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Judi Lynn

(160,485 posts)
Sat Dec 10, 2016, 09:26 PM Dec 2016

Ex-senator says New Jersey bear hunt is 'unforgiveable'

Source: Associated Press

Updated 1:31 pm, Saturday, December 10, 2016


FREDON, N.J. (AP) — Former U.S. Sen. Robert Torricelli on Saturday joined opponents of New Jersey's bear hunt who say it is inhumane and blame it for the apparent death of a beloved wild bear that walked upright.

Torricelli said outside a state weigh station that the hunt was immoral.

"They're slaughtering entire families of bears. It's unforgivable," he told NJ.com (http://bit.ly/2hiRF8X ).

His involvement comes after a City College of New York professor was sentenced to 10 days in jail after his seventh arrest in protesting the hunt. Seventy-two-year-old psychology professor Bill Crain, of Dutchess County, New York, was ordered to the Sussex County Jail beginning Jan. 6.

Read more: http://www.chron.com/news/crime/article/Ex-senator-says-New-Jersey-bear-hunt-is-10787942.php

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Ex-senator says New Jersey bear hunt is 'unforgiveable' (Original Post) Judi Lynn Dec 2016 OP
Okay, I'm going to differ from what I imagine is the prevailing opinion here BeardofJGarfield Dec 2016 #1
Yes, people do have more of Doreen Dec 2016 #2
Using dogs for bear hunting is illegal in NJ NickB79 Dec 2016 #6
Thats good. Doreen Dec 2016 #7
Oh, jeez plenty of animals kill gratuitously. AngryAmish Dec 2016 #8
Yes, but it is only a prey drive with them. Doreen Dec 2016 #9
Yep... awoke_in_2003 Dec 2016 #10
What is unique to humans is the enjoyment, the satisfaction and the entertainment LanternWaste Dec 2016 #20
Not true Drahthaardogs Dec 2016 #13
Bear meat is almost inedible. I know. I've hunted brown bear as a teenager Feeling the Bern Dec 2016 #3
All the guys I know who bear hunt love the meat NickB79 Dec 2016 #5
Huge difference between brown bear meat Drahthaardogs Dec 2016 #14
NJ has an overpopulation of bear - what else??? Yo_Mama Dec 2016 #4
More evolved, more intelligent people do NOT enjoy death. They seek life-affirming pursuits. n/t Judi Lynn Dec 2016 #11
All humans are equally evolved. n/t BeardofJGarfield Dec 2016 #15
"Evolved" in character is most clearly a matter of choice, of spirit. Judi Lynn Dec 2016 #17
I'm attempting to say BeardofJGarfield Dec 2016 #18
A most creative way to rationalize the entertainment one receives from killing. LanternWaste Dec 2016 #21
If you want to be healthy in a natural way BeardofJGarfield Dec 2016 #22
It is more a slaughter than a 'hunt'. bears that comb neighborhoods for garbage still remain. Sunlei Dec 2016 #12
In California the same problem is resolved by using bear-safe trash cans LeftyMom Dec 2016 #19
Bear hunting may be fun but I don't really like the meat. ileus Dec 2016 #16
 

BeardofJGarfield

(26 posts)
1. Okay, I'm going to differ from what I imagine is the prevailing opinion here
Sat Dec 10, 2016, 09:59 PM
Dec 2016

And say that, in general, I favor hunting, including of predators. Maybe it's because I'm from Michigan where hunting is seriously a thing, but I digress...

We are highly evolved, true. But we are still animals in the food chain whether we accept it or not. It is far more natural to kill an animal to consume, than it is to raise them in massive numbers in squalid conditions and then buy the meat that has conveniently neatly packaged by someone else. Furthermore, our highly evolved intellect allows and causes us to precisely and quickly kill the animal, which is a far more peaceful end than many animals get at the hands (paws?) of non-human predators.

Polluting the world with massive amounts of toxic runoff, shredding forests, warming the globe, stacking up fucking nuclear waste, killing oceans, are not natural things, unless you consider anything that results from our highly evolved intellects to be natural by default...But when we are participating in the food chain we are in nature, part of it. Yes, using tools such as firearms gives us a serious edge, and you could make the argument that doing so means we've stepped out of the circle of nature. I would say that we are using our intellect in the way nature intended, seeking to mitigate our disadvantages in the face of the advantages other critters have over us. Perhaps I'm not being consistent with the thesis of this paragraph, perhaps I'm drawing an artificial line...These points are, of course, up for debate.

The hunting of bears seems to outrage far more people than the hunting of, say, whitetail deer. There are fewer black bear than whitetail deer, but their numbers are high enough to support controlled hunting. What I think is the real reason that so many more people are outraged about the killing of bears is because something about bears appeals to us. We like the way they look. We admire their strength. They amuse us when the walk on two legs. We place more value on bear than deer, and more value on bears that walk on two legs than on regular old bears. Animals kill to survive. Not wantonly, but they kill nonetheless. We are animals. We're on the food chain.

