Barack Obama supporters outraged by Bernie Sanders' 'deplorable' attack on Democratic Party

[TomCADem]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by marble falls (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: Independent

Bernie Sanders has triggered a backlash by making comments interpreted as an attack on Barack Obama on the 50th anniversary of the assassination of Martin Luther King.

The senator for Vermont appeared to criticise the first black US President as he branded the Democratic Party a "failure".

Speaking in Jackson, Mississippi, he said Democrats had lost a record number of legislative seats.

"The business model, if you like, of the Democratic Party for the last 15 years or so has been a failure,' said the Vermont Senator. "People sometimes don't see that because there was a charismatic individual named Barack Obama. He was obviously an extraordinary candidate, brilliant guy. But beyond that reality..."

Read more: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/bernie-sanders-obama-anger-martin-luther-king-death-assassination-jackson-mississippi-a8289456.html

---

This story pertains to comments that Bernie Sanders just made on the 50th anniversary of the assassination of Martin Luther King. This does not relate to something Bernie Sanders said during the 2016 primaries.

[brush]

1. He can't seem to muzzle his attacks on the party. Couldn't it wait a minute while he commemorates...

the 50th Anniversary of MLK's death?

AKA ,tone deaf.

[workinclasszero]

16. Crazy ain't it?

Tone deaf as hell and helps no one but republicans/Trump.

[iluvtennis]

32. Tone deaf - agree.

[Sophia4]

28. The biggest attack on the Democratic Party is that of the voters.

Hillary won the popular vote and, if we lived in a true democracy, would be president.

We don't, and she isn't.

But, beyond the loss of the presidency, Democrats have not been winning elections in recent years. Republicans have 33 of 50 governor's mansions, control many legislatures in many states as well as the Senate and the House.

Hopefully, that drastic imbalance will change this Fall, and Democrats will once again become the majority party.

But we should welcome any criticism and any ideas, consider them carefully, no matter what person or quarter they come from.

We are the Party that tries to represent ordinary people. We should be the majority Party as we strive to represent the interests of the majority.

We should not react so negatively to criticism that is well intended. We can disagree with ideas without focusing on personalities.

And we should not offend any voters that agree with us on most if not all issues by rebuffing criticism from someone who is loved and respected by many Democrats, that is by them.

It is foolish to take things personally or to hold grudges. We all need to work together to reform the platform and structure of our party so as to serve the interests of working Americans in a better way.

As I said, hopefully, this Fall we will gain a lot of seats in Congress and also gain a new energy and perspective in the Party and, as it was when I was growing up, become the majority party in the US.

But getting all huffed up because a politician who has a wide following says something we don't like or disagree with is really not very smart at all.

Sorry if this offends anyone, but think about it. Think hard. Is this statement, if it offends you, really worth all the fuss being made on DU. Personally, I think not. We have more important things, things that build inclusion and majorities at the polls, to discuss on DU.

We are constantly reminded to focus on winning in November and on defeating Trump. That is what we should do. We should not focus on what some liberal politician says because it hurts our feelings.

Unity is the key to winning.

[Demsrule86]

108. A couple of thoughts... the gerrymander, voter suppression and super lefties demanding 'purity' and

(they claim to be left but...actions speak louder than words) somehow getting the idea that the parties are the same...now who do you suppose said that often over the years?

[Eyeball_Kid]

127. It's the Democratic Party, not the Snowflake Party.

So Sanders levies a criticism of the Democratic Party. BFD. It's better than perpetuating some kind of myth about the Dems being victimized and neutered by the GOPers' ten thousand cuts. Once we start objecting to valid criticisms, we become intolerant, weak and rigid.

[brush]

134. The commemoration of MLK's death was not the time and place. Who doesn't know that?

One particular senator, that's who.

[TCJ70]

136. Not the time or place for what? Answering questions he was directly asked?

You do know what he said was in response to an audience question, right?

[brush]

143. He's no rookie pol, and no rookie human being. Deflect the question and continue the commemoration.

Last edited Fri Apr 6, 2018, 10:47 AM - Edit history (2)

It's common sense courtesy, not to mention just plain common sense in not alienating a huge part of the Democratic Party base, African Americans, who any candidate running will need support from as we all know as recently as the Alabama special election.

The standard stump speech rhetoric could've waited.

Now it has created yet another controversy around Sanders attacking the party.

Not smart.

[pansypoo53219]

64. THAT I NOT WHAT HE SAID. points more to the RACISM in america.

do i smell borst?

[Demsrule86]

109. I listened to the entire thing which was a campaign speech in my opinion and he did say it.

[Eliot Rosewater]

169. Concerned with his legacy?

FUCK i wanted to have a good day

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HOW IN THE FUCK is this ATTACK of President Obama, saying he didnt care about the country or his job and only his legacy, how is this FUCKING SHIT on this board?

[Blackjackdavey]

135. He complimented Pres. Obama

He was responding to a specific question and the question wasn't, what do you think of Pres. Obama? Folks should watch the clip, this thread might be less sensational.

[brush]

148. Not quite. He said O was charismatic and brilliant then topped it off by basically saying he...

presided over a Democratic Party failure during his time in office, apparently forgetting about O finally getting healthcare passed, LBGTQ rights passed, steering the country out of the Great Recession, and not to mention the repug cheating, vote suppression, gerrymandering and on and on.

Some compliment.

And why not do the decent thing?

Any veteran politician, and Sanders has been at this for quite a while, knows how to deflect a question and steer the conversation back to things at hand—the commemoration of the 50th anniversary of MLK's death.

That would've been the decent thing to do. Why do you think people are so upset?

It was also not a smart thing to do. Why piss off African Americans, a big part of the Democratic Party base who anyone intending to run will need support from.

Not smart.

[George II]

180. Yes, and then he followed that up with a huge "BUT...." and proceeded to bash the Democratic Party..

...(which he refuses to join)

[pnwmom]

2. He was an extraordinary "candidate" -- but not much of a President, is the suggestion.

Thanks a lot, Mr. B. S.

