Orlando gay nightclub shooting: 50 killed, suspect is Omar Mateen

[MowCowWhoHow III]

Last edited Sun Jun 12, 2016, 04:02 PM - Edit history (4)

Source: BBC

Fifty people are now known to have died in a shooting in a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida, the city's mayor Buddy Dyer has said.

The gunman, named by officials as Omar Mateen, was killed after taking hostages at the Pulse club.

President Barack Obama said Americans were united in grief, outrage and "resolve to defend our people" after "an act of terror and an act of hate".

The attack is the worst mass shooting in recent US history.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36512308

---

Florida Pulse gay club attacked in Orlando - at least 20 dead

At least 20 people have been killed and at least 42 injured after a shooting at a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida, police say.

Orlando Police said officers entered the Pulse Club about three hours after the shooting unfolded - and killed the attacker, who had taken hostages.

They called it an act of terrorism, but said they did not yet know if it was domestic or international.

Relatives have been gathering at local hospitals desperate for news.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/36510272?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_breaking&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

[Skittles]

1. Orlando seems to be gun humper central right now

[Mojorabbit]

151. The shooter was not from Orlando

and as a citizen of orlando I find your post offensive. The community has joined together and a massive blood drive is in progress. Sen Nelson just spoke and it seems this person had ties to Islamic terrorism.

[Eleanors38]

178. And that poster is first in line, too.

[Skittles]

201. oh please

did I say the shooter was from Orlando? As if gun humpers do not travel? And by the way, terrorists ARE gun humpers

[Manifestor_of_Light]

205. Young lady singer, Christina Grimmie, killed during concert Friday night in Orlando.

Shooter shot her three times in the head at point blank range. Her brother tackled him and subdued him, but not before the suspect killed himself. He had driven from another part of Florida to kill her.

[villager]

2. One 2nd Amendment victory after another in Florida of late. nt

[bluestateguy]

3. Disgusting

t

[DJ13]

4. Live coverage here

https://www.rt.com/on-air/

"reports of bombs being strapped to hostages"

[Sunlei]

10. 24/7 live from the networks Moscow offices. fox needs more '24/7 free TV' in America

RT’s flagship, award-winning English-language channel airs 24/7 from the network’s Moscow offices.

[msanthrope]

128. Fuck Putin's anti-gay 24/7 network. nt

[Sunlei]

131. sucks that the only 'free' 24/7 live news for Americans is putins Russia(in english) TV.

[msanthrope]

133. I think you need to get out more. nt

[Sunlei]

138. I don't have pay TV.

That's how I paid off my mortgage.

[msanthrope]

82. Fuck RT....coverage from country that is currently outlawing being gay and persecuting gays? nt

[7962]

88. Damn good point

[Bluenorthwest]

110. Thanks for that, I had to bite my tongue.....

nt

[nitpicker]

5. Link to BBC

http://www.bbc.com/news/36510272

[LostOne4Ever]

6. This is horrible!!!

[Station to Station]

7. Apparently the police on scanner are asking for an Arabic translator.

I'm sure Trump is salivating. Let's just hope it's an American refusing to speak English rather than the alternative.

[ck4829]

18. Avoid inaccurate information.

[pinboy3niner]

20. +1. nt

[trumad]

32. I have heard nothing regarding identity of the shooter.

Matter of fact I heard the shooter was dead.

[IronLionZion]

65. Dead people always need translation

when dealing with new DUers with low post counts

[Station to Station]

95. It's not out of the question and the FBI seem to think it's possible

I'm not jumping to conclusions, just something I'd heard and has since been expanded on. We shall see; I would be somewhat surprised if it involves more than a lone fanatic.

From the BBC:

"An FBI spokesman said they were investigating whether the attacker was a "lone wolf". He said the attacker appeared to "have leanings towards" radical Islamist ideology but it was not yet clear whether this was a case of domestic or international terrorism."

From Huffington Post:

"When asked if the FBI suspected that the gunman may have an extremist leanings, including a possible sympathy with Islamic State, Ronald Hopper, an assistant FBI agent in charge, said: “We do have suggestions that the individual may have leanings toward that particular ideology. But right now we can’t say definitively.”

[ancianita]

209. Lone wolf LOL

That guy is one of 41 Americans on the "known or suspected terrorists" associated with the war in Syria.

This "lone wolf" bullshit is a PR attempt to lull the country into "nothing to see" sleepwalking.

[LiberalArkie]

126. Here ya go

[smirkymonkey]

191. What an asshole!

Fuck him!

[Sunlei]

134. name reported as, Omar Mateen an American. His father stated on news he was anti-gay.

[LannyDeVaney]

55. Yeah, right.

[IronLionZion]

64. Welcome to DU

[840high]

182. This is a time to worry

about the victims not Trump.

