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EL34x4

(2,003 posts)
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 03:33 PM Apr 2017

BART takeover robbery: 40 to 60 teens swarm train, rob weekend riders

Source: SF Gate

A recent string of robberies on BART trains took a frightening turn when dozens of juveniles swarmed an Oakland station over the weekend and commandeered a train car, forcing passengers to hand over bags and cell phones and leaving at least two with head injuries, witnesses told the transit agency.

The incident — the first of its kind in recent memory — occurred around 9:30 p.m. Saturday at Coliseum Station.

According to a police officials, witnesses said 40 to 60 juveniles flooded the station, jumped the fare gates and rushed to the second-story train platform. Some of the robbers apparently held open the doors of a Dublin-bound train car while others streamed inside, confronting and robbing and in some cases beating riders.

The juveniles “committed multiple strong-arm robberies of bags and cell phones,” said a police summary prepared after the incident. “At least two victims suffered head/facial injuries requiring medical attention.”



Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/BART-takeover-robbery-50-to-60-teens-swarm-11094745.php%20-?cmpid=nl_top



BART officials are withholding all video footage of the event because the perpetrators appear to be minors.
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BART takeover robbery: 40 to 60 teens swarm train, rob weekend riders (Original Post) EL34x4 Apr 2017 OP
Crazy:40-60 kids?! JudyM Apr 2017 #1
Happens in Philly and at malls from time to time HoneyBadger Apr 2017 #8
At least at the mall, you have a fighting chance to escape. EL34x4 Apr 2017 #9
Bored kids acting out HoneyBadger Apr 2017 #12
Fight... Baconator Apr 2017 #58
Nothing new in Philly HoneyBadger Apr 2017 #13
Minors? MINORS?!?!?! They're fucking train-robbers!!! Iggo Apr 2017 #2
I think they'll need protection from their parents, once the parents find out. NT mahatmakanejeeves Apr 2017 #3
My guess is Dad's absent, and Mom may have other priorities. nt appal_jack Apr 2017 #29
But they're just children. MicaelS Apr 2017 #10
Their brains are still developing Egnever Apr 2017 #39
If violence was involved then yes, they should be treated as adults. hack89 Apr 2017 #48
Trump could not have said it better. PdxSean Apr 2017 #52
Then lock up young violent offenders in dedicated facilities hack89 Apr 2017 #56
If my brother or I were involved in something like this I would want to be in jail. redstatebluegirl Apr 2017 #53
Legally there might be a distinction for a young teen... Baconator Apr 2017 #59
My first reaction as simple; that's really fucked up. vkkv Apr 2017 #4
My first reaction was... EL34x4 Apr 2017 #5
As pointed out, sarisataka Apr 2017 #27
Head of nail greeted by hammer. pablo_marmol Apr 2017 #43
Dunno about 4. This is exactly the kind of scenario CCW advocates put out there geek tragedy Apr 2017 #7
Nothing will happen, Oakland won't pay for it and the DA will refuse to prosecute ansible Apr 2017 #18
Come on, "their own people"?? So the train was full of criminals? No, NOT their people. 7962 Apr 2017 #22
By "their own people' - clearly I meant friends' families, locals, workers who commute on BART vkkv Apr 2017 #33
No, THEY are criminals, so their people, being like them, would also be criminals 7962 Apr 2017 #37
My mistake, from experience I should know there is no reasoning with vkkv Apr 2017 #41
YOU "go away" with the weak comparisons. You equate a speeder & a strong arm thief? 7962 Apr 2017 #47
Speed is the leading cause of automobile deaths by a LONG shot vkkv Apr 2017 #49
Actually alcohol is the leading cause in traffic fatalities. EX500rider Apr 2017 #57
That's not logical. Every "people" has treestar Apr 2017 #60
Their own people? exboyfil Apr 2017 #51
put their faces out there, the public has a right to know who these violent predators are geek tragedy Apr 2017 #6
more like cya (avoiding lawy suits) salin Apr 2017 #11
I'm suprised we've not heard from the CWP crowd. Dyedinthewoolliberal Apr 2017 #14
It's illegal in California ansible Apr 2017 #15
Good. Iggo Apr 2017 #16
Yeah, sure worked out well here... appal_jack Apr 2017 #30
Nobody got shot. Nobody died. Iggo Apr 2017 #36
I wouldn't expect to see this sort of group mayhem occur in a state that grants the right of defense pablo_marmol Apr 2017 #46
Actually, that is not correct. vkkv Apr 2017 #34
CCW's in CA are frequently granted in rural areas. pablo_marmol Apr 2017 #44
Plenty of videos out there show thats exactly what happens most of the time 7962 Apr 2017 #38
Truth. pablo_marmol Apr 2017 #45
Were they all wearing Raiders gear? Baclava Apr 2017 #17
What is wrong with the Raiders? HoneyBadger Apr 2017 #19
Show us the videos and I won't have to speculate. Baclava Apr 2017 #20
Decoys?? How much does a decent surveillance camera cost? DorothyG Apr 2017 #21
And now EVERYONE knows it. genius nt 7962 Apr 2017 #23
Well, there's still Youtube, surely the perps posted them on there by now Baclava Apr 2017 #25
I see you're unfamiliar with the Raider Nation archetype. nt Codeine Apr 2017 #24
As a Steelers fan I take my shots when I get them n/t Baclava Apr 2017 #26
Ouch Egnever Apr 2017 #40
And yet ... Raiders actual team is the only one in the league w/zero arrests last 3 years ... mr_lebowski Apr 2017 #55
PUre scum nt Lucky Luciano Apr 2017 #28
Wtf? Not releasing video cause they "appear" to be minors? Hassin Bin Sober Apr 2017 #31
Exactly... Baconator Apr 2017 #64
No sympathy for these punks Vogon_Glory Apr 2017 #32
40-60??? Pfft ! try 200-300 here. Although this was a few years ago and wilding in the streets lunasun Apr 2017 #35
NYC copycat? HoneyBadger Apr 2017 #42
So what would happen if 2-3 got shot during the crime? oneshooter Apr 2017 #50
A city like San Fran isn't going to let just ANYONE christx30 Apr 2017 #54
That's why there's a growing push for a national CCW law. EL34x4 Apr 2017 #61
...or the wealthy and connected. Baconator Apr 2017 #63
San Francisco has no choice in whether or not to hoinor CCW permits ripcord Apr 2017 #67
Here's the Jury Instruction hardluck Apr 2017 #62
They said they would circulate the video to the schools, etc. So they aren't withholding it entirely Yo_Mama Apr 2017 #65
What a crock... These "youths" commandeered a train, beat and robbed passengers... EL34x4 Apr 2017 #66
 