[bettyellen]

57. And charismatic is praise of a deliberately superficial sort- hucksters are often

described that way. It’s insulting as fuck, did he realize it or can he just not help himself?

[pnwmom]

58. He realizes it. He's an expert at damning with faint praise

and the backhanded insult, and applying both to successful Democrats like Barack Obama.

And then he wonders why he didn't have stronger support among the party base.

[bettyellen]

60. Im disgusted by this bullshit that lets Republicans off the hook- but he seems obsessed that

They should be part of his coalition so he can’t address the real reasons he didn’t make even more progress. It’s bullshit, and he’s always been selective and careful about who he insults- unless it is Dems.

[muriel_volestrangler]

74. You think this is "letting Republicans off the hook"?

"Now how does this happen at a time when the Republican agenda is the agenda of the billionaire class and is at war with the working people? How does it happen that a party that wants to give tax breaks to billionaires and throw millions of people off their health insurance actually wins elections? "

[Demsrule86]

110. Blaming Democrats... the left abandoned the Dems in 10 which was a census

year and allowed the GOP to gerrymander the house and state legislatures which also allowed for voter suppression...people should consider the consequences before they message vote.

[mcar]

115. Funny how people forget that important fact

The "left" had a steady drumbeat of "Obama bad, ACA sucks,Dems bad" while Rs were screaming that the steps Obama had taken to shore up the economy were failires ( they weren't). This depressed Democratic turnout in 2010.

[elocs]

137. In 2010 too many from the Left didn't show up to vote here in Wisconsin.

Republicans, on the other hand, did vote. So the entire state flipped from Democratic control to Republican control, Walker was elected and Feingold was defeated and since it was a census year the Republicans were free to gerrymander the state when they took power.
Choices, meet consequences.

[Cha]

75. Yeah, the POC twitter feed I've been reading for

awhile said it was "patronizing" more than once.

Sounded like it to me.

I care how it affected them and my fellow Obama supporters.

Not hearing what he really meant.

[Me.]

168. BS Forgot To Say How Well Spoken PBO Is/Was

[Cha]

73. ".. Obama is brilliant".. yeah, we know BS.. we don't need

you to tell us.

BS wanted him primaried in 2012.. he's always had questionable comments on President Obama.

[Blackjackdavey]

138. Charles Barkley:

“This a wake-up call for Democrats,” he said, adding that the party “takes the black vote for granted and poor folk for granted.”

Bernie said the same thing. Do you disagree?

[pnwmom]

150. I don't see Bernie doing anything to win minority voters over. Complaining about

"identity politics" certainly won't do it.

And why did he travel all the way to MS, for an event marking the death of MLK, Jr., to render his superior judgment about our first black President?

[Eliot Rosewater]

171. And I just read that Obama was too concerned with his "legacy" to do a good job, I read that HERE

[RandySF]

3. Yeah, the ACA was just 'charisma'.

- Saving the US economy from depression - 'failure'

- Saving the auto industry and my dad's pension - 'failure"

- The Lily Ledbetter Act - 'failure'

- LGBT community allowed to openly serve in the military - 'failure'.

- Two Supreme Court judges who helped prevent states from banning same-sex marriage - 'charisma'



I can go on, but it's all flash and sizzle. Nothing gets more accomplished than making speeches.

[PaulX2]

47. Bankers From 7 Largest Banks In Prison After Stealing Everything In Sight Crashing Economy 2008

Zero.

It's amazing Trump was able to convince so many people he would help them since "both parties" were corrupt, and they believed him.

Ever ask yourself why?

Bernie could tell you.

I can't tell you because I would lose my account here, telling the truth.

[pnwmom]

59. Obama's first priority was to avert the 2nd Great Depression, even though

many R's wanted it to happen so they could blame it on the Democrats.

His second was to get universal health insurance passed.

He accomplished both.

[RhodeIslandOne]

65. And 16 Dem Senators shit all over part of that legacy two weeks ago

By going after Dodd/Frank.

Explain how that fits into the business model?

[pnwmom]

67. That was wrong. That doesn't excuse Bernie disparaging President Obama,

which he did when he dismissed him as an extraordinary "candidate" in a 15 year period of failure.

[shanny]

112. +1

CIA agents ousted for torture and cover up:

Zero.

And now one is poised to become head of the Agency.

Chickens, roosting.

[mcar]

116. So, ignore Obama's accomplishments and focus on something

that didn't happen. For many reasons, BTW. You do know that President's can't just throw people in prison, don't you?

[Eliot Rosewater]

172. Are you saying the Democratic Party is corrupt?

[Cha]

77. Yeah, funny how BS never mentions those Accomplishments..

only "charismatic".. and "Failure of the Democratic Business Model" and on MLK's assassination Anniversary, too.. right after our Big WIN in Wisconsin.

He sure didn't mention that.

[Eliot Rosewater]

177. Eventually people will figure out who is actively doing the propaganda that is meant to

PREVENT people from voting for any democrat and only to vote for certain democrats.

And how that ultimately elects more republicans, but will it be too late?

[cloudythescribbler]

4. can't speak for Bernie Sanders, but think his meaning here totally misunderstood

As I see it, his was a critique of the Democratic Party as a whole and its strategy. It has failed to win anywhere near the degree that a more populistic approach would likely yield, and this may prove to be true this November as well, if the Dems, even with gains, fail to win control of Congress.

The example of Obama in the quote proferred seems to be as a qualifier or caveat -- Obama was unusually appealing & charismatic, but generally the Democrats have been losing most everything else, including not only the GOP winning Congress in 2010, but mostly holding it, as well as an overwhelming GOP advantage at the state level of government, considered overall

Again, this is an interpretation, made with no special claim to authority or inside knowledge of the subject

[David__77]

7. No, this is about a gaggle of factionalists.

...