[Amimnoch]

8. Continuous coverage on CNN right now as well.

Sounds like very little is actually known right now. The police update keeps getting delayed.

As of right now, being reported multiple injuries, no confirmed deaths.

[Amimnoch]

13. CNN just changed it from multiple injuries to "mass casualties"

Did also just report that the shooter is dead.

[Aerows]

23. What propels people to do this kind of

horrifying evil?

Maybe I'm weird, but "I want to be evil" hasn't ever been on my bucket list.

[Amimnoch]

24. I can't even begin to fathom it either :(

Really, I can only think of 3 known root causes:
Religious fanaticism/bigoted hatred, mental illness, or extreme desperation combined with easy access to powerful weaponry.

[ReRe]

46. Dude was probably pumped up...

... with unGodly amts of drugs too.

[raccoon]

153. Those few words are the reason,

easy access to powerful weaponry.

[Yo_Mama]

36. FBI suspects Islamic terrorist trying to recreate the club attack in France

https://twitter.com/BenBradleyABC7?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

There were calls from ISIS/Taliban for mass attacks during Ramadan.

I still don't understand the motivation for that, but it does appear to be a terrorist attack. Suicide vest and so forth:
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2016/06/12/orlando-nightclub-horror-shooter-strapped-with-suicide-vest-leaves-mass-casualties-hostages-351438

[ellenrr]

47. shit! I really hope the shooter does not turn out to be an Islamic terrorist. I realize

that makes no difference to the dead wounded and their families - but-- domestically, re electoral politics-- it would be bad....

[7962]

56. Spot on

[7962]

93. What a ridiculous thing to say.

Whoever it was needs to be exposed regardless of their motive.

[nitpicker]

9. BBC also starting live updates

http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-us-canada-36510172

But not much new yet.

[melman]

11. Orlando police calling it a 'mass casualty situation'

https://twitter.com/OrlandoPolice/status/741930065567617024?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

[icymist]

19. Don't jump to conclusions about the "mass caualty situation"

It very well could be a code that the lead paramedic stated which would be MCI Level 1. All that means is that the first responders on the scene are overwhelmed and they are calling out for more help. It does not mean fatalities. It means that they have more people injured than what they can provide and are calling for more alarms and a triage set up. I have seen this call at auto wrecks where there are more than two injured.

[Delphinus]

22. Thanks for sharing that.

Sure hope it's not as bad as our first thoughts are.

[AngryOldDem]

27. Orlando police are saying there are multiple people dead inside.

I feel absolutely sick.

This IS terrorism, no matter who committed it.

[Cassiopeia]

28. Yeah, that's not happening here.

There are hundreds of officers and rescue on scene.

[Demsrule86]

37. Twenty people dead

as many as 40 injured. Domestic terrorism?

[juxtaposed]

12. orlando regional medical center is just across the street

I would think a lot of medical staff are right there helping with the injured.

[mnhtnbb]

14. Orlando Police just reported the shooter is dead inside.

https://twitter.com/OrlandoPolice

[melman]

17. The way that tweet is worded suggests there's another shooter

[melman]

15. Orlando police: shooter is dead

https://twitter.com/OrlandoPolice?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

[6chars]

29. usatoday reports multiple dead, at least 42 wounded

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/06/12/shooting-orlando-club/85785254/

shooter killed, no other information about the shooter

this is just sickening.

note - my headline matches click headline on internet, article not updated yet

[melman]

30. Orlando Police Chief just said maybe 20 dead inside club

[6chars]

34. Tears.

[Demsrule86]

38. My daughter is gay and is at Pride in Pittsburgh. nt

[Crabby Appleton]

31. Police chief says approximately 20 dead. nt

[IronLionZion]

63. Welcome to DU

[Aerows]

21. Horrific. n/t

[icymist]

25. The pictures I'm seeing on CNN look horrific. This is a very big response.

Who would do this? Is it a back lash against the LGBT community drove up from hatred of the attacks on the 'T'? The Trump anger towards anyone who is different?

[liberal N proud]

26. How many more?

How many more?

[Indydem]

51. Just get that dag gone 2nd Amendment repealed.

Then you can start infringing.

Until then, can it.

This guy is an Islamic terrorist with a suicide vest. The gun isn't the problem here.

[liberal N proud]

67. Not looking for that at all!

"This guy is an Islamic terrorist with a suicide vest." You don't know that.

[Volaris]

143. Even if he was, I'm wondering how that's relevant.

Islamic or not, radicalized or not, he didn't walk into that building and kill fifty people with A FORK.

[Indydem]

175. Get outside your bubble.

If people have a hell bent on killing other people, they will do it.

Knives. Suicide vests. Commercial airliners. Guns.

The weapon is irrelevant; the culture of hatred driving it is the problem.

Dylan Roof is a prime example of this. Hatred knows no ideological boundaries

[FlaGranny]

190. Only

with the weapon he had (not knives, not arrows, not tomahawks) could he have killed so many people at once - and guns are not a problem?

