Congress Is ‘Complicit’ In Orlando Slaughter, Senator Says

[Stuart G]

Source: Huff Post

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/orlando-shooting-chris-murphy-newtown_us_575d7c97e4b0e39a28add74f

Sen. Chris Murphy, who represents Newtown, Connecticut, blamed lawmakers for failing to curb gun violence.

Sen. Chris Murphy, who represents Newtown, Connecticut, blamed lawmakers for failing to curb gun violence. Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) accused Congress of being “complicit” in the murder of at least 50 people early Sunday at an Orlando club, citing its “deafening silence” on gun violence.

Murphy, a vocal gun control advocate, represents the community of Newtown, where a gunman fatally shot 20 children and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School in 2012.

“This phenomenon of near constant mass shootings happens only in America – nowhere else,” Murphy said in a statement on Sunday. “Congress has become complicit in these murders by its total, unconscionable deafening silence. This doesn’t have to happen, but this epidemic will continue without end if Congress continues to sit on its hands and do nothing – again.”

A gunman killed 50 people and injured at least 53 at Pulse, a gay nightclub in downtown Orlando, in what police are calling the worst shooting in American history. Authorities say Omar Mateen stormed the club around 2 a.m. Sunday and opened fire. He was later killed by police.

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/orlando-shooting-chris-murphy-newtown_us_575d7c97e4b0e39a28add74f

---

[Squinch]

1. Senator Murphy is absolutely right.

[sheshe2]

3. I concur, Squinch.

[brer cat]

34. I agree. nt

[askeptic]

2. Supreme Court Decision on 2nd Amendment

Constitutional rights can be removed only by changing the Constitution, not by passing laws. Otherwise there would be no Bill of Rights.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller

[Mojorabbit]

4. Local new says he had a state firearm license and a security guard license

so he passed all the background checks. While new laws may help some shootings, it appears it would not have helped in this case.

[A HERETIC I AM]

9. It's completely absurd, but your post got alerted on

On Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:42 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Supreme Court Decision on 2nd Amendment
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1485879

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

this belongs in the gungeon

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jun 12, 2016, 12:47 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Good to know! So we need to further fine-tune the Constitution then. Enhance and update the Bill of Rights.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: How in the world does this post rise to the level of being subject to alert?

"Belongs in the gungeon"? It's a response to the OP, for crying out loud.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

[Duckhunter935]

27. Well someone can't alert

For 24 hours

[askeptic]

44. Wow! I guess demagogue-ing the issue raises more money

Sen. Murphy is certainly smart enough to know that none of the restrictions he has proposed would have prevented this tragedy.

He is also smart enough to know that once the SC has spoken, it takes an Amendment to fix things. Laws can't override the Constitution on the 2nd any more than they can on the 1st or any other. Reasonable restrictions are in place. People need to accept the court's interpretation on this, LBGT rights , same-sex marriage, etc. There just seem to be people, no matter their political bent, that seem to just refuse to accept inconvenient truths.

The Senator knows this because he understands it'll take a Constitutional Amendment to overcome corporate personhood as the SC has furthered with the Citizen United decision. He is a co-sponsor of just such an amendment. So he surely understands the significance of the SC 2nd Amendment decisions. Oh well...

[MyNameGoesHere]

10. The 18th amendment was repealed

because of the rampant violence it helped creat. I feel the same about the 2nd. It's time for it to go. It has aided in terrorist acts, general mayhem, and a direct threat to citizens being safe.

[Indydem]

21. The amendment itself is not creating violence.

It may be facilitating the crazy intentions of a few, but the amendment itself is blameless.

More freedom or less freedom?

Repeal 2A = less freedom.

21A = more freedom.

[Duckhunter935]

28. Then it goes back to the states

[charliea]

61. Almost right, it's the Supreme Court's interpretation that counts.

Remember up until the Heller decision the prevailing view of the court was that the 2nd amendment was a single statement. and 'well regulated', meant that controls could be imposed on gun usage and display, and ownership could be dependent on required training.

