BBC forecast: UK votes to leave the EU

[AntiBank]

Source: BBC

Based on analysis of the remaining undeclared counts, the BBC forecasts that the UK has voted to leave the European Union.

Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

---

Great blow against neoliberalism and undemocratic corporate systemic control.


The left wing case for leaving the EU
Supporters of the EU sneer “Little Englander” at those with a different opinion, but most of the arguments against membership are left-leaning and liberal.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/06/john-king-left-wing-case-leaving-eu


The Left Case for Brexit

https://www.dissentmagazine.org/online_articles/left-case-brexit


The radical left case for leaving the EU

https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/michael-theodosiadis-sofia-zisi/radical-left-case-for-leaving-eu-comparative-anal


THE EU: ANTI- SOCIALIST AND ANTI-DEMOCRATIC

https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-155b-THE-EU-ANTI-SOCIALIST-AND-ANTI-DEMOCRATIC#.V2RqFLt96Uk


Labour MP Kate Hoey: Why leaving the EU is a left-wing move

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/labour-mp-kate-hoey-why-leaving-the-eu-is-a-left-wing-move-a6687936.html



Exit Left: the Socialist Case for Britain Leaving the EU

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/03/11/exit-left-the-socialist-case-for-britain-leaving-the-eu/

[still_one]

1. Boris Johnson is a Conservative, with some racist tendencies. Interesting that both Murdock and

Johnson supported the BREXIT

[wysi]

2. And Nigel Farage

is a real racist, running a racist political party. Not the sort of person I would be proud to be in agreement with about anything.

[still_one]

15. and Johnson has already offered him a job in Post BRExit. Is it Tabloid or accurate?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/boris-johnson-offers-nigel-farage-8199899

[wysi]

4. Murdoch...

... opposed the EU regulations that would have forced him to pay tax in the UK. And then used his publications to scare people into thinking immigrants were taking their jobs.

[AntiBank]

7. you are applying overly simplistic binary thinking, just because a side I disagree with on most

all other issues agrees with me on the is one does not mean the rationales I posit are illegitimate.

Cognitive dissonance is so apparent from so many on this site.

If you are anti-TPP then you probably should be anti-EU.

Read my links for a cogent left wing argument why this is a good thing.

[nikto]

54. " If you are anti-TPP then you probably should be anti-EU."

I think I get that.

I hate TPP, NAFTA, etc etc.

It's just the xenophobic/rw element's support for Brexit is such an instinctive turnoff (like Trump).

This is a tough one, in some ways.
Not just a black & white issue.


Thanks for the links above (lw arguments for Brexit, etc).

[AntiBank]

55. thanks back

I know it is tough sometimes but politics makes strange bedfellows.

[PaulaFarrell]

56. everything is not black and white

I can be both against ttp and for the EU. Do you really think the Britain will be better than the EU on trade deals? I think you are making judgments without understanding the realities of the UK. Do you honestly think the current government will be better than the EU on any single issue? This vote was anti-immigrant for the vast majority of people voting out. That's the reality.

[brentspeak]

3. If there was only a US referendum to leave the WTO

we might just revive the American middle class.

[swhisper1]

24. agreed, past due, actually

[nikto]

61. Me, three ...

[One_Life_To_Give]

5. Certainly a setback to globalization nt

[swhisper1]

18. thank God

Nationalism isnt a bad thing, but I bet the 3rd wayers are drinking heavily tonight in dispair

[Odin2005]

71. In Europe nationalism IS a really, really bad thing.

European integration and American military hegemony are the primary reasons western Europe has had 70 years of peace and prosperity. If Europeans' nationalist tendencies are not kept in check they will revert back into warmongering idiots before too long.

[swhisper1]

72. just watch and learn

EU just got spanked, they will offer England a fig leaf, then reform their pact for the better

[Kilgore]

78. Agree

[PaulaFarrell]

57. not really

The EU will carry on as before and the UK will enter into its own treaties.

