Rise in sea level can't be stopped: scientists

[MindMover]

Source: Reuters

Reuters) - Rising sea levels cannot be stopped over the next several hundred years, even if deep emissions cuts lower global average temperatures, but they can be slowed down, climate scientists said in a study on Sunday.

A lot of climate research shows that rising greenhouse gas emissions are responsible for increasing global average surface temperatures by about 0.17 degrees Celsius a decade from 1980-2010 and for a sea level rise of about 2.3mm a year from 2005-2010 as ice caps and glaciers melt.

Rising sea levels threaten about a tenth of the world's population who live in low-lying areas and islands which are at risk of flooding, including the Caribbean, Maldives and Asia-Pacific island groups.

More than 180 countries are negotiating a new global climate pact which will come into force by 2020 and force all nations to cut emissions to limit warming to below 2 degrees Celsius this century - a level scientists say is the minimum required to avert catastrophic effects.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/01/us-climate-sealevel-idUSBRE8600EG20120701

[NRaleighLiberal]

1. Beachfront property here in Raleigh? hmmm

Seriously, this is remarkable...bets on mankind's ability to actually act together in the best interest of the world? Too shortsighted, too selfish, too skeptical of science...and we don't do change well.

[closeupready]

2. Oil interests will see to it that we consume every last drop

of oil, at a premium, for as long as it can be extracted.

So this story is not surprising IMO. K&R

[Lionessa]

3. Seems we are so busy trying to slow it, why are no energy or resources being utilized to

begin re-locating communities to higher ground, even if that means another island or continent?

One would think that as some areas go under, other areas will become more habitable, seems to me anyway. And the jobs that would be created getting whole communities moved, wow, could help the entire world economy.

I know, pipe dream, never mind me.

[Trajan]

6. People will relocate as they already do ...

The rise is so slow that its not a matter of being suddenly caught in a rising tide, but through a course of slow moving events ... Extreme weather events will cause water to reach higher elevations during each episode, but these will be instances where the boundary of the event expands upward ... Such events (hurricane, monsoon, etc) already occur ... High tides will eventually intrude on households and property, and they will ruin structures eventually as the seas rise .... But not all in one fell swoop ....

[RobertEarl]

15. Slow...

....that is our greatest hope. That the sea levels rise slowly as they have been doing for the last 20 years.

Then, of course, is the greatest fear... drum-roll, please,

A subcontinent size chunk of ice on Antarctica slides into the sea causing sea levels to rise 20 feet overnight.

[johnnytoobad]

18. if ice melts in the sea

will it not take up less room? if you fill a glass with ice and water, it will not overflow as the ice melts. If the arctic melts 100% will the ocean levels not recede? after all, water expands when it freezes,contracts when melted. as the ice displaces water,will it not take up less room as it thaws?
just thinking ---------------------------

[PSPS]

19. Not quite

Ice that presently resides on land (Antarctica, Greenland, glaciers, etc.) is all new water and will add to the volume. On the other hand, ice that is "floating" is merely locked in place until it melts.

Then there's the issue of the change in the climate when this happens, but that's a different subject.

[AtheistCrusader]

27. The term you want to google is "Specific gravity of water"

The volume of water can change based on it's mass, which changes based on its temperature and state.

[SoulSearcher]

33. previous ocean cover

I was thinking about the ocean-animal fossils including
sea shells that are found on some of mountains. We may be
able to hold off some part of this, but water previously covered
many parts of the NA continent. So is the scope limited to inches
to a few-feet of sea level rise , or possibly hundreds?

[XemaSab]

45. Good questions

Some of the fossils on mountaintops were uplifted by tectonic activity, so it's not like the ocean was 5,000 feet deeper than it is today.

If Antarctica melted, we would see hundreds of feet (200 feet+) in sea level rise, but that's not on today's menu.

If Greenland melts (which is totally plausible) then we would see about 20 feet in sea level rise, which doesn't sound like a massive amount, but it's enough to put many of the big cities in the world under water.

[snooper2]

67. Oh, those got there from the biblical flood

LOL

[w4rma]

43. Not if the ice was on a mountain, and not already in the sea. (nt)

[ehrnst]

61. Huge amount of ice on land in both poles.

If it melts, yes, the sea level will rise.

