MH17 downed by Russian military missile system, say investigators

[muriel_volestrangler]

Source: The Guardian

Dutch investigators say they have uncovered hard evidence that a Russian army missile system fired the missile that shot down flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine in 2014.

The Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 was travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur when it was shot down over the conflict zone in eastern Ukraine on 17 July 2014. All 298 people onboard were killed.

In 2016, Dutch investigators announced they had evidence that the BUK system involved in the incident had crossed the border into eastern Ukraine from Russia and returned after the plane had been shot down.

At a press conference in The Hague on Thursday, Dutch police and prosecutors showed photo and video evidence they said proved that they had identified the specific BUK system responsible for shooting down the plane. They said they now had “legal and convincing evidence which will stand in a courtroom” that the BUK system involved came from the 53rd anti-aircraft missile brigade based in Kursk in western Russia.

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/24/mh17-downed-by-russian-military-missile-system-say-investigators

[Glamrock]

1. Sarah Huckabee Sanders

We, uhm aren't going to comment about ongoing international, uhm investigations.

[trusty elf]

2. ....

[marble falls]

26. I'm posting this all over the net today, thanks a lot for posting it!

[bronxiteforever]

28. I can't get enough of this!

Thank you

[Achilleaze]

3. Dirty Donny* & republicans are in bed with some EVIL EMPIRE** freaks

* aka Comrade Casino, republican Draft-Dodger-in-Chief
** per ronald freaking reagan

[TimeSnowDemos]

4. Least surprising news in a long time

Of course it's not like the US hasn't shot down an airline or two...

[marble falls]

10. Someone who doesn't remember the Vincenes shooting down an Iranian...

liner with 290 passengers got angry over your post.

Iran Air Flight 655
On 3 July 1988, Iran Air Flight 655, a scheduled civilian passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai, was shot down by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from, a guided missile cruiser of the United States Navy. The aircraft, an Airbus A300, was destroyed and all 290 people on board including 66 children were killed.More at Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

[TimeSnowDemos]

16. I'm someone got angry

but even more sorry that so many Americans don't know about thousands of things like this in US history.

[7962]

22. And "whataboutism" makes its appearance quickly

The US admitted shooting down that airliner.
The Russians have blamed everyone but the Pope for the Malaysian shoot down.

[TimeSnowDemos]

29. Gross oversimplification

Last edited Thu May 24, 2018, 09:57 AM - Edit history (1)

The US fought admitting any and responsibility, despite lots of evidence to the contrary. And in their final settlement they only agreed to pay on the basis that they were not found responsible.

Add to that, the US' best defense is incompetence. The same is probably true with Russia and this airliner. It's an extremely on the nose comparison, and should be kept in mind when the US media talks about this issue.

Finally, US complaints about Iranian behavior is the actual whataboutism in this relationship. Americans may not know the history of Iranian/US interactions, but Europe and the ME do. And they have about as much time for US moaning and fear mongering about Iran as they do for Israeli moaning about the Palestinians. Which is to say very very very little.

[7962]

30. Still a HUGE difference between admitting you did it & blaming everyone else for years.

The Russians faked pictures, faked data, accused others, etc, ever since it happened. And have YET to even admit that one of their misses was used.
Not sure what the Palestinian fiasco has to do with any of this, but MOST of the ME is certainly concerned with the Iranians and their constant support of terror groups. The Europeans are now worried about the flood of migrants they're having to deal with after ignoring warnings of what was going to happen. But hey, hopefully they learn from their mistakes.

[TimeSnowDemos]

36. LOL

The ME is FAR less concerned with Iranian backed terror groups than they are another US war. They know as Americans should that Iran has NO history of starting war - unlike the US - no history of plotting and carrying out illegal coups - unlike the US.

So you know, I'm an ex-pat living in Europe. Your impression of Europe is pretty uninformed.

And for the record, the US DID try and cover up what happened with Flight 655. They lied about where the US ship was (It was in Iranian water) and they lied about the aggressive behavior of the commanding officer of the US ship. Independent investigators from the US and Europe also poked holes in contradictory explanations put forth by the US for the murder of 290 civilians, who were mostly women and children.

These lies and attempts to cover up a crime have been documented in the US media, like in Slate back in 2014. You'll note the headline:

"The time the United States blew up a passenger plane—and tried to cover it up."