HoneyBadger

(2,297 posts)
8. Happens in Philly and at malls from time to time
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 03:56 PM
Apr 2017

They call them flash mobs. They do it in NYC, but no one steals anything, they just take off their pants.

http://abc7ny.com/society/photos-thousands-turn-out-for-no-pants-subway-ride/1692346/

 

EL34x4

(2,003 posts)
9. At least at the mall, you have a fighting chance to escape.
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 04:02 PM
Apr 2017

On a train, you are captive. Nowhere to go. Either comply or fight.

 

HoneyBadger

(2,297 posts)
13. Nothing new in Philly
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 04:22 PM
Apr 2017
http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/08/12/philadelphia.flash.mob.violence/

Things spiraled out of control in a flash when, according to Guendelsberger, the group of nearly 40 teens chased them down a nearby alley. The teens began punching her male friends in the head to knock them over and then kicked them once they were down on the ground.

Guendelsberger's boyfriend was left with a sneaker imprint on his forehead, she said. At one point someone tried to take her bag, and she was punched in the face, knocking her over.

Her tibia was snapped in half, and there was a crack in the bone behind her kneecap. It is being held together with screws.

"It was nuts," she said, gazing at her right leg inside a metal brace elevated on a kitchen chair. "We got off comparatively easy. It was awful, but nobody had anything permanent happen to them."