[geek tragedy]

6. The UK is a few hours away from an economic abyss nt

[AntiBank]

8. that fear mongering rhetoric is part of the reason Remain lost

In the mid to long term the UK will be just fine and a far more democratic nation state with a large increase of crucial sovereignty.

[geek tragedy]

10. One with fewer civil liberties and worker protections.

But, hey, FREEDOOOOMMMMMM!!!!!!

[AntiBank]

23. again you fall into false propaganda traps

I wager you are one who simplistically looks at the names of some who lead the Leave campaign and knee jerks against it without looking at left wing and pro democratic arguments for it.

I also would like to ask if you are pro TPP, as that odious trade agreement is every bit part and parcel of the same global neoliberal corporatist project of unaccountable systemic control that the EU is.

[geek tragedy]

27. No I'm talking as someone who understands how many rights will be lost

in the UK because EU rights no longer apply

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/eu-referendum-leave-vote-brexit-workers-rights-time-directive-agency-a7044696.html

[AntiBank]

33. you are simply out of your depth, parroting the duplicitous platitudes of the monied technocratic

Last edited Fri Jun 24, 2016, 12:16 PM - Edit history (1)

class.

The EU doesn't protect workers' rights - it has destroyed them

Freedom of movement is about bosses driving down wages, not holidays

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/06/eu-doesnt-protect-workers-rights-it-has-destroyed-them



A feeble and erroneous argument for supporting the EU – one which is repeatedly used by both government and opposition leaders – is that leaving the EU would damage employment in Britain. This is simply not true. A campaign by Britain in Europe entitled “Out of Europe, Out of Work” claimed that Britain would lose millions of jobs if it left the EU. The National Institute of Economic and Social Research, however, described the campaign as absurd, finding that British withdrawal would have no long-term impact on employment. In the words of its Director, Dr Martin Weale, the campaign was “pure Goebbels” and “a wilful distortion of the facts”.

The European Union is about economics, neoliberal economics, monetarist market capitalism - economics that do not work. It is inherently deflationist. That is to say, it is built on constraining economic demand and driving up unemployment. It is an economics that has failed in the past, is failing again and which has rolled back the successful economic arrangements that worked so well, so brilliantly indeed, in the immediate post-war decades.


This same economics is being inflicted on Britain – cuts and austerity. Living standards have fallen, wages reduced as a proportion of total economic output (GDP) and in real terms, and inequality and poverty increasing. In the rest of the EU however, things are worse, especially in the eurozone.

The EU is not at its core about employment rights, nor even is it about human rights. The EU has accepted employment rights to give the illusion that it is on the side of workers and trade unions – at least slightly – and to try to keep trade unions passive. The millions of unemployed in Spain, Greece and increasingly elsewhere have seen no benefit from alleged worker and trade union rights. In the cases of the Viking Line and Laval, workers tried to contest their employers replacing them with lower-paid workers from another EU country. But the European Court of Justice found in favour of employers rather than workers.


snip


The EU and other neoliberal nightmares

Workers across Europe are rallying against a union which has used its undemocratic structures to force neoliberalism on a continent.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/enrico-tortolano/eu-and-other-neoliberal-nightmares


Voting to leave the EU is a no-brainer for the Left. The European Union is remote, racist, imperialist, anti-worker and anti-democratic: It is run by, of, and for the super-rich and their corporations. A future outside austerity and other economic blunders rests on winning the struggle to exit the EU, removing us from its neoliberal politics and institutions. Corporate bureaucrats in Brussels working as agents of the big banks and transnationals’ now exert control over every aspect of our lives. Neoliberal policies and practices dominate the European Commission, European Parliament, European Central Bank, European Court of Justice and a compliant media legitimises the whole conquest. This has left the EU constitution as the only one in the world that enshrines neoliberal economics into its text. Therefore the EU is not – and never can be – either socialist or a democracy.

