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Sun Jul 30, 2017, 10:34 AM

Conway: Trump to decide 'this week' whether to let Obamacare implode

Source: POLITICO

President Donald Trump will decide "this week" whether to let Obamacare implode, White House counselor Kellyanne Conway said Sunday.

After the Senate failed to repeal Obamacare last week, the president said he would let law fall apart by ending cost sharing reduction payments, which lower out-of-pocket costs for lower-income people.

On Sunday, Conway said Trump is set to decide whether to actually end the payments.

“He’s going to make that decision this week, and that’s a decision that only he can make,” Conway said on “Fox News Sunday.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/30/conway-trump-obamacare-implode-241136



It's a tough decision: Throw millions off their insurance and destabilize the market or continue his get even with Obama strategy. Dear God, spare us from this little man we pray.

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Arrow 53 replies Author Time Post
Reply Conway: Trump to decide 'this week' whether to let Obamacare implode (Original post)
mobeau69 Jul 2017 OP
RKP5637 Jul 2017 #1
Hortensis Jul 2017 #45
dalton99a Jul 2017 #2
All-In Jul 2017 #46
Sunlei Jul 2017 #3
usaf-vet Jul 2017 #4
alwaysinflux Jul 2017 #5
oberliner Jul 2017 #8
alwaysinflux Jul 2017 #17
oberliner Jul 2017 #19
mobeau69 Jul 2017 #14
oberliner Jul 2017 #16
mobeau69 Jul 2017 #23
liberal from boston Jul 2017 #26
thesquanderer Jul 2017 #22
mobeau69 Jul 2017 #24
Plucketeer Jul 2017 #6
thesquanderer Jul 2017 #7
oberliner Jul 2017 #11
thesquanderer Jul 2017 #20
certainot Jul 2017 #9
still_one Jul 2017 #10
oberliner Jul 2017 #12
still_one Jul 2017 #25
Trumpdumper Jul 2017 #40
still_one Jul 2017 #41
Solly Mack Jul 2017 #13
Raine1967 Jul 2017 #30
Solly Mack Jul 2017 #34
heaven05 Jul 2017 #15
Tracer Jul 2017 #18
doc03 Jul 2017 #27
Qutzupalotl Jul 2017 #44
left-of-center2012 Jul 2017 #21
keithbvadu2 Jul 2017 #28
Rural_Progressive Jul 2017 #43
keithbvadu2 Jul 2017 #49
Cracklin Charlie Jul 2017 #29
Blue Idaho Jul 2017 #31
ucrdem Jul 2017 #32
stopbush Jul 2017 #33
workinclasszero Jul 2017 #35
Nitram Jul 2017 #36
FakeNoose Jul 2017 #48
Nitram Jul 2017 #53
briv1016 Jul 2017 #37
workinclasszero Jul 2017 #38
George II Jul 2017 #39
mobeau69 Jul 2017 #42
C_U_L8R Jul 2017 #51
Kingofalldems Jul 2017 #47
secondwind Jul 2017 #50
RobinA Jul 2017 #52

Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 10:38 AM

1. If it hurts people, he'll be for it. The guy is a sociopathic sadist. n/t

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #1)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 05:08 PM

45. Lol. ACA has impressed (or dismayed) everyone with its strength.

It's not "imploding" at all. It's as if it were the World Trade Center towers damaged but still standing, thousands still working in their offices, after the Republicans have spent 7 years flying every plane, federal and state, into it that they could hijack and turn on it.

In fact, the very title of Politico's article qualifies as fake news. They know millions won't read past the header.

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 10:40 AM

2. Nice to know the arsonist club is continuing its serious debate about gasoline grades

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #2)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 05:14 PM

46. And Watching Poor People Die When They Get Sick

 

Sounds so appealing!

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 10:45 AM

3. 4 Insurance Corps laugh at Mr. Trump. All their plans ARE on TV & internet- Make them LIST PLANS on

exchange if they want subsidies!

list plans on healthcare.gov OR NO SUBSIDIES.

Allow plans to include more Doctors, cross state lines for increased competition. and prices will lower!

Get rid of the drug corporation PRICE GOUGING!