[melman]

9. It's deliberately misconstrued

They know it's not true and they simply do not care.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

33. Why should they? The insults of Obama by others beloved here far eclipse anything Bernie ever said.

Yet, not a peep... cue the crickets <chirp, chirp>

[Demsrule86]

114. Who are you talking about?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

22. Misunderstood? Or completely twisted? The Bernie bashing is getting old.

[PaulX2]

48. There Is A Reason We Have Lost Too Many Elections In The Past

If we can't look at what's not working, how can our party get better?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

106. Maybe Bernie should write a book titled A 10-Year History of WTF Happened - How We Lost 1000+ Seats.

Then go on a year long world-wide book tour, TV/radio campaign to talk about it, blaming who knows who.

[Demsrule86]

117. It is not rocket science... the left left abandons Pres. Obama in 10...a census year...the GOP

develops a super computer gerrymander for the House and state legislatures...voter suppression ensues...and the truly ironic thing is now some who were part of the group who abandoned the president in 10 are using the losses to make their case...when in reality they were the cause of the entire electoral mess...which allowed the GOP to win elections despite having less votes. Not saying folks here by the way. If you are here, you vote Democratic.

[babylonsister]

81. Amen. Like there's nothing else to

focus on.

[Cha]

98. Tell that to BS.. he's the one went down to Jackson, Mississippi

to go after the Democratic Party and President Barack Obama.. on the Anniversary of the assassination of Dr Martin Luther King, and the day after we won big in Wisconsin.

You can roll your eyes all you want.. doesn't change what happened. BS isn't immune from getting criticized for his comments.

I listen to how this affected the POC community.. not how his fans explain him.

[DallasNE]

52. Agree

This criticism could well be directed at Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, who was a disaster. The whole Democratic establishment, including Obama, failed to effectively counter the Tea Party, apparently not understanding the effectiveness of dog whistle politics. While "when they go low, we go high" sounded good on paper, it didn't work as hate and fear sells, sick as it is. The recent success is a grassroots effort more than a coordinated plan rolled out by the Democratic party. Perez is a big improvement at DNC

[7962]

83. I agree with you. He's talking about losing because of bad candidates.

Except that Obama was a great candidate. Thats why he puts it that way
Of course, Bernie COULD actually JOIN the Democratic Party if he wanted to affect change....

[vi5]

181. Not only that....

"Obama was unusually appealing and charismatic, but generally the Democrats have been losing most everything else."

The other caveat to that is that the only time we even made a decent amount of headway in any other areas was when Obama was on the ballot. Every time he's not, we can't seem to make advances.

But yeah, everything is perfect and it's really only because Bernie is so critical that Democrats are in the mess we are in nationwide.

[still_one]

5. I suspect Sanders no longer has any ambition to run for president under the Democratic label in

2020, because he has just succeeded in alienating the very people he would need if he wanted to realize that ambition.

Also, not a very wise move to effectively say the first African American President was an empty suit to an audience celebrating and remembering the life of Martin Luther King.

That assessment is also a blatant lie.

As far as I am concerned this demostrates that Bernie Sanders is a condescending _______, who has just demonstrated why he isn't qualifed to be president.

[progressoid]

13. Yeah, the crowd really booed him when he said that.

Oh, wait a sec. The crowd didn't boo him. They cheered. WTF?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

23. Hmmm?

[progressoid]

36. I probably should have included the sarcasm thingy.

[still_one]

24. That isn't the point. He called President Obama an empty suit. Not only is that a LIE,

but as far as I am concerned it demonstrates that Sanders is a condescending person.

However, since he has made it clear he does NOT want to be identified with the Democratic party, he had his 15 minutes of fame, and I think that will be about it.

[melman]

27. No

He actually did not say that. No matter how many times you or others insist he did...he did not.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

40. There you go again with those inconvenient truths!!

[still_one]

42. Yes he did. I listend to the link, and that is exactly how he characterized President Obama. That

is fine since Sanders has made a point not identifying himself as a Democrat, but if Senator Sanders considers a run in 2020 as a Democrat, I doubt that will resonate very well with most Democrats.

[jg10003]

30. Please specify where in the video the words "empty suit" occur.

Clearly He was saying the Democrats failed despite Obama being an "extraordinary candidate, brilliant guy."

[still_one]

51. That was the implication. This isn't rocket science. "It was only his charisma, and his brillance

as a candidate", not what he accomplished. In fact by saying that Democrats have failed in the last 15 years, is not only critical of the Democrats but also President Obama who also is a Democrat.

Within those LAST 15 years excluding the current WH occupant, there are only two presidents. Obama and bush, and bush got in because some of the wonderful insight of some self-identified progressives who pushed the LIE that there was no difference between republicans and Democrats.

The fact is the only way the Democrats will succeed in 2020 is with a new face and candidate that will unite them. It sure won't be Senator Sanders

[jg10003]

55. The implication was that the Dems have lost 1000's of state and local elections

in spite of having an "extraordinary candidate, brilliant guy" elected president.
the whole talk had nothing to do with Obama's legislative achievements.
Bernie was talking about how the dems have been losing ground for 15 years and what could be done about. Just because we had one extraordinary person elected president doesn't change the fact the Democrats have been losing ground for 15 years.

[still_one]

56. we are going to disagree on this

[progressoid]

34. "extraordinary candidate and a brilliant guy" means "empty suit" ?

So what does quote about Obama mean then?

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy."

Also, he's had more than his 15 minutes of fame. At least here on DU, people can't seem to stop talking about him.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

43. Hmmm, who was it that said Obama would of been fetching them coffee prior to his run for Prez?

Don't think that was Bernie. Who was it again?

[progressoid]

46. Gosh, if someone said that, they shouldn't even be allowed to be a Democrat.

Saying that would be like calling Obama a servant!1!'

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

49. Yessss!! (I'll hafta Google it.)

[jg10003]

25. Context is everything. The article ends with "But beyond that reality..." No one who hears what

follows can think it was a criticism of Obama.