[Volaris]

207. 'Hatred knows no ideological boundaries'

And thats why we made it damn-near impossible for anyone to acquire (highjack) a jetliner.

[Indydem]

173. Yep. Sure do.

It's been all over the news all day long. Care to apologize?

[rockfordfile]

180. Guns and religion were the problem here.

[liberal N proud]

189. It was not known at the time of 5 he post so not just NO

But ________ NO!

[MyNameGoesHere]

73. Where did he get that gun that wasn't a problem?

You should interview one of the dead people.. Oh wait you can't cause their brains are all over the place from a gun that isn't a problem. Repeal the 2nd? It's a shit amendment and should be.

[7962]

98. No weapons of this type are sold anywhere in France,

yet the attackers there had no trouble getting them. And there have been several other cases as well. how do you get an AK47 on a train?
Terrorists WILL get their guns. They're already out there. Ban them all tomorrow and they'll STILL be out there

Lets repeal the 1st too. Its a "shit amendment" allowing people to say hateful things legally, so why do we need it? We could spare a lot of feelings if we could just regulate speech! Right?

[MyNameGoesHere]

130. This didn't happen in France

It happened in gun humping amurkka. I see the weapon used was the gun humpers phallic symbol of brotherhood, AR 15.

[christx30]

144. An attack like this did happen in France.

November 13, 2015. Only the death toll was higher, with 130 slaughtered. The bans on weapons didn't seem to slow down the attackers at all. Plus I don't think suicide vests are legal in France.

[7962]

164. Missing the point entirely. Post #144 should bring you up to speed

[MyNameGoesHere]

162. The first amendment would have allowed this person to

say vile things about whatever he wanted. The second assisted him in being a terrorist and commit mass murder. See the difference?

[Indydem]

174. THEN DO IT!

If you believe that you and your gun grabber buddies have the popular support to repeal the second amendment, THEN DO IT!

Stop running your mouths about your hottest wettest fantasies about restricting the rights of Americans, and repeal the amendment.

You don't have a snowballs chance in hell of doing it, and you know that.

[AntiBank]

186. they know they can't repeal it, it would start a civil war

[dickthegrouch]

197. How dare you tramp on our grief and shock with your platitudes.

I haven't seen anything which says you feel any shame for being part of the problem.
WHEN you have actually done something to curb gun violence, then you'll have a leg to stand on, maybe.
Children who can't place nice get their toys taken away.
It's way past time to take those killing machines away.

[Captain Stern]

79. At a glance, that graphic makes sense.

Until you realize that you don't actually have to do any of those things to purchase a car.

It would make more sense to say that anyone could purchase a gun, but that all, or some, of those things be required to take it out on public property.

[Cooley Hurd]

33. My God...

[ck4829]

39. That's referencing an attack in Iraq, not here

Rough Google translation

Dr. Faisal Al- Anzi Shaman
Carried out a martyrdom operation in Iraq # # Kirkuk , killing more than 30 soldiers Safavi
# Alnkhuh_aeraekaya
#Pulse

[SkyDaddy7]

42. Thanks! nt.

[bigdarryl]

40. Its obvious the shooter targeted this club because its mainly gay

So I'm not understanding why the media is saying this might be terrorism when it comes to Islamic.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

43. Perhaps the shooter thought that killing gays would please Allah.

Or perhaps the shooter's motive was more personal and complex.

The motive might remain a mystery, since the shooter will be answering no questions.

[Elmergantry]

44. Really?

You do know Sharia calls for the killing of gays...in fact it happens quite frequently in Iran.

[bigdarryl]

62. Obviously he's not white because the media come out to quick

To say terrorism

[whathehell]

90. Nothing is obvious here..It's being called 'domestic terrorism'

Zero racial implications.

[Vinca]

70. It was also Latin night at the club.

Was the shooter Trump-inspired? It should be interesting to see how this plays out. It's tragic whether it's domestic or international terrorism. We've got to get rid of assault weapons in civilian hands.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

45. Officially considered Domestic Terrorism now

officials have classified the rampage as a “domestic terrorism incident,” Orange County Sheriff Jerry Demings said. -- HuffPo

[6chars]

48. they better check the terrorist's links

if there are any other people involved, this network has to be uprooted.
(and whether or not it was a lone wolf, obviously one more reason to not sell machine guns at Walmart)

[PoliticAverse]

53. They don't sell "machine guns" at Walmart. n/t

[6chars]

57. figuratively speaking.