Get rid of the Republicans who stab YOU in the back Mr. Trump. Republican party doesn't want YOU to deal with drug corporations or insurance corps.
Price gouging is a pejorative term referring to when a seller spikes the prices of goods, services or commodities to a level much higher than is considered reasonable or fair, and is considered exploitative, potentially to an unethical extent.

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 10:45 AM

4. So he is contemplating premeditated manslaughter at a minimum?

When he should be saying the country has spoken so lets do the best we can to fix what is wrong and make a healthcare system the country can be proud off. But he won't.

There is sickness in this country and it starts in the oval office and is extremely contagious. You might say it's the new plague transmitted by the same vector..... rats.

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 10:47 AM

5. Why does he have the power

To make this decision? Isn't this something congress would have to vote to approve?

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Response to alwaysinflux (Reply #5)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 10:54 AM

8. The subsidy payments under Obamacare were ruled unconstitutional

 

The Obama administration lawyers appealed that ruling - thus allowing the subsidy payments to continue while the appeal is pending.

Trump could defend the subsidies by dropping that appeal and allowing the court ruling to stand.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #8)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 11:08 AM

17. I'm going to have to read up on that

I didn't pay any attention to politics until Trump, so I completely missed all the ACA news. Had no idea about this. Thank you!

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Response to alwaysinflux (Reply #17)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 11:09 AM

19. Here's a WaPo article from 2016

 

Judge strikes down Obama health law insurance subsidy in victory for House GOP

A federal judge struck down a portion of President Obama’s signature Affordable Care Act health law Thursday, ruling that Obama exceeded his authority in unilaterally funding a provision that sent billions of dollars in subsidies to health insurers.

In a 38-page decision, U.S. District Judge Rosemary Collyer of the District put her ruling on hold pending the administration’s certain appeal. Her decision sided with the U.S. House of Representatives, which brought the lawsuit challenging more than $175 billion of spending after a party-line vote by House Republicans in July 2014.

The House GOP argued that the administration’s decision to subsidize deductibles, co-pays and other “cost-sharing” measures was unconstitutional because Congress rejected an administration request for funding in 2014. Obama officials said they withdrew the request and spent the money, arguing that the subsidies were covered by an earlier, permanent appropriation.

House Republicans have tried repeatedly, without much success, to repeal parts or all of the health-care law, holding dozens of votes on the matter over the past five years. Thursday’s ruling may represent their most significant victory in trying to dismantle the ACA. The ruling, if upheld, could undermine the stability of the program because of the added financial burden it would place on insurers, health policy experts said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/judge-strikes-down-obama-health-law-insurance-subsidy-in-victory-for-house-gop/2016/05/12/67a8af78-1863-11e6-9e16-2e5a123aac62_story.html?utm_term=.1af989a553b2

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Response to alwaysinflux (Reply #5)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 11:00 AM

14. Congress would have to go along. Not a big bar though. There are other ways to sabotage as well:

"But even if we assume Trump and the GOP don’t want to be caught inflicting harm so brazenly, there is no shortage of ways for them to stoke dysfunction until the markets are tattered and shrunken. “The biggest risk, to my mind, isn’t a discrete thing that the administration might do,” Bagley said. “It’s all the discrete things it might not do.”


https://newrepublic.com/article/144113/next-republicans-agenda-sabotaging-obamacare

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Response to mobeau69 (Reply #14)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 11:05 AM

16. No they wouldn't

 

Trump can end the subsidies without any help (or input) from Congress.

A federal judge has already ruled they are unconstitutional - all Trump would have to do is drop the appeal.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #16)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 11:23 AM

23. Couldn't Congress force him to by law?

A new law is the key here isn't it? A lot of people better be paying attention. They are about to get F'd.

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Response to alwaysinflux (Reply #5)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 11:22 AM

22. Court ruled that(like forced Medicaid expansion)this part of ACA was unconstitutional as implemented

It hasn't reached the supreme court, and it is under appeal.

In general, the executive branch has broad powers to basically do whatever it wants, as long as what it want is (a) not unconstitutional and (b) not contrary to any law passed by congress. (That's why Executive Orders are possible in the first place.) My understanding is that since there is currently no legal requirement that these payments be made, he has the power to stop them.

The possible solutions are for a higher court to overturn the lower court decision OR for congress to pass a law requiring that these payments be made. As I posted elsewhere, I think that could easily happen, if Trump pushes the issue. See https://www.democraticunderground.com/10141833543#post7 and the replies to that.