I'm probably too old to see it reversed, it took 60 years to overturn Plessy v. Ferguson and I don't have that much time left.

And speaking of well regulated look what Australia did when they had a mass shooting in Port Arthur in 1996:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/05/world/australia/australia-gun-ban-shooting.html?_r=0

The political will to do that is not here, where lost lives are just the cost of freedom (ask the NRA). So now we're living where all of us have to be ready at any time to die for someone's 'freedom'.

[mcar]

5. He is absolutely right

And I expect he'll be vilified for it.

[One_Life_To_Give]

6. As a Private Security Guard

he would of already had a background check. Didn't see anything proposed that would have likely prevented him from acquiring a firearm.

[KPN]

7. You tell them Senator Murphy!

Shame on the all.

[Archae]

8. According to Raw Story, the shooter's father says two guys kissing set him off.

Face it.
The guy was an asshole.

Congress is not to blame.
The AR-15 is not to blame.

The SHOOTER is to blame. Period.

[L. Coyote]

13. The shooter is part of a society, and society is to blame, culture is to blame, schools are to blame

No one exists in a vacuum.

[beevul]

17. The shooters decisions were his and his alone.

The shooters decisions were his and his alone. He and he alone is responsible for making them.

[L. Coyote]

19. If you say so.

Not!

[beevul]

20. Ok. Whats your part of the responsiblity...?

How are you responsible for the decisions of the shooter?

[justiceischeap]

23. As US citizens we can absolutely be held responsible for not making this a priority

with our legislators. If enough people demanded some common-sense gun laws, that don't get in the way of the 2nd amendment, this problem may be eradicated. For example, we can demand that these AR-15's be banned from ownership by average citizens. It doesn't stop people from owning any other firearm, they just can't have this one. That's something we could all do and demand. Doing less does make us, in many ways, culpable.

[beevul]

24. Explain to me...

Explain to me, how someone already willing to commit murder is going to obey whatever gun laws you propose?


I'm all ears.

[justiceischeap]

25. Sure, the perfect example is what happened on the day of Sandy Hook

In Newtown, CT someone willing to commit murder went into a school and shot 26 people--adults and children. 26 people + his mother died.

In Japan, on the same day, a man willing to commit murder went into a school with a knife and stabbed 24 people. No fatalities.

Then look at any other 1st world nation that has restrictive gun laws... are there still people breaking those gun laws? Hell yes but it isn't easy. So why do we demand making this easy is the obvious answer? Why are there arguments such as yours instead of trying to find ways to work within our laws to make this issue go away (or at the very least not happen every god damned day in the US)?

[beergood]

39. paris france

muslim terrorists illegally acquired firearms and explosives killing 130 people. its my understanding that its very difficult to legally purchase firearms in france.

if this guy was a security guard, than that means he passed some pretty strict background checks. so even if the 2nd were repelled he still could have acquired any firearm of his choosing.

[LiberalLovinLug]

68. Its difficult to prove a negative

Like how many more terrorist attacks with guns there would have been already in France without their gun laws? If you go by killings with firearms per capita, outside of terrorism, and compare that to USA figures, it indicates that gun control works better than not.

No one is saying that bad people may not still do everything they can to acquire guns even with the strictest gun controls. But if you make it as difficult as possible, you are reducing the possibilities. Also other parts of the equation is that there are simply less guns, legal and illegal floating around in a country to be stolen or sold. And also that law enforcement can isolate and focus more on specialized smuggling operations.

[TNNurse]

58. The shooter who owned an AR-15 is to blame.

[Vinca]

11. Agreed. Civilians do not need assault rifles.

[L. Coyote]

12. Time to send the assault weapon supporters packing.

[Archae]

15. One serious question...

HOW?

Going to have the cops go door-to-door confiscating assault rifles?

[L. Coyote]

16. Vote them out of Congress was my point.

[SwankyXomb]

26. We could start

by having Skinner boot them from this site.

