Tennessee yarn shop asks 'women's movement' supporters to shop elsewhere

[pstokely]

Source: USA TODAY NETWORK

A Franklin knitting shop is asking those who want yarn for any project relating to the "women's movement" to buy yarn elsewhere.

In the post, uploaded to The Joy of Knitting's Facebook page Tuesday afternoon, it asks "if you want yarn for any project for the women's movement that you please shop for yarn elsewhere," and said the "vulgarity, vile and evilness of this movement is absolutely despicable."

Many marchers from Saturday's gatherings across the country and world wore pink knitted hats as part of the movement.

The post was signed by the shop's owner, Elizabeth Poe, and had more than 3,300 shares and nearly 4,000 comments by Wednesday afternoon.

Read more: http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/williamson/2017/01/25/franklin-yarn-shop-asks-womens-movement-supporters-shop-elsewhere/97032576/

[BeyondGeography]

1. So grabbing pussy is ok, but knitting a pussy cap is vile

Yeah. I get it.

[Leith]

10. I Know, Right?

She seems to think that orange boy can be vile, but "nasty women" shouldn't behave badly.

So grabbing pussy is okay, banding together to say it is NOT okay is bad.

huh

[brush]

30. Won't stay in business long with dumb pronouncements like that.

[machoneman]

46. Huh?

She is a total idiot! Gee, yah think about 99% of her shoppers are women, right? Then if even only say 33% of her clientele strongly support the movement and go elsewhere, guess what? She'll be out of business faster than Trump can grab a pussy!

[brush]

47. Exactly!

[MyOwnPeace]

56. "She'll be out of business......"

Come on, you KNOW better than to give Drumpf a challenge like that!

[yeoman6987]

55. There are places that refuse to have customers who voted for trump

I don't know if this will hurt them but many stores and businesses only want to have customers who agree with them politically. I'm not sure we ever saw anything like this before.

[brush]

57. If I was running a business I wouldn't want to have to make a decision like that.

Good business people keep politics out of it unless some issue is just intolerable.

I'd have to draw the line at KKKers in their pointy hats or Nazis in their uniforms — stuff like that.

But women who marched, ridiculous.

[yeoman6987]

60. I think this and the cake refusal are the dumbest

I do put cake first because it's sugar and icing. I don't get the problem with making a cake and throwing congratulations Adam and bill and throwing a two male plastic mold on top of the cake can possibly be a problem but they made it one weirdly.

[Kingofalldems]

64. Name them please or you made it up,yeoman6987.

[Crash2Parties]

29. Good Conservative Christian women would never do anything so...independent.

They know their place, and that ain't it.

[dionysus]

2. Maybe the klanswomen will knit some nooses or MAGA kkk hoods!

[bekkilyn]

3. I don't have a problem with it

She's not refusing to sell yarn to a protected class, so I think it's otherwise fine for her to choose her customers just like I thought it was fine for that business to not want to serve Trump voters and thus choose its customers.

Not that I don't think she's completely deluded, but that's another issue.

[tavalon]

15. I think making sure no one buys any yarn or for that matter, anything from her store

is also perfectly acceptable.

[bekkilyn]

16. I agree with that too

Though I feel she has the right to choose her customers (outside of protected classes), she's also not immune to negative consequences from that choice.

[tavalon]

17. Yes, exactly

[logosoco]

65. This

I was thinking of that with the whole bakery thing. I would almost prefer they be allowed to say they don't want to make cakes for gay weddings so that I will know not to ever do business with them. I would rather do business with people with kind hearts, not those that need the government to tell them they have to be nice no matter what they think.

[adigal]

24. Absolutely!! And since she made it a public statement

others are free to go after her for it. I have a business, and when I went after Ivanka Trump on IG, I had lots of crazy ass Trump cult members going after me. I didn't care. I didn't want their dirty money anyway.

[AJT]

32. You can't refuse to serve anyone

Unless they cause an issue, like yelling or fighting or some other non personal rule violation. If someone decides to have a business open to the general public they must serve the general public.
If the only pharmacy in 20 miles decides they don't want to serve liberals or some neighbor they don't like that is wrong. If you want to choose your customers then you can't have a business open to the public, ie a door with an OPEN sign on it, it's the price you pay for being in business.

[djg21]

51. What are you basing this on.

Unless you give me a legal citation, I'll have to conclude that you are incorrect.

