Led Zeppelin did not steal 'Stairway' riff, jurors say
Source: Reuters
The guitar riff Led Zeppelin used in the 1971 classic "Stairway to Heaven" differed substantially from one the English band was accused of stealing from the U.S. group Spirit, a jury found on Thursday in a copyright infringement trial in Los Angeles.
The decision was a victory for Led Zeppelin, one of the top selling rock acts of all time, after an week-long trial in U.S. District Court in Los Angeles that had called into question the originality of their signature song.
The jury, in their second day of deliberations, found Led Zeppelin's singer Robert Plant and guitarist Jimmy Page had access to Spirit's 1967 song "Taurus" but that the riff they were accused of taking was not intrinsically similar to the opening chords of "Stairway."
Page and Plant, who have attended court since the beginning of the closely-watched trial on June 14, showed little reaction immediately after the verdict was announced in court.
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Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-music-ledzeppelin-idUSKCN0Z914Z
World | Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:50pm EDT
LOS ANGELES | BY PIYA SINHA-ROY
Journeyman
(15,031 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)I'm impressed.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,185 posts)Considering that the songwriter of Taurus, Randy Wolfe, never saw fit to sue for copywrite infringement, I didn't think his family should be able to sue anyway.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)and I don't know much about music or composing it, but there are only so many notes, and a large, but ultimately limited way to combine them.
A while back someone wrote and excellent story set twenty or so years in the future, in which these sorts of lawsuits have brought all new music to a complete stop.
It could happen in the world of fiction, also. While plagiarism is generally quite recognizable, there are only so many ideas out there, and so many words and a large, but ultimately limited way to combine them. I write, and I have often been concerned that I would inadvertently plagiarism something I've totally forgotten that I've read. So far it doesn't seem to have happened, but it could.
I must be getting really old. Stairway to Heaven was routinely picked the #1 rock and roll song when those types of lists are made. You should check it out. In fact, Mary J. Blige does an excellent version of it but Plant & Page and the rest are the best at it.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)due to over exposure. It shocked me to hear someone doesn't know it. It has to be one of the most unavoidable rock songs ever
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)time in years. I was amazed how I still knew all the lyrics. Nobody did rock ballads like Zepp.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)My favorite Zepp song is the Lemon Song (warning, people will say this was stolen, too). The guitar in that song is pretty frenetic. So many great songs that never get heard on the air.
JI7
(89,248 posts)maxsolomon
(33,327 posts)do you live in a cave? are you 7?
JI7
(89,248 posts)Went on during the trial i kind of expected the outcome.
Maybe that's why they went to trial instead of settling it.
brooklynite
(94,520 posts)Did SPIRIT just happen to find their album at a used record store?
PJMcK
(22,035 posts)Blue_Adept
(6,399 posts)Which made it a "new" work.
There've been several of these kinds of attempts made with various remasters hitting in the past couple of decades, hence why some continue to sit in vaults out of fear of lawsuits that would soak up any potential profits. Instead we just get standard streaming/digital versions released instead of cleaned up works.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Nintendo has not re-released their classic 90s roll-playing game Earthbound because a large amounts of it's music rather blatantly sample themes from various popular music songs and they are worried about potential lawsuits.
Blue_Adept
(6,399 posts)Been involved with the anime side for an age and music licenses are a nightmare in general.
cstanleytech
(26,291 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)It's not members of "Spirit" suing, it's trustees who are hoping for some cash payout for a property that isn't exactly making money.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,185 posts)when he was alive, his family has no right to sue now IMHO.
Haveadream
(1,630 posts)Phenomenal band but not cool.
Check out Small Face's version of "You Need Loving" (1966) compared to LZ's "Whole Lotta Love" (1969), originally written by Willie Dixon and performed by Muddy Waters (1963)
sendero
(28,552 posts)... but it is also true of scads of rock/pop musicians. In fact, the line where plagurism begins is pretty fuzzy. Lots of riffs, chord progressions, melody snippets are appropriated all the time. And don't get me started on sampling where some artists think a couple seconds of their songs are worth millions. Kablooee.
For example, I will never believe George Harrison ripped off that girl-band song, but a jury thought otherwise. Putting anything in front of a jury is an exercise in random outcomes.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)...ripped off the music of the Black Blues Men of the 20s and 30s.
The Stones have done it word for word and cord for cord.
"Love in Vain" was lifted straight from Robert Johnson.
sendero
(28,552 posts).... hell the entire British Invasion was basically inspired by Brits loving the American GI music they were hearing. Though most bands moved on from pure blues they almost all started out there. Pink Floyd is named after bluesmen even though their music didn't really sound very blues at least to my ears.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)reorg
(3,317 posts)Much better than the stale, artsy bombast from LZ, IMO.
RelativelyJones
(898 posts)Just retrofunk, too cool for school, Indie stuff. None of the power of the original IMO
LiberalLovinLug
(14,173 posts)and this version is worth listening to but in no way surpasses the original. The vocals of course have not near the power of Robert Plant in his heyday. And its a little odd and amusing to hear a woman sing that song. The lyrics are clearly meant to be sung by a man, a randy randy man.
wild weird stuff!
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)of that song did Willie Dixon "steal"?
Haveadream
(1,630 posts)Willie Dixon was a monumental force in American rock and roll.