[progressoid]

35. Unfortunately, most here don't want to get the context.

[caraher]

37. How many chiming in here will bother to watch this?

It's abundantly clear that the critique is not of Obama's presidency, that he is not throwing shade on Obama's considerable achievements in office, but speaking of the electoral success of the party as a whole. To the degree he says anything at all about Obama it's simply in praise of his prowess as a candidate. What he's really talking about is the loss of so many state legislatures, inadequate voter turnout...

And no, he isn't saying we forgot to court the working-class white vote. He specifically says we need to turn out the millennials in greater numbers - because that demographic is already firmly in our camp.

What's truly divisive is not examining strategy, but taking offense where none is offered in order to demonize a major progressive voice.

[progressoid]

41. Agreed.

If Elizabeth Warren or Cory Booker or anyone else said the same, it would be acceptable. But too many are still carrying a grudge to see the message.

[Pauldg47]

44. I agree too...totally!

[murielm99]

61. If either one said that,

I would be angry. No one here would be parsing words and phrases to get at what they "really meant." All the "progressives" here would be calling for them to be primaried.

At least Warren or Booker would have more right to say it, being actual Democrats.

I moved past the primary long ago. I would venture to say that Bernie has not moved past it. He seems to have a lot of bitterness towards our party. And he chose the wrong venue and occasion to express that bitterness.

Anyone who speaks about our losses should take into consideration the voter suppression, gerrymandering, Fox News, hate radio propaganda and the outright ignorance of much of our electorate.

I am not the only one who has moved on. I see much more activism and much larger voter turnout than I ever believed possible. These people are working on the future, not revisiting the Democratic primary. And not all the people working on the future, on elections and on getting elected are millennials, the people Bernie seemed to be addressing.

[progressoid]

72. "Democratic Leadership Is 'Old And Creaky' "

Who said that? Oh, yeah. Howard Dean.

"This party is in trouble."

And in 2014:

Former Vermont Governor Howard Dean believes Democrats suffered a bad midterm election because they lacked a clear message. “Where the hell is the Democratic party?" he asked on NBC’s Meet the Press Sunday. "You've got to stand for something if you want to win."

What's wrong with Howard? Bitter? Can't move on from losing? Or maybe he was just offering his opinion, not unlike Bernie.


By the way, Sanders didn't choose that venue to "express his bitterness". He answered a question from an audience member. And if you listen to the video past the Obama part - that seems to have everyone's undies in a bunch - you don't hear bitterness. He's actually optimistic and encourages the audience to get involved in the Democratic party.

[Reader Rabbit]

107. Thank you

This is especially important because something like 47% of American voters are unaffiliated with either party. That's probably a major reason the DSCC tapped Sanders for outreach. They figured he had the best chance to draw in that bloc of voters.

[Eliot Rosewater]

173. I wish I could talk about him here

To be fair it is not only here.

I noticed John Fuselang for instance bashed Hillary constantly but he is off limits too

[David__77]

6. Bernie Bernie Bernie!

Nothing is more popular on this site. Hot stuff indeed.

[jg10003]

8. I think he was referring to the party's failure to expand its base to working class whites.

Many Dem congressman often complained that Obama did not do enough to the help the party. This does not detract from Obama's many legislative accomplishments. But the "business model" of the Dem party has been a failure, that's why we don't have President H.R Clinton and Majority Leader Schumer.

[TomCADem]

12. Bernie Is Playing Identity Politics With Dog Whistles To Working Class Whites

He echoes Trump's attacks on Amazon, then he effectively says that President Obama was articulate for a black guy on the 50th Anniversary of MLK's death. Likewise, Bernie has scapegoated immigrants in the past and he still scapegoats trade as a cure all for the ills facing the working class.

Bernie could just focus on taxes and health care, but this would then put him in the same boat as Elizabeth Warren and other progressive Democrats.

Bernie, like Donald Trump, continues to rely on white resentment.

Here is the interesting thing. Trump has somehow shut Bernie up on trade and tariffs. As recently, as January, Bernie was egging Trump on to pull out of NAFTA and get tough with China. However, now that Trump is doing exactly that, Bernie has suddenly gone radio silent on tariffs. Instead, Bernie has echoed Trump's attacks on Amazon and Barack Obama. On the anniversary of MLK's death no less.

My take is that this is not a mistake. This is a calculated effort to issue dog whistles to Trump supporters. I think Bernie is planning on a 2020 independent bid and he knows he can't just win by relying on the left. He needs to win over some Trump supporters as well.

[Skittles]

14. correct

maybe he can team up with Mello

[progressoid]

50. " articulate for a black guy" Actually, you're thinking about Joe Biden.

Jan. 31, 2007

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."

[earthshine]

62. You know what's funny ...

To say he will run as an independent is outright laughable. There's nothing that suggests it.

And what's even funnier ...

If Bernie runs for Pres, and wins the Democratic primary, you'd have to vote for him.

[TomCADem]

139. Bernie Has Always Run as an Independent for Senate

Yet, it is laughable to think he won’t for President?

[earthshine]

170. Yes. Because he said so, so many times.

Out of his own mouth, if he ran as an independent for president, he'd split the Dem party.

Many would have voted for Bernie over Hillary in a three-way race with Trump, guaranteeing a Trump win.

Instead those Bernie supporters who were actually Democrats naturally voted for Hillary. He also attracted many who were not Dems to vote for him, and upon losing the primary, they voted however they did.

You are well known for your knee-jerk, anti-Bernie views. So if you had to vote for him, like I had to vote for Hillary, I'd find it funny.

[Demsrule86]

119. And why should POC support Sanders in a 20 primary as he has called for the end of identity

politics and wants to court the white working class AKA Trump voters. I have no idea why he even went to this event. I would also say another reason we lost is the GOP policies increased the jailing of Black People who then were denied the right to vote...it all adds up to massive voter suppression.