In Tennessee, like many other States, it is illegal for a place of public accommodations to refuse or deny the full and equal enjoyment of goods, facilities and accommodations based on Age (40+), Color, Creed, National Origin, Race, Religion and Sex. The law applies to any business, accommodation, refreshment, entertainment, recreation or transportation facility, licensed or not, whose goods, services, facilities and privileges are extended, offered, sold or otherwise made available to the public. - See more at: https://www.tn.gov/humanrights/article/public-accommodations#sthash.AnxY1vhy.dpu

Please explain how the owner of the business is discriminating on the basis of Age, Color, Creed, National Origin, Race, Religion or Sex.

There is nothing on the federal law that precludes a business from electing not to do business with someone because of political viewpoint.

[AJT]

58. I was thinking that it would be considered

Arbitrary.

Do Restaurants Have the Unrestricted Right to Refuse Service?
No. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 explicitly prohibits restaurants from refusing service to patrons on the basis of race, color, religion, or national origin. In addition, most courts don’t allow restaurants to refuse service to patrons based on extremely arbitrary conditions. For example, a person likely can’t be refused service due to having a lazy eye.

- See more at: http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/restaurants-right-to-refuse-service.html#sthash.47X4jHv7.dpuf

[djg21]

61. A restaurant is a place of public accommodation.

A yarn store is not. Even if it were, at least in Tennessee, and under the Civil Rights Act of 1964, discrimination based on political view isn't proscribed. Some States do have such a prohibition, but not Tennessee apparently.

[politicat]

79. Actually, per EEOC, retail is also a public accomodation. And the KY Civil Rights Act.

https://www.eeoc.gov/facts/adaqa2.html

Q. What are public accommodations?
A. A public accommodation is a private entity that owns, operates, leases, or leases to, a place of public accommodation. Places of public accommodation include a wide range of entities, such as restaurants, hotels, theaters, doctors' offices, pharmacies, retail stores, museums, libraries, parks, private schools, and day care centers. Private clubs and religious organizations are exempt from the ADA's title III requirements for public accommodations.

This is specifically ADA related, but retail has generally been ruled a public accomodation in the case law for both civil rights and ADA.

Then there's the Kentucky Civil Rights Act, which defines store as a public accomodation, too.
http://kchr.ky.gov/reports/Documents/Brochure/Public%20Accommodations%20Brochure.pdf

The Kentucky Civil Rights Act states that a public accomodation, resort or amusement includes any place such as a store, restaurant, hotel, motel, professional or other office, or other establishment, either licensed or unlicensed, which supplies goods or services to the general public.

This is specific to civil rights.

There are four states whose public accomodation statute is vague enough that retail may not be included; Kentucky is not one of those four. (Nebraska, Wyoming, Missouri and Virginia.) Everywhere else includes retail.

She's not a wholesaler; she's retail. She's not a private knitting club that supports itself on yarn sales; she's open to the public. She's not a religious institution. Yarns, hooks and needles are not controlled substances.

So the question becomes -- is she discriminating against a protected class? Maybe. She's not refusing all women, just a substantial portion. (How would she handle men who knit/crochet coming into her store for pink yarn? That would be the defining factor.) From her perspective, she may be discriminating on the basis of religion, in that she's attempting to exclude those who do not conform to her social-cultural-religious behaviors and trying to create an environment that privileges one group over another. And she definitely falls under the arbitrary language, which was inserted specifically so that undefined characteristics could not be applied as a means of discriminating while asserting plausible deniability. There were incidents in the 70s of women being refused service for wearing pants; those were considered violations of the gender clause. (Sorry, I don't have a citation; I do know my grandmother was one of the complainants, and it was state level, though not Kentucky.)

She actually has a remedy that doesn't involve forbidding anyone from her premises -- stop carrying pink yarn or remove it from the shelves. Don't take special orders. If she sponsors open knitting or stitch and bitch, discontinue them. (Which are equally as likely to hurt her business, but those are the legal remedies that don't rise to the level of flashing her ass.) Instead, she took the passive-aggressive route, and is Streisand Effecting herself. Can't say I have much sympathy. At least she made it easy to identify a bigot.

[davsand]

75. Pretty sure I'd be OK spending my money anyplace OTHER than there.

Kinda like I refuse to go to Chickfila, Hobby Lobby, Jimmy Johns, Dominoes... They own their fuckery, and I have other choices available. I exercise that choice and figure they can live or die for all I care.


