The Age of Trump Is Producing More Black Gun Owners

[hack89]

Source: NBC News

When Lesley Green was a little girl in Houston, Texas in the 1960s — just a few decades after the routine lynchings of blacks in the South — her father would go off to work a late-night shift and leave a gun and a pile of bullets behind. Nobody ever came looking. But even as an 11-year-old, learning to shoot a gun she could barely lift, Green said she recognized the important lesson her father was teaching her about being black in America: it's a dangerous world out there, and neither the government nor the police are likely be there to save you if trouble decides to make a visit.

Jones said that since the election he's seen about a three- or four-fold increase in African-Americans coming to his shop to buy firearms. Most of them are black women, he said, followed by senior citizens, younger people and college students. Many of them have also joined black gun clubs and the African-American gun association. Jones said that on a good day his chapter of the NAAGA can get as many as five to 10 inquiries about joining.

"We're seeing people in the African-American and the LGBTQ community coming in and asking questions and they want to learn how to shoot, and then purchase a firearm and then get a license in order to carry it," Cargill said. "It's different this time, versus when President Obama was in office. Back then, people were saying, 'Hey, I heard this was going to be banned, I want one of those,' without any research at all. Now people are doing their research and making informed decisions."

Cargill and other black gun dealers say they haven't suffered from the so-called "Trump Slump" that other sellers have. He credits his bump in sales as "directly related to the current administration."

Read more: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/age-trump-producing-more-black-gun-owners-n758211

---

More Democratic gun owners.

[Wounded Bear]

1. Not a gun owner myself, but I can empathize...

The rise in hate crimes and overt racism leads directly to this.

[RKP5637]

2. Same thoughts here! And tRump and his herd are fueling the hatred. b/t

[ck4829]

3. Everybody should have a plan for defense for themselves and and their loved ones

In this day and age, I think every group that the Adam Lanza and Dylann Roof Wannabes (or alt-right) don't like; be it black, liberal, immigrant, transgender, Muslim, etc. should have something on standby.

If it means cash under the bed and a plan to make a quick escape or having a firearm, then so be it.

[retrowire]

4. The only thing keeping me from being a gun owner

is my own mental health and acknowledgement that it would definitely exacerbate suicidal tendencies.

So I have baseball bats instead.

[hack89]

6. Wise choice nt

[OldRedneck]

9. Pepper spray

Big cans of it, always have on within reach.

https://www.sabrered.com/pepper-spray/home-defense-pepper-gel

https://www.sabrered.com/pepper-spray/3-1-pepper-spray-home-protection-kit-0

[retrowire]

11. Yes I was just saying to my wife we need more non lethal defense

Tasers and pepper spray!

Also, a readily boiled pot of water.

[qwlauren35]

56. I hear you.

I think I'd have killed myself if I had a gun in my house. But it's hard to hit ones self with a bat. I'm going to go get some.

[dalton99a]

5. I welcome this development

[OldRedneck]

7. As the rightwing gunnuts like to say:

The Second Amendment is not about squirrel hunting.

[muntrv]

8. 2nd Amendment remedies?

[IronLionZion]

10. "Now people are doing their research and making informed decisions."

Democrats would do well to learn about gun safety and teach their kids to avoid accidents. Republicans have spent the last 8 years talking about how our side is just asking to be victimized by criminals. Racist Republicans are probably the ones we have to worry about.

Also toddlers are killing more Americans than terrorists. http://www.snopes.com/toddlers-killed-americans-terrorists/

[Solly Mack]

12. Along with Sessions as AG...it is understandable.

...teaching her about being black in America: it's a dangerous world out there, and neither the government nor the police are likely be there to save you if trouble decides to make a visit

It has always been thus, though to varying degrees...but now it's as open and as encouraged as it was under Jim Crow.

The government, under Trump and Sessions, is likely to be the enabler of the trouble making a visit.

About being LGBT in America as well.

[Blue_Tires]

13. I'd have thought the Zimmerman case would have done that

Better late than never, I guess.

[BumRushDaShow]

14. But then remember what happened to Marissa Alexander

and the 20-year sentence meted out to her in Florida for attempting to use "Stand your ground". Fortunately the ridiculousness of it (and a new set of lawyers) finally resulted in a reduced sentence (after serving 6 years) -

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/07/us/marissa-alexander-released-stand-your-ground.html?_r=0

As was decided dejure with Dredd Scott, so too it continues to happen defacto today. I.e., POC are not considered "citizens" and thus cannot bring suit for relief against laws that negatively impact them.

[hack89]

16. That was not self defense by any reasonable standard

She left the house, went to her car to get her gun, went back into the house and shot at her ex husband and her children.

She was offered a very lenient plea bargain but rejected it.

[BumRushDaShow]

17. Her husband was a serial abuser

and this was not the first time he threatened her as he acknowledged per the linked article, but of course women are supposed to sit down and "take it". Ask Drumpf.

Florida is in the process of making changes to their law.

[hack89]

18. Then why did she go to his house?

They had been separated and we're living apart.