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #22)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 11:26 AM

24. Bingo. n/t

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 10:49 AM

6. Maybe I should "get religion"

 

As an atheist, my clasping hands and chanting skyward comes to naught - kinda like Bernie Sanders doing good for folks without a damn (D) next to his name. Maybe I need a (C) or an (M) or a (J) to give my praying a tone of sincerity. You know - a sorta "get out the votive" so that our maker might have pity on us! And too, I've got alot of possessions I could sell and give the proceeds to the poor. That'd surely get his (or her) attentions.

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 10:50 AM

7. If he does this, I predict Congress will reverse it with a veto-proof majority.

Obviously all the Dems would vote for a bill to restore the payments. I think enough Republicans would cross to support it as well. It hurts too many of their states. Those Republicans who voted against the repeal-and-replace because it didn't go far enough in getting rid of ACA are a lost cause. But those who voted against it because they thought it took too much away could support such a bill.

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #7)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 10:55 AM

11. They can't

 

The subsidy payments have already been ruled unconstitutional. The only reason they have continued is because the Obama administration lawyers appealed that ruling. Trump could simply have that appeal dropped and then the ruling would stand.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #11)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 11:14 AM

20. But they were ruled unconstitutional BECAUSE congress didn't appropriate the funds themselves.

It was argued as a case of the executive branch over-stepping its authority. There is nothing to prevent Congress from passing a bill that appropriates the funds.

In fact, under your scenario, if the appeal continued to the SC, and the SC ruled against it, that would be the end of the subsidy payments. But that's not automatically true... rather, it would mean, in order for payments to continue, congress would have to pass a law to authorize the payments. That's the same thing I'm suggesting they could just as well do now, if the political will exists.

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 10:54 AM

9. all this to satisfy limbaugh and a few hundred other shits

who have been allowed without complaint or protest to yell and lie that obamacare is a failure for 7 years.

the major part of the made-to-order constituency of dittoheads/teabags and racists that have enabled and intimidated r-con reps to obstruct improvements for 7 years and now to repeal it are primary and secondary targets of the talk radio psyops and dems don't even poll for.

we even let 88 universities support 257 limbaugh stations.....

bigly stupid

[img][/img]

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 10:55 AM

10. They are not going to be able to do it through a bill because the Senate can only consider one

budget reconciliation bill per topic per year, and they blew it with this last fiasco:

"I'm not sure if it's really being appreciated just how comprehensively the Republicans were just fucked over.

See, the Republicans have been trying to pass these godawful healthcare bills through a process called budget reconciliation, which, among other things, protects the bill from being filibustered in the Senate and only requires a simple majority of 50 votes (rather than 60, which the Republicans don't have).

The thing is, the Senate can only consider one budget reconciliation bill per topic per year. Of course, if the bill dies in committee and never comes to an official vote, it doesn't count- which is why they've been able to keep hammering away at the issue.

This bill, though, was allowed to come to the Senate floor, because the Republicans thought they'd secured the votes. Collins, Murkowski and the Democrats would vote no, everyone else would vote yes, and Pence would break the tie. And then McCain completely fucked them. And it was almost certainly a calculated move; he voted to allow the bill to come to the floor. Had McCain allowed it to die in committee, McConnell could have come back with yet another repeal bill; but he let it come to a vote, and now they can't consider another budget reconciliation bill for the rest of the fiscal year. The Senate needs 60 votes to pass any kind of healthcare reform now.

So now they're caught between a rock and a hard place. Either they concede defeat on the issue and try again later (causing a big, unpopular stink that could damage elections if they try it before the midterms, or risking losing the slim majority they already have if they wait) or they actually sit down with the democrats like adults and write a halfway decent healthcare bill.

This is amazing."

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9387508

Now perhaps the POS that occupies the WH may try to something without Congress, but that will go through the courts, it won't be up to trump, and if he pushes McConnell to change the filibuster rules for "bills", and McConnell abides, they McConnell will have just put the a nail in the coffin of the republican party, because this will come back to haunt him when the Democrats regain control, and they will regain control of Congress. Maybe it will be in 2018, maybe 2020, but it will happen

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Response to still_one (Reply #10)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 10:56 AM

12. This is not true

 

The Senate health care bill is still under consideration and is still on the Senate calendar. The votes thus far have been on amendments, not the actual bill.

