'Calexit' supporters can start work to make ballot

[LovingA2andMI]

Source: The Hill

Californians who want their state to secede from the United States can now start collecting signatures to put the initiative on the 2018 ballot.

The Yes California Independence Campaign has been around for at least two years, but saw the election of President Trump only increase momentum for the so-called “Calexit” cause. Trump lost California by more than 4 million votes, fueling interest in a Calexit—a play on the British Brexit campaign that saw that country's voters decide to leave the European Union.

The California Secretary of State’s office announced that the group could begin collecting signatures on Thursday.

The group needs 585,407 signatures from registered voters over the next 180 days to qualify for the ballot.

If the 2018 ballot initiative passes, it would force a 2019 statewide special election asking voters if they want California to become an independent country.

Read more: http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/316461-supporters-of-calexit-movement-can-begin-collecting-signatures-to

---

#MicDrop All That Can Be Said Is Go California, Go! If Californians refuse to allow their Beautiful State to be destroyed by Cheeto Trumpskin who can blame them. And maybe, just maybe, this #Calexit Move will make some of those folks in the Middle wake up and realize Cheeto is destroying American Democracy and Unity as we knew it.

[meadowlark5]

1. If it happens, I hope they have enough space, water and jobs for the mass immigration

[LovingA2andMI]

5. Maybe it could become a movement....

Just maybe...

[AllTooEasy]

63. I prefer Texexit, Utexit, or Alabamexit

Last edited Fri Jan 27, 2017, 05:43 PM - Edit history (1)

Peeling off parts of America that are liberal will play right into Right-wing hands. They are already peeling off parts with Gerrymandering and voter suppression. Why help them more with the ultimate right-wing victory?

Recall the "Back to Africa" movement. Blacks didn't take it seriously, but Southern White bigots supported the idea with big donations. I believe that a present-day, homeless Black man would be a millionaire within a year if he took a tin can labelled "Back to Africa" around Mississippi's all-White neighborhoods.

Recall when George Clooney and other liberals said that they would move to Canada if Bush won. After Bush won, Conservatives lined up to buy them tickets.

I prefer a strategy that peels off the conservative parts of America. I've never opposed the succession of Texas or another succession of Confederate States. Let them go! If Hillary had won, such talk would have magnified. I would have contributed financially and logistically to those campaigns.

[pangaia]

105. Exactly. And the Russians want it also...

In fact they are backing and encouraging the whole idea..

[sweetloukillbot]

82. They don't have water now.

And if they secede they're sure as hell not going to get access to the Colorado...

[Bernardo de La Paz]

2. United States of Canada

[Javaman]

38. weird isn't it. I remember once upon a time...

when Quebec was trying to opt out of Canada and the Easter Provence's were wondering what to do being so far and separated from their national capital by a 'foreign nation". Many of them were seriously considering motions to become part of the U.S.

Oh have times have changed.

[pangaia]

109. Alberta, humm..

I don't know much about the differences btw Alberta and Saskaatcheewan,, except that Calgary is in Alberta and I can't spell the other one.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

121. Alberta has a New Democratic Party NDP government now after 40 years of Conservatives

Same year as Trudeau won a Liberal majority nationwide turning out the Conservatives who had national power for 10 years.

The NDP are more liberal than the Liberals, and, no surprise, more liberal than the US Democratic Party.

So the map is fluid, possibly not accurate, and of course only meant to be provocative to get people thinking

[pangaia]

122. Thanks...

Most of my time in the past decade or so in Canada has been in Toronto and Montreal..

[LovingA2andMI]

3. Wonder Will #NYExit Be Next?

Maybe just maybe this needs to become a movement in the Progressive States (the ones leaning Democrat in State House/Senate/Governorship or at least one of those) EVERYWHERE.

If Cheeto Trumpskin and the Reichtag crew of blind followers want to Destroy American Democracy, Unity and Freedom -- this can be one of the ways to #StandUp and #FightBack.

#TheResistance in Action!

[Javaman]

40. If NY and Cali left, it would become the United States of Texas.

Frankly, I think Illinois would be close behind to leave as well.

[christx30]

128. Yeah, we need California if we're ever to have any hope

of defeating the GOP in 2018 and 2020. You take away California, and Trump wins the election by nearly 10 million votes. And if he won all of the other states he won on Black Tuesday, he'd have the electoral and popular votes.
I'm in Texas, so my vote for Hillary did absolutely jack to help her. We need Cali as a bulwark against GOP insanity.

[Galileo126]

4. What a waste of time. money and effort

Speaking as a Californian, it would be better to use our economic muscle as Americans (not a rogue state) to fight this douche bag.

We will be the thorn in Cheeto's side! We are a sanctuary state, and given the fact we give more than we take (taxes, Fed dollars, etc) - we have that "muscle".

I don't want to secede. I want to use our power to make the Cheeto bend down and kiss our asses!

[LovingA2andMI]

6. Some Things....

Can be symbolic or real. And either way, California is showing in live and living color its Economic Power and Muscle. IOHO...that is a Really Good Thing -- regardless of whatever happens with #Calexit.

[Iggo]

11. Yeah, remember when half the people who voted for Brexit thought it was a symbolic vote?

Good times.

[LovingA2andMI]

22. And It Would Be Up To The People of California....

To DECIDE IF #Calexit is placed upon a ballot. And equally, if to vote #Calexit in if it does.

The People of California are not misinformed in the least as displayed by the 4 million vote lead and win for Hillary Clinton in the November 2016, General Election.