You can't escape to a safe area, get a weapon, and then go back attack someone. Stand your ground laws specifically forbid that scenario. If he had followed her then the shooting would have been justified.

The other big issue was that she endangered her kids - they were standing right next to him and testified that they thought they were going to be killed.

[BumRushDaShow]

19. It wasn't "his house"

She was staying at her mother's house since she just gave birth a little over a week prior. The question is - why was he there and why was he rifling through her phone text messages? Since he was one of those cross-country truckers, someone had to take care of his children and he obviously needed a place to stay other than a friend's house or in his truck (as was noted in the deposition).

The problem of domestic abuse is complex and if you look at the deposition here -

https://www.scribd.com/document/90595503/Marissa-Alexander-Alleged-Victim-Disposition#download

it's a pretty standard build-up to domestic violence.... something that someone like Zimmerman was a master at getting away with.

[hack89]

20. Actually it was

He had custody of the kids. She had not lived there for months. She also violated a restraining order to see him.

[BumRushDaShow]

21. The incident happened at her mother's house

where she was staying. He testified to confronting and assaulting her at least 3 times before. As I noted, her case was an obvious miscarriage of justice and thrown out and is leading to negotiations in the state legislature to change the law.

[hack89]

22. You really need to read the trial transcript

It was not her mothers house. It was his. It was still his when she return after the shooting incident and punched him out (she was arrest for assault again).

[BumRushDaShow]

23. I did read it and that was why I posted it.

The transcript including pages and pages of his descriptions of his assaults on her including what lead up to the final incident - apparent jealous rage of his finding text messages from her ex-husband on her phone.

I think you need deal with the fact that when a man continually and abusively confronts a woman, she has a right to defend.

I am about to go out for evening and will not be able to respond.

[hack89]

24. She said "I've got something for your ass" as she walked out of the room

to get her gun. She walked past the front door and safety. He did not grab her or attempt to stop her. She got her gun and came back into the house. And shot in the direction of her kids (who were standing with him).

It was mutually violent relationship - hence the restraining order she violated when she went to his house. She did not have to go there. She did not live there.

[BumRushDaShow]

25. Read pages 16 - 27

including pg19 where he testifies -

"I was mad, you know, and like I said, I called her a whore and a bitch and you ain't shit, like I told you, I told her, you know, I always told her that, if I can't have you, nobody going to have you. It's not the first time of every saying it to her.."

reiterating what he said on pg 17, and where he describes banging on the bathroom the door where she was. Plus on pg 20-21 where he says "I wouldn't let her by" and "I used my body to like keep her in the area."

Hang it up. You can keep justifying raging men but that don't play in my book.

[hack89]

28. So you concede that it was his house

And she had not lived there for months.

I never said he was not violent. I said the shooting was not self defense. All she had to do was get in her car and drive away. Or walk through the front door.

[BumRushDaShow]

32. No I have conceded nothing since you didn't read the articles.

You can keep taking up for a man that has admitted to a history of both verbal and physical abuse against her and you conveniently left out the part that he routinely did this in front of their children - by his own admission... and it just shows that this discussion is going to go nowhere.

[hack89]

33. That has nothing to do with self defense

She was in a safe place. She did not have to go back into the house. She could have walked away. The law is black and white.

[BumRushDaShow]

34. It does have to do with self defense

and the "right" to "stand your ground" based on the law in that state (that is in the process of being changed). But it is obvious that you are not getting that, nor the point of the OP. Your thought-process is what further drives an increase in gun ownership by POC and only proves what I originally posted about the continued disparate application of laws since the Dredd Scott decision.

[hack89]

35. Read the law.

she retreated. That means it can't be SYG . She came back with a gun. According to Florida law that made her the aggressor.

[BumRushDaShow]

36. The courts disagreed with that interpretation

which is why the sentence was overturned and she was freed and they are in the process of updating the law. Get woke.

[hack89]

37. She accepted a plea deal and admitted guilt

In exchange for time served. Which was three years. Which was the plea deal she rejected at the very beginning.

[BumRushDaShow]

38. And the law is in the process of being changed

since it continues to be disparately applied.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/03/florida-guns-stand-your-ground-law

[hack89]

39. It would not have made a difference in her case

Shifting the burden of proof to the prosecutor would not change things - there was not any real question that it was not SYG.

Three years was time enough. She deserved that much alone for endangering the kids.

[BumRushDaShow]

40. You left out this part

...defendants would no longer have to present evidence, typically by taking the stand, to prove their claim of self-defense.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/15/us/stand-your-ground-florida.html

[hack89]

41. Her kids testified against her

Their testimony alone made it clear it was not SYG.

[BumRushDaShow]

42. You completely ignored the proposed law change.

We are going to have to agree to disagree because it's obvious that this sub-thread is going nowhere.

[hack89]

44. That is the proposed law change

The burden of proof shifts to the prosecution. The kids would be prosecution witnesses.

[hack89]

29. But endangering the kids does play with you?

Ok.