Against the left’s strategic case for exit is relentless blither and blather from the elitist liberal commentariat: the EU is a social-democratic haven that protects us from the nasty Tories is their litany and verse. This is an absurd fantasy: by design the EU is a corporatist, pro-capitalist establishment. Therefore, it strains credulity that the bulk of the Parliamentary Labour Party and a rump of the trade union movement believe in the myth of Social Europe. The late Bob Crow was bang on the money when he said: “social EU legislation, which supposedly leads to better working conditions, has not saved one job and is riddled with opt-outs for employers to largely ignore any perceived benefits they may bring to workers. But it is making zero-hour contracts and agency-working the norm while undermining collective bargaining and full-time, secure employment.”

The only thing that should remain is the truth: a social Europe was never part of the European Union super-state project. How could it be? The EU has always travelled on the “free trade” train alongside “free” movement of capital, business-austerity, flexible labour markets, low pay, privatisation of public services and the eradication of welfare states. These were not just random policy proscriptions, but specifically designed by ‘free-market’ fanatics. It was the deepening and integration of the EU project that allowed unelected policy makers, driven by the powerful EU corporate lobby, to circumvent and eradicate the social rights that were won by workers in the aftermath of World-War-Two. Creating democratic deficits in all the EU institutions and policy-making by unaccountable technocrats enabled and accelerated this process of dismantling rights. This arrangement ensured the neoliberal Holy Trinity of public spending cuts, privatisation and the removal of trade union rights could be enforced with little contestation.

It’s worth noting the continuity of contempt by the European Union elites towards public opinion. Jean Monnet the founding father of the EU understood democracy was an obstacle to the elitist project and had to employ a degree of deception: "via money Europe could become political in five years" and "…the current communities should be completed by a Finance Common Market which would lead us to European economic unity. Only then would … the mutual commitments make it fairly easy to produce the political union which is the goal." Jean-Claude Juncker, today’s unelected EU chief makes clear that nothing much has changed, “when it becomes serious, you have to lie”. “There can be no democratic choice against the European treaties.”


snip

[Vote2016]

48. The neoliberals will never come around. They assume if they are pro-choice and anti-discrimination

on the issue of LGBT rights then they meet their own definition of "progressive" and take offense if you expand the debate to include economic justice issues.

[AntiBank]

53. I would add anti-discrimination at racial levels too, they are that (on the good side)

I would also add (on the bad) they are oftimes military interventionist hawks, or at least certainly doff the cap in support of pols who are.

[smirkymonkey]

81. +1000

[swhisper1]

22. agreed

[iandhr]

12. Though it looks like it will be bad for the UK economy...

... the experts didn't see the 2008 crash coming. That is probably why many voters ignored the warnings.


I would have voted remain if I was a UK citizen but I understand why people are angry.


We need to figure out away to address it.

[geek tragedy]

13. Fortunately, the US isn't England, their problems

are not necessarily ours.

[iandhr]

16. The 2008 crash caused a global economic crisis.

Though I agree with you that this is a bad result. I would have voted remain if I was a citizen of the UK, all I am saying is the situation is slightly more complex.

[geek tragedy]

17. Fortunately the US never embraced austerity the way the UK did

So people here are less pissed off.

[still_one]

30. I agree. Everything will be affected tomorrow, but the UK economy will feel the brunt of this

[swhisper1]

73. other than the EU being a US baby? The US isnt physically effected- we are across the pond

but you can bet your bippy the US corps are highly effected

[geek tragedy]

74. The EU is not a "US baby"

Obviously in the global economy what happens in our trading partners affects us too, but they chose austerity and we didn't.

[swhisper1]

77. yes it is- totally

[geek tragedy]

79. If you say so nt

[840high]

26. I doubt that.

[virgogal]

9. I heard Sweden wants out----where I heard that I don't know.

Hope I'm wrong.

[AntiBank]

14. Hopefully this result pushes us to have our own Swexit referendum

I am vehemently opposed to the neoliberal, corporatist construct that is the EU from a left wing position.