"American officials told various lies and blamed the Iranian pilot. Not until eight years later did the U.S. government compensate the victims’ families, and even then expressed “deep regret,” not an apology."

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2014/07/the_vincennes_downing_of_iran_air_flight_655_the_united_states_tried_to.html?via=gdpr-consent

This article has a clear time table of all of the lies the US government told to cover up what it did - they also repeatedly blamed the Iranians, going so far as to claim it was a suicide attack at one point:

https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2017/07/03/the-forgotten-us-shootdown-of-iranian-airliner-flight-655%C2%AD/



So, you know... it was an extremely apt comparison and I stand by it.

[7962]

38. See the post below yours. You posted the wrong Newsweek. Different RUSSIAN murder, not the US.

And about 1/2 my family is European. I go by what they tell me as well as what I see on the news. Not asking you where you live, but that itself has a LOT to do with the impact of the problems.

[TimeSnowDemos]

41. The thing is

I live here. Whatever you might see on the news or anecdotal evidence you might hear from some relation is about like you summing up America to a European... if you HAPPEN to hate Trump you'll give the impression that all of America hates Trump, potentially, and that's far from true.

Come visit and see for yourself. The US caused refugee crisis was a HUGE deal a few years ago, but has largely receded from view. Right wing media DESPERATELY tries to keep it alive, but... it's just not a big deal generally speaking...

Europeans are however aware that the US is responsible for that crisis, and has ZERO interest in yet another US war on it's villain du jour.

The image I posted was wrong, btw., but the story is right. The US murdered a bunch of women and children - hardly the first time that's happened - and then blamed the victims - all while lying about it's behavior to cover-up it's complicity.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

34. The image on the left shows Korean Air Lines Flight 007. It was shot down by the Russians too.

Here's how it appears in the original article at Wikipedia:

Iran Air Flight 655
....

Critique of U.S. media coverage



Newsweek covers for 12 September 1983 (left) and 18 July 1988 (right), illustrating the KAL007 and Iran Air incidents respectively. A full-page photo of the airplane with "Murder in the Air" leaves little doubt in reader's mind of who the culprits were, while "Why it Happened" with no graphic presentation of the airplane is accompanied by questioning and soul-searching.

Quick geography lesson: that's Japan behind the plane and Alaska in the upper right hand corner. The Korean Peninsula (North and South Korea) is in orange.

The aircraft itself is clearly a Boeing 747.

Just to be sure, you can right click on the image and select "Search Google for image." This shows up right away:

WORLD

NEWSWEEK REWIND: WHEN KOREAN AIR LINES FLIGHT 007 WAS SHOT DOWN

BY ROB VERGER ON 7/17/14 AT 5:31 PM

ETA, 10:06 a.m.: the original post has been corrected. Thanks.

[TimeSnowDemos]

37. That is correct

I confused myself and posted the wrong thing. I will edit the original post. The fact of the matter is that the US media did cover it very differently than the US media, and only in the last few years is the US media catching up to the reality of the story.

[NutmegYankee]

5. This was proven years ago.

The pilots bodies were filled with the fragmentation shrapnel from the warhead. The missile flew from below and exploded just outside and overhead of the pilots window, with the fragmentation pieces shredding the fuselage and breaking the plane apart. The unique shape of fragmentation pieces was only used in one type of Russian Missile System.

[muriel_volestrangler]

7. It's not the missile type that's just been proved, it's the division of the Russian army

that it belonged to. While there was good evidence for which that was before, as well, this is the official investigation, saying it's strong enough to stand up in court.

[NutmegYankee]

11. Proved a "Russian military system"

Who makes the Buk? Oh right!

[marble falls]

13. Read again ....

"At a press conference in The Hague on Thursday, Dutch police and prosecutors showed photo and video evidence they said proved that they had identified the specific BUK system responsible for shooting down the plane. They said they now had “legal and convincing evidence which will stand in a courtroom” that the BUK system involved came from the 53rd anti-aircraft missile brigade based in Kursk in western Russia."

[marble falls]

14. First post strongly defending the Russians? Smells like a sock.

[7962]

31. Well, you called it!!

[marble falls]

32. The odor of pizza was strong in that one.

[7962]

15. And what a great "first post"!

[Botany]

21. Nice post comrade.

как погода в Ст Петербург?

[Igel]

43. в Ст Петербургe.

Even then it's still not right, but at least it's not like saying "he were sittings in sofa-the on."