[johnnytoobad]

73. Correct me if i'm wrong--The North pole has no land mass

[GliderGuider]

76. No, but Greenland does...

[ehrnst]

77. Correct - it's the south pole. (nt)

[Javaman]

63. Not just ice...

as the oceans heat up, they expand.

[Kennah]

75. That sort of thinking is laced with Koch

It's simplistic, and was a very popular GOP talking point all throughout the 90s. I thought they abandoned it.

[2on2u]

7. People are already at work on that, there is even a floating island made from trash in here.

http://webecoist.momtastic.com/2009/04/27/12-fantastic-floating-cities-and-artificial-islands/

[LongTomH]

12. Note how many of these floating cities and artificial islands are for the mega-rich!

Examples: "The World" floating community, Dubai artificial islands and No Man's Land Fort ("Fit for a James Bond Villain" indeed!).

Maybe this gives us a look into the thought processes of the mega-rich who are spending millions to convince the rubes that global warming is a hoax. They believe that they'll always be able to escape to their floating cities and artificial islands.

The reality is that, when things fall apart on land, the systems needed to support those seagoing palaces will disappear.

[wordpix]

39. the mega rich who bought islands for themselves will soon be under water

Let them find out what it's like to be homeless.

[SoulSearcher]

35. Awesome!

Thanks for the link!

[Chef Eric]

60. These are floating fortresses of evil, and only one man can help us fight them.

He is known only as "The Mariner."

[glinda]

50. What higher ground since they are mountain top mining and removing....

[dipsydoodle]

4. Best settle for slowing down then.

.

[LiberalEsto]

5. OK folks, let's evolve and grow gills

and fins

[DCBob]

8. This will now be the new RW argument.

There is nothing we can do about it so we just have to live with it. I knew this was coming.

This has been the evolution of the anti-GW argument.

1) its all a hoax invented by liberals and scientists looking for funding.
2) its partially true but not a big deal and nothing to worry about.
3) its true and serious but its naturally occuring so man cant do anything about it.
4) its man-made but the effects might be beneficial.. eg citrus in Michigan. (Limbaugh actually said this)
5) its man made and the effects are bad but its too late and too expensive to do anything about it.

[Amonester]

31. 6) it's too late, but don't worry, future generations will adapt.

Yep. The 1% will adapt to eating their gold bars, diamonds, and lotsa paper money when the food chain will be broken forever...

Yeah. They will adapt their own digestive systems to that new reality, because the oil CEO said so.

[wordpix]

40. they can eat the oil and gas, too, as far as I'm concerned

[DCBob]

42. yes indeed.. that will be the final fatal argument...

just prior to the collapse of society.

[Amonester]

56. The collapse is near: the final argument was made Friday by...

(surprise) "sir" Exxon Mobil's CEO.

Exxon Mobil CEO: "Global warming's real but you'll learn to live with it."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002875984

I bet he doesn't care. That pig thinks he'll be dead before the sh*t will meet the fan (broken food chain).

[villager]

9. but but... it can be outlawed in the Carolinas!

n/t

[magical thyme]

10. huh? I thought it was already banned in Virginia?

or somewhere down south?

Puleeze, of course it can be slowed and stopped.



for the challenged.

[kestrel91316]

11. It sure as hell could if people weren't determined to behave like spoiled children

generation after generation. But they are, so it can't.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

13. Say goodby to the everglades

and say hello to a bunch of gators heading north.

[dixiegrrrrl]

14. I'll be sitting on the porch waiting.

Tastes like chicken, you say?

[stubtoe]

20. No, it tastes like reptile. Kinda fishy.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

32. I used to live in a place with a lot of rattlesnakes.

I found seafood recipes were better. It was similar to crab. I've never tried gator but being a white meat it would definitely be best with white wine. Makes you wonder what dinosaur was like considering they were warm blooded and related to birds. The general rule is Herbivores have a low odor while carnivores tend to stink and have tough meat that spoils quickly since they have enzymes that break down meat quickly.

