Sources: Comey acted on Russian intelligence he knew was fake
Source: CNN
Washington (CNN)Then-FBI Director James Comey knew that a critical piece of information relating to the investigation into Hillary Clinton's email was fake -- created by Russian intelligence -- but he feared that if it became public it would undermine the probe and the Justice Department itself, according to multiple officials with knowledge of the process.
As a result, Comey acted unilaterally last summer to publicly declare the investigation over -- without consulting then-Attorney General Loretta Lynch -- while at the same time stating that Clinton had been "extremely careless" in her handling of classified information. His press conference caused a firestorm of controversy and drew criticism from both Democrats and Republicans.
Comey's actions based on what he knew was Russian disinformation offer a stark example of the way Russian interference impacted the decisions of the highest-level US officials during the 2016 campaign.
The Washington Post reported Wednesday that this Russian intelligence was unreliable. US officials now tell CNN that Comey and FBI officials actually knew early on that this intelligence was indeed false.
Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/26/politics/james-comey-fbi-investigation-fake-russian-intelligence/index.html?adkey=bn
underthematrix
(5,811 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)"Comey acted on Russian intelligence he knew was fake" makes it sound like he wanted to prosecute Hillary based on fake info. The opposite was true.
underthematrix
(5,811 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)underthematrix
(5,811 posts)but my comment was in relation to Comey's actions regarding the investigation which never should have been opened in the first place. This is borne out by the fact that he relied on clearly fabricated information from Russian intelligence designed to severely tarnish Hillary's reputation and thwart her expected win of the 2016 presidential election.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts).....the FBI involvement was inevitable. Hillary failed to comply with the federal records act. If she had done that, she would have been fine. There was a prohibition on the use of private e-mail, unless the employee forwards to or copies an official e-mail account within 60 days of the records creation., but she did not turn over her emails until 21 months after she left office and she had her own lawyers deciding which emails were personal and which were business. That is why the FBI had to examine her server. The person being investigated doesn't get to decide which information the FBI gets to look at in the investigation.
This was a self-inflicted wound.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)They are enforceable by civil lawsuit, which is what Judicial Watch did. Public employees absolutely do decide on a daily basis what is personal and what is private. If the law was what you claim, every public servant would be under FBI investigation. Remember, Colin Powell recommended to Hillary that she use private email, which is what he did. And he never turned over his public emails, let alone his personal emails. Neither did Condoleeza Rice. When Hillary had a private email server, it was NOT against the rules to use a private email address. That changed after she left the State Department. However, it was never and still is not against the law, i.e. a criminal violation.
The reason the FBI was involved was, as part of responding to the Judicial Watch FOIA request, various intelligence agencies had to look at the emails again to determine what should be publicly released to Judicial Watch. About 6 emails were determined to be classified as part of that review, even though they were not deemed classified at the time they were sent. It was stuff like a forwarded newspaper article about drones. As Hillary correctly said, it was over-classification run amok. But once some were deemed classified, even though it was after the fact, then the FBI became involved to determine if classified documents were improperly handled. And as everyone knows, the FBI came to the conclusion that there were no violations of law.
It was a right-wing-inflicted wound, aided and abetted by some on the left with Clinton derangement syndrome.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)within 60 days as the law required, she would have been fine.
Sorry, self inflicted wound.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)People violate that rule (again, NOT a criminal rule that the FBI is involved in) and they are never sued, let alone investigated by the FBI. Certainly Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice never were investigated for it. It was all about the after the fact classification in response to the Judicial Watch FOIA request. So no, Hillary would NOT have been fine even if she had turned over all the emails within 60 days. Most were instantaneously turned over upon sending because Hillary almost always copied the State Department. The witch hunt would still have happened over the private server---that no one else had been take to task for previously.
It was a right-wing-inflicted wound.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice did not use a private server.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)How is that better than Hillary at least going to the trouble of setting up a secured private server that is guarded by Secret Service at her home? Gmail is totally hackable. The FBI found NO evidence Hillary's server was hacked. And Colin and Condi never turned their emails over.
Yet, they were not sued under FOIA nor investigated by the FBI.