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
10. But they're just children.
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 04:08 PM
Apr 2017

They're brains are still developing. It's not their fault. They're not responsible.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
39. Their brains are still developing
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 11:18 PM
Apr 2017

What would you expect the punishment to be for something like this?

There should certainly be something but at the same time surely you are not suggesting that they should be treated as adults.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
48. If violence was involved then yes, they should be treated as adults.
Tue Apr 25, 2017, 07:22 AM
Apr 2017

time to spread the message that violence will not be tolerated in America.

PdxSean

(574 posts)
52. Trump could not have said it better.
Tue Apr 25, 2017, 11:53 AM
Apr 2017

Surely a civilized, moral, thinking society can hold minors accountable while recognizing that minors do not have the same cognitive, mental or emotional development of adults. Do you not agree that minors are too immature to have the right to vote?

hack89

(39,171 posts)
56. Then lock up young violent offenders in dedicated facilities
Tue Apr 25, 2017, 12:25 PM
Apr 2017

that cater towards their development into law abiding adults while protecting society from their violent ways. No automatic release from the juvenile system when they hit 18 - no locking up a 16 year for two years for a crime that would put a 18 year old in jail for 10.

redstatebluegirl

(12,253 posts)
53. If my brother or I were involved in something like this I would want to be in jail.
Tue Apr 25, 2017, 11:55 AM
Apr 2017

The alternative would be dealing with my Dad! Jail would be a much better option.

Baconator

(1,459 posts)
59. Legally there might be a distinction for a young teen...
Tue Apr 25, 2017, 02:49 PM
Apr 2017

... but in the moment I don't expect anyone to hold back in self defense.

 

vkkv

(3,384 posts)
4. My first reaction as simple; that's really fucked up.
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 03:50 PM
Apr 2017

2nd reaction is that this could become more commonplace.

3rd reaction is why are these kids screwing with mostly their own people?

4th reaction is I'm glad the paying riders weren't all with CCWs..

5th reaction is even an 8 yr old knows the difference between right and wrong. Lock'em up.

 

EL34x4

(2,003 posts)
5. My first reaction was...
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 03:53 PM
Apr 2017

...On Saturday night, 40-60 juveniles commandeered a train in San Francisco, robbed and beat the passengers, and only now are we hearing about this?

sarisataka

(18,019 posts)
27. As pointed out,
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 07:16 PM
Apr 2017

No guns involved, mostly "their own people" so 'meh, inner-city crime'; MSM and the vast majority of the country ignores it.

pablo_marmol

(2,375 posts)
43. Head of nail greeted by hammer.
Tue Apr 25, 2017, 03:25 AM
Apr 2017

Didn't bleed (much) so it didn't lead. If three perps would have shot some passengers and committed robbery it would have made the news earlier.
 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
7. Dunno about 4. This is exactly the kind of scenario CCW advocates put out there
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 03:54 PM
Apr 2017

to justify such measures.


 

ansible

(1,718 posts)
18. Nothing will happen, Oakland won't pay for it and the DA will refuse to prosecute
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 05:03 PM
Apr 2017

BART trains, especially around Oakland, don't have that many cameras to begin with so there won't be much evidence. And it'll probably happen again, BART is afraid of policing the Oakland area stations due to the Oskar Grant incident.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
22. Come on, "their own people"?? So the train was full of criminals? No, NOT their people.
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 07:08 PM
Apr 2017

The train was full of actual working people
And if your #2 is correct, then the end result will be #4.

 

vkkv

(3,384 posts)
33. By "their own people' - clearly I meant friends' families, locals, workers who commute on BART
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:49 PM
Apr 2017

instead of driving a plush car to a parking space.

OK, I'll bite. I wasn't picturing the racism that you've imagined nor was I calling their families "criminal".

Are you sure that none of your friends or family or friends' families ("your people&quot have driven drunk on occasion, run a stop light, supplied alcohol to a minor, stolen anything, taken illegal drugs??

No? Okay, than 'your people' are not criminals. Got it.