Laura

[elmac]

4. Boy, shes really showing them

that is really going to hurt their feelings.

[RobinA]

20. And If This Doesn't Work

she can cut off her hand. Surely THAT will teach them.

[Sanity Claws]

5. Boycott them

Let other businesses join a list of those who don't want our business. It will make it easy to target our boycott.

[benfranklin1776]

44. Amen why financially support those who hate us

Although she like so many deluded right wing pod people is a living embodiment of Freudian projection: the protests were peaceful and classy; the terms vulgar, vile and evil she is using describe her would be Fuhrer's behavior to a tee but because she jettisoned her soul to indulge her slavish devotion to him she must project what the remaining rational portion of her brain recognizes about him, which is as obvious as an orange supernova, on to his opponents to justify her fealty.

[7962]

6. Another publicity hound. Just like the others. Stupid.

[Ellen Forradalom]

7. Women often lash out at other women for stepping out of line

but not at the Big Man in Charge. That's a whole 'nother story

[KittyWampus]

8. She must own the building her shop is in. How can a yarn shop afford to lose customers?

Usually they're lucky to make rent.

[marybourg]

13. Yes. Wondering the same thing. nt

[pstokely]

35. perhaps she thinks she'll get a whole bunch of deplorables of new customers

Last edited Thu Jan 26, 2017, 02:04 AM - Edit history (1)

but do they even knit?

[SticksnStones]

39. Oh, the right-eous will launch a goFundMe for her...

We've all seen that game plan play out

[riderinthestorm]

40. Yup, I'm sure that's next nt

[Lars39]

41. Shop is in a strip mall iirc.

She could own it but I doubt it. She just feels emboldened to speak out, given Williamson County and Franklin are very red and very mega-churched.
What's heartening is that there were actually women in Franklin at all buying pink yarn.

[TexasTowelie]

9. They will need to change the instructions

so that they crochet "this yarn supplied by The Joy of Knitting into the hats."

[Thekaspervote]

11. Not in TN, but if I was I'd be letting her know I'm happy to take my business elsewhere

[milestogo]

12. Nice way to destroy your own business.

[kimbutgar]

22. Some people need to learn to STFU

Obviously she has no clue what she is going to wrought by her statement.

[mwooldri]

14. If this shop wasn't in deeply Red territory...

... I'd fear for their livelihood. Somehow I don't think this is going to affect their business.

[politicat]

18. And another one falls for the Streisand Effect.

Her online review are now in the 1 star category. She's gone viral. No web presence, but there's a good chance she'll lose at least a couple of suppliers -- several of the gourmet yarn companies are feminist/LGBTQ owned and operated. Even in Kentucky, she's going to lose business. Not in a big, showy way, but she'll lose.

All I can say is thanks for making it easy for others to avoid you.

[YOHABLO]

19. Oh I do declare those Yankee women are "despicable''.

[Demit]

21. She says she's "pro-rights, but..."

I love that "but."

[adigal]

23. Oh, man, she certainly poked a hornet's nest

And she is Christian?? Women like this are the ones who give Christianity a bad name.
And really - how can anyone read the Bible and not get that Jesus was a rebel original hippie?? He was absolutely a LIBERAL!!!
Jesus weeps.

[adigal]

25. Can anyone creative photoshoppers come up with a knit white hood for Trump's head??

It would be lovely.

[videohead5]

26. Franklin,TN

Just south of Nashville has been a very Republican town for years.Nashville and Memphis voted for Hillary by a big margin.

[hells]

27. A knitting shop refuses customers ?

Do they make billions of dollars or something. Maybe the owner thinks that if she is as delusional as tRump is. Anyways, she just shot herself in the foot.

[Girard442]

31. "We've lost our sense of social decency."

No kidding.

[democratisphere]

33. Another dumb idiot for dumbf.

If you shoot yourself in both feet, you don't deserve to be in business. Long live pussy hats.

[Skittles]

34. LOLOL

a Trump supporter calling someone else "vulgar, vile and evil"

[UpInArms]

36. hang your trumplethinskin sign very high, Joy of Knitting

I will happily shop elsewhere and never give you a penny of mine

[Warpy]

37. She's getting savaged over at Ravelry

One thing I wasn't too polite to point out is that her Christian sensibilities weren't offended until after she'd added up all the sales of pink yarn over the last month. Her morbid religious baggage didn't affect her bottom line...until now.

