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Fri Jun 29, 2018, 12:17 AM

Girl at center of debate over brain death dies, mother says (Jahi McMath)

Source: LA Times



A girl at the center of the medical and religious debate over brain death has died after surgery in New Jersey, her mother said Thursday.

Nailah Winkfield said doctors declared her daughter Jahi McMath dead from excessive bleeding and liver failure after an operation to treat an intestinal issue.

McMath had been in a vegetative state since December 2013, when a California coroner ruled that the 13-year-old girl died after suffering irreversible brain damage during an operation to remove her tonsils.

Winkfield refused to accept the conclusion and moved the girl to New Jersey, where she has been kept on life support and received care. The state accommodates religions that don’t recognize brain death.

Read more: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-jahi-mcmath-dies-20180628-story.html



Poor girl can finally rest in peace

49 replies, 5016 views

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Reply Girl at center of debate over brain death dies, mother says (Jahi McMath) (Original post)
TalenaGor Jun 2018 OP
BigmanPigman Jun 2018 #1
Hekate Jun 2018 #7
LisaL Jun 2018 #8
Hekate Jun 2018 #9
LisaL Jun 2018 #10
Hekate Jun 2018 #21
RhodeIslandOne Jun 2018 #33
pnwmom Jun 2018 #2
JI7 Jun 2018 #3
Initech Jun 2018 #4
get the red out Jun 2018 #26
Jedi Guy Jun 2018 #34
get the red out Jul 2018 #38
Jedi Guy Jul 2018 #39
get the red out Jul 2018 #45
Jedi Guy Jul 2018 #46
get the red out Jul 2018 #48
Jedi Guy Jul 2018 #49
iluvtennis Jun 2018 #5
LisaL Jun 2018 #6
obamanut2012 Jul 2018 #42
SunSeeker Jun 2018 #11
Jake Stern Jun 2018 #12
DeminPennswoods Jun 2018 #13
bucolic_frolic Jun 2018 #14
BumRushDaShow Jun 2018 #15
3Hotdogs Jun 2018 #16
Hekate Jun 2018 #22
maryellen99 Jun 2018 #23
Hekate Jun 2018 #24
obamanut2012 Jul 2018 #43
LisaL Jun 2018 #35
Hekate Jul 2018 #37
Oneironaut Jun 2018 #17
Kaleva Jun 2018 #20
get the red out Jun 2018 #27
metalbot Jun 2018 #30
LisaL Jun 2018 #36
obamanut2012 Jul 2018 #44
metalbot Jul 2018 #47
rocktivity Jun 2018 #18
irisblue Jun 2018 #19
McCamy Taylor Jun 2018 #25
lunasun Jun 2018 #29
McCamy Taylor Jul 2018 #40
Takket Jun 2018 #31
tammywammy Jun 2018 #28
Takket Jun 2018 #32
obamanut2012 Jul 2018 #41

Response to TalenaGor (Original post)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 12:23 AM

1. A tonsil operation that went wrong! How horrible!

Now she can finally rest.

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Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #1)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 02:22 AM

7. There was so much more to the story...

Last edited Fri Jun 29, 2018, 12:56 PM - Edit history (1)

The poor kid was very obese and had obstructive sleep apnea caused by the obesity. The tonsillectomy was part of an effort to relieve swelling in the throat and hence somewhat relieve the apnea.

While in the hospital recovering -- and here it gets very murky -- the girl's room was full of relatives, after medical personnel said she had to rest quietly and not eat any solid food. Suddenly, according to her mother, there was hemmorhaging and choking, and mom was trying to treat this by herself before calling the nurse. Which was bad enough, but somehow a big ol' hamburger enters the story, with a lot of denial it ever existed.

The rest is sad, sad history. She was dead, but as long as she was on life support a lot of people denied it -- her chest was rising and falling because of the pump -- and right to lifers got hold of the story... and she was taken out of the hospital which did not wish to keep the body in a state of slow decay.

What a mess. Rest in Peace, little girl.

ETA: Another news article last night reminded me how extensive the throat surgery was: tonsils, and adenoids were just the start. The docs did a lot of tissue-trimming to try to relieve her severe sleep apnea. So Jahi was supposed to rest and not talk -- and the room filled up with chatty relatives talking to her and each other. She was not supposed to eat solids, and -- did someone offer her a treat?