William James "Willie" Dixon (July 1, 1915 January 29, 1992) was an American blues musician, vocalist, songwriter, arranger and record producer. A Grammy Award winner who was proficient on both the upright bass and the guitar and as a vocalist, he is perhaps best known as one of the most prolific songwriters of his time. Next to Muddy Waters, Dixon is recognized as the most influential person in shaping the postWorld War II sound of the Chicago blues.
Dixon also was an important link between the blues and rock and roll, working with Chuck Berry and Bo Diddley in the late 1950s. His songs were covered by some of the biggest artists of more recent times, such as Cream, Jeff Beck, the Doors, Led Zeppelin, the Rolling Stones, Steppenwolf, Bob Dylan, and Jimi Hendrix. The debut albums by the first six of those artists all feature at least one of his songs, a measure of his influence on rock music.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Dixon
Here is Muddy Waters singing Dixon's original:
klook
(12,154 posts)Steve Marriott, what a badass. I love the Small Faces... "Tin Soldier," "Itchycoo Park," "Lazy Sunday," and this song - great stuff!
Kind of embarrassing how much Robert Plant stole from this track, right down to the inflection. Oh well, great artists steal, I guess.
Haveadream
(1,630 posts)Lifted the it wholesale, right? Robert Plant's shaking, craving vocals are always iconic but you have to appreciate how Small Faces just badass owned that tune with some cool and sassy!
BobTheSubgenius
(11,563 posts)mainer
(12,022 posts)They just ripped off the original artists and didn't give credit. Kept the same song titles!
Once you get successful, you can get away with anything. Happens all the time in Hollywood too.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)There is nothing else like it!
Lars39
(26,109 posts)mainer
(12,022 posts)They just keep getting away with it.
"Bring it on Home."
"Dazed and Confused":
In documents filed on Monday, Holmes cited a 1967 copyright registration for Dazed and Confused, renewed in 1995. That song, which you can listen to here, was released in 1967 on the San Francisco-born musician's debut album.
In fact, the path that leads from Holmes to Page is very well known. As documented by Perfect Sound Forever magazine, Holmes opened for Page's then-band, the Yardbirds, at a Greenwich Village gig in August 1967. "That was the infamous moment of my life when Dazed and Confused fell into the loving arms and hands of Jimmy Page," Holmes recalled in an interview with Will Shade. Yardbirds drummer Jim McCarty described going to a record shop the next day to buy a copy of Holmes's album. "We decided to do a version," he said. "We worked it out together with Jimmy contributing the guitar riffs in the middle."
DinahMoeHum
(21,784 posts)with law professor Charles Cronin, who teaches at USCs Gould School of Law and has written extensively on this particular subject.
Hes also founder of the Music Copyright Infringement Resource, now housed at USC:
http://mcir.usc.edu/
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,001 posts)colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)Not much of a Zeppelin fan, I am much more a fan of Spirit, but that was a hard case to prove.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)That has being going on since the dawn of time and art would be impossible without it.
mainer
(12,022 posts)But Zeppelin even copied the tunes and THE TITLES of other composers' works -- and had to pay settlements.
w4rma
(31,700 posts)The only problem is that the use of the actual song was actually denied by Led Zeppelin, specifically after the theatrical release, which led to this watered-down alteration:
Fast-forward to this week, when it was discovered that the famous Stairway to Heaven guitar melody is actually in the public domain, which means that Zeppelin had absolutely no right to prevent it from being in Waynes World (or any other movie). Thats because the melody already existed as early as the 1630 (yes, the year 1630), when it was written by Italian composer Giovanni Battista Granata.
Here, check it out around the 0:32 mark.
Which means, one of the most famous scenes can now be restored to its full glory. And the village rejoiced.
http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/04/21/original-stairway-to-heaven-scene-from-waynes-world-is-now-legal/
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)klook
(12,154 posts)A descending chromatic riff, played in arpeggios. That's worthy of a lawsuit? Sheesh.
Spirit was a great band. Sorry to see their music involved in such a trivial exercise in futility.
Notice that "Taurus" includes a descending major scale as well... obviously that's off limits, too!
The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)theme song. Gilligan's Island was first.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)I said this case would never fly in an earlier thread the other week, and got a fair amount of flak for that prediction.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,173 posts)Last edited Thu Jun 23, 2016, 08:23 PM - Edit history (2)
Great artists are inspired by art that has gone on before them, and then transcend those earlier works.
Led Zeppelin did not do covers of previous musicians work, they were inspired by riffs in songs and transformed them into new works of art imo. That is how art should evolve. Yes there is some resemblance in portions of LZ songs, to some of the songs they have been accused of ripping off. But I guess I look at it in the overview of their lifes work. Maybe its more about their 'sound' than anything else, the band as a whole. The magic of the right people coming together at the right time. Because it isn't about if a few notes line up here and there, its about the completed song, and the singer, the instrumentation all in sync. LZ created unique songs and will probably go down as the greatest rock n roll band of all time and deservedly so.
JudyM
(29,236 posts)standard for a copyright violation. When you're dealing with an arpeggio that sounds so unique, and the fact that they performed it when Zepp was right there... I thought it was a no-brainier.
Initech
(100,068 posts)Night Watchman
(743 posts)brooklynite
(94,520 posts)Botany
(70,501 posts)cbdo2007
(9,213 posts)which isn't a bad thing. If Zep had come out and said they had written the one song, that would be copyright infringement. Instead, they probably heard the other song and said that sounds sort of cool, but let's use a similar sound and make it into an amazing song.
rocktivity
(44,576 posts)rocktivity