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Fri Mar 30, 2018, 06:04 AM

 

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Reply Message auto-removed (Original post)
Name removed Mar 2018 OP
7962 Mar 2018 #1
karynnj Mar 2018 #2
7962 Mar 2018 #8
muriel_volestrangler Mar 2018 #9
7962 Mar 2018 #11
karynnj Mar 2018 #13
sandensea Mar 2018 #14
7962 Mar 2018 #18
muriel_volestrangler Mar 2018 #16
TubbersUK Mar 2018 #4
Igel Mar 2018 #6
karynnj Mar 2018 #15
appal_jack Mar 2018 #10
muriel_volestrangler Mar 2018 #3
sinkingfeeling Mar 2018 #5
Igel Mar 2018 #7
ripcord Mar 2018 #12
EX500rider Mar 2018 #17

Response to Name removed (Original post)

Fri Mar 30, 2018, 07:47 AM

1. Once again, a fail for the Palestinians. They could have peace if they really wanted it.

 

Instead they continue to support terrorist groups like Hamas. No other neighboring nation wants anything to do with them either.
Since Israel is always being told they must give up land for a new state, why isnt the same request made of Jordan? Both nations were re-created at the same time, so why is it only Israels responsibility? Because its not about land, its about Jews. And as long as thats the attitude, the Palestinians will continue to lose.

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Response to 7962 (Reply #1)

Fri Mar 30, 2018, 08:07 AM

2. Because Israel is controlling land that even they call disputed

The interational community calls that land occupied territoritories. Not to mention, you reject the idea of one state with equal rights for all living there. I assume you want Israel to get the disputed land with as few of the Palestinians who lived on it as possible.

I guess you agree with John Bolton's three state solution, where Gaza becomes part of Egypt and the West bank Palestinians, without most of their land, become part of Jordan.


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Response to karynnj (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 30, 2018, 10:15 AM

8. Bolton's idea would never work; Jordan & Egypt dont want them either.

 

But I'd suggest the West Bank, a part of Jordan, a part of Syria be added together to give them a larger territory. But neither of those countries would be willing to do that either. Only Israel is expected to give anything.

The problem is that they have been in bed with the terrorist groups from the start. Once Jordan, Egypt & Saudi Arabia agreed to stop trying to get rid of Israel, they have had a peaceful co existence for decades. These days even assisting Israel's military in some cases. Even after the violence in Egypt in recent years, they have still maintained a peace with Israel.
The Palestinians should learn from those countries. They choose not to.

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Response to 7962 (Reply #8)

Fri Mar 30, 2018, 10:48 AM

9. So your "solution" to Israel occupying the West Bank is to occupy part of Jordan and Syria too?

I can see you are keen on occupying countries. I'm going to guess, however, that the part of Syria you want the Palestinians to occupy is not the Golan Heights. Which country do you want that to belong to?

Israel is expected to stop occupying. Not "give".

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #9)

Fri Mar 30, 2018, 02:04 PM

11. Be glad they didnt take it ALL! Thats what happens in war.

 

Sure, make the Golan Heights part of it; its contiguous to the rest. Jordan was created at the same time as Israel, so they could participate. If these countries really care about the Palestinians having a sizable state of their own, they would be willing to help. Instead Israel, who has been attacked continually for decades, is expected to do all the work.
This will never be solved because the Palestinians continue to back groups that want the TOTAL removal of Israel.
If they ever come to their senses, they may see peace. Until then, they can enjoy the fruits of their decisions.

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Response to 7962 (Reply #11)

Fri Mar 30, 2018, 02:18 PM

13. Even when countries took land, changing boundaries -- they took the people too

Those people were then citizens of the country. This then becomes in most cases a fait accompli. Even in Jerusalem, which was annexed -- Arabs born there find that they cannot get citizenship - even those born recently when it was part of Israel.

What Israel did was different. They control the land for all real purposes ... yet the people there are not considered Israelis -- and this has gone on for 50 years! Maps of the west bank over those 50 years show settlements.

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Response to 7962 (Reply #11)

Fri Mar 30, 2018, 02:20 PM

14. We've invaded countries over that.

And for much less.