They will make the right choice for them.

Meanwhile, those interested in what they ultimately will decide to do, can watch.

[Iggo]

41. I'm a proud and informed California voter, but please don't forget Proposition 8.

Don't underestimate the stupidity of the mob.

[LovingA2andMI]

45. Fair Point...

[SoCalNative]

66. Technically, it was

as it was a referendum and therefore not legally binding.

[onenote]

18. And what symbolic message will be sent when the calexit vote loses by millions

as is all but certain to happen.

[The_Voice_of_Reason]

7. I would hope...

that both Oregon and Washington on the west coast follow suit...I'd also love to see New York and a few other east coast states join this movement to withdraw.

[meadowlark5]

9. It's too bad so many conservative states kind of break up a good section of the country

If California, Oregon and Washington became it's own nation, I sure wish it could scoop over and take Nevada and Colorado with it, but you have that pesky Chaffetz state of Utah boogering the whole thing up.

[brush]

16. Oregon and Washington too? Now that's an idea, the 3 contiguous most western states...

Last edited Fri Jan 27, 2017, 09:49 PM - Edit history (2)

as one country.

Huh?

No, that probably won't work as it would deprive the rest of the country from a western coast and all its ports, and Cali's fertile lands.

Might start a war.

[yodermon]

118. "Pacifica"

and of course it would never work. Makes for great speculative fiction though.

[meadowlander]

130. Paxit or bust.

[LeftInTX]

35. Losing all the ports will devastate the US

Bye-bye "Manifest Destiny"

[The_Voice_of_Reason]

42. I am fine

with the USA losing their ports. This election has made it clear that our votes do not count, that our destiny is being manipulated and controlled by the Red(neck) states.

[brush]

131. Agreed. Using Calexit as a bargaining chip may help to fix or ditch the Electoral College

[Tikki]

112. I would like to see Nevada and Hawaii, along with California, Oregon and Washington State.

You all know that Colorado and New Mexico also voted BLUE. Hope we could help them, also.

Tikki

[AllaN01Bear]

8. viva reformed california

[geek tragedy]

10. Better to have the West Coast and New England down through the NYC Metro area join Canada. nt

[Polly Hennessey]

12. Calexit

It's not "trumpie" so much as it is a deep desire to leave the jerks who make up the "Jesusland confederacy". I am a native Californian and am so grateful for that. You do realize that we will still have to contend with the State of Jefferson crowd. I just happen to live right in the middle of them. Will say this for them, they never give up.

[Ligyron]

13. The US would go broke if Cali left.

Throw NY in and it would be permanent poverty in Jesus Land.

The hellhole Trump claims it is now would finally be a reality.

[onenote]

21. California is projecting a budget deficit for 2017-18

And where would California get the money to continue to make social security payments to millions of its citizens?

And if the federal government slaps financial sanctions or tariffs on California products, there is going to be a lot of rotting lettuce and out of work folks in California.

[kimbutgar]

49. If tax money went to California rather than the federal government the deficit could be

Managed and cut. Give us our part of the social security money.

[AllTooEasy]

124. It's not that simple

I often hear this argument from the Texas Succession crowd. Here's the problem: California (like Texas) pays part of the Federal gov't expenses. For Cali, that part is over 1/50, but not nearly 1/10th. If Cali succeeded, they would have to pay %100 of their Federal expenses. Specifically, Cali would have to pay %100 of it's own Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines. Considering Cali's resources and coastal location, Cali has a LOT to lose from a potentially invading military...like from a right-wing, Cali-less US military. The US wouldn't give The California Republic any military equipment and the US would abandon it's Cali bases. Russia, China, and even Mexico would lick their chops. Heck, the United States of Trump could quickly turn around and conquer the Cal. Republic, make it a colony, deny it's citizens statehood rights and representation, and then exploit it's resources.

The Cal. Republic would also have to finance it's own embassies, diplomatic operations, intelligence forces, and other federal agencies. Free Trade agreements across Cali's present land boarders with the rest of the continental US would stop. All those things have a hidden cost.

Autonomy is great, but it's also a major logistical and financial responsibility. Cali(like Tx) sends a lot of money to Washington, but not hardly enough to replace the US military and the US's other federal resources. Cali would definitely need a US type military to protect it's valuable resources from the rest of the world. Or, make some diplomatic deals...which have their own hidden cost.

Something to think about and plan carefully.

[displacedtexan]

73. CA currently gets back 78 cents for every fed tax dollar.

Plus, the US of Trumpistan would have to pay rent on the military bases and... Hahahahaha...border patrol.

I'm signing the petition. I live in SF, and the Trumpian ICE fascists raided The Good Samaritan Center here yesterday, allegedly looking for one man, and they weren't even sure they had the right address.

All they ended up doing was terrorizing kindergartners, their teachers, and 20 new immigrant families who were attending ESL classes. GRRRRR!

[onenote]

76. Try making the Federal Government pay rent.

They aren't going to do so voluntarily and it will take a long time before that matter could be litigated out.

Out of 100,200,000 acres in California; 45,860,000 are currently OWNED by the federal government. If anything, California would find itself being sued by the Federal Government for expropriating that property.

[displacedtexan]

86. The House has voted to ease the rule on returning fed lands to states and tribes.

Even if Trump doesn't trust the states, the Repukes in congress really want to control the land in their states.

[onenote]

89. Link? Returning land to states was part of repub platform

but I don't think any such legislation has been passed by either house. And even if repubs support returning land to states, they're not going to support returning it to a non-state.