It's OK if you're a Republican. Or even more to the point, it's ok if you're not Hillary Clinton.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)is why she was investigated. When she was sued under FOIA in 2012, it came back "no records responsive to your request were located." That makes people suspicious. Having your own lawyers decide which emails are personal and which are not is suspicious. Would you trust Trump's lawyers to do that without verification? Of course not. It isn't about whether she committed crimes, rather that she stirred up suspicion which created this self-inflicted wound.
Powell said he never kept the emails in his possession when he left the State Department. Unlike Clinton, Powell's emails remained in government computer servers.
An aide to Rice, who now teaches at Stanford University, said that Rice herself never used email -- not even a personal email account -- during her tenure
http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/04/politics/hillary-clinton-email-classified-colin-powell-condoleezza-rice/
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)I see you are changing your reasons, but not your insistence on blaming Hillary for the whole email witch hunt.
As your own link states:
"Colin Powell and top staffers for Condoleezza Rice received classified information through personal email accounts,..."
Even if what Condi's aide says is true, that Condi never had her own private email account (highly doubtful), she admits that she had HER STAFFERS use private personal email accounts to get info to her. That is a distinction without a difference. Condi was just using middlemen to do the same thing Colin and Hillary did.
And NO, all of Powell's emails DID NOT "remain on government servers." Powell admitted otherwise:
Appearing on ABCs This Week Sunday, Powell responded to revelations that he used a personal email account, rather than a government one, when he was in charge of the State Department. Questions about his email use arose last week when it was disclosed that former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton used a personal email account during her tenure.
I dont have any to turn over. I did not keep a cache of them. I did not print them off. I do not have thousands of pages somewhere in my personal files, Powell said. A lot of the emails that came out of my personal account went into the State Department system. They were addressed to State Department employees and state.gov domain, but I dont know if the servers in the State Department captured those or not."
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/03/colin-powell-hillary-clinton-email-state-department-115870
So, "a lot of" is NOT the same as "all." Obviously, Colin Powell had something less than "a lot of" STATE DEPARTMENT BUSINESS emails on his private email account that he not only did not turn over to the State Department, but did not even preserve. Yet no FOIA lawsuit, no FBI investigation. Interesting, huh?
William769
(55,124 posts)SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)JHan
(10,173 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)You were defending Hillary by essentially saying that everyone did it. "Everybody else did it" is a defense best reserved for early childhood.....but parents never accept that as a valid excuse.
Of course this is Hillary's fault. She didn't have to set up a private server mixing her professional and private emails. Even then, if she had forwarded those emails to an official account, when the first FOIA request was made, they would have been released without controversy.
She is certainly to blame for stonewalling. If she had cooperated quickly, the entire investigation could have been concluded much sooner. She made this whole thing drag on throughout the entire primary season. She had nothing to hide, but she acted as if she did. Her paranoia (justified that it may have been) did her in.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)You absolutely implied Condi's and Colin's use of Gmail accounts was somehow better than Hillary using a private, secured email server.
And for fuck's sake, Hillary did not "stonewall." Clinton turned over 55,000 pages of emails to the State Department in early 2015--at the BEGINNING of the campaign. The controversy dragged on because the right wing, and some on the left who have Clinton Derangement Syndrome, kept repeating false propaganda about the emails, and the congressional Benghazi investigation latched on to it with a fever pitch, culminating in her having to testify before Congress. And Comey performed the final devastating blow when he sent out that bullshit October 28, 2016 letter implying the email investigation was re-opened, when in fact he had NOTHING new. She was on track to capture the nomination before that letter hit. THAT is what "did her in":
StevieM
(10,499 posts)the election. His actions were an assault on our democracy.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)they were emails...they could have been transferred electronically
she decided which emails to turn over. Don't try this at home, kids....if the FBI is investigating you.
Also, She refused for months to surrender the server. Months. Stonewalling....not a talking point.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)They were whining that the STATE DEPARTMENT gave them the 55,000 emails in hard copy. Judicial Watch wanted the meta data too, and apparently the State Department chose not to give it, producing the emails in hard copy, as they are allowed to do under FOIA. Judicial Watch's FOIA request was to the STATE DEPARTMENT, not Hillary. You can't serve FOIA requests on private individuals.
And yes, kids, this what public employees do every day, decide what emails to turn over. Hillary was not under FBI investigation when she turned over those emails. Indeed, she was never been the subject of an FBI investigation.