[still_one]

19. What kind of economic policies would you say Venezuela has?

[AntiBank]

29. a disastrous one that was funded off oil money and foreign debt, now called to heel

by the utter collapse of petrol prices and systemic attacks by the very same global neoliberal and US/UK banking forces that so desperately wanted the UK to Remain.

[still_one]

31. it had nothing to do with the policies of Hugo Chavez, which helped push that country into debt, and

shortages

[AntiBank]

34. is that a question? of course Chavez gambled huge with reliance on the petrol economy

and entensive borrowing. Now Maduro is printing money like its confetti, leading to huge inflationary pressures.

[still_one]

35. It was, and you answered it. Thanks

[Scootaloo]

39. You're adorable

[still_one]

40. so are you

[swhisper1]

20. no, there will be a domino effect. US pressure is a real turnoff

[Hydra]

11. It's interesting to see how many people are saying the sky is falling

I guess this puts many other plans in jeopardy for the 1%.

[swhisper1]

21. exactly. I can see corporate CEOs jumping from windows if Sweden declares too

[still_one]

25. The 1% aren't not going to be hurt by this, they never are. We will see what happens to

unemployment in Europe

[Hydra]

32. It's a little hard to hurt people who have so much money they don't know what to do with it

But their plans can occasionally be disrupted...and as for unemployment, that's always the choice of whatever gov't is in charge. There's enough work, food and housing for everyone...at least until climate change takes that away. The fact that people get left out in the cold at the moment is a policy choice.

[Reter]

28. The NWO has had a massive setback

A big win for sovereignty, a big loss for globalization.

[RAFisher]

36. Hopefully Scotland can get off of this sinking ship, become independent and rejoin the EU.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-government-will-seek-scots-eu-deal-1-4162654

[still_one]

37. How reliable is the Scotsman?

[PaulaFarrell]

38. As an American living in the UK, I disagree with your assessment

Mainly because the UK is quite neoliberal itself and coming out of the EU does not mean it is rejecting globalisation. There are many many policies beneficial to the environemnt which are in place solely becuase of EU directives. Think Habitats Directive, Birds Directive, Water Framework Directive, Marine Quality Directive. Britain used to be known as the 'dirty ol man of Europe' and will probably start heading back down that route. It's the whole 'what has the EU ever done for us?' thing....

I don't disagree that the EU is undemocratic and needs change - I just don't think this exit will do a single thing to help the British left and probably much to hurt it. And Europe as a whole is becoming fractured and nationalistic, and this will only encourage that.

[Kablooie]

42. Sound like you agree with John Oliver.

[Kablooie]

41. Did you know the vote has no legal standing?

It's an advisory vote only. The decision to stay or leave remains with the Prime Minister alone.

[AntiBank]

43. not exactly, you are right it is non-binding, but Cameron can only put it to Parliament

and hope the majority voted to remain. That will NEVER happen, you would have country wide riots.

[Kablooie]

44. I think Parliament's vote is non binding too.

I read that it is still is solely the PM's decision.
Of course refusing to do anything would be dangerous and irresponsible but it sounds like he may still have some wiggle room. A little bit perhaps.

[AntiBank]

45. absolutely not the PM's call. I am a part time London resident

for decades. Parliament is sovereign above all else.

[swhisper1]

75. that is why he quit

[Vote2016]

46. This is part of a global shift where fewer people are dividing into left-right camps and are

splitting along populist versus elitist lines instead.

The elite are benefitting so disproportionately from the status quo that many on both the left and the right are wanting to re-shuffle the deck.

The Brexit vote has support on the left and the right and a nonpartisan consensus formed around the idea that chaos was not too high a price for change because the status quo is not acceptable.

This is what is at stake in the Presidential election this cycle. We need to plan for it.

[AntiBank]

47. Agreed and the anxious binary bleating of the "Brexit is Trump" crowd

is quite depressing. I assume all of them are ok with TPP as well, as it's all part of the global neoliberal shackling.