Edit to add: It's amazing how some random person's Reddit post has been taken as some kind of authority by so many people. (Not meaning you, but I've seen this person's post cited all over the place, even though it's wrong).

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Response to oberliner (Reply #12)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 11:28 AM

25. Is it under consideration? Only one reconcilliation bill can be passed in any given year.


"To trigger the reconciliation process, Congress passes a concurrent resolution on the budget instructing one or more committees to report changes in law affecting the budget by a certain date. If the budget instructs more than one committee, then those committees send their recommendations to the Budget Committee of their House, and the Budget Committee packages the recommendations into a single omnibus bill. In the Senate, the reconciliation bill then gets only 20 hours of debate and amendments are limited. Only one reconciliation bill can be passed in any given year.

A reconciliation bill is a bill containing changes in law recommended pursuant to reconciliation instructions in a budget resolution. If the instructions pertain to only one committee in a chamber, that committee reports the reconciliation bill. If the instructions pertain to more than one committee, the House Budget Committee reports an omnibus reconciliation bill, but it may not make substantive changes in the recommendations of the other committees."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_(United_States_Congress)

All the reports I have been reading have indicated that the ACA repeal is dead for now, and the WH appears to be going bonkers over the Senate filibuster rules, so I question if the repeal is still under consideration:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/29/politics/trump-health-care-senate-votes-tweet/index.html

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Response to still_one (Reply #25)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 01:21 PM

40. Here is the key phrase: Only one reconciliation bill can be passed in any given year.


Oberliner is correct. The Senate has not passed the bill. Therefore, reconciliation can still be applied to legislation this fiscal year.

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Response to Trumpdumper (Reply #40)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 02:50 PM

41. Appreciate the reply. Still it isn't likely that as long as the Senate make up remains as it is,

they are not going to waste anymore time on reconciliation. They are either going to have to work with the Democrats to craft a bill through committee, or it will remain a on hold until the make up of the senate changes, which will not happen for a while, and there are too many republicans unwilling to work with Democrats on this, so I think they will move on

The stakes for 2018 just got higher

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 10:59 AM

13. So she admits it's Trump doing it and not the program itself failing.

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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #13)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 12:31 PM

30. Exactly!

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Response to Raine1967 (Reply #30)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 12:56 PM

34. She'll deny it but that is what her words mean.

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 11:01 AM

15. to hell with conway, trump/bannon

 

it won't be as easy as this clown makes it seem for bannon/trump to kill millions...

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 11:09 AM

18. Correct me if I'm wrong, but

isn't upholding the law one of the pResident's jobs?

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Response to Tracer (Reply #18)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 11:40 AM

27. That's what I thought he took an oath of office to faithfully execute the

laws USA. It should be an impeachable act if he doesn't.

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Response to Tracer (Reply #18)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 03:09 PM

44. Correct. Sabotage is the opposite of faithfully executing the law.

Obama tried to unilaterally extend an ACA deadline but he got blocked. This is MUCH worse; it's deliberately destroying a key funding provision out of pure spite, with no regard to the millions who will be impacted.

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 11:16 AM

21. Trump: "Screw 'em!"

"... ending cost sharing reduction payments,
which lower out-of-pocket costs for lower-income people."

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 11:41 AM

28. Republicans talk about choice. I choose the better, lower cost health insurance Trump promised...

Republicans talk about choice. I choose the better, lower cost health insurance Trump promised...

Bring it on!

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Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #28)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 03:06 PM

43. Hey I'll just take what those guys have

If it's good enough for the people who represent me, it's good enough for me. I'm not greedy, I don't want anything more than those good, hard working people who are doing the will of the people have.

Problem solved.

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Response to Rural_Progressive (Reply #43)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 09:25 PM

49. Alas! They want it for themselves but want to deny it for the rest of us.

(Republican Congressman) voted for special benefits/treatment for himself, his family and staff.

https://www.vox.com/2017/4/25/15429982/gop-exemption-ahca-amendment

Republicans exempt their own insurance from their latest House health care proposal

Republican legislators want to keep popular Obamacare provisions for themselves and their staff.

