General election: May falters during challenge over record on public services

[ucrdem]

Source: The Guardian

Friday 2 June 2017 18.48 EDT

Theresa May came under sustained pressure over the Conservative party’s record on public sector pay, mental health services and social care in a combative election edition of BBC1’s Question Time broadcast less than a week before polling day.

The prime minister faced a string of awkward questions from members of the public, including a challenge from a nurse, Victoria Davey, who left May faltering after confronting her over the 1% pay increase received by NHS staff.

(snip)

One woman from the audience became emotional as she described emerging from a fitness-for-work test in tears after being asked about her suicide attempts. “I’m not going to make any excuses for the experience you’ve had,” said the prime minister.

Under pressure after refusing to turn up for a TV debate earlier in the week, May was animated at first and rejected an accusation that she had performed a U-turn by calling a snap general election. “No it’s not, sir … I had the balls to call an election,” she said.

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/02/general-election-may-falters-during-challenge-over-record-on-public-services

---

...............
"I had the balls to call an election,” she said.

Good thing she's not a biology teacher.

[GBizzle]

1. May is going to lose this election

And she will have no one to blame but herself.

As the saying goes, "June will be the end of May".

[deurbano]

2. "Good thing she's not a biology teacher."

Lol!

[hrmjustin]

3. I still think the Tories will win but I know think they actually lose seats and their

majority is not that big to begin with. May is doing everything she can to lose.

I never thought Corbyn could win but if May has another bad week it may be possible.

[rpannier]

4. I'm beginning to think there will be no majority party

It will be a minority coalition
If that happens, she is toast. Even if the Tories make the coalition, she will get sacked by the party for her ineptitude

[hrmjustin]

6. I think there could be a Labour, SNP, LibDem, and Green coalition.

It would make history.

But it depends if younger voters show up big and in the marginal seats.

The Tories may need to ask the Ulster parties for help.

[muriel_volestrangler]

30. Corbyn has said he wouldn't try to form a coalition

If Labour were the largest party, he'd just put forward a programme and leave it up to the SNP etc. to support it, let the Tories in, or force another election.

Which I think is a mistake; there's very little chance of Labour being the largest party. More likely is Labour and the SNP being larger than the Tories, but the Tories being larger than Labour on its own. But in that situation, he'd have to have some formal offer of support from the SNP for him to be invited to form a government rather than the Tories. The SNP are making noises they could think about something like that: http://news.sky.com/story/nicola-sturgeon-signals-snp-would-support-labour-government-10902237
. Maybe the Labour thinking is "we'd let the Tories have the first chance of forming a government, but they wouldn't get enough support from the small parties (basically the Northern Ireland Unionists), and then we'd get the opportunity, and the SNP/others would let us form a government without any formal agreement". Which seems risky to me.

The Tories do like to to scare people with the idea of the SNP having influence. I think the only people that actually 'scares' are people who'd only vote Tory or UKIP anyway. Perhaps it encourages their base to bother to vote.

[Denzil_DC]

38. It's sort of in "rainbow coalition" territory:

the prospect the Lib Dems chickened out of when they went into their disastrous coalition with the Tories in 2010. Messy, unstable, and possibly a fair reflection of where the country is at the moment.

I've also seen the idea floated that Labour think they could form a minority administration and basically dare the other broadly sympathetic parties not to back them on key votes. There's that messy instability again.

The idea of a confidence and supply arrangement with the SNP is the closest I could see Labour being offered by them. But Corbyn has said "no deals", so we'll have to wait and see whether it's an issue that even needs to be addressed. There were certainly anecdotal reports of the prospect of SNP holding the balance of power in a hung parliament being a significant factor in some seats in the 2015 general election.

I can't see any way a formal coalition would be contemplated. It would lead to a massive backlash against the SNP from the usual suspects; Labour (and Corbyn) have generally been very antagonistic towards them and I don't see that changing despite (or perhaps because of) the good deal of common ground between the SNP and the more leftist wing of Labour, and we've seen what happens to the smaller party in coalition in recent memory. Not an experience sane politicians would want to risk repeating.