[Duckhunter935]

29. And ignore the Democratic platform

And president Obama who agrees with the 2nd amendment and the RKBA.

[Initech]

14. Every single senator and Congressperson with an NRA A+ rating is now an enemy.

Time to vote every single god damn one of them out of office. Fuck the NRA.

[SwankyXomb]

53. Blood all over their money grubbing hands

[alarimer]

64. I would make than anyone above an F rating.

If they get anything positive from the NRA, they should go.

It's the 2nd Amendment that's the problem. It needs to go.

[Initech]

66. No arguments here! Fuck the NRA!

[tabasco]

18. The truth will fall on deaf ears, as usual.

The decline of America will continue unimpeded.

[AlbertCat]

22. Congress continues to sit on its hands and do nothing – again.”

With congress since 2008, this applies to a myriad of things.

We should demand our money back since they don't do their jobs. No, not that they do their job badly... they simply DON'T DO IT.

[mountain grammy]

30. Assault weapons used to be banned

they didn't disappear, but there were less of them. Since the idiots in Congress let the assault weapons ban expire, mass shootings have increased dramatically. Cause and effect.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-a-tures/did-the-assault-weapons-b_b_9740352.html

[hack89]

49. There is a fundamental flaw in that analysis

most mass shootings are done by handguns. Another flaw is that the number of AR-15 type rifles actually went up during the AWB. The law was so poorly written the gun makers only needed to make minor cosmetic changes to their rifles. The rifle used by Adam Lanza would have been legal during the AWB. It was legal under CT much tougher AWB.

[Nancyswidower]

31. Just a question...this freak had passed Fed NICS chks to get his gun clearances

for a Company that had Federal Security contracts..had just recently purchased firearms...had been under earlier FBI investigations that went nowhere..

How is anyone besides this sick SOB and his radical hatred and self proclaimed allegiances responsible?

[Skittles]

43. why does ANYONE need an AR-15?

WHY?

[Nancyswidower]

45. Need...I don't believe that is a standard requirement for any "Right"

The 4th isn't limited by a "need" of a person to be secure from unreasonable search and seizure
The 1st isn't limited by a "need" to peaceably assemble
The 5th isn't limited by a "need" to show cause to not incriminate oneself

Need is not a Constitutional standard.

[Skittles]

46. ALRIGHTY THEN

FEAR AND PARANOIA TRUMP ALL

*DONE HERE*

[Nancyswidower]

47. If you are making Rights a need issue..that's your fear.

I don't have to show a cop or some nut why I "need" to show a Bernie of Hillary sign in public come election day.

[Archae]

60. We don't. But people want them. They are expensive toys, that can be lethal.

Just like SAV's. (Suburban Assault Vehicles, I hate them due to being a bicyclist.)
People don't need them, but they want them.
Another expensive toy that can be lethal.

I keep seeing people saying the AR-15 should be banned.
My question, how?

Have the cops go door-to-door searching houses for guns that look a certain way?

[scottie55]

32. Perhaps Some Of The "Kill The Gays" Rhetoric From Jeezusland or Muzzlimland Got To Him

So many preaching hate.

So many frustrated people.

That is an even bigger problem.

I have a great idea.

Make ALL PEOPLE practice Buddhism worldwide.

Buddhists don't kill anyone for any reason.

Strange isn't it?

Jeezus, and Mohammad's followers seem to want to kill everything in sight from Baghdad to Aleppo to Jerusalem to Texas.

[beergood]

40. "Buddhists don't kill anyone for any reason."

not true, Buddhists in Burma are killing muslims. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22356306

all humans are capable of hate and violence no matter their race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, gender orientation, or social/economic status.

[greyl]

55. Let me guess; they'll say "they aren't real Buddhists."

Buddhism and violence
But Buddhism, like the other great faiths, has not always lived up to its principles - there are numerous examples of Buddhists engaging in violence and even war.