[TCJ70]

125. There's no mention of race anywhere in the question he was asked or the answer he gave...

...let's not inject it where it isn't.

[TreasonousBastard]

10. Makes no difference when he said it-- it was alerted on...

Be careful when talking about St. Bernie.

[dembotoz]

84. same could be said about saying anything about hrc

the alert knife cuts both ways

[TreasonousBastard]

94. Almost, but the alert was for trashing Democrats, and Bernie refuses to join the party...

He has, however, managed to amass quite a following.

[dembotoz]

95. and we purge that following at great risk...unless you like trump

many many many dems still like and admire mr sanders....do you really wanna piss them off and have them stay home in november?

we rather need them...doesn't matter if you like them or not.

Bernie won my state in the primary......rather easily.....do you really want to piss those folks off?

we need to be arm in arm around the campfire roasting marshmallows and singing camp songs not burning bernie at the stake.
just counter productive.

[mcar]

122. I find it hard to believe that most Sanders supporters

would be so petty and short sighted that they would refuse to vote in November because some Democrats on the internet aren't being nice to Bernie.

I really find that hard to believe. It's an insult to Sanders supporters. "Better be nice to us or maybe we won't vote in November." No one could possibly be that childish. Could they?

[dembotoz]

160. read the other posts here....if you tend to be more lefty you could be concerned

the hatred of bernie is all consuming with some folks

[Eliot Rosewater]

176. What? Are you saying to get the votes of progressives we have to be nice to them?

To get progressives to vote against the Nazis we have to do what now?

[McCamy Taylor]

103. Agree. He doesn't get Democratic protection if he does not join the party.

[jmbar2]

11. Beware of outrage porn

I like Bernie most of the time, but think his statement was tone deaf. That's all. No outrage.

Our chekist friends will try to pump this up into outrage. Ain't happening...

[still_one]

15. He has effectively called the first African American President an empty suit. He did this before an

audience celebrating the life and memory of Martin Luther King.

There is nothing to pump up here, it IS outrageous as hell

[workinclasszero]

21. WTH would a person of goodwill

even imply such an untrue thing?

I just don't get it. Trump and his party are dismantling and looting the USA and Bernie is still on the attack against democrats. SMDH

[djacq]

17. I'm Confused

So is Bernie a Democratic Socialist who's a Progressive who's an Independent who's a Democrat who's not part of the Establishment but prefers Grassroots?

Did Bernie forget that President Bill Clinton pulled out of Reagan's and G.H. Bush's deficit to a surplus?;
https://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/the-budget-and-deficit-under-clinton/

Didn't "the President" pulled the U.S. out of the G.W. Bush's Great Recession into a robust economy?;
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/president-obama-the-legacy/eight-years-later-economy-president-obama-s-legacy-n703616

I don't see that as "failure".

[Sunlei]

18. 100 bonus points to media that paired words, Bernie, Obama, deplorable, attack & outrage-HEADLINE

ding, ding, ding, bonus! and tie it in with MLK 50th, WTF.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

26. Triple back flip with a half twist... perfect 10!

[Sunlei]

31. anythings possible on the internets!

I guess the words "Hillary" & "email" didn't fit in that tabloid (R)ags headline

[dhill926]

29. whatever the fuck of fuck....

get out the goddamn vote and beat repubs.

[Sunlei]

38. That's so on the mark. Vote out Rs and do not fuck up any D or D friend Senators or Congress seats.

[progressoid]

45. Which is what Sander said in his statement.

Minus the "goddamn" part.

[Ccarmona]

39. Hes Not a Corporatist, But His Own Man

Nothing to see here, move on.

[PaulX2]

53. It's The Money Folks

We can't truly take on Wall Street and the billionaires if you need 50 million to run for the Senate.

It isn't Democrats, or even Republicans. It's a whole lot deeper than that.

It's the money.

If you try to get the money out of politics the MSM who the money - PAYS FOR POLITICAL ADS - attacks you like there is no tomorrow.

Business decision on their part.

Still doesn't make it right.

When the Kochs can spend a billion dollars on one election cycle, basically buying their tax cuts, and "business friendly" (environmental unfriendly) politicians something is really really wrong.

Huuuuuuuuge problem.

Keep talking Bernie.

Thank God Trump is such an asshole. He is the best thing that happened to our party in a long time. Too bad the country may not survive if we can't save it in time. Sick isn't it.

If we don't all work our fingers to the bone getting Democrats elected, all is lost. I mean this as a matter of fact. If we take the House and Senate our country / world has a fighting chance.

[truthisfreedom]

54. Russian bullshit

[dembotoz]

63. So we gained seats under Obama?

[Skittles]

68. yes, mostly due racism, gerrymandering, voter suppression, etc

and he knows that

[BumRushDaShow]

69. We actually did

In 2012 +8 in the House and +2 in the Senate.
In 2016 +6 in the House and +2 in the Senate.

The 2014 election is where we saw the GOP make additional gains since their 2010 rout - +9 in the Senate and +12 in the House.

Ironically, that 2014 year also seems to comport to the year where we are now learning that CA started getting involved in manipulating social media.

[Cha]

78. Thank you, Ms BRDS.. always helpful

with the FACTS.. where some just post soundbites.

[dembotoz]

86. so explain to me how obama had enough dems to get obama care thru and not enough to do much anything

else after......i do know my state under obama turned redder...just did

[BumRushDaShow]

89. Gotta get your timing straight.

The ACA was passed in December 2009 (part 1) & March 2010 (part 2 via reconciliation).

Remember that during the early summer of 2009, Democrats were finally able to seat Al Franken and Arlen Specter switched parties (from R to D). And that got Democrats to 60 votes in the Senate. Later that summer, Ted Kennedy passed away and a Democratic replacement (Paul Kirk) was appointed to serve until the December MA special election. That election resulted in the election of (R) Scott Brown to Kennedy's seat, dropping the Democratic control of the Senate back down to 59 once he was sworn in January 2010. That is why pt. 2 of the ACA had to be done by reconciliation.