[nycbos]

5. Imagine how Labour might fair if they didn't have a terrorist sympathizer as a leader.

[killbotfactory]

7. The Tories thank you for your service. nt

[nycbos]

8. I would vote Tory in this election if I was a UK citizen.

Last edited Fri Jun 2, 2017, 10:04 PM - Edit history (1)

He has called Hamas and Hezbollah agents of “long-term peace and social justice and political justice in the whole region,” and once invited to Parliament a Palestinian Islamist, Raed Salah, who has suggested Jews were absent from the World Trade Center on 9/11. Corbyn called him an “honored citizen.


Anyone who honors a man that said "Jews were absent from the WTC" is an antisemite. The far left in particular in Europe has embraced antisemitism


https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/08/opinion/an-anti-semitism-of-the-left.html?_r=1


There is also this Corbyn once described it as his “honour and pleasure” to host “our friends” from Hamas and Hezbollah in parliament.

Yet negotiation is not on Hamas’s agenda, as Corbyn ought to know. In its charter Hamas states: “Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement… There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through jihad.”

It isn’t a peaceful negotiated solution that Hamas wants; it’s the destruction of the Jews. Here is a direct quote from Hamas’s charter: “The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: ‘The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!’”

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/13/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-foreign-policy-antisemitism

[killbotfactory]

10. He supports peace. Kill him!

“The language I used at that meeting was actually here in parliament and it was about encouraging the meeting to go ahead, encouraging there to be a discussion about the peace process,” he said.

Asked whether he still regarded Hamas and Hezbollah as “friends”, the Labour leader said: “No. It was inclusive language I used which with hindsight I would rather not have used. I regret using those words, of course.”

His comments came during the committee hearing into antisemitism within the party. Allegations of prejudice against Jewish people by Ken Livingstone, an MP and several ordinary members have been raised over the past eight months.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/jeremy-corbyn-says-he-regrets-calling-hamas-and-hezbollah-friends

[nycbos]

11. He regrets it because it has caused him political problems.

[Denzil_DC]

13. Only with people like you who choose to parrot it.

And if you'd vote Tory, what the hell are you doing on DU?

By the way, you just cited a neocon up there. So presumably you're at least a neocon sympathizer, if not an actual neocon.

[nycbos]

18. I am here because I have been involved in Democratic politics since I was 13.

I volunteered for Bill Bradley when he ran for President.

I absolutely would voted have voted Labour when Miliband was leader.


For the record he is also pro-Russia. He regularly appears on RT.

We can't excuse it just because he is a lefty given what happened here.

[Denzil_DC]

20. But you'll excuse the Tory Party to the extent you'd vote for them.

That means you'd vote in favour of a vast number of retrograde rightwing policies, including selling off the NHS to the highest bidder, degrading workers' rights, penalizing the most vulnerable in society to feather fat cats' nests, and pandering to the most unpleasant aspects of human nature in search of scapegoats to blame for the government's own failings. Some Democrat!

You may have been involved in Democratic politics, but your grasp of UK politics is parlous, and you've bought into some of the most frequently debunked propaganda propagated by the Tories and Corbyn's opponents and are peddling it here.

Your grasp of the UK context is tenuous at best, but for instance, the James Bloodworth article you linked above (which is an old chestnut often trotted out to support agendas like yours) was published in the heat of the Labour leadership battle, when all sorts of anti-Corbyn slurs were being floated (Bloodworth has been in favour of armed intervention as a first resort in various conflicts, so presumably, by your standards, you're a fellow traveller of his). Nevertheless, take a look at Bloodworth's Twitter feed now, and you'll see that he's changed his tune on Corbyn and Labour, and is praying for a Labour win.

[nycbos]

23. A have a firm grasp of U.K. politics.

I also believe that with people like Donald Trump in office western democracy is at stake.

The Russians are looking to end the western alliance.

If a Putin leftists admirer gets control of the aUK that will happen.

The far left and the far right have a lot in common. Love of Putin is one of them.