[Vote2016]

49. Brexit isn’t Trump, but Remain is neoliberalism. Brexit is the rejection of neoliberalism and Trump

will adopt anti-neoliberal rhetoric (although I doubt it will be more than rhetorical opposition).

[AntiBank]

52. I was agreeing with you, my foundational resistance to the EU project is that is undemocratic

neoliberal systemic control.

[PaulaFarrell]

59. its a rejection of mmigrants

Nothing more or less

[Vote2016]

64. That's ridiculous. Plenty of Brexit supporters have no strong feeling about immigration. That's like

saying opposition to NAFTA is solely based on opposition to Mexican immigration.

If you hate immigration, you probably oppose NAFTA but that does not mean everyone who opposes NAFTA also opposes immigration.

[PaulaFarrell]

67. its not the same at all

NAFTA does not give Mexicans the unrestricted right to work and live in the us. This vote is not about TTIP. It is about immigration and nationalism for the majority of voters.

[LarryNM]

50. +1,000 n/t

[PaulaFarrell]

58. it had very little support from the left

This reframing of the vote as anything other than against the influx of east Europeans is ridiculous. This is a vote for 'little England'. Anyone t thinking the left is going to benefit doesn't have a clue what they're talking about.

[Vote2016]

65. Nonsense. The conservative party was so strong in its support for remain that its sitting PM

resigned because he invited voters to treat ithe vote as a referendum on his leadership and yet 52% of voters rejected the conservative leader's vision.

That did not happen without liberal support, which explains why Brexit won in areas of England where the Labour Party rules.

[PaulaFarrell]

68. no not true

The areas labour traditionally does well are generally working class and they are generally more anti-immigrant and less educated. Corbyn supported remain and so did Caroline Lucas.

[muriel_volestrangler]

60. The unions wanted to remain in the EU; the main reason for exit was anti-immigration

On Thursday 23 June British voters will decide if Britain should continue its membership of the European Union or leave.
Working people will have a big stake in the referendum because workers’ rights are on the line. The TUC is concerned that leaving the EU puts at risk many vital workplace rights currently underpinned by EU law – paid holidays, extra maternity rights and better conditions for part-time workers, as well as many better jobs in export-reliant industries.
RESOURCES
WORKERS' RIGHTS: Brexit impact
An independent legal opinion from Michael Ford QC identifies the dangers of Britain leaving the EU for working people.
BETTER OFF IN - Working people and the case for remaining in the ​EU
This paper looks at the likely impact of Brexit on the core concern of trade unions: good jobs with decent pay.​
A BIG DECISION FOR WORKERS - Interactive guide
Guide to help you understand the main issues that affect working people.
THE NHS: How Brexit could affect our health service
BRITISH STEEL: Why Brexit won’t save our steel
HEALTH AND SAFETY:
- What Brexit would mean
- The benefits for UK workers
WOMEN’S RIGHTS: The risks of Brexit
Women workers’ rights and the risks of Brexit​
This report outlines 20 ways in which EU law has improved the rights of working women in the UK
WORKING PARENTS & CARERS - Risks of Brexit​
​RACE EQUALITY: The risks of Brexit
FREE MOVEMENT IS A TWO-WAY STREET - Brexit would risk it all
PART-TIME AND TEMPORARY WORKERS - Risks of Brexit​
RIGHTS FOR OUTSOURCED WORKERS​ - Risks of Brexit
VIDEOS
The EU referendum: A big decision. Don't risk it! - Explanatory animation
Stuart's story: Don't risk our car industry by leaving the EU
Tracey's story: Don't risk our flexible working by leaving the EU​
Angie's story: The NHS will be poorer if we leave the EU
Maurice's story: Bad bosses will exploit workers' if we leave the EU​
Kevin's story: EU laws have helped reduce injuries at work and even saves lives
Michelle's story: I don't want to risk losing pregnancy, maternity and family leave rights

https://www.tuc.org.uk/EUref

For immigration, see page 36 of this: https://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Docs/Polls/pm-16-june-2016-tables.pdf

52% of 'leave' say "The number of immigrants coming into Britain" is a very important reason for their vote, compared with just 22% saying "Britain's ability to make its own laws". Another 14% say "Impact on public services/housing", and 10% "The cost of EU immigration on Britain's welfare system".