But then the Citizen's United ruling happened in January 2010 and by the November 2010 election, dark money poured in like an avalanche, the Koch-manufactured astroturf teabaggers and Democratic purists prevailed (throwing out a number of "troublesome" Democratic centrists/blue dogs), and away it all went.

[dembotoz]

91. did we lose seats under obama...yes...explain it anyway you want

[BumRushDaShow]

92. Did we gain seats under Obama? Yes. Explain it anyway you want.

[sheshe2]

142. Thank you.

[BumRushDaShow]

147. Hey sheshe!

This boggles the mind. Or maybe not. The pot-stirring has commenced again. Welcome to spring!

[sheshe2]

154. Hey there, BRDS.

I plan to spring forward...2018 GOTV!

[BumRushDaShow]

156. Right there with ya!!

We have completely re-mapped Congressional Districts here in PA and a Democratic governor that needs to be re-elected so GOTV is gonna be critical here. We have the potential to pick up from 2 - 5 ADDITIONAL Democrats in Congress, just from PA alone if we can get the turnout.

[sheshe2]

158. You can do it!

GOTV as if our lives depend on it, because they do.

[TCJ70]

151. You've limited the scope beyond what Sanders was talking about...

...and beyond what anyone reading what he said is talking about. Sure, if you cut up the numbers small enough you can find gains. On the whole, lots of territory was lost.

[BumRushDaShow]

155. I responded to the sub-thread OP

Otherwise the suggestion was that every election since 2008 (during the Obama term), Democrats lost seats, and that is not the case.

[TCJ70]

159. Who said "every election"? I don't see that anywhere in the post you responded to.

The question was "So we gained seats under Obama?" in relation to the statement by Sanders which encompasses not only the federal, but local and state seats as well.

EDIT: Actually, Sanders comment only mentions state houses. So the federal stuff doesn't even come into play. You've read what he said, right?

[BumRushDaShow]

163. What?

"So we gained seats under Obama?"

THAT is what I responded to and I gave facts. You can spin it to something else entirely different. Again, I am responding to the person who I replied to and you are off into hair-splitting - particularly since Sanders is IN "Congress" (federal).

[TCJ70]

174. Youre going to accuse me of splitting hairs...

...while you narrow the scope beyond what’s being talked about. Good grief.

[BumRushDaShow]

178. You are "expanding scope" beyond what I was responding to.

And what I wrote was factual but apparently didn't fit the narrative that you insist on arguing.

[Cha]

71. The purity dems stayed home at midterms

2010.. to "teach Obama a lesson".

What we got was a fucking 2010 teabagger party that spent the next years trying to REPEAL Obamacare, and unprecedented OBSTRUCTION, and a rw SCOTUS.

They cared more about stomping their feet than about our country and the Planet.

[True Blue American]

76. Thank you, Cha!

Many do not seem to understand that fighting the last election is what brought us what we have now.

[Cha]

79. I know.. history is

dead to them.

President Obama accomplished a lot with what he had to work with, but the Dems could have done a lot more if everyone had gotten out to vote in 2010 and kept the fox hate filled teabaggers to a minimum.

[BumRushDaShow]

93. Yes Cha!

They went running away from Obama at that time - and that continued even with Turtle's re-election in 2014, where Grimes bolted away from Obama like lightning.... and lost.

[Cha]

96. So my remembrance of what happened

sounds right to you, BRDS?

Thanks for reminding us about Grimes.. she wouldn't even commit that she voted for him. She was skeeered of President Obama.

Damn fox and their ilk brainwashing so many against ACA.. it was hateful! It wasn't good enough for purities.. and it was death panels on the rw.

President Obama got what he could at the time and wanted to build a strong foundation. It was important to him.. Pre-existing conditions anyone?'

Then we had some guy on DU calling the President a POSUCS.. and so many were rah rah.. stupid.

[BumRushDaShow]

97. Yup you are right on point!

And mahalo!

The expectation was that like the original Social Security law (Old Age, Survivors, & Disability Insurance), that was built-upon over the following 80 years since it's original passage (e.g., "Medicare" is an amendment to that original law), the ACA could be amended and could even be transitioned to something like "Medicare for All".

But alas.... now it is nearly in tatters because of all the temper tantrums going on.

[Cha]

99. Yes, "temper tantrums" with stomping of feet..

why we can't have nice things.

Mahalo BRDS!

[True Blue American]

140. We could have fixed

The ACA by now,expanded it and had a great system.

Instead we divided, helped Republicans and Trump win,where they have proceeded to be the most corrupt Congress and WH we have ever had. And I go back a long way with my memory.

We are in for desperate times if we continue to let people divide us. It is already happening.

[BumRushDaShow]

146. Well

Unfortunately because we lost that 60 votes in the Senate and the GOP went full-on blockage (cloture), that was pretty much the end of that. The fact that they tried probably 80+ times to repeal what was put in place is a sign of their desperation.

If you go back and look at the Congressional makeup of Congress during FDR's terms, you see he had to get up to about 70+ in the Senate during the mid - late '30s at some point to get stuff through (I believe they still had the 67 vote filibuster to deal with then and this was before AK & HI were states).

But I agree there were divisions and that did kill us in 2010 and on. It seems that the differences are more in terms of degree of implementation vs the subject of legislation.

[True Blue American]

161. Do not get me wrong

I think we stand a pretty good chance of coming back if we do not allow the Russians, Media and Republicans to defeat us again.

It has always been,” What goes around, comes around.” We just need to concentrate on the good.

As John Meacem said here and on Joe,” It takes a while, but people do not like being lied to.”

Trump is becoming more arrogant, telling lie after lie.

[BumRushDaShow]

164. Yes, I really think we have the wind at our backs

and it feels much stronger than 2006, which was the Democratic "wave" that gave us back the House after 12 years.