 

7962

(11,841 posts)
37. No, THEY are criminals, so their people, being like them, would also be criminals
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:46 PM
Apr 2017

As you said, the people on that train were most likely regular working folk & not like them at all, unless by simply living in the same area makes you the same.
criminals usually do their crimes locally
And WHAT racism? I saw no mention of race in the story. I didnt see a video, so how would i know what the race is of these fools?

 

vkkv

(3,384 posts)
41. My mistake, from experience I should know there is no reasoning with
Tue Apr 25, 2017, 12:14 AM
Apr 2017

you.

You use the word "criminal" only on those who do not break the law the same way as your family or friends even though they are likely breaking the law.

Know any pot smokers? Any pot smokers in your family? Yes, they are "criminals", too. Okay, they aren't Palestinian "terrorists" fighting to get back land that was stolen from them, but they are still criminals in the eye of the law.

The dirt-bag teenagers who robbed from their own working-class people are the lowest of the low and should be prosecuted, not unlike our gov't reps who steal from us while claiming to be one of us.

Now please, just stop, I'm asking you to PLEASE go away.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
47. YOU "go away" with the weak comparisons. You equate a speeder & a strong arm thief?
Tue Apr 25, 2017, 05:35 AM
Apr 2017

I guess you feel the same way about loading prisons with non violent criminals, right?
The bricklayer here illegally and the MS 13 member here illegally? I mean, theyre ALL criminals right? All deserve punishment!
I use "criminal" because its an accurate descriptor of these fools, not as a derogatory term. And it is accurate. Its really ver simple. You dont have to look for some darker meaning other than what the news says it is.

 

vkkv

(3,384 posts)
49. Speed is the leading cause of automobile deaths by a LONG shot
Tue Apr 25, 2017, 11:13 AM
Apr 2017

- and since there are 40k traffic deaths every year and that speeding is the #1 killer in traffic deaths
= speeding can be a criminal act.

EX500rider

(10,342 posts)
57. Actually alcohol is the leading cause in traffic fatalities.
Tue Apr 25, 2017, 01:26 PM
Apr 2017
According to NHTSA Traffic Safety Facts 2002, driving under the influence of alcohol is the third leading cause of motor vehicle crashes in the U.S., and is the number one cause of traffic fatalities. Also in 2002, alcohol was involved in 41% of fatal crashes in the U.S., and in six percent of all crashes.

exboyfil

(17,833 posts)
51. Their own people?
Tue Apr 25, 2017, 11:38 AM
Apr 2017

Really.

It might take only one CCW to persuade others that robbery is not an appropriate activity.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
6. put their faces out there, the public has a right to know who these violent predators are
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 03:53 PM
Apr 2017

so they can (a) avoid them out of safety and (b) alert law enforcement to their whereabouts.

F@ck that "they're minors so we need to protect their pwecious widdle pwivacy" nonsense.

salin

(48,954 posts)
11. more like cya (avoiding lawy suits)
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 04:08 PM
Apr 2017

due to possible law suits due to privacy legal issues of minors.

Dyedinthewoolliberal

(15,401 posts)
14. I'm suprised we've not heard from the CWP crowd.
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 04:26 PM
Apr 2017

You know, shoot the first one or two and the rest will leave..............
cwp = concealed weapon permit

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
30. Yeah, sure worked out well here...
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 07:45 PM
Apr 2017

Why should a victim of crime be able to defend themselves from potentially fatal beatings?



-app

pablo_marmol

(2,375 posts)
46. I wouldn't expect to see this sort of group mayhem occur in a state that grants the right of defense
Tue Apr 25, 2017, 03:43 AM
Apr 2017

to their citizens. States like Oregon and Washington for example -- that allowed concealed carry years before the "gunz happy" states of Texas and Arizona.

Of course if one of these punks would have been shot.......scattering the rest.......The Controllers would have a sad.