* in the 14th century Buddhist fighters led the uprising that evicted the Mongols from China

* in Japan, Buddhist monks trained Samurai warriors in meditation that made them better fighters

* In the twentieth century Japanese Zen masters wrote in support of Japan's wars of aggression. For example, Sawaki Kodo (1880–1965) wrote this in 1942:

"It is just to punish those who disturb the public order. Whether one kills or does not kill, the precept forbidding killing . It is the precept forbidding killing that wields the sword. It is the precept that throws the bomb."

* In Sri Lanka the 20th century civil war between the mostly Buddhist Sinhalese majority and the Hindu Tamil minority has cost 50,000 lives.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/ethics/war/buddhism.shtml

‘If ordered to march: tramp, tramp or shoot: bang, bang. This is the manifestation of the highest wisdom of enlightenment. The unity of Zen and war ... extends to the farthest reaches of the holy war now under way.’ (Zen Master Harada Daiun Sogaku – 1939).

‘Warriors who sacrifice their lives for the emperor will not die. They will live forever. Truly they should be called gods and Buddhas for whom there is no life or death. Where there is absolute loyalty there is no life or death.’ (Lieutenant Colonel Sugimoto Goro)

‘Since the Meiji period, our (Soto Zen) sect has cooperated in waging war.’ (Soto Zen Statement of Repentance – 1992).
http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/library/links/zenatwar....

Of course, that's not to say that there aren't Buddhist quotes and dogma that have peaceful messages. But ideals, words, and actions are different things, aren't they? In the end, Buddhism is a salvationist religion like Islam and Christianity.
"all life is suffering"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x47015

[catbyte]

33. Why does any law abiding citizen need an AR-15 with a clip that spews 30 rounds without reloading?

Please, where in the Second Amendment does it guarantee THAT particular "freedom"? It's fucking insane. My dad was a cop and I grew up around guns; I've known how to use one since I was 8 years old. This whole "no gun control anywhere whatsoever" madness has got to stop. We need to do what they did in Australia and ban all assault/multi-round, semi-automatic weapons. There hasn't been a mass shooting in Australia in 20 years after they said that enough is enough. There is no shortage of guns or gun violence there now, but these mass casualty incidents have been stopped. We can and must do it here.

[brer cat]

35. Good post, catbyte.

I agree with you. It is way too easy for people to acquire weapons that can kill large numbers of people very quickly.

[ManiacJoe]

38. What is so special about an AR-15 that it needs more restrictions

than other semi-auto rifles?

[catbyte]

62. I wasn't specifically targeting that particular model & I think you know that.

[ManiacJoe]

63. And yet you did exactly that.

[catbyte]

65. So you want me to list every fucking semiautomatic, multiple clip weapon in a short message? Don't

be obtuse. You seem to be pulling the same semantics bullshit that ammosexuals love to pull. Tell me you're not that freaking childish.

[ManiacJoe]

67. If you meant to say

"we should ban all semi-auto rifles that accept detachable magazines", then that is what you should have said.
Saying "we should ban AR-15 style rifles" while allowing all other semi-auto carbines is just silly since there is nothing special about AR-15 rifles.

Words have meanings; pick the right words for your thoughts.

If you want to have a technical discussion on guns -- or any topic -- you first need to educate yourself on that topic so that you are capable of having the technical discussion.

On the other hand, not all discussions need to be technical.

[dickthegrouch]

36. I entirely agree.

Every member of congress and the entire fucking NRA should be named as co-conspirators and charged and jailed for this and all other gun-related crimes.
The car driver in a bank robbery goes down for collusion oro being an accessory after the fact. So should every NRA goon out there.

[beergood]

41. sorry , a little bored and playing around with the reply functions.

jhjhj fd dsa

asda asdfgdf

asdfd

[tarheelsunc]

37. Wow.

Some of the responses in this thread are blatant right-wing talking points. Embarrassing.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

42. He's not supposed to call it an "epidemic" of gun violence

Congress passed a law preventing the CDC from studying whether the level of violence in this country rises to the level of "epidemic."