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Response to Hekate (Reply #7)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 02:28 AM

8. She was declared brain dead, which is legally dead in California.

So family took her to New Jersey where brain dead does not necessarily mean legally dead on religious grounds.
It takes a lot of work to maintain the heart beating after brain has died.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #8)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 02:44 AM

9. I know, hence my statement about the slow decay of the body...

Last edited Fri Jun 29, 2018, 12:49 PM - Edit history (1)

Eventually the cells outside the dead brain just refuse to regenerate -- which no doubt was the origin of Jahi's "intestinal issue."

Uck. I read about a similar case years ago. The mother kept tending the body, and would take it to the ER from time to time. One time the esophagus was clogged with dead cells, said the author of the other case.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #9)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 02:54 AM

10. I can't believe they were still doing surgery on her body, five years after she legally died, at

least in Ca.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #10)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 12:43 PM

21. That's why the family and the Right to Lifers moved her across the country

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Response to Hekate (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 30, 2018, 01:36 PM

33. I feel sorry for the girl, who was saddled with a "we know better" family

 

It’s amazing how these dumb fucks lived long enough to have kids.

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Response to TalenaGor (Original post)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 12:35 AM

2. Rest in peace, Jahi.



And my sincere condolences to her grieving family.

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Response to TalenaGor (Original post)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 12:43 AM

3. such a sad case. and fuck the lawyers and others who used this family to push their agenda

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Response to JI7 (Reply #3)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 12:50 AM

4. Also, fuck the Christian right.

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Response to Initech (Reply #4)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 01:39 PM

26. ALWAYS

There is no group I despise worse on Earth. I despise horrible groups like ISIS equally, but not more.

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Response to get the red out (Reply #26)

Sat Jun 30, 2018, 06:20 PM

34. ISIS and the evangelicals aren't even close to the same.

For starters, one of them burns people alive in cages and throws gay people off of buildings. One of them conquered cities by force and attempted genocide against a religious minority, while putting the women of that minority into sexual slavery. One of them had children execute people. One of them sawed the heads off of live prisoners.

I'm not defending the ideology of the evangelicals here, but to equate them to ISIS is frankly ludicrous. Get back to me when the Southern Baptists conquer a city and start executing people.

The evangelicals hold opinions and beliefs you don't like. ISIS committed multiple large-scale atrocities and crimes against humanity. They are not remotely comparable.

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #34)

Sun Jul 1, 2018, 04:01 AM

38. If they had complete control of this country

They wouldn't hesitate to do those things, IMO. What extremists do is in direct proportion to what they can get by with.

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Response to get the red out (Reply #38)

Sun Jul 1, 2018, 11:51 AM

39. I doubt it.

There's a long league of distance between saying shit like "homosexuality is immoral" and "let's throw gay people off of buildings!" There are definitely nutjobs among the evangelicals who will say things like "gay people should be killed." But those are the exception rather than the rule. The evangelicals I talk politics with say that gay marriage shouldn't be allowed. I've never once had them express a desire to commit wholesale murder or genocide.

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #39)

Sun Jul 1, 2018, 06:07 PM

45. Agree to disagree

Eric Robert Rudolph evaded apprehension for a long time because a good number of Christians in that area didn't have a problem with his choice in victims.

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Response to get the red out (Reply #45)

Sun Jul 1, 2018, 06:14 PM

46. Fair enough.

I hadn't heard that anyone sheltered him while they were hunting for him, though. Do you have a link, by chance? Were the people who helped him charged with anything? They definitely should have been if they helped him evade capture.

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Response to get the red out (Reply #48)

Mon Jul 2, 2018, 12:22 PM

49. Wow, that's wild.

They knew he murdered a lot of people and just... looked the other way? How can a person do that and still sleep at night?

Going back to our original topic, though, I didn't see much in there indicating that they didn't turn him in for religious reasons. The article made it sound more like a general mistrust of the federal government and law enforcement, like most areas with a "militia" type presence. And the pastor of the local church wasn't sheltering him in the rectory or anything like that.

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Response to TalenaGor (Original post)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 01:49 AM

5. Rest in peace Jahi.

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Response to TalenaGor (Original post)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 02:17 AM

6. She wasn't in vegetative state, she was officially declared brain dead.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #6)

Sun Jul 1, 2018, 05:53 PM

42. This -- she was DEAD

The corpse has been literally rotting for years -- they stopped posting pix or vids for their money grab a looooong time ago.