 

vkkv

(3,384 posts)
34. Actually, that is not correct.
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:55 PM
Apr 2017

Concealed carry weapons are a county issue. Sheriff Depts issue them within their own jurisdiction. Some counties will honor another county's permit, some won't

You may be thinking of "open carry".

pablo_marmol

(2,375 posts)
44. CCW's in CA are frequently granted in rural areas.
Tue Apr 25, 2017, 03:28 AM
Apr 2017

Densely populated urban areas? Nope. Unless of course you're a celebrity or are connected. May issue in CA is in practice corrupt issue.
 

7962

(11,841 posts)
38. Plenty of videos out there show thats exactly what happens most of the time
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:49 PM
Apr 2017

In this case I bet it would have been a stampede thru the door

pablo_marmol

(2,375 posts)
45. Truth.
Tue Apr 25, 2017, 03:30 AM
Apr 2017

Youtube is loaded with examples where the cowardly criminals scatter the moment they're on the receiving end of violence.
 

Baclava

(12,047 posts)
20. Show us the videos and I won't have to speculate.
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 05:38 PM
Apr 2017

"The agency...is in the midst of installing surveillance cameras in train cars after The Chronicle reported that most of the existing cameras were decoys."


 

Baclava

(12,047 posts)
25. Well, there's still Youtube, surely the perps posted them on there by now
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 07:12 PM
Apr 2017

Cell phones can be tracked, right?

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
55. And yet ... Raiders actual team is the only one in the league w/zero arrests last 3 years ...
Tue Apr 25, 2017, 12:14 PM
Apr 2017

#1 team, IIRC, in player arrests over past 3 years?

The 49er's.

And just because people wear Raiders gear, as you should be aware ... doesn't mean they're actual Raider fans ... the Coliseum BART station (and the Coliseum, of course) is on the outskirts of a very rough and downtrodden neighborhood.

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,155 posts)
31. Wtf? Not releasing video cause they "appear" to be minors?
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 07:50 PM
Apr 2017

So let's pre-coddle the scum before we know their actual ages.

Release the video so they can be caught. Remove it based on actual age proof if need be.

And if the minors and their parents don't like their photos in the media, too fucking bad. Next time don't rob trains.

Vogon_Glory

(9,034 posts)
32. No sympathy for these punks
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 08:29 PM
Apr 2017

And a lot of them are going to find out that "Find my phone" apps are NOT their friends.

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
35. 40-60??? Pfft ! try 200-300 here. Although this was a few years ago and wilding in the streets
Mon Apr 24, 2017, 09:09 PM
Apr 2017

more than outright train robbery
Punching and jumping on people shopping in a high end area were more prominent than robbery but that occurred plenty too and all are crimes!
Planned all on social media , cops got wise to it since, so I haven't heard recent years of any real big wildings, but about 20 or 30 teens attacked around university of Chicago last summer I recall.

Edit
Looked it up it was 2013 when those big mobs went downtown
Bad summer for that in Chicago
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/03/30/breaking-chicago-police-swarm-mag-mile-wilding-scene/

christx30

(6,241 posts)
54. A city like San Fran isn't going to let just ANYONE
Tue Apr 25, 2017, 12:10 PM
Apr 2017

legally carry a firearm. The only people allowed to carry one are the police. So unless a cop happens to be there on the train when something like this happens, the people are either going to have to comply with being robbed by 40-50 kids, or fight them bare handed. Lots of people are going to get hurt.

 

EL34x4

(2,003 posts)
61. That's why there's a growing push for a national CCW law.
Tue Apr 25, 2017, 03:02 PM
Apr 2017

Backed by the NRA and Republicans, "national concealed carry" means that someone with a CCW license issued from, say, Mississippi will be able to carry a concealed firearm in San Francisco.

ripcord

(4,943 posts)
67. San Francisco has no choice in whether or not to hoinor CCW permits
Tue Apr 25, 2017, 05:11 PM
Apr 2017

That decision is made at the state level, California only allows people with permits from California to carry, others state's permits are not allowed, so anyone with a CCW permit approved by a county sheriff and issued by the state can carry in San Francisco.

