideas and the SuperPacs and the rigged system to prove it. C'mon, it ain't that hard to toss your aspirations out the window. Here - have a sip of this Kool-ade. Everything will be easier with this.

[Zen Democrat]

4. Me neither, Liz. It's because superdelegates void democracy.

[Jnclr89]

5. there's no way she said that

or she would not believe in her self.

[Norman Conch Quest]

13. Hillary Won't NEED No Stinkin' Superdelegates!

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/03/bernie-sanders-s-final-few-days-of-california-dreamin.html

[Tien1985]

14. Another reason

I likely would have been a Warren supporter if she had wanted to run.

[Cryptoad]

15. Losing to Hillary is hard enough on,,,

these Bern supporters but after Liz becomes the VP , they will go ballistics.

60 more delegates..........Madame President.

[pinebox]

16. Liz isn't going to be the VP for anybody

Sorry but that isn't happening. Hickenlooper however is a different story entirely for Hillary

[Silver_Witch]

28. Never going to happen. She dislikes Hillary.

Oh she will support HRC since that is what good dems do. Never VP. NEVER!

[pinebox]

17. Good. When over 400 SD's choose a candidate before Bernie was even in

something is royally messed up.

Why are some of these SD's lobbyists? That should be concern enough. SD's need to go. It holds us hostage to special interest.

http://truthinmedia.com/report-lobbyists-among-democratic-superdelegates/

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/reason-dozens-lobbyists-democratic-presidential-delegates/story?id=37289507

https://theintercept.com/2016/02/17/voters-be-damned/

[Plucketeer]

23. Aw C'mon!

When Hillary's your candidate, we don't need no stinkin' COMMON SENSE! The new consideration is CORPORATE SENSE. Geesh! Get "with it".

[Nitram]

26. Ironically. super delegates are Sanders only chance to win the nomination.

[Evar]

36. No Democracy in the Democratic Party

It was Warren who made us aware of how rigged our congress and our courts are against the working people of America. It follows that she would denounce rigging the nomination in our Democratic Party, and certainly not by corporate lobbyists acting as superdelegates. For that reason, I will leave the party I've supported and identified with my whole long life. It's my line in the sand. Time to start re-claiming our democracy. Revolution now!

[Bradical79]

39. Yeah, I don't entirely get the point either.

I just don't see any positive way they make a difference. Same with caucuses.

[apnu]

50. I agree with Elizabeth, they are bullshit.

But they are bullshit we have to put up with, its way to late to complain about them. It was way to late to complain about them in 2015.