[displacedtexan]

129. Here's one. There are several sources via Google.

From one of the articles about Trump not wanting states to be able to sell fed lands, but he wants them available for drilling.

The House of Representatives, although GOP-dominated, could still throw a wrench into Trump’s plans for federal lands. Last week, the House voted in favor of a new bill aimed at facilitating the transfer of federal lands to states, communities, and Native American tribes. The bill stipulates no transfer costs for the federal budget and was initiated by the Republicans last year.

http://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/US-Energy-Industry-Eager-To-Start-Drilling-On-Federal-Land.html

Plus, CA is the fifth largest economy in the world. Finding allies and trade partners wouldn't be a problem.

I'm just curious to see who does and doesn't support this here in CA. I guess we'll see pretty soon.

[onenote]

134. Finding allies and trade partners will be impossible if the US imposes travel and trade

sanctions.

[TranssexualKaren]

14. Even if for no other reason than to preserve a future for us.

Even if Donald Trump had not become president and no one need vilify republicans or conservatives, if for no other reason than the fact that the political discourse in the United States has become hopelessly dysfunctional. We have become a marriage that, sad as it may be to say so, has reached the point of having genuinely irreconcilable differences.
I suggest California-Oregon-Washington-Hawaii, we can call our new country Pacifica.

What do you think?

[brush]

23. See post #16. You added Hawaii to the mix. I don't know...

I'm not against it but taking away all the west coast and it's ports and fertile lands may start a war.

[Blue_Tires]

15. Not only is it dumb, but the fact that the whole campaign is being

spearheaded by Russian or Russian-connected activists/operatives is so blatantly obvious that even the most willfully blind useful idiots on the left should pause and take notice...

But hey... The dudebro left went 0-4 in trusting Moscow in 2016, why should 2017 be any different?

[TranssexualKaren]

20. Have you been paying any attention at all!!!

We can't even build high speed rail in this country because it's childishly simple for a small group billionaires to sabotage all progress at the top. We need to simplify Things.

[LovingA2andMI]

25. And your proof of this is....

[Blue_Tires]

36. Are you really that bad at Google?

Maybe you should sit this one out and let the adults discuss it while you educate yourself on the issue:

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/From-his-home-in-Russia-Calexit-leader-plots-10796796.php

http://www.salon.com/2016/12/29/russia-calexit-texit-dissent/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2016-12-07/how-to-make-california-great-secede-with-a-little-help-from-putin

http://ktla.com/2016/12/20/calexit-movement-organizer-says-group-has-opened-a-california-embassy-in-russia/

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/the-conversation/sd-calexit-leaders-lives-in-russia-20161216-htmlstory.html

http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essential-politics-updates-calexit-organizers-say-they-ve-opened-1482187671-htmlstory.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/yes-california-moscow-embassy-russia-2016-12

http://euromaidanpress.com/2016/11/23/russians-back-secession-of-california-from-us-russian-linked-leader-of-calexit-says/#arvlbdata

Yeah, you just keep on rollin' your eyes at me

[LovingA2andMI]

43. Yes, actually...

We will keep ROLLING OUR EYES at you online as much as we feel like....


Also, for your links, we will reserve judgement for the PEOPLE OF CALIFORNIA to decide what is RIGHT for THEM -- as that is THEIR RIGHT.

Meanwhile, California -- Our Eyes Are On YOU to Decide What Is Right for You! Either way, we have your back!

[LanternWaste]

47. I especially liked how you immediately dismissed the evidence, then simply ignored it.

I especially liked how you immediately dismissed the evidence, then simply ignored it; critical thought is certainly inconvenient to a passionate bias, regardless of your trivialization of smileys, immediately followed by your own use of them (no doubt, holding others to a higher standard we hold ourselves to is also convenient to a bias).

[LovingA2andMI]

56. Yes, We Did...

That is our right to #FreeSpeech as with your comment is yours...So...

[haele]

50. Are you in California?

Were you born here? Do you work here?

Have you experienced or looked at the various "California as a separate nation" movements that have gone on over the past 40 years?
Have you ever looked at who is behind all these groups?

Obviously not.

I was born in California from second and third generation Californians, have lots of family here all over the state, and currently live in San Diego - since 1985. I have a Bachelor's in Business, retired from the Navy here, have run a small side business here in the past, and am currently helping my stepdaughter run her small business, worked local Shipyards in the past, and currently still work in the public sector.

I know pretty near all the ways the Federal government are entwined in Californian economy.
Over the past thirty years, every single time this "Independent California" comes up, it's always backed by some rich MF'er who has had previously tried to get control over public lands near his or her house.

Either some group of business folk from Silicon Valley, or some naturalized foreign businessman who can't understand he can't buy whatever property he wants just because he's rich as could be done in the country he came from.

Independent California - it's a beautiful dream. But to become independent, it will take far more effort and time than these professional petitioners are willing to wait - because the people who start these movements really just want personal access to the public land and infrastructure. Most of these groups really don't care about the actual state of California or long term effects.

Ask any reputable economist. Because of the way the Federal government is set up, it would take decades for a state to break off - and that would be after both the Feds and the State agree to it and are willing to work together to make it happen.

Face it, if the U.S. becomes a temporary Trumpian third world hell hole, y'all need the Blue States to keep everyone propped up long enough to recover.

If the U.S. is going to split up, it needs to come from the Federal level. We are all in this together.