She never "refused" to turn over her server to the FBI. Within one week of the FBI beginning their investigation into the server, she turned over her server and a thumbdrive of the email in electronic format to the FBI. Here are the facts, virtualobserver:
Clinton spokesman Nick Merrill told CNN Tuesday that the Democratic presidential favorite has, "directed her team to give her email server that she used during her tenure as secretary to the Department of Justice, as well as a thumb drive containing copies of her emails already provided to the State Department."
"She pledged to cooperate with the government's security inquiry, and if there are more questions, we will continue to address them," Merrill said.
"In the meantime, her team has worked with the State Department to ensure her emails are stored in a safe and secure manner," he added.
A federal official confirmed last week that the FBI had begun a review of the security of Clinton's private email server after a referral last month to the Justice Department from the inspector general overseeing the government's intelligence community. The inspector general expressed concern about a "potential compromise of classified information.''
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/08/11/clinton-turns-over-email-server-justice-department/31496879/
Enough with the right wing talking points, virtualobserver.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)I will however, withdraw my "stonewalling" phrasing though, and acknowledge that it was State, not Hillary that turned the emails over on paper. I didn't realize that she gave up the server within a week of the start of the investigation.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)He said it to Fox News correspondent Catherine Herridge who asked him whether the FBI is conducting a security inquiry into the server.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)Cha
(295,899 posts)email accounts,..."
Mahalo for calling out the propaganda bullshite, SunSeeker. My sister is visiting from San Diego for 3 weeks and she was cheering on your exchange.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)Last edited Sat May 27, 2017, 03:11 PM - Edit history (1)
If I lived in San Diego I'd be there all the time. Awesome mai tais and half price pupus, plus best of all, during the happy hour (4-7 pm) on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays an awesome Hawaiian musician, Desi, plays live in the lounge. He takes requests and does a beautiful rendition of my favorite song, Ku'u Lei Awapuhi. Love that place!
http://www.balihairestaurant.com/
That way she can pretend she's back with you in paradise!
Cha
(295,899 posts)saying it was "a self-inflicted wound" when it wasn't.
Stop trying to blame Hillary for Every Thing.. it's NOT working.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)I just think that we need to acknowledge that she and Bill bear part of the blame.
I think that it is unfair to blame Comey for trying to thread the needle of trying to keep from alerting the people he was investigating for collusion with Russia while dealing with Bill foolishly fishing for clues from AG Lynch.
We can thank Comey for doing his job in terms of investigating Trump & Co.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)Nothing Bill did forced Comey to bash Hillary at that outrageous July press conference. It was Comey who brought disrepute to the FBI with that stunt.
StevieM
(10,499 posts)He ran into her and stopped to say hello. That's it.
He also took time to talk to Ted Cruz when he ran into him.
This is what Bill Clinton does. He schmoozes people.
StevieM
(10,499 posts)and his October Surprise, people often forget that part.
There was no basis for an FBI investigation. And having HRC labeled "under FBI investigation!!" did extraordinary damage from the get-go, and even more after it was spun-off in other directions, like the July press conference and the October Surprise.
Baitball Blogger
(46,570 posts)He says otherwise, but, really, he was never free of conflict of interests when it came to the Clintons. His prejudices may have pushed his hand.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Bill Clinton never should have approached AG Lynch.
DURHAM D
(32,595 posts)for his own political reasons? He was told they were fake but he still used them because he is a total f*ckwad.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)because he didn't want "sources and methods" to be revealed to the Russians by release of the fake "critical piece of information"
That is what the article actually says.
DURHAM D
(32,595 posts)He is full of his sanctimonious self. You are buying the bullshit convoluted argument to excuse his mistake in judgment.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Monday June 27th 2016- Bill Clinton approaches Lynch.
Tuesday July 5, 2016 - Comey announces that he is ending the investigation of Hillary
8 friggin' days later
I just think that Bill Clinton made it look like the Justice Dept. was compromised when he approached AG Lynch on the tarmac.
If Comey hadn't explained the FBI investigation,
people would have assumed that the FBI was compromised.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)And even after he did that, right wingers still thought the FBI was a tool of Obama, improperly letting Hillary off the hook. Comey's unethical diatribe against Hillary in that press conference in July was for one reason and one reason only: to get it the good graces of the right wing. It didn't work. But it sure wounded Hillary. Comey made a huge mistake. He should have just followed FBI policy in simply announcing the outcome of the FBI investigation without comment.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)Bill Clinton did NOT make him do that.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)that Hillary would not be prosecuted.