[Eleanors38]

181. Not hard to believe. MSM speaks very figuratively.

[7962]

87. They dont sell them anywhere in France either.

Yet they're obviously available to criminals both there & here

[ProudProgressiveNow]

50. AND it was Latino night..... nt

[ck4829]

58. I'm not sure if it's a coincidence that Christina Grimmie was assassinated just two days earlier

I'm not saying the two are actually part of the same plot. But it's like what happened with the George Tiller assassination and the Planned Parenthood shooting last year, if this is indeed an Islamic terrorist attack, then that means all three high profile domestic attacks were followed by Islamic terrorist attacks within days of them happening.

We do not get Islamic terrorist attacks regularly.
We do not get domestic terrorist attacks regularly.
We do not get high profile assassinations regularly.

I think we need to start looking at this as a form of simultaneous terror attack.

[Arazi]

60. Oh my god!

[bucolic_frolic]

61. Bravery on the part of LE and authorities

I'm no fan of militarized police on an everyday basis but the
law enforcement response here is brave and reassuring, and they
needed the capacity they had

These professionals have to be ready to go, even at Sunday, 2 am

Plus all the supporting and rescue personnel

Way to go, guys and gals

[Feeling the Bern]

68. America has gone ZERO days without a mass shooting

[HoosierCowboy]

69. Trump just won the Presidency...

...if the shooter is either Muslim, Hispanic, or both...

[Angel Martin]

76. CBS news has identified the shooter as Omar Mateen

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/pulse-nightclub-shooting-orlando/

[Bernardo de La Paz]

84. Your link does not state that. No mention of a suspect's name . . nt

[Angel Martin]

92. ???

right there in para 2
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/pulse-nightclub-shooting-orlando/

[Bernardo de La Paz]

94. Thanks. I missed that. . .nt

[Angel Martin]

96. NP I did too when i first read it nt

[ck4829]

78. There are millions of American Muslims who didn't do that attack this morning

Just like only one white male (Of which I am one) decided to also travel to Orlando this weekend and kill a complete stranger (Christina Grimmie) and not entire white male population.

We should focus on the victims not the perpetrator.

[Walk away]

152. ^^^Yes Please^^^

[Bernardo de La Paz]

86. No. And Americans need to grow a spine like the French they despise. Je Suis Charlie. . nt

[Bad Dog]

71. This was all done with an assault rifle.

Which the terrorist, regardless of ideology, was able to get hold of. Will it change America's gun laws? I doubt it.

[Cobalt Violet]

81. No, nothing meaningful was done when 20 1st graders where shot to death in school.

If nothing meaningful was done about that, nothing will be done about this either.

[Bad Dog]

104. That's what I thought.

It's a mindset I'll never be able to get my head around.

[TimeToEvolve]

114. it is shamefull how quickly that horrific massacre was forgotten by Idiot America.

in fact i had a major argument with a ( now former ) friend about that yesterday, he thinks that it is one big conspiracy; he keeps saying " i saw the christmas trees!!" "the parents were laughing!!" how some have a total lack o critical thinking skills.

studies have shown that belief in CTs is associated with lower intellegence and anti- social behavior.

[Sand Rat Expat]

154. Wait a minute, what?

I'm not sure I get what point your former friend is trying to make by bringing up Christmas trees and laughing parents. From your mention of conspiracy theories, I infer that he believes... what, exactly? That the whole thing was just a lie dreamed up to accomplish... what, exactly?

Seriously, I've never heard anything like that before about Newtown, and my mind just isn't connecting the dots properly. Can you enlighten me as to what he was on about?

[TimeToEvolve]

160. hold your nose, its some strong bullshit!

the christmas trees:

trees debunked:

parents:

debunked:

[Sand Rat Expat]

171. I shouldn't have asked.

Now my brainmeats hurt. They hurt so very badly.

[TimeToEvolve]

172. im sorry

[Sand Rat Expat]

204. No you're not!

Misery loves company.

[7962]

100. They were also able to get hold of them in France too, where they're illegal

Its not legal to sell or own them in the entire country, yet the attackers in French attacks have had them.
Criminals always get the weapons

[Bad Dog]

103. They couldn't get them over here.

No guns used in the 7/7 attacks. The reason they got them in France was because of lax laws in other EU nations and inadequate border control.

[Angel Martin]

106. I hope that continues to be true

but if illegal immigrants can get into the UK, semi auto rifles certainly can

[Bad Dog]

118. Is it worth the risk?

The ringleader of Britain’s biggest known gun-smuggling operation has been sentenced to 35 years in jail for shipping £100,000 worth of weapons from the same source used in the Charlie Hebdo terror attack.


Harry Shilling bragged “we [are] now officially gangsters” after 22 assault rifles and nine Skorpion sub-machine guns from eastern Europe sailed up the river Medway from Boulogne in France.


The 26-year-old and Michael Defraine, 30, were found guilty of gun smuggling and possessing firearms with intent to endanger life following a trial at the Old Bailey held amid almost unprecedented security.