We have much stronger head-winds though (Citizen's United and gerrymandering that is slowly being dismantled state by state), but I think we are on our way.

[True Blue American]

183. Even the Republican USSC

Is agreeing with us on that. We may just have a few Republican Judges that care more about their Country and the rule of Law to stand up.

Remember John Roberts voted right on the ACA.

[Demsrule86]

121. Gerrymander...you do remember that right? It came because some on the left message voted in 10.

[GaryCnf]

128. I'm sorry

WHO abandoned Obama in 2010?

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/house-races/127877-hillary-voters-abandon-democrats-

Revisionist history blaming "the left" for THE CENTER'S disloyalty after Obama (and Eric Holder) started standing up for black folks and AGAINST the Crime Bill, Welfare Reform, and Habeas Corpus-gutting legacy of their "hero."

WHO led to the gerrymandering?

WHO has cost us a 1000+ Democratic office holders?

[chwaliszewski]

70. This article is garbage.

Bernie wasn't attacking Barack. This is a hit piece.

[Lytex59]

80. Independent News Owned by Lebedev

When I see a headline like this that attempts to stir up division among Democratic Party supporters, I question the source. And yep, Independent News has been owned since 2010 by Russian oligarch Lebedev who was KGB. Are we going to fall for this manipulation again? Bernie was simply stating a fact that except for Obama, the Democratic Party has been losing for 15 years. That statement is NOT a slam against Obama, and we shouldn't fall for this fake news from sources that are undermining our democracy.

[femmedem]

85. Thank you and welcome to DU. n/t

[Cha]

101. If you go to the link you will see the Tweets from the

POC community who are not impressed with BS. these are real people no matter what publication posted their tweets.

I care how they are affected.. not how his fans explain him.

[GaryCnf]

124. From a place

Where people still worship Bravenak as a "black voice."

Obviously there are some black people who have supped on the bitter gruel of excuses being served up by the acolytes of the current figurehead of the post-1992 party establishment who will join in this pathetic smear job. That doesn't say shit about "the black community" any more than the black people who support Trump.

It is beyond any rational argument whatsoever to deny that the "black community" spoke from their living room and NOT from the voting booth in 2016 AND guess what, they didn't say "The Democratic Party is with us."

Folks perpetrating this charade can act like Sanders is somehow more oblivious to the concerns of the "black community" (when defined as "the majority of black people" ) than whomever is the current establishment favorite, but he is pretty much on the same level of "obliviousness" as most white folks in our party. Until they admit that, this is NOTHING but deflection from the miserable effort we have made to reach out to the black community (and, NO, the party establishment doesn't get to claim Barack Obama after it tried to stop him in 2008 right up until the time they saw they couldn't) and the (can't say the word) appropriation of great man's memory to fight what is really a white battle.

[fleabiscuit]

185. Wow. It's almost like there was something different that happened in the 2016 election. nt

[HopeAgain]

82. Lots of screaming and gnashing of the teeth

Good God, just don't vote for the man. I won't at this point, but the Democtatic party isn't going to melt because of what Bernie said.

[Cha]

100. "Screaming.. "? "gnashing of teeth"? I don't see any

of that.. I see BS getting criticized for his comments in Jackson, Mississippi on the Anniversary of the assassination of Dr Martin Luther King.

I listen to the POC community whose tweets are at the link and how it affected them.

[GaryCnf]

87. Nor does it relate to the truth

Sanders said what those of us who live and work in the black community not only knew before November '16, but are even more certain of now.

The two terms of the brilliant Barack Obama were an 8 year reprieve from post-92 party establishment which threw us under the bus to pamder to white suburban women.

Lest there be the slightest doubt, this pathetic exploitation of a sacred event to continue what is essentially a white folks internecine battle has made it clear to all of us not given to idolatry.

We get it. The '92 forward establishment wants to bury Willie Horton, families on public assistance, the hundreds of thousands of young black men imprisoned under the Crime Bill, the mutilated body of Ricky Rector, ACORN, Michael Brown, Black Lives Matters, even Colin Kaepernick and run on issues that don't make white folks squirm.

We don't need them to prove it by donning their best Carribean vacation dreadlocks to fight the same old white on white battle they've been fighting ever since their b.s. strategy added one more loss to the 1000+ it lost us before 2016.

Brush out those braids and speak for yourself.

[left-of-center2012]

88. Snooze alert. Attacking Bernie is so boring.

In my humble opinion.

[saidsimplesimon]

90. Forgive me Bernie. Opinion

You have crossed a "bridge to far" for me to navigate. I do not see Senator Sanders as a viable Presidential candidate in 2018. At this early date, with no vetting, or analysis of their likelihood to win in 2018, I favor Cory Booker and/or Kamala Harris. No baggage please, we have many qualified people.

I do respect Bernie and admire the work he has done for US. I will be writing to him today, along with the leadership of "Our Revolution". The message will include a suggestion that they join the Democratic Party and cease any public comments critical of the Democratic Party and negative campaigning of Democratic Party candidates.

Candidates running on their own merits and commitment to, not just lip service, serving the best interests of ALL in their District, State or our Country will be my focus. Running solely on how despicable rump is not a winner. We in the choir will be driven to the polls for this reason. In order to increase turnout in every district, our message must be inspirational not more calling others "deplorable".

Bloody primary campaigns and Independent parties would serve both Tsar Putin and "the man who is not to be named". I supported President Obama during his primary against Mrs. Clinton and during both terms because I believed, and still do, he was the best qualified to win elections and serve US.

[bluedye33139]

102. Who contributed more to our betterment, Mr Sanders or Obama?

[True Blue American]

141. I am almost afraid to answer.

Question!

Which one is the Democrat? I know the one I admire. He is a brilliant Constitutional Attorney that could have accomplished miracles if he had the backing of Congress.

He did make a start, giving us the ACA!

[McCamy Taylor]

104. Don't like this dismissal of "charismatic individual". Dr King was and is charismatic.

Sometimes an inspiring human being is more important than a legislative seat.