[brush]

52. I'm glad she did. Why are you defending a womanbeater? She got tired of it and said enough is enough

If she wanted to shoot him she could have, instead she shot into the ceiling.

[hack89]

53. She shoot at his head

the bullet hole was in the wall not the ceiling. Which meant the bullet was within feet of her kids. That is why the kids testified against her.

Why didn't she stay away from him? She hadn't lived there for months. She violated a restraining order when she went uninvited to his house.

[Blue_Tires]

57. And neither was goddamned Zimmerman

but this is ground we've already trod a thousand times...

[hack89]

59. You are right - that was manslaughter at a minimum.

the difference here is that there were eye witnesses who testified against Alexander. Trayvon couldn't tell his story.

[NutmegYankee]

43. What got Marissa Alexander was that she left the danger, got a gun, and came back

If you have escaped the danger, and then choose to re-engage, self defense laws no longer protect your conduct. Legally, she has now become the aggressor.

[BumRushDaShow]

45. Again, the problem was the applicability of the law

where the prosecutors refused to bring charges against Zimmerman citing SYG despite an eventual argument of self-defense (which is why changes - obviously controversial - are being made to the law).

https://thinkprogress.org/why-stand-your-ground-is-central-to-george-zimmermans-case-after-all-e44da7e3856b

As I posted originally - the law applicability is never consistent when it comes to POC and stem from the Dredd Scott case, which is apparently the defacto stance nowadays.

[NutmegYankee]

46. Zimmerman had the luck to be the only survivor and tell a story of getting attacked.

In that scenario, he would be covered by self defense. Most of us including myself think his story is bullshit, but he had a plausible tale that was hard to disprove before a jury. Alexander clearly went outside for the gun and when firing did so through a wall. The two weren't even close legally.

[BumRushDaShow]

47. The problem is who gets a benefit of the doubt and who doesn't.

I.e., no equal application of jurisprudence. But that is something that has been a multi-century problem.

[NutmegYankee]

49. There wasn't much to doubt about Alexander's actions.

I absolutely believe a white male doing the same actions would face the same charges. You cannot justify going back into a house and firing a warning shot. It's not even close to legal in any state.

[BumRushDaShow]

50. White men don't need to fire a "warning shot"

They can do a kill shot and get away with it.

<...>

Mrs. Peairs went to the door of the carport to see who was there. She opened the door and saw Webb Haymaker, the 16-year-old with whose family Mr. Hattori was staying, standing a few yards away. 'Looking for the Party'

Mr. Haymaker testified that he said, "We're looking for the party."

Just then, Mrs. Peairs spotted Mr. Hattori coming around a corner. "He was coming real fast towards me," she testified. "I had never had somebody come at me like that before. I was terrified."

The young man spoke little English. Partly out of frustration, partly out of a desire to communicate instantly, testimony indicated, he often rushed up to people, waving his arms, which is what he did that night.

When Mrs. Peairs called her husband to get his gun, Mr. Peairs said he did not ask any questions. Rushing to a back room, he retrieved his revolver.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/05/24/us/acquittal-in-doorstep-killing-of-japanese-student.html?pagewanted=all

We have white cops doing this routinely and even killing POC claiming "self defense" and they are systematically acquitted, even with video evidence. The only thing that gets them are the civil cases.

Really - this topic is very much hot button and there are far too many cases of misapplication of or refusal to apply the law at all, in any "equal" fashion.

[madokie]

15. I'm not a gun owner myself

but I fully understand

[beachbum bob]

26. every one of my "liberal friends" have gotten the Firearm Owners Identification (FOID) card and many

have gotten weapons and training.....so its not just blacks......turning the other cheek doesn't work when those lashing out have weapons

[LovingA2andMI]

27. Gotta Protect Ourselves.....

Against The Crazy Sheep Followers of Cheeto -- By Any Means Necessary!!

[dalton99a]

31. We're living in unknown territory with dangerous wild animals

like racists with guns who now think they have a license to kill

[WellDarn]

30. I've carried since I was in junior high

Whenever I am at home.

Some of us are not going to let the cops turn us into Michael Brown.

When justice fails, it's the only option.

[moondust]

48. Maybe this will juice the arms race.

On the streets of Anytown, USA.

NRA and gun industry go wild!!!!!

[DinahMoeHum]

51. Probably the same thing with the LGTBQ contingent. . .

. . .known as the Pink Pistols. . .

http://pinkpistols.org/

"Armed Gays Don't Get Bashed"

"Pick on someone your own caliber"

[ileus]

54. More 2A progressives should help fend off attacks on the Second.

Voters make a difference...

[MicaelS]

55. Surprised the Usual Suspects haven't shown up...

Decrying gun ownership in general, gun proliferation, etc, etc, etc.

[LanternWaste]

58. This will solve.... something.

This will solve.... something.

As an increase in per capita firearms always and allegedly does.

Yet, as it strokes that warm narrative by no one who is either obvious or crass in the consistent attempt at it... woo-dippity-hoo.