Shilling was handed a sentence of 30 years in jail, plus five years on extended licence, while Defraine was given 27 years in jail, plus five years on extended licence.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/03/gun-smuggling-ringleader-harry-shilling-jailed

[Angel Martin]

149. so a jail sentence for gun smuggling

is going to deter a suicide terrorist who is going to go on a rampage in a nightclub in Soho ?

[Bad Dog]

184. No it's not, but it will deter the person thinking of selling illegal guns.

Guns don't play a big part in terrorist offences over here.

[Angel Martin]

185. if the guy is bringing in guns for a suicide mission

"deterrence" isn't going to get it done

[Bad Dog]

196. Clearly you know nothing about how cells operate.

People all have different jobs to do. Gun smugglers aren't suicide bombers, horses for courses.

[Angel Martin]

199. I only know what i read in the papers, for example:

"On March 6, 2012, French lawmakers passed a law tightening up gun regulation and increasing penalties for illegal ownership. Just five days later, Mohamed Merah—a French jihadist of Algerian descent—went on shooting rampage, killing seven people in three separate attacks in around Toulouse before a police sniper shot him dead.

Merah’s arsenal included an AK-47, an Uzi, a Sten submachine gun, a shotgun, and several pistols—all illegal. “He could only supply himself on the black market or from crime organizations, that’s clear,” Thierry Coste, a pro-gun lobbyist, told The Christian Science Monitor."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/13/this-is-how-ak-47s-get-to-paris.html

[Bad Dog]

210. Your source confirms what I just said.

The terrorist got his guns from the black market, he didn't smuggle them in himself. And as the law had only been in effect for five days I suspect he got hold of his guns before then.

[Angel Martin]

211. That's right

he bought his guns illegally on the huge black market for guns in Europe (just like Johnny Jihad in England could and then bring them back to the UK from France).

[Bad Dog]

213. But they don't

because smuggling guns into Britain is no mean feat, especially if you're a jihadist. If it was as easy as you think they would have been used on 7/7. They weren't.

[Angel Martin]

214. any comments ?

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Oakwell+Hall+thriving+with+help+of+volunteers.-a0227735906

[Bad Dog]

215. What's to comment on?

What has a water park got to do with gun control?

[Angel Martin]

216. the point is that an unemployed, socially isolated, chronically depressed,

mentally disabled, socially inept loner managed to get his hands on a gun and shoot and kill an MP, but you are telling me jihadists won't be able to.

[Bad Dog]

217. On a day when we're mourning the death of Jo Cox you decide to make political capital. Shame on you

The difference is someone gets shot in Britain and it makes headlines around the World. Someone gets killed by a gun every day in America and it isn't even reported because it's so commonplace.

Gun control works, it's not 100% effective, but very few thing are.

And it wasn't an assault rifle it was a handgun, most likely from WW2.

[7962]

113. You also live on an island!! Good bit easier to control those borders

But you're correct regarding border control, we're constantly arguing about securing our southern border, so there's another problem we have that isnt being addressed
And what has happened when france even mentions tightening their border? The same thing that happens here; instant cries of "intolerance" and other such BS.

[Bad Dog]

115. Inadequate border control means gun bans in cities like Chicago,

can't realistically be enforced.

[7962]

120. As well as a gun ban nationwide

The genie is already out of the bottle. Sure, if we'd never had any guns here there would be less killing.
But since they're already HERE, changing the law will only make them go underground and insure that the worst elements of society are ALWAYS well armed.
This guy may be attached to any group or none; I think more likely he's got a mental issue. Which brings up a whole different problem

[ck4829]

142. Could say that same exact thing about any person or group that is part of this

Full disclosure, as I'm wading into this, guns are not any real focus of mine. But I feel like I have to say this...

Guns are already here; so are immigrants, so are refugees, so are Muslims, and so are the mentally ill. If regulations, controls, and bans can serve to drive guns underground and bring out the worst elements surrounding them, if something was proposed (Which I totally disagree with by the way, does need to be said) for these groups of people and carried out then couldn't the same thing happen with them, driving them underground and bringing out worse elements?

[Little Tich]

74. Horrible. Absolutely horrible. n/t

[Bad Dog]

75. Terrorist groups like IS and Al Qaida would welcome a Trump victory.

They've long tried to push a narrative that the West, and America in particular, is anti Islam, all Islam, not just the jihadis. A Trump victory would make that narrative more believable.

[ck4829]

99. That's why we absolutely can not give them this

They aren't the guardians of Islam, they fanatically cling to a very nationalistic and fundamentalist version of Sunni Islam. These people don't care, even if you are a Muslim, the second you disagree with them, you become a 'heretic' worthy of death. I think this system will collapse eventually, that Daesh is just another stage before it descends into anarchy before metaphorical and even literal mass suicide. But I think telling them that we are the "Us" and Muslims are the "Them" will keep them going on just a little longer, giving them an enemy they desperately need.