[Odin2005]

48. The only people complicit in this is the shooter and his IS buddies.

[bvar22]

50. Not entirely true.

Spree Killings/Massacres have occurred in other countries in modern times.

"Over the decade and a half studied, the researchers found 23 incidents of mass shootings in the other 10 countries, resulting in 200 dead and 231 wounded. In the United States over the same period, there were 133 incidents that left 487 dead and 505 wounded.

Here are a just a few examples of mass shootings in other countries:

• On July 22, 2011, a total of 80 people were killed in Norway when Anders Behring Breivik, a political extremist, bombed a government building in Oslo and then went on a shooting rampage on the island of Utoya, just outside the city.

• On March 11, 2009, in Winnenden, Germany, a teenage gunman killed 15 people. The majority of the victims were children and teachers killed when the shooter opened fire in three classrooms in a local secondary school. The gunman shot two other people before killing himself after being cornered by the local police.

• On Sept. 23, 2008, in Kuahajoki, Finland, a gunman shot 10 people to death after opening fire on a classroom in the Kuahajoki School of Hospitality. After killing the students, the shooter burned the victims’ bodies.

In sum, then, Obama is wrong to say that "this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries." Clearly it does happen elsewhere, and not in trivial numbers. Seven of the countries saw double-digit numbers of people killed in mass shootings during that period.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jun/22/barack-obama/barack-obama-correct-mass-killings-dont-happen-oth/

"

On April 28, 1996, a gunman opened fire on tourists in a seaside resort in Port Arthur, Tasmania. By the time he was finished, he had killed 35 people and wounded 23 more. It was the worst mass murder in Australia’s history.

Twelve days later, Australia’s government did something remarkable. Led by newly elected conservative Prime Minister John Howard, it announced a bipartisan deal with state and local governments to enact sweeping gun-control measures. A decade and a half hence, the results of these policy changes are clear: They worked really, really well.

At the heart of the push was a massive buyback of more than 600,000 semi-automatic shotguns and rifles, or about one-fifth of all firearms in circulation in Australia. The country’s new gun laws prohibited private sales, required that all weapons be individually registered to their owners, and required that gun buyers present a “genuine reason” for needing each weapon at the time of the purchase. (Self-defense did not count.) In the wake of the tragedy, polls showed public support for these measures at upwards of 90 percent.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2012/12/16/gun_control_after_connecticut_shooting_could_australia_s_laws_provide_a.html

The reasons I posted this are manifold,
but the main reason is to highlight that this is another case of American Exceptionalism that excludes us from using what has proven to work in other countries (like Health Care, Universal Education, etc).

[ButterflyBlood]

51. Guess who I've been wanting as the VP on the Democratic ticket this year for awhile?

He continues to impress.

[David__77]

54. Nonsense.

The shooting did the shooting, and in support of Islamic State. I find this statement of his obnoxious.

[LostOne4Ever]

56. LOCKING THREAD AS ANALYSIS/OPINION (Lock-Retracted)

Last edited Mon Jun 13, 2016, 07:55 AM - Edit history (1)

This post has been retracted:

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=crimson][center]It is the consensus of the Hosting forum at this time to LOCK this thread as OPINION/ANALYSIS.[/center][/font]

[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=about&forum=1014[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]Post the latest news from reputable mainstream news websites and blogs. Important news of national interest only. No analysis or opinion pieces. No duplicates. News stories must have been published within the last 12 hours. Use the published title of the story as the title of the discussion thread.

[LostOne4Ever]

57. UNLOCKING THREAD

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=crimson]More hosts have come online and expressed concern that this was a hasty or bad lock. As such, I am now unlocking this thread for the time being.

With that, let me personally extend my apologies for the lock.

Sincerely,

Lost.[/font]

[TryLogic]

59. Damn right, congress is complicit.