Haele

[Throd 2.0]

51. I'm in California and nobody is taking this seriously.

[Blue_Tires]

58. Nice dodge when confronted with evidence...

I'll just leave this here and bid adieu:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

[octoberlib]

141. Thank you.

Plus, California would have no military and would be taken over within a month if not by the US, then Russia, China or Mexico.

[Plucketeer]

17. Works for me!

And shouldn't be that hard to gather the required signatures.

[haele]

19. Calexit is a Russian operation. The organizer is currently living in Russia.

Divide and conquer is Putin's plan.
There's been a longing for "Cascadia" since the 70's when California started becoming the butt of jokes in the Midwest - we are disparagingly viewed as the La-La land Hollywood types, limousine liberal activists, the land of Fruits, Nuts and Flakes. Even though we have more "Christian" churches per person than most states, we have a strong hard-working rural presence in our population - farming, mining, and forestry are the backbone of most of our major exports, and there's a lot of manufacturing in this state (along with lots of racist red-necks), somehow, Californians just aren't "Real Americans" to the rest of the country.

I was born in California, stationed in California, and currently live here. There's absolutely no way we can currently sustain our 6th greatest economy in the world status if we succeed at this point in time; we have to make a real effort untangle ourselves from the federal funding much of our worker economy depends as a subsidy to help them live in California on before we can even start the process - and that can take years.

This is all propaganda - smoke and mirrors to further destabilize the U.S.. If California just up and left the U.S. in the economic state we are in right now - and they let us without any penalty, such as war or economic sanctions - we would become a third world country before the end of the year we did so.

Haele

[Hekate]

24. Thanks Haele. This info should chill us all to the bone.

[LovingA2andMI]

26. And again, your proof of this is....

[fountainofyouth]

28. It's true

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/From-his-home-in-Russia-Calexit-leader-plots-10796796.php

[politicat]

29. Sources

http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2016/12/13/from-his-home-in-russia-calexit-leader-plots-california-secession/

http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essential-politics-updates-calexit-organizers-say-they-ve-opened-1482187671-htmlstory.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/yes-california-moscow-embassy-russia-2016-12

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/why-russia-loves-the-idea-of-california-seceding-214632

http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/11/26/calexit-meet-the-founders-of-californias-separatist-movement/

[LovingA2andMI]

34. So here is a logical question or two....

Why exactly would this "leader" of #Calexit not be Happy As Peaches with an America #Occupied By Trumpskin in the White House?

And it appears there are VARIOUS GROUPS involved in the #Calexit Movement -- this can all of the VARIOUS GROUPS be just generally accused of being "Russian Operatives"?

The attorney general’s office will give the ballot measure a title and summary, and Evans said he hopes to begin collecting signatures to get it on the ballot in the spring. Qualifying ballot measures typically requires significant resources to pay signature gatherers, and Yes California doesn’t have major financial backing. But Evans said 13,000 people have volunteered to collect signatures.

“This is real,” Evans said. “We treat it seriously.”

Various groups have made noise about California forming its own country in the wake of Trump’s election this month, most prominently Silicon Valley financier Shervin Pishevar. But similar proposals have dotted the state’s political landscape for years. Yes California has tried and failed previously, and Silicon Valley venture capitalist Tim Draper was not able to get a proposal to split California into six states onto the 2016 ballot.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essential-politics-california-secession-calexit-htmlstory.html

[politicat]

55. *Sigh* okay, let's go back to Destabilization 101.

1. Russia has been economically fucked for 60 years. Under communism, they claimed industrial capacity they didn't have, and what there was of it got looted in the fall. They have all the markers of a failing state -- shortening life-spans, addictions rising, brain drain, religious and political authoritarianism, failing infrastructure, list goes on. They have not significantly added any manufacturing capacity in 30 years, and what wealth they once had or generated has been sucked out of the society and off-shored in very few hands.

2) John McCain is not wrong when he describes Russia as a gas station masquerading as a country. Petro is their major export and primary source of funds. With oil prices low and sanctions, they're economically tenuous. Their primary goal is to get oil back above $75 a barrel. War and chaos are good for that.

3) they know they can't make a direct military challenge and win. They've been supporting proxy wars and making relatively small incursions, but they don't have the personnel or wealth or production capacity to support a large scale war.

4) this is a classic example of the scam "let's you and him fight." It doesn't matter to the third party who wins in that situation, it just matters that the other two are fighting amongst themselves and ignoring everything around them, and the fight itself generates chaos that the third party can use for their own advantage. This is especially true of when we're talking an economically unstable, kleptocratic, authoritarian regime that's keeping itself together with baling wire and wheat paste.

5) we've already seen multiple examples of their effectiveness at destabilization. They spent a year or more prepping the ground with propaganda before they invaded Crimea. This is their playbook right now because it's cheap, hard to track, and profitable. We're not talking a huge conspiracy here -- it doesn't need to be. They're merely exploiting weaknesses in systems and seeing where it falls out, because the end result doesn't matter.

6) Break California or Cascadia from the rest of the US? That coast is then poorly defended, and the rest of the former country experiences a massive economic contraction. Think about what's based in California -- most of the entertainment industry, which is one of the US's major exports, and the tech industry, also major export, and the North American continent's only source of a Mediterranean climate. There's no way this ends well for anyone. California/Cascadia becomes much easier to physically invade, if that's the goal, and the rest of the former country has little incentive to help.

7) We have done this secession thing. It didn't work out well for the seceders. It rarely does. Name one successful separatist state.