[wordpix]

41. then there are the Burmese Pythons, Nile Monitors & other invasive species

http://conference.ifas.ufl.edu/gardener10/Presentations/Monday/pm/0130%20S%20Johnson.pdf

[On the Road]

16. Sure it Can be Stopped

It just can't be stopped by cutting emissions -- at least not for a very, very long time.

This is why it's so perverse for the very people issuing the most dire warnings about climate change to be so resistant about stopping and reversing global warming. If the implications are as bad as advertised, it's irresponsible to rely solely on the anemic results from a effort like Kyoto.

There are ways to intervene and actually stop the warming, but right now both sides are dead set against any of them. I don't really hold out much hope until more things start actually going under water.

[Javaman]

64. Explain how it can be stopped? nt

[On the Road]

65. There are Different Methods

Since the warming is concentrated in the arctic, the most straightforward way would be to blanket the arctic regions with layers of particles in the upper atmosphere to reflect more sunlight back into space. Another way would be to increase the ability of the oceans to absorb more carbon by seeding them with iron to increase plankton. Even something as simple as impounding corn tailings and other farm waste has the effect of taking carbon out of the atmosphere, which is the underlying issue.

All these methods have certain drawbacks. (Of course, so does Kyoto.) But anything that falls under 'geoengineering' is automatically off the table to most advocates of global warming action.

Which might be fine if it were an even choice. But as articles like the OP point out, the Kyoto solution is not adequate for the magnitude of the problem or the seriousness of the effects.

[slackmaster]

66. What could possibly go wrong?

[On the Road]

68. Well, We Can Continue the Current Course

which is pretty much inexorable with or without Kyoto.

On one hand we have the alarming warnings in the OP about the effect of rising ocean levels. On the other we have statements like "What could possibly go wrong?" Real difficult decision there.

[Trillo]

69. I haven't read of this:

impounding corn tailings and other farm waste

I have read of using such waste for energy, the need to have cellulase to convert to sugar. But to what process does "impounding" refer?

[On the Road]

70. It Refers to Putting Farm Waste on Barges

and sinking it in the ocean. Farm waste is just a cheap way of getting large amounts of carbon in an organic and relatively innocuous form.

There are a number of ways to do this. Some people have proposed capturing CO₂ from the atmosphere and impounding that. The advantage here is large amounts of free material containing carbon.

[ZombieHorde]

17. Time to start looting! nt

[Marrah_G]

21. Personally I think we have passed the tipping point

I think climate change is now snowballing and there isn't anything we can do to stop it. Maybe after the next ice age humans will have learned a lesson about taking care of our enviroment, until then I suppose we will spend alot of time and energy getting through all the changes.

[boppers]

22. Weakest cuts: 139.4cm by 2300. That's 4 and a half feet. In the next 290 years.

I'm pretty sure humanity can move inland by 4 and a half feet in 14 generations or so.

[ret5hd]

24. well, for one thing...

it's not 4.5 feet inland, it's 4.5 feet up, which in some places can be quite a ways inland.

[boppers]

28. I couldn't think of a better way to phrase it, but you are correct that it is altitude.

I still think we can move that much in 290 years.

[yardwork]

29. Well, we're going to have to, but it's going to be extremely painful along the way.

For one thing, I predict a lot of screaming and demands from the super rich that we fund seawalls and other structures to protect their playgrounds from inevitability.

The other question is what is going to happen to huge cities around the world that are on the water. Moving them inland is going to take some work and it's going to be pretty bad in process.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

34. They're more the types to plot the new coastlines and buy up that land for a song.

Then it would jump in value as the new coastal property.

Hell, that would even provide them with incentive to have the flooding occur sooner than later.

I wonder if anyone is tracking that kind of land sales. Imagine if it was revealed that Big Oil was doing that on the side.

[boppers]

47. See: New Orleans.

Same as it ever was.

[caraher]

30. It's still a mass exodus

We already have an entire island nation going underwater, and millions of people live in very low-lying areas. Moreover, seawater encroaching deeper inland will disrupt certain kinds of agriculture.

Individuals can relocate quickly, but it's less clear how well ecosystems can keep up with what is in historical terms exceptionally rapid change.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

36. Forests sure can't keep up.

The Middle East was once a lush area before a change in the wind. There used to be moist air bringing lots of rain into what is now desert.