[Demsrule86]

123. He wasn't complimenting the president.

[McCamy Taylor]

105. On the other hand, there is plenty of divide and conquer here, too.

Sanders is probably trying to make a statement about the need to get out the vote, but he seems tone deaf.

[muriel_volestrangler]

111. It was an explicit statement on the need to get out the vote

The second half of his reply, which The Independent doesn't talk about:

Now how does this happen at a time when the Republican agenda is the agenda of the billionaire class and is at war with the working people? How does it happen that a party that wants to give tax breaks to billionaires and throw millions of people off their health insurance actually wins elections?

So one of the things we have got to do, which I mentioned earlier, is make sure that the Democrats - you don't win elections unless you show up! It's not just in Mississippi, although lately we've seen Democrats beginning to show up in Alabama, but it's also showing up in Kansas and in (???), and that is beginning to happen, so what we are doing is trying against a whole lot of opposition - you know, the establishment doesn't go quietly into the twilight - but we are trying to open the doors of the Democratic party to young people, to millennials.

[mcar]

113. Tone deaf, to say the least

[Blue_Tires]

118. Bad optics...

As it has been pointed out countless times, the "1000 seats lost" talking point is a cherry-picked RW smear and Sanders showed a shocking lack of judgement in recirculating it...

But the bottom line is Bernie has to decide once and for all if he's going to be the de facto head of the party or if he prefers being the renegade outsider who snipes us from a distance...

[dlk]

126. When People Show You Who They Really Are, Believe Them

Bernie is a white male. There is privilege that goes along with that.

[David__77]

132. Anti-Semitism is racism.

Jews do not benefit from the presence of white supremacy.

[CrispyQ]

130. Didn't the dems lose almost 1,000 state seats & governorships during that time?

The truth hurts, but yeah, the dems dropped the ball.

on edit: 910 state seats

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vrJo3OYWF96YuejPatLyxKhrGp4hLHorN6MGEvVMlNU/edit#gid=0

[TomCADem]

144. RW Uses This Talking Point to Say People Support Trump/GOP

It is not like Dems are losing to the left. They are losing to Tea Party, union hating, NRA embracing, tax cutting zealots.

Perhaps a RW media industry and millions of Post Citizens United money has something to do with it?

[CrispyQ]

165. 910 seats is not a talking point, it's a fact.

Of course the rw is going to use that against the dems. That's politics! And marketing. But what are the dems going to do about it? A better question is, what have the dems done about it for the past 38 years as the rw ramped up that media industry? This power shift didn't happen overnight. How did gerrymandering get so out of control that we lost the House for almost a decade? How did one major party overlook the thievery of the other major party to the point we are on the brink of one party rule? A sham of a democratic republic. A few days ago I read an article on how Trump's tariffs could negatively affect farmers to the point they don't vote for him. It didn't say they would vote for the dems, but they wouldn't turn out for Trump. The author stated that the dems problem is that they (the dems) are good at policy but terrible at politics. I thought that was an excellent way to put it, & that is partly why we are where we are.

[asiliveandbreathe]

131. As Dems, we are open for debate - listening, responding, and more often than not

without personal attack...I sure hope today we do not hang on this - we have more work to do for the coming mid-terms...

If this is somehow a way for a politician to garner attention (it usually is) then be the bettah - and walk away....

There are plenty of happenings that need our attention..I think we had enough of this particular debate yesterday....

Let's keep our eye on Nov..should this debate become an issue in AUG or Sept...then we will know what the intent is....

[True Blue American]

145. I would love to move on to this election

And discuss what we need to do.

[heaven05]

133. oh he's

a stealth "bomber" of the Democratic Party being the "independent" that he claims to be. In these times calling the Democratic Party a failure, implying that President Barack Obama was a failure as POTUS with not mentioning the UNPRECEDENTED obstruction a white racist RW Party created for the whole of his presidency. What did they say? "We are going to make him a one term president" and that promise made in a side room at the first Inaugural Ball of President Obama.

Senator Sanders has offered nothing to make the Democratic Party stronger as many see it. To take a remembrance of an assassinated man of greatness and use it to attack President Barack Obama is disgusting and shameful.

[Gothmog]

149. Sanders attacks on President Obama are both wrong and will hurt Sanders

[TCJ70]

153. Which part is the attack? The charismatic, extraordinary, or brilliant part? n/t

[BumRushDaShow]

162. The fact that these terms were used dismissively

in the middle of an overall negative theme.

It's called damning with faint praise. Just like Drumpf does before he fires one of his minions.

[Adrahil]

182. Exactly. It's the rhetorical equivalent...

of saying a girl as a "nice personality." In the context it was used, it implies criticism of other characteristics. But don't expect the Sandernistas to ever acknowledge a flaw in Saint Bernie.

[Gothmog]

167. Denial is not just a river in Africa

[samplegirl]

152. Bernie Sanders

Has been a thorn in the Democratic Party since the get go. We need to just shun him now!

[earthshine]

175. Without Bernie supporters, the Democartic party will not win the 2020.

Imagine if he becomes the Democratic primary winner. You'd have to vote for him, however distasteful it might be to you.

[Historic NY]

157. Sanders looking for black voters.....

is like chicken looking for a new Colonel.

He's mashugana.

[David__77]

166. Yiddish insults for a Jewish man.

I see!

[elleng]

179. Keep it up, folks,

and we'll continue to lose.

[TomCADem]

184. Someone Tell Bernie...

...he needs to get a clue that Republicans are in charge, yet he continues with the false equivalency of blaming both parties.

[BumRushDaShow]

186. At this point

I think that is a last gasp.

Here on DU is one thing but out in the populace, I think minds are already made up and there are FINALLY many Democrats running for seats that never even had any opposition before, so I think we have a much better chance than any time in the recent past.

[marble falls]

187. Locking. This is not LBN repost in GD.