8) even assuming that it's just one crank, the effects of a secession are still distraction, chaos, resentment and division.

[haele]

33. Google is your friend... Louis J. Marinelli is the founder of "Yes California"

Yes California has been behind the movement "Calexit" for the past year and a half.
Louis J. Marinelli's residence is in...

Wait for it...

Yakenterinberg, Russia

He still goes over to Russia and teaches half years. He maintains an apartment in San Diego, which is where he lists his U.S. residence whenever he decides to run for political office or start petitions to get on the California ballot. People who live in that neighborhood - including one of my co-workers whom I just asked to say he's there maybe about five or six months during the winter - in fact, he's there right now.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/the-conversation/sd-calexit-leaders-lives-in-russia-20161216-htmlstory.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_J._Marinelli

Haele

[LovingA2andMI]

37. Yes, It Is...

Scroll Up -- (As The L.A. Times Link is one of the links of Proof YOU PROVIDED). #FYI

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1680356

[TranssexualKaren]

27. Well what do you suggest as an alternative?

if the only alternative is to sit back and watch our country morph into a third world country I'm all for it.

[haele]

46. Do you live here in California? Or are you just wanting to see Trump fail in the U.S.

A good third of California's economy is tied up in the Federal government, through grants, contracts, programs, and through Federal organizations. Most of the critical workforce - the $11.00 to $25.00 an hour workers - can only live in California due to federal programs and subsides, either paid to the State, or paid directly to them.

To a man, every one of these people who are organizing separatist movements are wealthy enough they can either afford to go somewhere else and live in comfort off their businesses while the state struggles to keep it's workers sustained or they're waiting to use their wealth to buy up former Federal properties at fire sale discounts so they can create their own little walled off fiefdoms from formerly public lands.
Oh, they talk a good story. But when you follow the personalities behind Calexit, you always find yourself back to either wealthy people who have large tracts public lands next to their property, or new-money socialites and/or successful entrepreneurs from out of state who are professional "organizers" for a hobby.
Old-timers and people who work in the public sphere for a living in this state reject Calexit pretty much to a person. Heck, most people who work for a living think Calexit is stupidly short-sighted.

If we left now, or in 2019, or even in 2025, this state would become another third world country within two or three years.

Haele

[LovingA2andMI]

30. Lastly....There are HUGE hurdles to reach here...

First, the #Calexit organization must receive upwards of 600K VALID registered voters only signatures.

Those signatures would need to be verified by California Secretary of State Office. Equally, the referendum petition signatures would have to defend against what would be a court challenge likely up to the California Supreme Court.

If all this fell in the favor of #Caliexit (and that is a big IF) then comes the Campaign. There is big money in California and there will be big money spend for and against #Caliexit. In the end, it is doubtful the referendum would successful in a Statewide Vote of the People....

However, the symbolism is huge.

Cheeto Trumpskin is destroying American Democracy and Unity, period. And regardless to if #Calexit ever gets off the ground beyond the Petition approval AT ALL -- the fact a petition has been approved for a State to gather signatures seeking to leave the Union - is in itself symbolic and says plenty about the State of Unrest in America with Trumpskin Occupying the White House.

[TranssexualKaren]

32. so what???

We could not have achieved independence in 1781 without help from the French who certainly weren't interested in freedom and democracy in helping us. Look at the big picture. In our current form, the United States has ceased to function as a country. Perhaps we are to big. But progress is not possible without a change in our national makeup.

[Tikki]

115. One organizer, there are others...this has been going on for years..always follow the money..

and sponsors on anything like a petition you sign.


Tikki

[Auggie]

31. Absurd and immature. If this makes the ballot I will vote against it ...

our efforts and money should be spent on flipping California's Republican congressional districts to Democratic.

[AlexSFCA]

39. the worst idea

This is enormous waste of time. Trump has neary unlimited power now: CIA, NSA, FBI, Military, etc.
If he wants to destroy our state he will stop at nothing.

[TranssexualKaren]

44. The people will always win.

Gandhi brought down the British empire without firing a shot.

[EX500rider]

114. "The people will always win." North Korean's beg to differ...

[Throd 2.0]

48. My part of the state wants to secede from California.

That will never happen either. This whole idea is a non-starter.

[meadowlark5]

52. Since Trump's north korean twin wants to lob a nuke at the US

What would the state do about a military or missile defense? California is an economic powerhouse for the US but when it stands alone on issues of defense, what would they do?

[E.A.B.]

53. This kind of nonsense empowers Trump.

Yes, Trump in a week has demonstrated that he's able and willing to leave George W. Bush in the dust for the title of worst President ever.

But are we going to spend a year discussing whether we should wreck the country ourselves instead of fighting back against him? This will just turn attention away his antics as he'll be able to say, "Look at those unpatriotic Californians!"

We need to focus our energies on real fights and to be strategic instead of trying to figure out extravagant and self-destructive ways of venting our frustrations.

[delisen]

54. Calexit headed by guy in Russia

Funny stuff

<http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/From-his-home-in-Russia-Calexit-leader-plots-10796796.php>

Wants to open California embassy in Moscow

[SpankMe]

57. My fantasy would be Ecotopia

https://www.amazon.com/Ecotopia-Ernest-Callenbach/dp/0553348477/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1485534497&sr=1-1&keywords=ecotopia

A novel form the '80s where California, Oregon and Washington secede and create a sustainable eco-state.