hardluck

(623 posts)
62. Here's the Jury Instruction
Tue Apr 25, 2017, 03:26 PM
Apr 2017

California is, by judicial precedent, a stand your ground state. There is no duty to retreat. Here's the applicable jury instruction:

505. Justifiable Homicide: Self-Defense or Defense of Another
The defendant is not guilty of (murder/ [or] manslaughter/ attempted murder/ [or] attempted voluntary manslaughter) if (he/she) was justified in (killing/attempting to kill) someone in (self-defense/ [or] defense of another). The defendant acted in lawful (self-defense/ [or] defense of another) if:
1. The defendant reasonably believed that (he/she/ [or] someone else/ [or] <insert name or description of third party> )
was in imminent danger of being killed or suffering great bodily injury [or was in imminent danger of being (raped/maimed/robbed/ <insert other forcible and atrocious crime&gt ];
2. The defendant reasonably believed that the immediate use of deadly force was necessary to defend against that danger;
AND
3. The defendant used no more force than was reasonably necessary to defend against that danger.

Belief in future harm is not sufficient, no matter how great or how likely the harm is believed to be. The defendant must have believed there was imminent danger of death or great bodily injury to (himself/herself/ [or] someone else). Defendant’s belief must have been reasonable and (he/she) must have acted only because of that belief. The defendant is only entitled to use that amount of force that a reasonable person would believe is necessary in the same situation. If the defendant used more force than was reasonable, the [attempted] killing was not justified.

When deciding whether the defendant’s beliefs were reasonable, consider all the circumstances as they were known to and appeared to the defendant and consider what a reasonable person in a similar situation with similar knowledge would have believed. If the defendant’s beliefs were reasonable, the danger does not need to have actually existed.

(The defendant’s belief that (he/she/ [or] someone else) was threatened may be reasonable even if (he/she) relied on information that was not true. However, the defendant must actually and reasonably have believed that the information was true.)

(If you find that <insert name of decedent/victim> threatened or harmed the defendant [or others] in the past, you may
consider that information in deciding whether the defendant’s conduct and beliefs were reasonable.)

(If you find that the defendant knew that <insert name of decedent/victim> had threatened or harmed others in the past, you may consider that information in deciding whether the defendant’s conduct and beliefs were reasonable.)

(Someone who has been threatened or harmed by a person in the past, is justified in acting more quickly or taking greater self-defense measures against that person.)

(If you find that the defendant received a threat from someone else that (he/she) reasonably associated with <insert name of decedent/victim>, you may consider that threat in deciding whether the defendant was justified in acting in (self-defense/ [or] defense of another).)

(A defendant is not required to retreat. He or she is entitled to stand his or her ground and defend himself or herself and, if reasonably necessary, to pursue an assailant until the danger of (death/great bodily injury/ <insert forcible and atrocious crime> ) has passed. This is so even if safety could have been achieved by retreating.)

(Great bodily injury means significant or substantial physical injury. It is an injury that is greater than minor or moderate harm.)

The People have the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the [attempted] killing was not justified. If the People have not met this burden, you must find the defendant not guilty of (murder/ [or] manslaughter/ attempted murder/ [or] attempted voluntary manslaughter)

California is a may issue state and the issuance of concealed carry permits is decided by the county sheriffs' office. Each county has its own rules. Rural counties such as Ventura county state that general self-defense meets the requirement of good cause. Other counties, such as Los Angeles (and i'm pretty sure SF and Alameda County) require an a more specific reason for good cause.




Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
65. They said they would circulate the video to the schools, etc. So they aren't withholding it entirely
Tue Apr 25, 2017, 04:23 PM
Apr 2017

Just from the general public.

 

EL34x4

(2,003 posts)
66. What a crock... These "youths" commandeered a train, beat and robbed passengers...
Tue Apr 25, 2017, 04:49 PM
Apr 2017

...That alone is probably a serious federal offense. And yet BART officials are treating this brazen attack as though these are nothing but youthful indiscretions, like TP'ing a house or egging some cars.

Great. They're going to show the footage to some schools. That ought to make everyone rest easy.

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