Google trashlate isn't all that good, for all the press saying how great AI is.

(Personally, artificial insemination is a bad thing to have as the same abbreviation.)

[Codeine]

6. I remember when defending the Russians

on this issue was practically a religion around here. I do NOT miss that group of posters.

[magicarpet]

8. Propaganda, 1/2 truth, and outright lies are the bane of Democratic governance.

NT

[FBaggins]

18. I was going to say the same thing

Ah... those were the days.

Remember when RT and Sputnik weren’t really Russian propaganda outlets and US news services were worse?

[7962]

23. They moved over to DI. Takes longer to get banned over there.

When you see a member who ONLY posts on items regarding Russia and Ukraine it kinda gives you a tiny "hint"

[marble falls]

33. DI's going to be inundated with Ruskies fir the Nov election.

[dalton99a]

35. Yep.

Just like in 2016

[7962]

12. Under the heading of "No shit"

Only Russian apologists ever thought otherwise

[Igel]

44. That's an oversimplification.

There were enough people eager to bash the "fascist" Ukrainians over all sorts of things, esp. since they were vaguely pro-EU or pro-American.

Some were pro-Russian apologists. Some were "anybody but the US" or "anybody but the EU" antagonists.

Some merely fell for the BS that the Ukrainians were all fascists since some looked fascist and some were fascist. But 1-3% of the vote does not make the other 98% or so tainted. Such binary thinking is anathema to any sort of even moderately superficial understanding.

There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who don't.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

19. Defend Mother Russia at all costs.

Enjoy your stay, Comrade.

[FBaggins]

20. You're leaving off the relevant difference

The US didn’t spend years pretending that somebody else had shot it down… Let alone pay shills To post such claims online

[7962]

24. Jeeze, you should've posted about cats or trump a few dozen times before starting your "job"

Yes, people care, because of Russian denials and faked "proof" tossed out early on.

[FSogol]

27. LOL n/t

[marble falls]

25. The difference being, of course that the US admitted it right away and made reparations...

to the Iranian people and the Russians ran out like the cowards and morally/ethically challenged bullies they are and lied about and hid their shit.

[Lulu KC]

39. Question

The piece I can't seem to find: What was Russia's motivation?

1. Someone on board they wanted to literally bring down? Specific people or one type of European?
2. Just to make Ukraine look like random shooters of foreign airplanes?
3. A problem with Malaysia?


Also finding it interesting that Netherlands are discussing Magnitsky Act right now. Just a little thread of everything being connected, once again.

[muriel_volestrangler]

40. They thought it was a Ukrainian military transport

Donetsk People’s Republic militia downs another Ukraine’s An-26 plane — eyewitnesses

DONETSK, July 17. /ITAR-TASS/. Militiamen of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) brought down a military transport Antonov-26 (An-26) plane of the Ukrainian Air Force on the outskirts of the town of Torez, eyewitnesses said.
A missile hit the An-26, it fell on the ground and caught blaze, they said.

On July 14, militiamen of the self-proclaimed Luhansk People’s Republic downed another An-26 of the Ukrainian Air Force.

More:
http://tass.ru/en/world/741164

Torez is where MH17 was shot down. No An-26 was shot down that day.

[Igel]

45. I think there's the question of who "they" were.

Was it the commanders on the scene?

Was it the Russian-oriented commanders in charge of them?

Was it Strel'kov, I think Girin was going by at the time?

Was it some mid-level commander across the border in Russia?

Was it some upper-level commander?

Was it the Great Putin himself?

Each would have different set of facts, set of goals, and therefore a slightly different motivation. Perhaps they thought they were shooting down a transport. Perhaps some other military plane, a fighter or bomber perhaps? Perhaps they were targeting civilian (although I think that unlikely). Perhaps they assumed help was coming for the gay Jewish fascist Nazis they were fighting. Qui sait?

Trying to determine another's motivation by navel-gazing is a rather silly endeavor. Even if it's the other person's navel that's in your line of sight. Trying to determine it based on domestic US politics or current politics make that look like the epitome of wise.

[Blue_Tires]

42. I told y'all back in 2014 that this other shoe was dropping...

Glad to finally see it official...

God, if even five percent of the smartasses talking shit at me were still around now...

Fuck you Seymour Hersh for regurgitating Kremlin agitprop with no retraction...

And I don't care if he's deceased, FUCK YOU to Robert Parry and everyone who defended his bullshit...