[boppers]

46. What "entire island nation" was only 4 and a half feet above sea level?

The planet will survive just fine.

Millions of humans may not, but it's not like we're an endangered species.

[caraher]

57. The Maldives

There are a few high spots, but almost all of the Madlives lies 1.5 m or less above sea level.

[LanternWaste]

71. I imagine it's up to us to begin dealing with this in the here and now

I imagine it's up to us to begin dealing with this in the here and now, and in a scientifically and sociologically mature manner; or we could simply and cavalierly announce that things will happen with us or without us-- but as that adds so very little to any reasonable conversation...

[tkmorris]

48. Ya know, you're right

Nothing to worry about folks, everything is gonna be fine!

[Marrah_G]

62. Some island tribes are having to move already

The biggest problem is finding the places to move. It's not like you can sell one piece of land and buy another.

[zonkers]

23. I look forward to our species having gills once again.

[dipsydoodle]

25. Not necessarily

Whales were once land mammals.

[Speck Tater]

26. "Can be slowed". but won't be.

Since when has the human race acted collectively to do the right thing? Does "never" ring a bell.

[icare4u]

37. Doom and Gloom does not move people to act/change

Creativity and inspiration are the only things that have ever produced a meaningful outcome in the end. Mankind is a very wasteful species. We like cheap and wasteful products. I remember the days when we drank Gatorade out of glass bottles and them used them for having cold water in the fridge. If people ever learn not to be so wasteful you might see things slow down but you are talking a major spiritual movement. Not a political movement where people are forcing others to act a certain way.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Push people and they push back.

There are ways to do this but force and doom and gloom will never ever work. Not for normal people and not for cooperations/governments.

[intaglio]

54. Bit of a kneejerk response there

Doom and gloom does work and there are plenty of proofs.

Fears about smoking and cancer were characterised as a a doom and gloom outlook but, guess what, it was the doom and gloomers who got things done. The dreadful smogs of London and other British cities killed tens of thousands but the doom and gloomers who enforced smoke controls stopped the dreadful toll. Lead in gasoline - doom and gloomers win again; but only after millions of people, adults as well as children, suffered sub-lethal lead poisoning.

[sofa king]

38. I can see how this is going to go down.

The first greedy move will be to change property laws so that encroached land can still be owned even if it is underwater most or all of the time. They'll do that so that they can control water access of the new waterfront owners behind them, charge fees, and so on.

The next greedy move will be to absolve themselves from liability for all the shit they refused to clean up as the seas approached. The entire eastern seaboard will be a dead muck of dissolved metals and solvents, and as soon as that happens, they'll start dumping new waste along the coastline, too. Corporations will own the access to the water, but not the poison they put into it, and absolutely everything will be dead within a few years of that.

Then there will be a complete reversal of property values, as dead, poisonous waterfront land is worth nothing and the land more removed from its effects increases in value with distance from the sea.

[FrodosPet]

44. Michigan looks better and better

Yes, many people in America likes to hate and/or fear us. We have brown people (many of whom are from other countries gasp!), and our unemployment rate usually goes up (and down) before everyone else, so that scares the ignorant to the point where they hate us with a blind passion.

But Michigan is several hundred feet in elevation, contains large amounts of farmland, and is surrounded by the world's largest supply of freshwater. Short of an ice age, it's a pretty good place to be.

[glinda]

51. Is that why the Repubs are making people move from there? So they can move in?

[Sirveri]

59. Yeah, but the great lakes are rapidly being tapped out and polluted.

That and sea level rise while annoying isn't the biggest threat to climate change. The real issue is the change in weather patterns, Michigan might have farm land right now, but in the future it could easily see that farm land turn to desert due to changes in the weather patterns and humidity shifts. Also I don't think you could handle such a large influx of refugees and maintain water quantity and your food supply.

If we manage to hit a 3 degree temperature shift (above 1790 averages) there is a probability of kicking off a die off cycle for the Amazon as it desertifies due to changes in rainfall patterns. The resulting plant matter death will spike global carbon emissions accelerating the damage. But before that we'll start to see emissions due to permafrost melting which while not adding directly to Co2 will have a problematic effect on radiative forcing.