[Bad Dog]

102. Dubya did exactly what Al Qaida wanted

by turning Iraq into a jihadi stronghold. Trump won't be any different. I hope America does the right thing and keeps Trump out of the Whitehouse.

[chernabog]

80. I'm in shock

I can't believe this happened in my city, a club I've driven by countless times

[mcar]

137. Me too

My son is in school there.

[onehandle]

83. Time to crack down on guns. Register all guns and guns owners. Require automobile level insurance.

Create public databases to see how dangerous your neighbors are.

No conflict with the 2nd Amendment there.

[Angel Martin]

89. I know,

we could copy the gun laws of France.

That will eliminate attacks by fanatics on concerts and clubs... oh, wait

[catnhatnh]

107. Brilliant thinking!

"I know! Let's create an on-line database so those who need to steal a large volume of guns don't have to waste time..."

[onehandle]

111. Also laws requiring vaults and security systems for guns.

Freedumb isn't free.

[Orrex]

155. If you can't keep your guns secured, then you don't deserve to own them

And if you have so many unsecured firearms that someone can "steal a large volume of guns," then you represent an active danger to society.

Act like a responsible gun owner and act responsibly in the ownership of your guns. The deliberate failure to secure your guns adequately is exclusively your own.

[hack89]

108. The ACLU would disagree

They oppose registration on privacy grounds.

[hack89]

109. Adam Laza's guns were registered. nt

[NickB79]

125. Liability insurance isn't applicable in a crime, though

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liability_insurance#Insurable_risks

Generally, liability insurance covers only the risk of being sued for negligence or strict liability torts, but not any tort or crime with a higher level of mens rea. This is usually mandated by the policy language itself or case law or statutes in the jurisdiction where the insured resides or does business.

In other words, liability insurance does not protect against liability resulting from crimes or intentional torts committed by the insured. This is intended to prevent criminals, particularly organised crime, from obtaining liability insurance to cover the costs of defending themselves in criminal actions brought by the state or civil actions brought by their victims. A contrary rule would encourage the commission of crime, and allow insurance companies to indirectly profit from it, by allowing criminals to insure themselves from adverse consequences of their own actions.

It should be noted that crime is not uninsurable per se. In contrast to liability insurance, it is possible to obtain loss insurance to compensate one's losses as the victim of a crime.

If I intentionally drove my car through a group of people and killed them, my automobile insurance would refuse to pay any claims, as they should. So why do you think that a gun insurance policy would act differently?

The only reason to propose insurance on gun ownership is to make it expensive for poor people to own firearms, leaving gun ownership solely to the rich. Not a very progressive stance, I might add.

[onehandle]

129. Tough shit.

Pay up, gun culture.

[NickB79]

135. I have no problem with new gun control laws

Universal background checks are a no-brainer. I'd be fine with returning to the 10-round magazine limit we had under the 1994 AWB as well.

But some of the ones you are suggesting are either inapplicable to preventing more gun violence, or just flat-out illegal. Your argument that we completely rework the way liability insurance works would be a godsend for organized crime, and almost certainly opposed by justices on both the left and right.

Good luck getting a judge to accept your claims with an argument of "tough shit, your honor."

[Elmergantry]

127. Can we require the same for abortion?

No conflict with rights there, correct?

[Orrex]

156. Yes, there are countless examples of women shooting up nightclubs with abortions

What a fucked up, bullshit comparison, and I note that it's suddenly quite popular among gun advocates. Curious. Which Rightwing media outlet spoon-fed that mantra to you?

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

188. I had not heard that unmitigated bullshit being spewed before.

Unfuckingbelieveable.

[Orrex]

195. Yeah, it's disgusting.

I've seen it at least three separate times from three separate posters today.

No tactic is too cheap or too exploitative for those who want to remind us that we must first and foremost protect the guns.

[Odin2005]

146. That's some pretty totalitarian shit, there.

I bet you supported the "USA PATRIOT Act", too.

[Orrex]

157. Bullshit.

It's a requirement that gun owners be held responsible in the ownership of their guns. If they can't be responsible for their guns, then they aren't qualified to own them.

It's "totalitarian" only in a bullshit far-Right Libertarian mindset, and it's amazing that we see so much of that kneejerk pro-gun reaction on DU every time a mass shooting occurs.

[Sand Rat Expat]

159. So if you require insurance to own a gun...

In what way is that substantially different from a "poll tax" that must be paid before a person can vote?

[Orrex]

161. Why don't you tell us why you think that it's similar?

[Sand Rat Expat]

167. The similarities are pretty obvious, aren't they?

The current interpretation of the Second Amendment is that owning a gun is a right. Voting is also a right. Placing a financial barrier in a citizen's path before they can exercise a right pretty much undermines the entire concept of a right. As another poster rightly pointed out, requiring insurance in order to own a gun would essentially block the poor from being able to own a gun.