But, secession of Cali is so impossible and so not gonna happen, that I think it's a waste of time to pursue it and it makes us a bit of a laughing stock (just like we ridicule Texas for their secessionist wackos).

[melm00se]

59. Tell me how the last states

who wanted to secede fared.

say the ones back in 1861?

[TranssexualKaren]

61. The last States that tried to secede

The last States that tried to secede were The Czech Republic and Slovakia and it went off successfully. They could not have fought the cival war in full view of the 21st century media. The people would have stopped it.

[melm00se]

64. California is not a European state

but part of the United States which does not have a secession process built into the US Constitution but you knew that.

[TranssexualKaren]

69. You're not responding to my central point

Do you think the U.S. Civil War could have been fought in full view of modern media. Eventually political pressure would force Trump to back down

[onenote]

77. The pressure to back down will be from the Federal government on California

not the other way around.

The federal government doesn't have to engage in a shooting war to cripple the California economy. It can simple impose travel bans and economic sanctions.
No tourism coming in. No produce going out.

[4Q2u2]

81. Actually

Some of the Battles had live audiences until they found out how gruesome War really is.

Wars since Vietnam have been broadcast live on American TV's.
Social media posts show horrific acts every day all around the world.

I think you are misgiven about what side the pressure will come from. Speaking of the Civil War, after the amount of Bloodshed and money it took to keep us a Union. Do you think the rest of America is just going to forget that and wish California well and goodbye?

[haele]

88. No, doesn't need to be a shooting war. That's so last century.

All they have to do is:
1) Remove all Federal installations and revoke U.S. citizenship.
After all, we're no longer part of the Federal compact, correct? Military, Ag., Interior, HHS - Labs, Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, Disability, HUD, SNAP, WIC, Universities, Maritime facilities, Air traffic Control, Parks...

The Feds can decide that people who get federal subsidies now aren't entitled to them. If you're on SSI or SSDI, you can't get it if you're no longer a U.S. Citizen.

There goes at least 1/2 of the California economy.

2) Require us to lease any Federal project or facility that might need to stay in California that is also used by Californians. Lighthouses.

3) Require us to pay for any infrastructure that comes into California. Roads, rail ... energy, water...

4) Slap a tariff on any product out of California. Say, 20%, Trump and the Republicans love nice big round numbers.

And then the RepubliCons and their pet Media stooges will say - "Oh, look at those poor stupid Californians, with all those old people, families, and disabled people starving in the street while they try to get their act together. They thought they could just leave and keep getting tax money and services that other U.S. Citizens work hard to pay for."

Haele

[haele]

80. Those were already autonomous states. Big difference from the states in the U.S.A.

The Czech Republic, Slovakia, the various Slavic states, et all, were never "federalized" in the way the U.S. was.
For one, they have a majority population with unique cultures and languages. When they were part of a Federated States, they still retained their identity as a relatively homogeneous locally controlled community, with it's own managed local economy and infrastructure, as well as a separate language as their primary language. Most of the inhabitants of those states only learned the language of the Federal government as a second language - if they had to.
These were assimilated states, there was never a majority vote of the people to become part of the Soviet, or Yugoslavia - or Iraq.


Compare that to the states in the United States. The western United States began as sparsely populated territories bought or acquired via treaty, and settled through a majority population with the same cultural background and language of the primary Federal government.
While the indigenous populations had not been consulted over the settlements, they were basically so overwhelmed on a local level by the white settlers, there was not a chance to maintain a common governance that would be able to maintain enough sovereignty of culture and economics that they could potentially separate and not be affected by that separation.
So; California started out as a Spanish colony, even when it was Mexican Territory, any Mexican influence was completely overwhelmed and co-opted by the American settlers by the time California became a state. California, as all the other States, voted to become a state by a significant majority of the population. There is no "California Culture" that can uniquely identify people in California. More people still come to settle in California from all over than remain.
And if, for some reason, we just split from the United States without a major investment in time and planning, we will fall apart internally, as each region within California will struggle to take control of the direction of the state.

Our current strength as a State, the driver of our economy, is rooted in being part of the United States - from which most of our native population came from.

Now, if Puerto Rico, Guam, American Samoa, U.S. Virgin Islands, or any of the other territories that we currently hold decide to become states, or decide to go independent, they have a much better chance of a successful, peaceful secession than even Hawaii or Alaska currently could - because even if they did toy with statehood, and they do have U.S. Federal investments located in their territories, they are a majority population of long-time natives with their own cultures, local governance, and language.

Haele

[EarthFirst]

60. Is Cambridge Analytica behind this one as well? nt

[ghostsinthemachine]

62. Why the fuck not?

I am a NORCAL native and it bugs the shit out of me that a bunch of backwards rubes, thumping the Bible, are making policy which affects me and my state.

Let's seceed.. Renegotiate drilling and mineral rights agreements. Keep our water. Become the pot paradise every knows is coming. Become the renewable energy paradise we all can see happening right now . We would pay a reasonable amount for defense. (Oregon won't invade I don't think) and have a smaller, more representative govt. We have a lot of industry, industry that currently drives the US economy, imagine if those revenues were only used in CA?. As it is now, more CA money goes to other states, than stays here.

[The River]

65. Also in NORCAL

and I think it's a bad idea. Are you also for the "State of Jefferson"?

I'm old and would probably not live long enough to see the results but I can just imagine.
Could California afford to cover Social Security payments?
U.S. Government retirees?
Military retirees and Veterans medical (VA)?

California needs to lead the resistance.
We are and will continue to be a good example to the rest of America
of what a State can be under good Democratic governance.