Bless her heart.

[ivysphotomom]

66. Really..where??

I'm a Ravelry knitter...where, on the forums?? I'll have to see if her shop has a FB page as well, and be sure to comment...

I knit several of these hats for friends! And have orders for several more! I bought the last 14 skeins of pink Mecha from Eat Sleep Knit over the weekend...!!

I'm new here, and also trying to figure out how to post photos with a comment...is that possible?

TIA!!

[bettyellen]

67. I believe you have to open an Imagur or Photobucket account - upload there, then you can post

The link they give you.

[uppityperson]

70. Hi, you need to have the photos on another site, like Photobucket or something

Then put the link from there here. You can't post directly from your device.

[Warpy]

74. Posting photos has to be done through a hosting service

The one I use is Photobucket. You upload the photo and they give you an URL to use to post here.

Quite a few of the Rav groups, especially the ones where we can swear (disproportionate number of lace knitters), have addressed what a boneheaded move this was on her part.

[madaboutharry]

38. It seems to me like someone

needs to give her a copy of "The Joy of Sex."

Ok, that was mean. I swear that was totally out of character.

[jmowreader]

59. Come on. Be real.

Do you really think she has any joy at all in her life? People like her see sex as a slightly odious thing that must be done to keep their husbands from walking away.

[Vinca]

42. This is amusing. If Trump owned the shop he'd double the stock, double the price and cash in.

[Jokerman]

43. Some group should offer to buy her entire stock at a ridiculous markup...

and see how deep her "conservative values" go.

[sinkingfeeling]

45. Be glad to.

[IronLionZion]

48. Do they sell white yarn to knit sheets and hoods?

"vulgarity, vile and evilness of this movement is absolutely despicable."

The saddest thing I saw on the rally was a classmate who is a Muslim immigrant complain that his kids are asking what "pussy" means. I told him it means good American women are trying to stop his family from being sent to the camps.

There's nothing vulgar about human anatomy or pink hats. There was a liberal female state legislator in the Midwest who was censured for saying the word "vagina" in a speech.

[llmart]

49. That was Gretchen Whitmer in Michigan.....

and I believe she's going to run for Governor of Michigan.

Obviously, she's already got my vote!

[annarbor]

78. Gretchen Whitmer is A True Gem!

She has my vote and that of many of my friends!

[dreamland]

50. Another one for the alt reality.

How misaligned can one be? Maybe her love of Precedent Pisser has blind her to her own gender.

[cyclonefence]

52. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face

Knitters (and I am one), in my experience tend to be lefties more than RW. I wonder how long it's going to take for this woman's shop to go out of business. And I hope some of these despicable protesters get together and start a rival business right across the street.

ETA I suspect the term "pussyhat" is offensive to Ms. Poe, while pussy grabbing is not.

[jmowreader]

53. Her Facebook page is a thing of beauty and a joy forever

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1346201692067197&id=126383230715722

Her (hopefully former) customers are letting her have it with both barrels.

[liberaltrucker]

71. I'm the person who told her to enjoy bankruptcy

[chelsea0011]

54. Her business has links to outside USA sites for the world knitting community. I hope she enjoys

the high tariff her boss will impose for foreign yarn imports.

[Retrograde]

62. But half the women marching voted for Trump!

Pence said so, so it must be true, at least in Trumpworld.

Two local yarn shops in the heavily populated Bay Area closed last year: I'm glad she has enough business that she can afford to drive away segments of her customer base.

[Justice]

63. What is this getting so much attention? Why even in breaking News?

Horrible, Wrong but world is blowing up.

[rzemanfl]

76. Right there with you, this is like talking about the ants who were killed at Hiroshima. n/t

[Skittles]

68. I guess pussy-grabbing and defrauding people are values more to her liking

yes indeed

[TexasBushwhacker]

69. Shrewd marketing move n/t

[In_The_Wind]

72. Why is Elizabeth Poe running a business instead of cooking and cleaning at home ?

[bdamomma]

73. boy

these people are really being gas lighted and being lied too.
going for it hook, line and sinker.

This is only a man, why do they worship him so much.

[ailsagirl]

77. Huh??