Dumb move.
DURHAM D
(32,595 posts)The fake emails said that Lynch was working with the Clinton campaign. Comey decided Lynch was compromised because of the fake emails, had nothing to do with Bill.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)What Comey feared was that since Bill Clinton stupidly compromised AG Lynch on the tarmac, the Russians would then leak their fake emails which would appear to confirm that Lynch was compromised, which would then force Comey to reveal publicly that he had fake emails from the Russians, which would then expose the methods by which the US government obtained the Russian info.
rzemanfl
(29,540 posts)SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)If Russians did leak these fake emails, the purported senders of the fake emails (Debbie Wasserman Schultz and a political operative) could easily and convincingly state they're fake. And if Comey was so worried about people not believing Schultz and the operative, Comey could confirm the emails were fake by stating the purported sender's email accounts were analyzed by the FBI and the FBI thus confirmed the emails were indeed fake. He does not even have to reveal that the fake emails were from the Russians. This in no way exposes "the methods by which the US government obtained the Russian info." This "protecting methods from exposure" excuse offered by an unnamed "source close to Comey" is bullshit and the source knew it. That is why this source(s) then added, "There were other factors behind Comey's decision." And that is why, as explicitly stated at the OP link, CNN had to update its story on this to add the line, "UPDATE AND CLARIFICATION: This story has been updated to reflect that there were additional factors behind Comey's decision and to clarify the description of the political operative."
Try again, virtualobserver.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)if it was leaked, the Russians would know that we intercepted it from them.....Comey doesn't have to name them...they know that they are the ones who created the email.
it has nothing to do with whether we could credibly refute the emails....it exposed the fact that we could intercept this information from Russian sources. Comey was investigating Russian ties to the Trump campaign. It could have jeopardized other parts of the investigation.
Comey's concern about whether the public would believe this only became a big issue when Bill Clinton ambushed AG Lynch on the Tarmac. The fake email would then seem to confirm that Lynch was compromised.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)They would be in the public domain. Re-read the OP article. The CNN source claims Comey feared the Russians would "drop" (disseminate into the public domain) the emails and that the emails would make the FBI look bad, and that Comey feared disputing the emails would reveal sources and methods. That excuse is total bullshit. If the emails were in the public domain, Comey would not have to reveal sources and methods of how he obtained them. Everyone would have them.
Disputing their authenticity would not involve sources and methods. It would just involve the purported e-mail senders saying they never sent them, back up by FBI investigation of the purported email senders' email accounts showing no such emails were sent.
The fake emails wouldn't confirm jack shit if they were shown to be fake.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)that the AG and FBI were compromised.
You don't seem to get it. The FBI would have to reveal where we got it in order to prove it was fake.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)If the emails were leaked in the public domain, why would Comey not dispute them? Why would the FBI have to reveal where they initially got them? They don't have to reveal that in order to dispute them or show that they were fake, as I explain above.
It is you who doesn't seem to get it...and that is a charitable interpretation of what you are doing in this thread.
JudyM
(29,122 posts)underthematrix
(5,811 posts)related to his investigation of Hillary Clinton's emails, his reasons for not sharing with AG Lynch the fake email produced by Russian intelligence which led to reopening the HRC email investigation, his failure to follow DOJ protocol regarding public statements about ongoing or closed FBI investigations and any information regarding his interpretation of Bill Clinton's boarding AG Lynch's plane while on the tarmac.
In other words, Comey should have similar memos covering his communications with AG Lynch/ Obama's DOJ.
Re: Bill Clinton I can imagine a lot of things but AG Lynch initiating a conversation with Bill Clinton about anything anywhere seems extremely unlikely.
I believe based on the Rosenstein internal memo that Comey is in legal jeopardy.
And let me remind you, Comey lied under oath during his May 4th testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee, which was subsequently corrected in writing by his staff. Also, the most powerful exchange that suggest Comey's legal jeopardy is not his lying but the exchange with Sen Feinstein. Go back and watch his responses to her questions.