From a Joint Statement from California Legislative Leaders on Result of Presidential Election
Wednesday, November 09, 2016

"While Donald Trump may have won the presidency, he hasn’t changed our values. America is greater than any one man or party. We will not be dragged back into the past. We will lead the resistance to any effort that would shred our social fabric or our Constitution.

California was not a part of this nation when its history began, but we are clearly now the keeper of its future."

[ghostsinthemachine]

67. No, State of Jefferson is idiotic

What they want is dumb and won't work. No industry. No revenue.

[Throd 2.0]

68. Your attitude is why the Jefferson movement exists.

Well done.

[ghostsinthemachine]

70. Okay, I think

I'm one hundred percent against the Jefferson movement. But all of CA? Man that makes a lot of sense. screw. Alabama. Screw Iowa. Screw Floridà. Screw Ohio.

[marlakay]

71. The hope is to get us busy on something that won't work

Fighting against each other both on this and other issues, too busy fighting to deal affectively with Trump and his followers.

[TranssexualKaren]

72. To my Original argument

Without pointing a finger at red state people or even Donald Trump. Our current political system is simple broken. We are not a single country any longer, we are two countries with irreconcilable differences.
If you insist that can't be done then tell me what olution you can propose to srestore a government that works for the people?

[Throd 2.0]

74. Those same differences exist with California.

Placerville and Berkeley might as well be on separate planets.

[TranssexualKaren]

75. Perhaps, but.

I'm not arguing that we would be a homogenous entity. But as things stand we cannot even get high speed rail as it is child's play for a billionaire at the top to sabotage it. We are saddled with an electoral college and gerrymandering rules that have allowed a moneyed minority political party to overrule the will of the people and a senate which pro is a logarithmic increase in representation to a Montana voter over a California voter. These problems are set in stone.
We cannot move forward in our current form.

[4Q2u2]

78. They may Vote but there are a lot of others who will want a say.

Too much blood and coin were spent to keep and make this Union, and it is all the more incepted that it is being foisted on America by a Russian(part time American) who seems to be totally ignoring our history and the sacrifices made by previous generations.
California may vote on it, but the rest of the country is not going to allow it.
Do you think Trump, the House, Senate and Judiciary want to be remembered as the people who let California secede?

Abraham Lincoln is one of our most Revered Presidents. Are we to let his and the countries struggles disintegrate because California did not get their way? News Flash, lots of us did not get our way.

[TranssexualKaren]

79. Just look at history.

History is full of examples of things that only a few years earlier seamed impossible.

Remember the Chinese proverb: "he who insists a thing cannot be done should get out of the way of the one who is doing it".

[4Q2u2]

83. History

"Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it."

[TranssexualKaren]

84. My point exactly.

[4Q2u2]

85. Then you missed the point

We already had a secession movement and it tore the country apart. You think it is dysfunctional now, add greater in-fighting and trillions of dollars. It will be another bloodbath. Wither actually or politically.

[TranssexualKaren]

90. Not a valid comparison

the Civil War could not have been fought in full view of modern media. In the same way the British thought that they could crush Indian independence in the 20th century using 19th century methods. The Soviet Union dissolved without firing a shot. I believe that a consensus alone would be sufficient for California secession.

[4Q2u2]

94. Soviet Union

Was a forced Union that was held together by many shots fired over many years. Hungary anybody?
Britain losing India is not Britain losing Cornwall. I think the British may have also been busy in their back yard with other problems.

[TranssexualKaren]

97. Consensus

It wasn't until 1991 that a consensus existed for dissolution. We think of the soviet union as having been a nation of Soljinitzens desperately struggling to undo the Soviet Unionut the truth is that the average person just wanted to get along and not be bothered. The dissent had to reach a critical mass.

[4Q2u2]

101. How did they get there

It was not political crisis. It was economic crisis. Saint Ronny took the Russian on a shopping trip and bankrupted them before he bankrupted us. No money for bread, and no money for weapons. So when people protested food shortages, the Commissars had no one and nothing to shoot them with.

It is a beautiful story with such a happy ending.
Remember folks "Kill a Commie for Mommy today".

[TranssexualKaren]

103. Because we are in a crisis!!!

Our political system hasn't been adaquately functioning for dacades now.

[4Q2u2]

113. That is right

It is only politics. Not economic, not threat of harm.
Decades? We just had a Democratic President for 8 yrs. It has been 1 week of Trump. Politics can be overcome.
We survived 8 yrs of Bushie 2. 4 of Bushie 1, and 8 of Saint Ronnie.

Not to mention Herbert Hoover, Calvin Coolidge, Ford, Nixon.

[TranssexualKaren]

117. This is different.

Our democracy has truly been overthrown at this point. Were it not for the electoral college, gerrymandering and the fact that the senate is weighted by state rather than population progressives would control the government top to bottom.
"When a government becomes destructive to these ends it is the duty of the people to abolish it"

[ManiacJoe]

87. It is an interesting academic excersize,

but there is no legal way to leave the union once joined. Not even for Texas. So say the legal professionals.

[WhiteTara]

91. I hope Calfornians realize this is a Russian plot

Here are a few links to this.

From his home in Russia, #Calexit leader plots California secession
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/From-his-home-in-Russia-Calexit-leader-plots-10796796.php

Why Russia Loves the Idea of California Seceding
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/why-russia-loves-the-idea-of-california-seceding-214632

How to Make California Great: Secede, With a Little Help From Putin
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2016-12-07/how-to-make-california-great-secede-with-a-little-help-from-putin

Don't be fooled. This is NOT a great plan.