[Denzil_DC]

25. And by voting Tory, you'd be feeding the UK into the hands of Trump and his slavering predatory ilk.

But you find that preferable. Wow.

Already May is squaring up to privatize swathes of the NHS if she wins a majority. And that's just one example.

Forgive me if, on all the evidence, I doubt your "firm grasp".

[nycbos]

26. May is pro-NATO and pro Russian sanctions.

Not Trump like at all.



And in terms of the NHS the U.K. Is behind some countries in Western Europe

http://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf

France is number one. Their healthcare delivery system has both public and private elements.

[Denzil_DC]

27. May will be Trump's poodle.

She refused to sign up to the condemnation of his intention to withdraw from the Paris Accord, and that's just the most recent example. She and her millionaire cabinet are desperate for a trade deal from Trump to shore up their hard Brexit plans, and that includes allowing US healthcare organizations to take over vast swathes of it for profit. You sure you're on the right board?

The shortcomings of the NHS stem from long-term bad organization due to over-managerialization and lack of investment. If the Tories thought they could get away with abolishing it wholesale, they would. Instead, they've starved it of funds to the point that outside Scotland (which runs its own NHS), it barely functions, ripening it for predators.

But you're in favour of privatization of the NHS. Like I said, you're a Tory. Plain to see. End of discussion.

[nycbos]

28. If they had a different leader I'd agree.

But this guy supports terrorism and is pro-Putin.

We can't be anti Putin here and support him aboard.

[muriel_volestrangler]

29. No, you have no clue at all about UK politics if you're a Democrat but would vote Tory

That just shows an awful level of ignorance.

May held back from criticising Trump over withdrawing from the Paris agreement. May is being as nice as she can be to Trump because she thinks she can get some sort of trade deal out of him. She is quite willing to join him in whatever bullshit he spouts.

Meanwhile, the Tories are busy assuring their rich supporters they'll decrease their taxes. Because they are the party bankrolled and controlled by the very rich, just like the Republicans

If you are a Democrat, then when you find out about British politics, even if you still feel Corbyn is unacceptable (and no, he doesn't support terrorism, and no, he's not pro-Putin), then you'd vote for a Lib Dem, or a Green, or SNP or Plaid Cymru in Scotland and Wales. Or you wouldn't vote.

You can't be anti Trump here and support him abroad.

[Denzil_DC]

37. Here's how that sort of nonsense plays out on some doorsteps in the UK (NSFW):

Link to tweet

tom @tomosgjames

So some Conservative came to visit my mum while I was FaceTiming her. You're gonna wanna watch this. @jeremycorbyn

[killbotfactory]

14. "you have to bring about a peace process by talking to people you don't agree with"

36 minutes 37 seconds

What a fucking monster.

[nycbos]

17. Defended a Church of England bishop who said Israel was responsible for 9/11

Hamas's charter calls for the killing of a ll Jews.


To make peace you need to find people who want it. Hamas doesn't

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/13/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-foreign-policy-antisemitism

[killbotfactory]

31. He was polite to bad people! Kill him! nt

[ucrdem]

32. The Guardian endorsed Corbyn yesterday

and not reluctantly:
................
Friday 2 June 2017 13.02 EDT
The Guardian view on the election: it’s Labour

Jeremy Corbyn has shown that the party might be the start of something big rather than the last gasp of something small

"We should disregard the propaganda masquerading as news from the acolyte press: as Mrs May’s credibility on the campaign has withered, Mr Corbyn’s has grown. "

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/ng-interactive/2017/jun/02/the-guardian-view-on-our-vote-its-labour
................

The endorsement doesn't mention anti-Semitism directly but it has a link to an article about Corbyn's Hamas-Hezbollah comments where he apologizes for calling them friends and clarifies his position on anti-Semitism:

"Corbyn told the committee he was alarmed at reports of antisemitic comments made by Labour members since his election as leader in 2015. He said that appropriate action had been taken by the party’s compliance unit and fewer than 20 activists had been suspended while their cases were investigated."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/jeremy-corbyn-says-he-regrets-calling-hamas-and-hezbollah-friends

[ucrdem]

16. "Corbyn is no anti-Semite."