Finally, most of us thought Rosenstein invoked a Special Counsel on May 17th but it was actually done on May 10th. Again, this leads me to believe that BOTH the Trump admin and Comey are in legal jeopardy. And this is just the beginning.
Cosmocat
(14,543 posts)nm
Mme. Defarge
(7,981 posts)understands facts. I believe Comey made acted on principle and made the best call in a situation with no good options.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)is repeating right wing talking points. Comey acted to protect his reputation and that of the FBI with the right wing, whose approval he obviously cherished more than actual justice.
ananda
(28,780 posts)There are no words to express my complete and utter disgust
with Comey and our failed justice system!
still_one
(91,937 posts)Botany
(70,281 posts)n/t
StevieM
(10,499 posts)Their party is launching an assault on our democracy.
Baitball Blogger
(46,570 posts)You, Comey.
LisaM
(27,758 posts)After eight years of dealing with the GOP, it seems to me that he must (or should) have been fully aware that they would stop at nothing to undermine and steal the election - on every level, local, state, and federal. You'd think he'd have been furious, at least in private.
Juliusseizure
(562 posts)and also kicked out a lot of Russian officials as I recall.
He could have been more outspoken, but he may have been caught by surprise, and there's no evidence it changed the election results. Also, noone could foresee a Trump victory so that may have effected his thinking. I'm not sure what else he could have done short of provoking potential war. It would have been nice to hack the holy beejesus out of Russia and cause massive turmoil.
Unfortunately Clinton was totally unprepared for the hack. Not her fault, but in France, Macron was warned in advance, so had protections in place. He was still hacked, but the info. leaked was delayed and disorganized had no effect.
LisaM
(27,758 posts)I thought at the time Comey was an interfering SOB. She rebounded from that, but like clockwork, there's Comey the week before the election, killing her numbers again.
Yes, I'm bitter about it. I feel as if no one had her back.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)Comey was more worried about what the right wing thought of him than what was right for the country. If he really put "country first" he would have had a news conference about the Russian hacking in July, not one to bash Hillary for nothing.
LisaM
(27,758 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(48,773 posts)Damage is done (again, sigh).
Right Wing types will read only the title.
Unfortunately, some DU members will read only the title as well. Sigh, again.
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)Catherine Vincent
(34,485 posts)GusBob
(7,286 posts)Try reading Josh Marshalls take on this at TPM, its very very confusing
hamsterjill
(15,214 posts)I still don't understand the link between having fake info (and knowing it was fake) and still throwing Hillary under the bus.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)Nothing justifies his bashing Hillary in that July press conference. Nothing. Least of all this bullshit about he was driven to do it because of fake Russian emails that he allegedly feared would make people lose their minds.
StevieM
(10,499 posts)The FBI had no legitimate place in the email nonsense to begin with. Comey completely destroyed HRC's reputation over the course of more than a year.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)StevieM
(10,499 posts)to be used as a sign that Comey is a straight-shooter who takes on both sides.
What does it matter to James Comey if Trump is brought down? The GOP reclaimed the White House, Hillary was humiliated and Neil Gorsuch is on the Supreme Court.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)They used him to dupe the rubes into letting Republicans into the White House. But now it rapidly becoming evident even to the rubes that Trump is nothing but a grifting, incompetent Russophile. The sooner they get rid of the Trump stink the better for the Republican Party.
Bengus81
(6,907 posts)Did he think the Russians wanted Clinton elected?? Get REAL. This is freakin serious shit IMO.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)He piled on, along with the Russians, to destroy Hillary with his July press conference and October 28 letter.
And now the string of pathetic excuses and excuses for the excuses. Give it up Jimbo.
frogmarch
(12,144 posts)are saying that Comey and FBI officials knew it was fake?
Juliusseizure
(562 posts)Why would Comey have had to reveal intelligence sources? Why couldn't he just say that info. is unreliable and that's that.
Lynch didn't ask the FBI to end it. If she did, call her out if needed, and if it implicates BC and effects the election, so be it. Then we can blame Bill and Lynch. BUT Trump and his goons had plenty of conversations with Comey. He didn't reveal those. So why would he have to reveal Bill's talking to Lynch, or anyone talking to him?
I'd much prefer straightforward transparency and knowing everyone is sticking to their roles, rather than suspecting the FBI head is trying to rewrite a wrong as he sees fit.