I don't own guns and don't care to do so, but what is done to restrict one right could be done to restrict others. I'll say that having emigrated to Canada, it is rather nice not having to wonder at any given moment how many people around me are packing heat, because the answer is "Not very many, if any at all."

But like it or not, this is the way SCOTUS has interpreted the Second Amendment. Until that interpretation changes, any attempt to require gun insurance would be struck down as unconstitutional, and rightly so. So the way forward is either a) elect progressives in order to change the makeup of the SCOTUS and thus change the interpretation, or b) repeal the Second Amendment.

[Orrex]

169. No, not really.

Since the SCOTUS has already determined that the Constitution permits that certain requirements must be met in order to legally obtain firearms (background checks, licensing, etc.), then it's clear that requiring insurance would likewise be Constitutionally permissible. Further, many jurisdictions already charge for firearm permits, whereas it is illegal to charge for voter registration.

In short, the analogy fails in every way that is meaningful, so the analogy can be abandoned.

[Sand Rat Expat]

177. If you say so.

Just because SCOTUS has determined that certain requirements must be met in order to legally obtain firearms doesn't mean that they'll allow insurance to be one of those requirements. They might or they might not, but it isn't "clear" that it would be Constitutionally permissible.

Secondly, likening a one-time registration or permit fee to an insurance premium is absurd. The former is, as I noted, a one-time fee. The latter is an ongoing obligation that will rapidly outpace the cost of the registration fee, especially if the premium goes up the more guns one owns, which it probably would. You're equating going to see a movie in the theater one time to paying for a monthly cable subscription.

Lastly, I notice that you didn't address at all the point that if such costly insurance were required to legally own a firearm, it would essentially block the poor from being able to exercise a Constitutional right.

[Orrex]

179. Sure, whatever.

Just because SCOTUS has determined that certain requirements must be met in order to legally obtain firearms doesn't mean that they'll allow insurance to be one of those requirements. They might or they might not, but it isn't "clear" that it would be Constitutionally permissible.

The SCOTUS itself has set the precedent by allowing the requirement of fees and the jumping-through of various hoops. Nothing suggests that insurance is inconsistent with this, so it would be up to the claimant to make that argument.

Secondly, likening a one-time registration or permit fee to an insurance premium is absurd.

If it's absurd, then why did you make that same comparison to a poll tax? Also, you're aware that some states (Tennessee, for example) charge renewal fees, right? So it's absolutely not a one-time fee.

Lastly, I notice that you didn't address at all the point that if such costly insurance were required to legally own a firearm, it would essentially block the poor from being able to exercise a Constitutional right.

Nice try, but the law could easily be written to require insurance for all firearms used or transported on public thoroughfares (streets, sidewalks, etc.) in much the same way that you can drive your vehicle on private property without insurance. That presents no hindrance to gun ownership regardless of income level.

[Sand Rat Expat]

203. Looks to me like we'll have to agree to disagree. NT

[bigmonkey]

183. Re-interpret it.

In the earlier part of the 20th century, sensible regulation of guns was not very controversial, as I recall. The current interpretation ignores the entire contextualization of the intent of the amendment - the reference to "well-regulated militia".

I never noticed this before, strangely, but the 2nd Amendment does not have any language in it about owning a gun. Keep, bear, but no ownership or purchase. Ownership is implied, not explicit.

[Sand Rat Expat]

202. That's why I say vote progressive.

The only way the current interpretation is going to change is if the SCOTUS has more progressive justices. But under the current interpretation, I don't see many of these suggestions happening, nor do I see it as very likely that the Second Amendment will be repealed or altered.

[lancer78]

170. And none of those things

would have prevented this tragedy.

[allan01]

85. does not compute

[Bernardo de La Paz]

91. I have a Pulse. Je suis Charlie. Boston Strong. Remain Calm and Carry On. . . nt

[SwankyXomb]

150. Until the next time

And the next time. And the next time, ad infinitum.

[blackspade]

97. Fucking tragic.

for the victims

[Marthe48]

101. Every single day

A story like this is news. I get the same sick feeling each time, the same feeling as hearing about the OK. City bombing, the towers, every day that the news has a story of people getting shot and killed, or bombed and killed. The loss of life is atrocious. The effect of sorrow and anger is an unbearable weight, because there is no leadership to discourage individual violence against other individuals. Nobody in power wants to stop this slaughter. When is enough enough?

[onehandle]

105. 'Second Amendment Remedies' mt

[brooklynite]

112. NBC: Shooter's father: "he got angry last week when he saw two men kissing"

[JudyM]

117. Well that answers that question.

[TimeToEvolve]

119. holy shit!

this can be seen as the litmus test! the guns/2A sector is totally incapable of self-regulation and responsibility whatsoever, in fact quite the opposite! the whole NRA shit fest acts as a magnet for all sorts of loonies. it should have been reigned in years ago.