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Response to TalenaGor (Original post)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 03:40 AM

11. What they did with that poor dead girl's body for 5 years is a horror show. nt

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Response to TalenaGor (Original post)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 03:53 AM

12. The girl is finally free of that ghoul of a mother

What Nailah Winkfield did was beyond grotesque, it was obscene.

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Response to TalenaGor (Original post)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 06:32 AM

14. Excessive period of time

i can understand a coma, brain trauma, shock ... 5 years is a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time

a few weeks to a couple months would test my toleration for life-support, though a coroner's ruling could convince me very rapidly

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Response to TalenaGor (Original post)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 06:52 AM

15. Wow

This was almost 5 years ago. Hope this will bring some sort of closure.

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Response to TalenaGor (Original post)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 07:21 AM

16. Was this on taxpayer dime?

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Response to 3Hotdogs (Reply #16)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 12:47 PM

22. AFAIK, all donations once she was declared brain dead all those years ago

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Response to Hekate (Reply #22)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 12:57 PM

23. She spent it on fancy dinners and Michael Kors handbags nt

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Response to maryellen99 (Reply #23)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 01:00 PM

24. Having not followed the awful story, I have no idea

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Response to Hekate (Reply #24)

Sun Jul 1, 2018, 05:55 PM

43. She spent it on fancy dinners and MIchael Kors handbags

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Response to Hekate (Reply #22)

Sat Jun 30, 2018, 10:50 PM

35. Not so.

Family was able to get medicaid coverage since New Jersey considered her alive and not dead.
"When the family moved Jahi to New Jersey it was able to get free Medicaid healthcare coverage, because the state still recognized her as alive."
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/06/30/jahi-mcmath-death-could-have-costly-implications-in-civil-case-against-hospital-doctors/

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Response to LisaL (Reply #35)

Sun Jul 1, 2018, 03:38 AM

37. Ugh. At least it was not in California. nt

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Response to TalenaGor (Original post)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 08:47 AM

17. I can't even imagine how horrible this is for the parents. However,

this never should have been allowed. There was no medical evidence she was alive. This is what happens when religion gets involved with medical care - people are given false hope by God-botherers that think prayer works, and Jesus comes down to resurrect dead bodies. It’s insanity.

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Response to Oneironaut (Reply #17)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 12:16 PM

20. The mother may have been feeling a great deal of guilt and was grasping at straws.

What I've read but I've never seen confirmed and this is also mentioned in another post made by DUer Hekate in this thread is that the girl was fed a hamburger while she was recovering from her surgery and she began to choke and there was some delay in alerting medical staff as the mother tried to attend to her daughter herself.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #20)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 01:41 PM

27. That's my suspicion also

She probably had a hard time trying to face that what went on in the room after surgery played a part. I can't blame her for feeling like that, I wish the religious extremist hadn't gotten hold of her so that she could have processed all that somehow.

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Response to Oneironaut (Reply #17)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 06:48 PM

30. Religion aside, why should it not have been allowed?

Why should it NOT have been allowed?

If the girl was dead, and the parents wanted to pay (or find other people to pay) to keep her alive, what's the harm in that? You can't on the one hand say "she's dead and there's absolutely no hope" and "it's wrong to keep her alive, because she's suffering". I mean, it's a horrible waste of resources, but in general, we allow people to spend money on stupid wasteful things.

Now, the hospital that she was in was absolutely within their rights to say "she'd brain dead, and we're no longer willing to keep her alive". There would be no medical reason for any insurance company or government medical program to pay to keep her alive.

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Response to metalbot (Reply #30)

Sat Jun 30, 2018, 10:54 PM

36. Because there is a lot of expense to maintain a brain dead person on life support without any hope

of recovery? As New Jersey considered her alive, apparently medicaid was involved in paying for her care.

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Response to metalbot (Reply #30)

Sun Jul 1, 2018, 05:58 PM

44. Because the girl and her body have rights

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #44)

Sun Jul 1, 2018, 08:10 PM

47. That doesn't really seem to be true

What rights specifically do you think this girl had? The notion of a "right" is fairly well defined under US law, and as a general rule, people who are not born yet and people who are dead don't generally have rights. In fact, most pro-choice arguments go along the lines that a person who has not been born does not have rights, and it seems strange that we'd argue that once they've been born, but after they are dead, they somehow have rights.