Last edited Sat Jun 3, 2017, 01:33 AM - Edit history (1)

That's from your first link, an April 2016 NY Times op-ed. I remember when this became an issue last year, but Corbyn has addressed it, and it doesn't seem to be factoring into this year's campaign.
.............

ETA: Corbyn is asked about Livingstone around 14:30 in the Question Time video posted in #14 above and Corbyn answers that he objects to racism of all types, including anti-Semitism, and that Livingstone has been suspended from the party by a committee that is independent of his control. The questioner asks why he wasn't expelled and Corbyn says the case is still under review and he might be.

[nycbos]

19. That is that author's opinion.

My opinion is if you defend a man who claims "the Jews were absent from the WTC" you are an anti-semite."

[Denzil_DC]

21. And my opinion, based on your own words, is that you're a Tory. n/t

[nycbos]

22. Ok

If by Tory you mean opposing terrorism and being anti Putin.

[Denzil_DC]

24. Nope.

By "Tory", I mean saying you'd vote Tory on a Democratic board. That seems pretty simple to grasp.

Declaring you wouldn't vote for the Labour Party led by Corbyn is one thing. Saying you'd vote for the Conservatives is quite a different matter.

[bucolic_frolic]

9. She sounds like an old battle-axe

"balls" would not play over here, can't say what the Brits will think. They do,
after all, have quite an irreverent use of expressions. "Balls" for example,
can often be called "bollocks"

Unempathetic lady too, ain't she?

Trying to sound like Margaret Thatcher?

She's all "bolloxed" up

[politicat]

12. I don't believe May. I think she was told to call the election, or it would be called for her.

There were several meetings with HRM in the days leading up to the surprise call. The press reports of those meetings were vague, even for HRM-PM meetings. Buckingham Palace hasn't issued an official statement on Brexit, but all indications are that HRM thinks it's a terrible idea and never should have been put to a public vote, and never acted upon.

The strongest power the British monarch retains is one they almost never use, and haven't even publicly threatened to use in about a century. That's the power to dismiss Parliament and call for new elections. If it were used frivolously, it would and should be the end of the Monarchy, but both Elizabeth and her father viewed the monarch's power over Parliament as a set of brakes or an airbag against a popular but short-sighted, devastating public movement. Which describes Brexit very nicely.

May's call for snap elections skipped a couple of steps in the process -- there were no "no confidence" votes first, and a week before she called the snap election, she said she had no intention of doing so.

I have no evidence, but I think something went down behind the scenes and May got handed an ultimatum and her ass in the steeliest, politest language.

[ucrdem]

15. Protest Song Slamming Theresa May Tops Charts Ahead Of U.K. Election

Well, according to NPR anyway, in a story this afternoon:

Captain SKA - Liar Liar GE2017

http://www.npr.org/2017/06/02/531269046/protest-song-slamming-theresa-may-tops-charts-ahead-of-u-k-election

[ucrdem]

33. YouGov.uk has London at 50% Labour as of May 31:

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/06/01/voting-intention-london-conservatives-33-labour-50/

[Sunlei]

34. Prime Minister May is VERY BRAVE to face "questions from members of the public". Not many American p

Not many Americans running in elections do that.

Sounds like those were real members of the public and very hard questions for anyone to answer in a "short format" BBC question time.

[ucrdem]

35. She makes a strong start and backs Brexit bravely

but she starts to fall apart when the questions get down to brass tacks, like why she called the election in the first place after saying she wouldn't. Where she really goes off the rails is when the audience starts asking why she backs Brexit now after opposing it before the referendum. The BBC host help out by drilling down but they know a little too much LOL. Here's the whole shootin' match:

The host says at the start that the audience is 1/3 conservative, 1/3 labour, and 1/3 other or undecided. The questions are pre-screened but the follow-ups aren't. Corbyn faced the same bunch afterward.

p.s. apparently May has so far avoided debating Corbyn directly and that has become another point in his favor.

[Sunlei]

36. Thank you

Here's link to Jeremy Corbyn part