[NickB79]

49. Sea level rise is a minor problem with global warming. Crop failures are what will kill billions

Massive droughts cooking crops one year, flooding washing them away the next. Food production is going to become our number one priority in the next few decades if we want to avert a global catastrophe.

[GliderGuider]

55. Yes. And ocean acidification is a much bigger threat than rising water levels.

Ocean acidification is yet another threat to the world's food supply.

Rising seas make good movies, but that's not the thing that gives me night sweats about global warming. Ocean acidification and crop failures are the boojums.

[caraher]

58. Acidification is also yet another reason "geoengineering" is no solution

Even if we could just tweak the temperature of Earth without catastrophic unintended side effects, so long as we pump "fossil" carbon out of the ground we'll continue to drive down the ph of the oceans.

[Uncle Joe]

79. It's literally a perfect storm and sea level rise will greatly damage the economy of most nations if

not threatening the very existence of a few.

The damage to the global economies will add financial burdens, infrastructure challenges and refugee dilemmas to nations struggling with food supply problems, all this will aggravate international tensions and increase the chances of wars and disease breaking out.

Global warming climate change is a multi headed hydra.

[solarman350]

52. Better Learn to Swim...

I'll learn to keep a set of fins, a mask, and snorkel in my car, as I tool around "donating" CO2" to our tortured planet's atmosphere. We don't deserve this planet nor its bounty.
.
.
.

[2on2u]

72. Heh.... you said "tool" and "learn to swim", very coincidental or you are a Tool fan.

Caution, explicit lyrics may not be suited for some.

Aenima lyrics

Some say the end is near.
Some say we'll see Armageddon soon.
I certainly hope we will.
I sure could use a vacation from this

Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of
Freaks

Here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA
The only way to fix it is to flush it all away.
Any fucking time. Any fucking day.
Learn to swim, I'll see you down in Arizona bay.

Fret for your figure and
Fret for your latte and
Fret for your lawsuit and
Fret for your hairpiece and
Fret for your Prozac and
Fret for your pilot and
Fret for your contract and
Fret for your car.

It's a
Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of
Freaks

Here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA
The only way to fix it is to flush it all away.
Any fucking Time. Any fucking day.
Learn to swim, I'll see you down in Arizona bay.

Some say a comet will fall from the sky.
Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves.
Followed by fault lines that cannot sit still.
Followed by millions of dumbfounded dipshits.

Some say the end is near.
Some say we'll see Armageddon soon.
I certainly hope we will 'cause
I sure could use a vacation from this

STUPID shit, silly shit, stupid shit...
[ From: http://www.elyrics.net/read/t/tool-lyrics/aenima-lyrics.html ]

One great big festering neon distraction,
I've a suggestion to keep you all occupied.

Learn to swim.

Mom's gonna fix it all soon.
Mom's comin' round to put it back the way it ought to
be.

Learn to swim.

Fuck L Ron Hubbard and
Fuck all his clones.
Fuck all these gun-toting
Hip gangster wannabes.

Learn to swim.

Fuck retro anything.
Fuck your tattoos.
Fuck all you junkies and
Fuck your short memory.

Learn to swim.

Fuck smiley glad-hands,
With hidden agendas.
Fuck these dysfunctional,
Insecure actresses.

Learn to swim.

'Cause I'm praying for mayhem;
I'm praying for tidal waves
I wanna see the ground give way.
I wanna watch it all go down.
Mom, please, flush it all away.
I wanna see it go right in and down.
I wanna watch it go right in.
Watch you flush it all away.

Time to bring it down again.
Don't just call me pessimist.
Try and read between the lines.

I can't imagine why you wouldn't
Welcome any change, my friend.

I wanna see it come down.
Bring it down.
Suck it down.
Flush it down.

[0rganism]

74. vids

live:

(Tool puts on a fairly amazing live show)

[global1]

53. Al Gore Needs To Do An Update To Inconvenient Truth.....nt

[Evasporque]

78. North Carolina Republicans stopped it.....nt