Its not his role to base his actions on speculative political fallout, and has unintended consequences, like loss of credibility and appearance of bias. He can't accurately gage reaction anyway. Just state the facts or seek advice from Mueller or a mentor as needed.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)It wasn't Comey that revealed Bill talking to lynch, it was the news media.....Bill was seen.
What Comey feared was that since Bill Clinton stupidly compromised AG Lynch on the tarmac, the Russians would then leak their fake emails which would appear to confirm that Lynch was compromised, which would then force Comey to reveal publicly that he had fake emails from the Russians, which would then expose the methods by which the US government obtained the Russian info.
In a political environment like an intense election.....a Hillary supporter on the intelligence committee could have leaked that Comey had faked emails in his possession, without identifying the Russians, but the Russians would then know. Comey didn't want to take a chance that it could come out.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)Why would Comey have to "expose the methods by which the US government obtained the Russian info"?
There is an obvious hole in this ludicrous rationalization for Comey's outrageous July 2016 press conference. If Russians did leak these fake emails, the purported senders of the fake emails (Debbie Wasserman Schultz and a political operative) could easily and convincingly state they're fake. And if Comey was so worried about people not believing Schultz and the operative, Comey could confirm the emails were fake by stating the purported sender's email accounts were analyzed by the FBI and the FBI thus confirmed the emails were indeed fake. He does not even have to reveal that the fake emails were from the Russians. This in no way exposes "the methods by which the US government obtained the Russian info."
This "protecting methods from exposure" excuse offered by an unnamed "source close to Comey" is bullshit and the source knew it. That is why this source(s) then added, "There were other factors behind Comey's decision." And that is why, as explicitly stated at the OP link, CNN had to update its story on this to add the line, "UPDATE AND CLARIFICATION: This story has been updated to reflect that there were additional factors behind Comey's decision and to clarify the description of the political operative."
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)step two - The Russians then leak the fake email stating that Lynch would not let the investigation go too far.
The only way to refute it would be for the FBI to come out and say that they hacked into Russian sources and know that the email was faked.
Mere denials from Lynch or Comey or especially DWS would not have been enough.
Sorry, Sunseeker but that would expose "the methods"
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)If the denials from Lynch and DWS were not enough, then the FBI shows it did an analysis of the email accounts that those emails were purportedly sent from and show that they were never sent by those accounts, that they were fake emails.
Sorry, virtualobserver, but that would NOT expose "methods."
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)proving that an email WASN'T sent ..... even harder.
The FBI had the actual email records, so they could analyze for any flaws in the fake, but the proof, is where they found the fake email.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)They just have to prove the email did not come from the sender it purports to come from. That is NOT hard. Not for the FBI anyway.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)If there was no trail, there was no email. The FBI has computer forensics experts who can do this sort of analysis.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)Last edited Sat May 27, 2017, 01:52 AM - Edit history (1)
The Comey source knew that. Hence the calling back CNN and saying Comey had other (unspecified) reasons as well.
You really are trying too hard.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)there is no permanent record of emails that cannot be eliminated in the digital realm
sorry....not finding an email is not proof that it did not exist.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)Even if erased, there will be a trail of that an email on the time and date it was sent/received.
First, these are not old or archived emails. They were puported to have been recent, as they were commenting on recent events. The server would still have them in the sender's in box, not archives, along with all other emails sent around that time. But even once it archives, you would have to destroy the server to destroy the trail. The DNC did not destroy its server.
I hope you don't think you erasing your work emails means your boss can't see them. Bad mistake.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)I'm not talking about erasure by the end user.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)Look, the people who aren't going to believe the FBI forensics experts that the emails were fake are the far right and they are a lost cause regardless. Those anti-government CT nuts won't believe ANYTHING the FBI says. An FBI director should not base his actions on what will assuage these nuts. He sure as hell shouldn't violate FBI rules and go on a ridiculous personal attack rant at a press conference.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)to cover for Bill's blunder on the tarmac, when they already have evidence from hacking the Russians. What a waste of FBI resources.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)from Trump....perhaps more than we know.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)Not only did he bash Hillary in that outrageous press conference but then he decapitated her with the October 28 letter:
And his excuse for putting out that letter against FBI rules is that it was a matter of "great public interest." Yet he did not do the same with the FBI investigation into the Trump campaign's collusion with Russia to subvert our democracy. He thought it was perfectly ok to "conceal" that from the American people until AFTER the election.