And of course there are the practical aspects, such as you simply can't have powerful predators running around densely populated areas. This is also natural -- prides of lions, packs of wolves, bears, all do what they can to protect their territory from other predators.

Doreen

(11,686 posts)
2. Yes, people do have more of
Sat Dec 10, 2016, 10:19 PM
Dec 2016

a problem with bear hunting because most of the time the hunters use DOGS. There is no reason to go hunt something unless it is for meat and fur but people do not tend to hunt bear for the meat. they hunt for the thrill. Humans are the ONLY animal that hunts for fun. I have nothing against hunting for food and using the ENTIRE animal but for a trophy NO. I have hunted myself and yes I do understand the thrill of the hunt but I am also smart enough to know I need to only hunt for what I NEED. Hunting with dogs is extremely unfair and should be against the law.

NickB79

(19,225 posts)
6. Using dogs for bear hunting is illegal in NJ
Sat Dec 10, 2016, 11:26 PM
Dec 2016

It says so right in the state regulations posted online.

It is also illegal to hunt solely for trophies; you'll get a wanton waste citation if you leave the carcass in the woods.

 

AngryAmish

(25,704 posts)
8. Oh, jeez plenty of animals kill gratuitously.
Sat Dec 10, 2016, 11:36 PM
Dec 2016

Both raccoon and fox will kill every chicken in a coop just because.

Prey drive is prey drive and not unique to humans.

Doreen

(11,686 posts)
9. Yes, but it is only a prey drive with them.
Sat Dec 10, 2016, 11:47 PM
Dec 2016

With humans it is a trophy attitude and we are supposed to be more advanced than raccoons. No excuse for humans.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
20. What is unique to humans is the enjoyment, the satisfaction and the entertainment
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 03:28 PM
Dec 2016

What is unique to humans is the enjoyment, the satisfaction and the entertainment we receive from killing. "Plenty of animals" defecate wherever and whenever the urge strikes... so, let's be lie animals?

We become less than who we are when we attempt to rationalize the irrational.

 

Feeling the Bern

(3,839 posts)
3. Bear meat is almost inedible. I know. I've hunted brown bear as a teenager
Sat Dec 10, 2016, 10:46 PM
Dec 2016

Greasy, fatty. . .disgusting. IMHO

People do it because they want the pelt, nothing more

NickB79

(19,225 posts)
5. All the guys I know who bear hunt love the meat
Sat Dec 10, 2016, 11:22 PM
Dec 2016

The bear meat sticks they've brought to work tasted delicious to me.

Maybe you prepared it badly?

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
14. Huge difference between brown bear meat
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 09:06 AM
Dec 2016

And black bear meat. Brownies are much more carnivorous and eat a lot of fish

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
4. NJ has an overpopulation of bear - what else???
Sat Dec 10, 2016, 10:48 PM
Dec 2016

I hunted up the 2015 management plan adoption doc in NJ:
http://www.nj.gov/dep/rules/adoptions/adopt_20151116a.pdf

NJ has too many bears roaming too close to urban/suburban areas. There isn't any other way to cut the population down.

Judi Lynn

(160,485 posts)
17. "Evolved" in character is most clearly a matter of choice, of spirit.
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 03:05 AM
Dec 2016

You can choose to be a monster throughout your life, bring hardship, suffering to those around you, develop a truculent attitude, show incredible contempt and disrespect for life, or you can be someone who is looking for the greater truth, the larger picture, something beyond his infantile self.

Not too sure what you are attempting to say.

 

BeardofJGarfield

(26 posts)
18. I'm attempting to say
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 01:13 AM
Dec 2016

That species evolve, not individuals. Ergo, all members of the human species are equally evolved.

And some of us prefer to eat meat that we harvested humanely, that we know hasn't been pumped full of chemicals and didn't come from an animal that was squashed into a tiny stall and tortured to death.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
21. A most creative way to rationalize the entertainment one receives from killing.
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 03:30 PM
Dec 2016

"And some of us prefer to eat meat that we harvested humanely..."

A most creative way to rationalize the entertainment one receives from killing. As though there are only two possibilities available. Short-sighted at best, I would hazard.

 

BeardofJGarfield

(26 posts)
22. If you want to be healthy in a natural way
Tue Dec 20, 2016, 07:32 AM
Dec 2016

Yes, there are only two options. No omnivorous species eschews meat. There's a reason for that.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
12. It is more a slaughter than a 'hunt'. bears that comb neighborhoods for garbage still remain.
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 04:06 AM
Dec 2016

They're used to humans and very dangerous when they have cubs in spring.

ileus

(15,396 posts)
16. Bear hunting may be fun but I don't really like the meat.
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 06:50 PM
Dec 2016

Wonder if you can make bear jerky?

My 12yo son killed one deer this year so far and we've almost run through all of that deer as jerky. I'm gonna have to get him back out in the field to put another couple in the freezer before season ends.

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