This vote has been the triumph of Tea Party politics. Trump is, unsurprisingly, strongly supportive of Brexit. So is Marine le Pen of the French far right.

[Vote2016]

66. How can you say it is an anti-immigration movement and link polling that only 52% of Brexit

supperters say immigration was an important motivation for their vote?

[muriel_volestrangler]

69. What, 'only' the majority? 'Only' the reason more than twice as common as any other?

'Only' a reason that had very similar ones about the pressure on services and welfare as other significant reasons?

This must be a use of the word 'only' I was previously unaware of.

52%: The number of immigrants coming into Britain
22%: Britain's ability to make its own laws
18%: The impact on Britain's economy
14%: Impact on public services/housing
10%: The cost of EU immigration on Britain's welfare system
7%: Cost of EU membership fees
5%: The impact on British jobs
Others under 5%.

So, yeah, it's about immigration. The numbers are in front of you.

[swhisper1]

76. conservative crap, Reform EU and all is well

[ellenrr]

51. Thanks for all these links,

as someone who has not been paying much attention, and now trying to educate myself -- very useful!

[PaulaFarrell]

62. Some perpective

This thread is driving me crazy. A bunch of pronouncements from people who know squat about the UK. So here are some real messages on facebook today from people who get out and campaign for the environment,human rights, social justice - lefties all, living their values:

"The UK political system is now even more subservient to US and domestic corporate power. As Rupert Murdoch said "When I go to Downing St they do what I say, when I go to Brussels they take no notice"
At the same time, we've just put wind in the sails of the very people who want to fast-track NHS privatisation. Brexit provides just the kind of chaos and upheaval to push through such an unpopular change plus whatever other regressive measures they've had waiting in the wings."

"Yesterday I voted for peace, solidarity and freedom of movement within Europe; today I feel ashamed to be British. Together, we have built an amazing tunnel to better connect ourselves to the rest of Europe and now we single handedly create a huge divide. It concerns me to see who will be our next Prime Minister, and worries me to think of the changes that lie ahead."

"Such bad news - younger voters up to 75% for remain - will they stay - or emigrate ? will EU workers stay or return ? how many will be left to look after the (self)-deluding / misled older voters? Whittingdale and Murdoch you have so much to answer for."

"Said no one over 60 should hAve had a vote ! Gives me great sorrow to be proved right hope all my other fears don't prove to be right.sad sad day....."

"I agree xxxxxx, I can not believe we did this to ourselves and our children and grandchildren ..."

"Although I am nearly 69, I agree with xxxxx. My generation had all the best years. What the hell have we done now?"

And from Caroline Lucas, the UK's only Green MP :
"It’s difficult to be hopeful this morning. The cloudless blue skies are at odds with the disappointment I’m feeling for our country. Because whilst the people have spoken, and I respect their decision, this referendum has deepened the divisions, borne of years of neglect and alienation, that rend our society. And there’s a cruel irony in the fact that the dispossessed who have been part of this people’s revolt, will likely be the ones who will be disadvantaged yet further as our economy crashes and more empty promises about a better future are broken. Apparently we live in a post-truth world now, and barely are the results in than the lies are already being conceded, the brave new world exposed. Make no mistake, the establishment might look and sound a little different but they are still in control."

[mr blur]

63. Thanks for posting that.

I felt like heading this, "Greetings from Airstrip 1"

A bunch of pronouncements from people who know squat about the UK.

Indeed.

[Odin2005]

70. This is a dark day for the UK.

People on the Left praising this are being needlessly contrarian. UK businesses will no longer be bound by EU rules that protect the rights of workers and unions. No, this is only a plus for the Fascist Right.

[harun]

80. Me-ism Wins. Feel bad for UK Scientists. I don't feel bad for UK Bankers.