---------

This Former GOP Congressman Loathed Obamacare - Until He Lost His Own Coverage

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/david-jolly-obamacare_us_59529e05e4b02734df2de1be?section=us_politics

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 11:58 AM

29. You know what I'm gonna decide, Kelly?

I'm gonna decide whether or not you should STFU!

Ok, I'm done...you should.

Now, go cash your taxpayer provided paycheck.

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 12:34 PM

31. Trump and the GOP now owns healthcare.

From the moment the Repeal and Replace legislation made it to the House floor - they are now responsible for what ever happens to American healthcare.

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 12:46 PM

32. Apparently he does this every month

with the effect that insurers are getting out of Dodge as fast as possible and those remaining run up their premiums 20% to cover their potential losses. So he doesn't have to actually yank the subsidies, which would get his base up in arms, to achieve the lethal effect.




p.s. heard this yesterday on NPR, in an interview with somebody from Kaiser I think

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 12:47 PM

33. Insurance companies have already filed lawshuits to recover the $ they've been

promised but haven't received for two years.

Here's how it goes down: tRump cancels the payments. Insurance companies seek and are granted an injunction by a court. Court rules payments must continue. Eventually, a court rules that stopping payments was unlawful to begin with, and the feds are now on the hook for $8-B in back payments, thanks to Little Marco's Magic Act.

Rs wail and complain, insurers announce they can now open up shop in many more markets, ensuing competition lowers prices, ACA is solidified as the nation's healthcare system for at least the next 5 years.

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 01:08 PM

35. Republican terrorism at it finest

 

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 01:08 PM

36. "Yeah, I think I'll leave the entire nation in suspense while I decide what would get me the most

publicity, helping Obamacare implode or signing on to fixing Obamacare."

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Response to Nitram (Reply #36)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 05:41 PM

48. He doesn't get to "decide" because it's not up to him.

Obamacare is the law of the land. Somebody should 'splain that to him.



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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #48)

Mon Jul 31, 2017, 08:54 AM

53. I'm sure they've tried. A fool's errand.

I was just guessing what was going on in Trumps' mind, not commenting on reality.

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 01:10 PM

37. Like how he was going to decide if we were going to stay in the Paris Agreement.

He's already decided to pull the payments. He just wants another Rose Garden announcement.

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 01:12 PM

38. Lawyer up Dumpf

 

I hear if Trump doesn't hold up the feds part there will be lawsuits aplenty.

I know if my sick child or spouse was denied medical coverage because of BLOTUS holding back funds I would call every newspaper and TV station in the area to get it documented in public what a filthy POS our "pResident" is!!!

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 01:13 PM

39. They just love hanging stuff over our heads, everything is "next week", "two weeks", etc. Even....

...the potential veto of the Russia sanctions bill, which passed by a combined 517-5. I would have LOVED to see him veto that one and have it overridden by a combined 517-5!

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Response to George II (Reply #39)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 03:00 PM

42. It's his lack of any human compassion for people whose lives litterally hang in the balance that

proves he's psycho. To any normal human being there's nothing to decide here but he seems to enjoy keeping millions of Americans tied up in knots and unable to sleep nights thanks to his sick little game. In short, the gross fucker's nuts.

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Response to George II (Reply #39)

Mon Jul 31, 2017, 07:06 AM

51. It's a tired old schtick

Trump's gimmicks are transparent and have a very short shelf life. He's gotta scheme up some new material before his base catches on.

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 05:40 PM

47. And the secret Tumpies can't stop posting about it.

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Mon Jul 31, 2017, 05:08 AM

50. Why all the drama??!!? He always does this crap.

He himself doesn't know what is going to happen, because he's a lazy fucking jackass. He's waiting for his marching orders.

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Response to mobeau69 (Original post)

Mon Jul 31, 2017, 08:07 AM

52. I Hate This

"let in implode" meme. It implies passivity. The message is meant to be, "This thing is so screwed up that if we don't rescue it, it will implode." This could not be further from the truth. The legislation requires certain payments, on which the program is dependent to work. There's nothing passive about not making the payments. Not making the required payments is not LETTING anything happen, it's causing something to happen. It's like if I let my orchid die by never watering it. I'm not letting it die, I'm killing it.

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