Oh, and some protection he gave us from the Russian hacking of the DNC! Instead of personally and immediately notifying DNC leadership considering the seriousness of the situation, he had some random FBI flunky place a phone call, a fucking phone call, to some random DNC tech guy. The tech guy at first thought he was being punked. I mean, the FBI is just three doors down from the DNC in DC, why was no one from the FBI instructed to walk their ass the three blocks to the DNC, considering the sensitivity and seriousness of the situation? Sally Yates went to the White House to warn them about Flynn. Why couldn't Comey go to the DNC to warn them they were being hacked by fucking Russians?
Comey failed our democracy. He failed our country. He should be more than "mildly nauseated" by that.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)that the FBI has not been compromised.
Huma Abedin and Anthony Weiner figure out a way to get Hillary's email's back into the FBI's hands days before the election, forcing Comey to notify Congress (as he had promised them he would) That require that both of them do something wrong....she had to get the emails to his laptop, then he had to find an underage girl to begin sexting with.
And it is the FBI's fault for the DNC not believing them when they call. So....not only were they hacked....when the FBI calls to inform them that they were hacked, they don't believe them....hell, they think that it is a prank.
Fuck up after fuck up after fuck up.
To paraphrase a metaphorical saying about Politics from my old friend Molly Ivins, which involves the male anatomy.
You can trip over your dick, you can step on your dick, but you can't stand there and stomp on it.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)No one made Comey do that outrageous press conference. No one made Comey send out that October 28 letter. Both acts violated FBI rules and policies.
It was Comey's fuck up after fuck up, and Comey's alone. But you continue to defend him and blame the Clintons, while ignoring and/or mistating the facts. It really is pathetic to see on this board.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Campaigns who make big tactical errors in the closing weeks pay a price.
The sad thing is that it wasn't Hillary who screwed up. It was Bill and Huma and Anthony.
StevieM
(10,499 posts)deal with Comey's stunning interference in the race.
HRC wasn't dealing with self-inflicted damage, or asking Comey to fix it. She was dealing with damage that Comey inflicted on her candidacy with his illegitimate actions.
Historians will study what Comey did for hundreds of years. It was an assault on liberal democracy.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)There will always be suspicion when the investigated party is of the same party as the President.
Like right now, for instance.
Both President Obama and AG Lynch were incredibly careful.
Comey was clearly right on the verge of announcing the end of the investigation.
Then Bill Clinton has to barge in on AG Lynch......it wasn't just that it was incredibly inappropriate,
It put Comey in the position of looking as if Bill had influenced the AG and the FBI investigation
if he just walked out and said we are not recommending charges, thank you very much. good night.
OR if he had just informed the AG, and she announced it.
Bill Clinton's actions put a cloud over the FBI. Comey had no choice. Bill's behavior was ridiculous and politically stupid.
StevieM
(10,499 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)Those rules include not discussing investigations and not making comments about people who were not prosecuted. He broke both of those rules with his July press conference and October 28 letter. Neither Hillary, nor Bill nor Huma nor Anthony made him violate those FBI rules. Comey screwed up all by himself.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)the actions that he took were the only way to do that in the wake of Bill Clinton's irresponsible actions.
If Bill didn't step on that tarmac....and Anthony wasn't sexting. Hillary would be President.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)His ultimate job is to uphold the US Constitution. That is what he pledged when he took office. And FBI rules and policies are geared toward that goal. Yet he ignored them when he did that press conference and October 28 letter. And it is these two Comey actions that hurt the FBI's reputation, not anything the Clintons did.
You are just dead wrong and you keep repeating the same nonsense right wing talking points.
Your factually incorrect posts are a broken record of right wing propaganda.
And it is boring.
I will leave you to your irrational Clinton hate.
Good bye.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)your defense , which consists of totally ignoring that Bill and Anthony set these things in motion, is the thing that is boring.
Everything is framed in a neat "we are victims" package. I don't believe in a Democratic Party that is at the mercy of how others react to our huge and totally avoidable fuck-ups.