I assume that you are arguing (given that we're in this branch of the thread) that the girl is legally dead. At that point, she has no rights. There are laws that restrict other people from doing things with dead people, but that's not the same as the dead person having rights. If her parents wanted to put her in a Lenin-style mausoleum, they could legally do so. The closest a dead person has to having "rights" is that if they have property, then there are certain rights relating to the property. In the case of a minor, this is a moot point. If you're arguing at some abstract level about "natural rights", then you are on grounds that are just as shaky as the parents' religious beliefs.

The parents exercised a choice to move their child to New Jersey. The post I'm responding to argues that "this should never have been allowed". The way that we as a society prevent people from doing things is to send guys with guns to make sure that people can't do a thing. That's how we generally enforce the law (though most people comply before the guys with guns get involved). When we talk about "allowed" and "not allowed", that argues that the state has a vested interest in using force to stop these parents from moving their child (child's body?) to New Jersey.

As an aside: I was on the opposite end of this for over ten years when I had a brother in a vegetative state after a car accident. Had it been legal for us to euthanize him, I'd have done so, and he was in vastly better shape than the girl in question. For me, this isn't about the morality of anyone's choices, but the specific _legal_ notion of "allowed" vs "not allowed" (though that distinction is sadly lost on many of the interesting topics here on DU).

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Response to TalenaGor (Original post)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 11:21 AM

18. The girl at center of debate over brain death has BEEN dead since December 2014

Last edited Thu Jan 6, 2022, 01:37 PM - Edit history (3)

if not sooner.

While all the courtroom drama was going on, the hospital called in four coroners and ended up with a signed death certificate retroactive to 2013. That's why she ended up in a house: what medical facility -- even in New Jersey -- is going to on record as accepting an "official" corpse as a patient?

What finally, uh, "died" out must have been the family's financial backing. They ought to be prosecuted for abuse of a corpse, and I hope New Jersey's new governor passes a law that recognizes brain deaths.


rocktivity

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Response to TalenaGor (Original post)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 11:54 AM

19. There were alot of threads on this here in '13.

Rest in peace Jahi

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Response to TalenaGor (Original post)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 01:27 PM

25. Obese children with this type of surgery should Be closely observed

By medical staff for their own protection. This is not the first case I know of involving an obese child who died after “concerned” family members fed the child solid food that they knew the child was not supposed to eat after OSA/tonsil surgery. Children with eating disorders get this way because someone in the family is over feeding them. It becomes a part of the family pathology to make sure that this child is never allowed to “go hungry.” These families can not make rational decisions. They are like the family members of drug addicts who will slip their loved ones the pills they “need.” I do not typically like to blame hospitals for harm people do to themselves, but the hospital owed it to this child to protect her from her family.

And yes, no doubt the family wanted to do “everything possible” because they were full of guilt. They should be.But The pediatricians should feel guilty too. They did not protect this child from her family.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #25)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 03:09 PM

29. And I have seen an obese adult child feed thier elder obese relative fastfood in a hospital when he

was not suppose to have any food.
I can not agree more with you it is like drug addicts and a generational family issue to look out for while providing care .
What I witnessed was the last part of a full circle of this disorder between them

Sad what happened to the girl, and in the end imo, it is the sicko fundies that supported "life" and financed this that takes it from sad to macabre

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Response to lunasun (Reply #29)

Sun Jul 1, 2018, 05:24 PM

40. Ah yes, fast food for the heart failure patient on salt restriction.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #25)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 09:29 PM

31. no offense but... have you ever been in a hospital?

people there are on all kinds of feeding restrictions and have visitors all the time, but the hospital does not sit there guarding the patient to make sure no one feeds them something they shouldn't (nor should they).

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Response to TalenaGor (Original post)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 02:33 PM

28. I hope the family gets some peace. n/t

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Response to TalenaGor (Original post)

Fri Jun 29, 2018, 09:31 PM

32. Hopefully her parents actually let her rest now

instead of insisting she's still alive in some other ghoulish abuse of her body.

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Response to TalenaGor (Original post)

Sun Jul 1, 2018, 05:48 PM

41. Actual meaning: her corpse finally rotted so much they couldn't continue

The charade and grifting.

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