[TranssexualKaren]

92. So what?

We could not have gained our independence without help from France. France hadn't its own reasons for helping that had nothing to do with freedom or democracy, but we used their help to achieve them.

[Pathwalker]

93. And who thinks Trump won't send in the troops to stop it?

This has Civil War Two screaming all over it, never mind all the military and naval bases and military construction companies that will disappear. Does anyone think that Trump will not react violently to this?

[4Q2u2]

95. Karen does not

She thinks we will all wave goodbye and good luck to Cali.

I also think she may have a spare rubber band and two extra buttons lying around.

[TranssexualKaren]

96. See Quabec

The only reason Quabec failed to gain its independence was that the vote fell short of approving it. No one even considered the possibility that Canada would resort to its military to restore its union. This isn't the 19th century. If a consensus of Californians wanted independence there will be a way.

[4Q2u2]

98. Facts not in evidence

You have no idea what the Canadian Gov't nor it's people would have done if the vote was approved.

I assume you mean Quebec?
Unless Quabec was trying to secede and I am not familiar with that State, Province, country.

[TranssexualKaren]

100. Forgive my spelling

Come on!!! You aseriously believe the Canadian government would have sent in the tanks in full view of world opinion to put down the quabequois.

[Pathwalker]

110. Do you seriously believe Trump wouldn't?

There is a huuuge amount of military industrial complex all through that state, and he will do anything to "protect" it for America. This is America, we're nowhere nearly as civilized as Canada, and Republicans love war more than anything else. Seriously.

[TranssexualKaren]

111. I will go to my grave...

Proudly refusing to submit to Donald J. Trump.

[Pathwalker]

116. That doesn't answer my question. Yould just be one of many

thousand casualties, including the former UNITED States. It is my honest belief that this would start a Civil War.

[TranssexualKaren]

120. Well, I suppose everyone has a right to their own opinion then

[sakabatou]

99. Isn't secession illegal?

[TranssexualKaren]

102. So was the American Revolution

[sakabatou]

106. What's your point?

[TranssexualKaren]

108. I only wish to suggest that stating that something is illegal does not make it wrong.

[sakabatou]

123. Texas v. White says otherwise

[pangaia]

104. Don't do it. The Russians want this to happen...

Part of their "disaster, destabilize" plan....

[TranssexualKaren]

107. So did the French

The French, acting from their own cynical motives helped our revolution yet it sowed the seeds of their own destruction.

[BamaRefugee]

119. as a Proud Californian

I think a WAAAY better nickname than "Calexit" is

"CALOFFRAMP"

[struggle4progress]

125. Pop quiz! Name the US Presidents from California

[Throd 2.0]

126. I can only think of one who was born here.

[struggle4progress]

127. Another was governor. The third had an association with Stanford

[brush]

132. Just thought of something. Calexit can be used as a bargaining chip to get the electoral college ...

fixed of ditched altogether.

That way California's votes will have the weight they should have in presidential elections.

[ManiacJoe]

135. You should probably clarify your "should have".

[brush]

140. California should have more EC votes because of its 38m people.

Last edited Sat Jan 28, 2017, 06:40 AM - Edit history (1)

Wyoming only has some 600k people so proportionately each of its votes are worth 3 times as much as California's.

If votes were weighted appropriatedly we wouldn't have the orange bumbler in the White House who has in his first week in office been humiliated by both the Mexican president and British PM.

[LompocDem]

139. This is the only reason...

..right now that I would support this. Remembering all the negative repercussions we Dems say that will, and probably should happen when a red state suggests secession applies to us Californians also. Loss of DOD contracts alone, since we would be a foreign nation, would devastate San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco and even my hometown of Santa Barbara where much of this countries primary military defensive and offensive capabilities are created and developed not to mention the Vandenberg Airforce Base Space Command and launch site. That base and the federal corrections facility that the movie 'Falcon and the Snowman' was based on is a major income source for where I live in Lompoc Ca. I'm reminded of many posts talking of cutting off your nose to spite your face in those threads. I say, No Calexit but use our economic and progressive force to direct this country back on track.

Against the MIC? I'm with you. I was 8 when Dwight Eisenhower warned this country about the danger of the MIC driving our foreign policy and my dad who fought in WW2 and Korea said that he was the last honorable Republican President. President Eisenhower said...

Before and during the Second World War, American industries had successfully converted to defense production as the crisis demanded, but out of the war, what Eisenhower called a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions emerged. This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience Eisenhower warned, [while] we recognize the imperative need for this development.we must not fail to comprehend its grave implicationswe must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence…The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. Eisenhower cautioned that the federal government’s collaboration with an alliance of military and industrial leaders, though necessary, was vulnerable to abuse of power. Ike then counseled American citizens to be vigilant in monitoring the military-industrial complex. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

It's sad to have to look back more than 50 years and wonder why that message was lost. It's pure greed IMO.

[X_Digger]

133. Did someone lose a basket of socks? n/t

[AgadorSparticus]

136. No no no no no no no

[S_B_Jackson]

137. And what about the counties which have always been interested in the state of Jefferson?

What if they do not wish to join the Calexit?

[Tatiana]

138. California will stay and fight for our country, as will New York and Illinois.

This is nothing but Russian psyops.

We cannot lose a state with the 6th largest economy in the world -- larger than the entire country of Mexico.