Everything that brought down Hillary was not only completely avoidable, it was amateur hour.
For the DNC to perceive a call from the FBI as a prank is just icing on a very embarrassing cake.
That is one of the many reasons that I love President Obama.....he and his team were competent at the deepest level possible, and they proved it in this circumstance as well. He also didn't make excuses for himself or his team.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)So Comey is bummed that his earlier excuses for bashing Hillary in July of 2016 and then improperly releasing his October 28, 2016 letter have not redeemed him in any way, in fact they have made him look worse. But instead of trying to climb out of his hole with an apology, he keeps digging.
This time, he has some friends (cough, cough, "sources" tell CNN that he had to do that July press conference because of the Russians. Yes, that's the ticket.
As I understand the OP, Comey was aware of some fake emails the Russians created out of whole cloth purporting to be between Debbie Wasserman Schultz and a Dem political operative stating that Lynch would make the FBI investigation of Clinton go away. The source then claims Comey feared that "if the Russians released the information publicly, there would be no way for law enforcement and intelligence officials to discredit it without burning intelligence sources and methods." Not only does in no way justify his gratuitous Hillary bashing at that July press conference, but it is total bullshit.
There is an obvious hole in this ludicrous rationalization. If Russians did leak these fake emails, the purported senders of the fake emails (Debbie Wasserman Schultz and a political operative) could easily and convincingly state they're fake. And if Comey was so worried about people not believing Schultz and the operative, Comey could confirm the emails were fake by stating the purported sender's email accounts were analyzed by the FBI and the FBI thus confirmed the emails were indeed fake. He does not even have to reveal that the fake emails were from the Russians. This in no way exposes "the methods by which the US government obtained the Russian info." This "protecting methods from exposure" excuse offered by an unnamed "source close to Comey" is bullshit and the source knew it. That is why this source(s) then added, "There were other factors behind Comey's decision." And that is why, as explicitly stated at the OP link, CNN had to update its story on this to add the line, "UPDATE AND CLARIFICATION: This story has been updated to reflect that there were additional factors behind Comey's decision and to clarify the description of the political operative."
If you don't get it, it is because you are employing critical thinking.
Juliusseizure
(562 posts)This is a manufactured uber technical excuse that makes no sense - how many times during his testimony did he say he could not reveal matters subject to investigation.
Here's a scenario- Russian fake mails falsely implicate Lynch. When asked, Comey simply says the emails are fake. Press asks "how do you know"? Comey says "I can't reveal confidential sources.
How many times did he cite confidentiality in his March testimony, the hearing he finally revealed - 9 months after a criminal investigation had been started, that a criminal investigation has started.
I strongly suspect his nervousness has EVERYTHING to do with trying to hide the fact that investigation was in progress- to get Trump elected. There is no other logical conclusion for Comey's "bizarre" behavior. No, he's not a nutjob nor bizarre. He wanted a Republican elected he knew had been helped by and enthusiastically invited Russian hacking - and we may learn he knew a LOT more.
This rationale does not help explain his reopening the Clinton investigation 11 days before the election- his reasoning for that was also complete bullshit. In fact, he lied about "hundreds and thousands of new confidential" emails found on Weiner's laptop. It was significantly less, not marked confidential, and was sent to her assistant- not some foreign government.
Here's an excerpt of an article about Harry Reid alleging Comey's violation of the Hatch Act.
----
The Hatch Act prohibits FBI officials from using their official authority to influence an election. Reid said that by releasing this information, which he says is not conclusive or pertinent, Comey may have broken the law.
Reid accused Comey of having intent to aid one political party over the other in the election and called his behavior a "double standard" due to the fact that, as Reid claimed in the letter, Comey has information related to Donald Trump's dealings with Russia.
"I wrote to you months ago calling for this information to be released to the public," Reid writes. "And yet, you continue to resist calls to inform the public of this critical information."
"By contrast, as soon as you came into possession of the slightest innuendo related to Secretary Clinton, you rushed to publicize it in the most negative light possible."
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)They were all copies of emails the FBI already had viewed. They could have figured that out within a few days. Instead, they sat on that laptop for weeks, waiting until THE worst time for Hillary before the election, then released that cryptic letter before they even knew what they had. Hell yes Comey violated the Hatch Act.
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)He makes me seriously nauseated.