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Response to sandensea (Reply #14)

Fri Mar 30, 2018, 04:26 PM

18. Well, of course....Iraq....

 

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Response to 7962 (Reply #11)

Fri Mar 30, 2018, 03:24 PM

16. Well, no. You're distorting history.

Transjordan was created at the same time as the Palestinian mandate; it got independence as Jordan a couple of years before Israel and Palestine were created. Palestine was then divided up between Egypt (Gaza), Jordan (the West Bank) and Israel (an enlargement of the borders Israel was created with).

Israel occupied Gaza and the West Bank in 1967. Jordan renounced its claim to the West Bank in 1988. So, you are obviously wrong; Jordan has renounced its claim, and people want Israel to do the same.

Your "be glad" is another indicatino you're pro-invasion of land, in general; your idea of taking land from Jordan and Syria, for no more reason that I can see than you think a larger country is 'better' in some way, is the most idiotic "solution" I've heard for the Middle East. But if you can't get the basic facts right, perhaps it isn't surprising.

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Response to 7962 (Reply #1)

Fri Mar 30, 2018, 08:43 AM

4. Withdrawing from occupied territories isn't the same as 'giving up land' n/t

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Response to TubbersUK (Reply #4)

Fri Mar 30, 2018, 10:03 AM

6. It's not only if it's predecided where the borders are.

Predeciding the borders is, like predeciding Jerusalem's status, "taking the issue off the table."

We object to one and praise the other. They have the same effect overall, but carries with it the presupposition that one side is good and the other evil.

What's amusing is that the "capital" of Israel has been Jerusalem since what? 1950? Even while claimed as Jordanian territory, the official administrative and legislative buildings of Israel *were* located in Jerusalem. This should be a hint that just maybe the recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital doesn't *have* to be a deal breaker for the Palestinians. Except that it is, and that, too, has some presuppositions that we are quite capable of uncovering, however reluctantly.

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Response to Igel (Reply #6)

Fri Mar 30, 2018, 02:30 PM

15. They were located in WEST JERUSALEM which is a relatively newer addition

that was within the Green line. Every plan the world has spoken of had BOTH countries having their capital in Jerusalem - the Israelis in West Jerusalem and the Palestinians in East Jerusalem. Most then had a vague, not defined comment that parts of the ancient city needed some special solution, possibly belonging to both, jointly administered, or to neither with some international body administering it.

UN resolution 234 which is seen as defining the boundaries based largely on where it was before the war, with some swaps is interpreted very differently by various parties.. The international interpretation, the US interpretation, and the Israeli interpretation of the text are wildly different. ( in one case on the meaning of "the"

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Response to 7962 (Reply #1)

Fri Mar 30, 2018, 11:51 AM

10. K&R for the issue itself, and this smart response. Thanks. nt

 

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Response to Name removed (Original post)

Fri Mar 30, 2018, 08:29 AM

3. Gaza-Israel border: Clashes 'leave five Palestinians dead and hundreds injured'

The Palestinian health ministry says at least five people have been killed and 350 wounded, many of them by Israeli gunfire.
...
The IDF said troops were "firing towards the main instigators" to break up rioting that included the burning of tyres and the throwing of Molotov cocktails and stones at the fence.

The IDF said it had "enforced a closed military zone" in the area surrounding Gaza.
...
They said that one of the five who died was killed before Friday's protest started. Omar Samour, a 27-year-old farmer, was killed by Israeli tank fire near Khan Yunis.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-43593594

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 30, 2018, 09:06 AM

5. Israel has imprisoned the Palestinians and then use deadly force to

quell protests.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #5)

Fri Mar 30, 2018, 10:06 AM

7. So I guess they can all let them leave their prison.

And just not let them go to Israel.

That is one solution, I guess. It's what happens when you're surrounded on three sides by Israel and the fourth side by the sea, and have been under Israeli occupation since 1949 until the withdrawal of Jews a decade ago. That is their history, isn't it? Because otherwise how we got here stops being strictly Israel's fault and the solution isn't strictly Israel's.

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Response to Name removed (Original post)

Fri Mar 30, 2018, 02:13 PM

12. Has anyone else noticed

The Palestinians weren't trying to get that land back when it was held by Egypt, Syria and Jordan, it only became a problem after those country's lost their war of genocide against Israel and the dirty Jews controlled the land.

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Response to Name removed (Original post)

Fri Mar 30, 2018, 03:47 PM

17. Does the "Right to Return" include all the Jews who fled in 1948 also?

I am guessing not...

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