[ck4829]

121. Throw your life away over that... Unbelievable, but somehow, it is not.

[NutmegYankee]

123. This is what I feared.

I was concerned our victory in the culture wars would lead some to terrorism. Because that's what terrorism is: a tactic of the weak.

Why the fuck can't people just let others live as they please? Why the incessant need to control others and make them conform?

[csziggy]

124. And the MSNBC reporter immediately changed his reporting

To a reduced level of concern about possible terrorism. He did say it "might" be a hate crime but kind of blew that off.

Shooting ONE HUNDRED people, killing half of them is TERRORISM. If the motive is hatred of a specific category of people, the it is also a HATE CRIME. Those are not mutually exclusive.

For the victims and their families.

[Crabby Appleton]

116. Mayor now says 50 dead. nt

[Marrah_G]

132. 50....50

Will anything be done now? probably not.

[spinbaby]

139. I had thought that must be a mistake

When I turned on the TV and saw 50 dead, I thought it must have been a mistake, that there couldn't have been that many dead.

[7962]

165. Sadly, no. Dammit.

[yuiyoshida]

122. shooter identified as

Omar Saddiqui Mateen

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/12/omar-mateen-id-d-as-orlando-killer.html?via=FB_Page&source=TDB

[Blue_Tires]

136. Shooter was studying criminal justice at a local JuCo

And was working as a "security guard"...

Remind you of anyone????

[laserhaas]

140. There are no words that can give solace to victims of such horror

But better control of guns would be a great place to start

[FrodosPet]

208. We must give the police more authority and resources to control guns

The police, FBI, and ATF need a lot more money and manpower for surveillance of social media and other communications channels. They need more personnel to infiltrate potentially violent anti-government, racist, and Christian organizations. They need to use civil forfeiture of the assets of illegal gun owners.

The more power the police have, the safer we will be.

[laserhaas]

212. There's no need for automatic weapons

WhatSoEver

[AC_Mem]

141. My heart is broken

And I'm terrified, we are here in my room, my 16 year old grandson and I, watching the news. I'm crying... He is gay and we live here in orlando. I'm telling him honey please please promise me you will take care!

My god if anything ever happened to him... My god. Because someone loves who they love, someone thinks they deserve to die???

My heart goes out to each family member who is mourning this morning in orlando. My heart aches for every victim in this tragedy.

Annette in Orlando, safe with Trevor

[smirkymonkey]

192. Annette, I am so glad Trevor is safe.

Please take care of him. My best to both of you!

[romanic]

145. Terrible terrible terrible.

This is one of the most tragic attacks on the lgbt community here in the states. I'm just stunned.

[Odin2005]

147. Bigots gonna bigot.

[RogerM]

148. Radical Islam

Links to ISIS - Radical Islam as per ABC - Licensed to carry gun - US born citizen

[yurbud]

158. yeah, like no Fox News viewer would do shit like this.

[Indydem]

176. Care to cite an instance where a Faux News viewer killed 50+?

Let's keep the hyperbole somewhat grounded in something resembling reality.

[Elmergantry]

200. So which of these three is the problem?

Legal Gun ownership

US born citizen

Radical(aka "orthodox&quot Islam?

[GulfCoast66]

163. I live in the Orlando area

And have quite a few co-workers that frequent that establishment. I am usually not a worrier but I dread going to work tomorrow to find out someone I know has been hurt or killed.

Just one more episode brought to us by religion.

[Beacool]

166. Horrible!!!

I only found out about it when the pastor at church asked us to pray for the victims of the attack. How can someone be filled with so much hatred to drive to another town with the sole intention to kill as many gay people as he could???

Sick world we live in.

May the victims rest in peace. My condolences to their families.

[Red Knight]

168. No end in sight

To this senseless violence.

My sympathies to anyone who has lost loved ones. Another sad day in America.

[Pathwalker]

187. I am so sorry. So tragic.

x50+

[RogerM]

193. Omar Mateen legally purchased a handgun and a long gun within the last few days

Omar Mateen legally purchased a handgun and a long gun within the last few days, ATF Assistant Special Agent in Charge Trevor Velinor told reporters on Sunday.

"He is not a prohibited person," Velinor said.

The FBI interviewed Mateen in 2013 and 2014, FBI Assistant Special Agent in Charge Ronald Hopper said.

"Those interviews turned out to be inconclusive, so there was nothing to keep the investigation going," Hopper said.

Mateen was not under investigation at the time of Sunday's shooting and was not under surveillance.

[tenderfoot]

194. At least he doesn't hate cops like most people here.

[Blandocyte]

198. We have such a fun cool country

and a-holes who take advantage of our freedoms to use them against us. Sadness.

[AJ.Akia]

206. OMG how horrible...

My heart breaks for the victims and their families ... :'(