Israeli filmmaker in hiding after anti-Islam movie sparks deadly Libya, Egypt protests
Source: AP via Haaretz
Israeli filmmaker in hiding after anti-Islam movie sparks deadly Libya, Egypt protests
Film by Sam Bacile, who self-identifies as an Israeli Jew, led to protests at the U.S. consulate in Libya and the U.S. Embassy in Cairo; one American staffer killed in clashes.
By The Associated Press
Sep.12, 2012 | 9:43 AM
An Israeli filmmaker went into hiding on Tuesday after his movie attacking Islam's Prophet Muhammad sparked angry assaults by Muslims on U.S. diplomatic missions in Egypt and in Libya, where one American was killed.
Speaking by phone from an undisclosed location, writer and director Sam Bacile remained defiant, saying Islam is a cancer and that he intended his film to be a provocative political statement condemning the religion.
Protesters angered over Bacile's film opened fire on and burned down the U.S.consulate in the eastern Libyan city of Benghazi, killing an American State Department officer on Tuesday. In Egypt, protesters scaled the walls of the U.S. embassy in Cairo and replaced an American flag with an Islamic banner.
Bacile, a California real estate developer in his fifties who identifies himself as an Israeli Jew, said he believes the movie will help his native land by exposing Islam's flaws to the world. "
Read more: http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/israeli-filmmaker-in-hiding-after-anti-islam-movie-sparks-deadly-libya-egypt-protests-1.464459
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Put a burning bag of dog shit on someone's porch, rang the doorbell, and ran away.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,683 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,349 posts)would be the reaction? A crazy inflaming the crazies, after all.
I do NOT condone the violence at all. Not for a second. But I am appalled by the stupidity - and bigotry - that runs too rampant in our society.
JustAnotherGen
(31,683 posts)On another thread - I posted that having watched the snippets of the crap on YouTube/clips posted to DU - it had zero artistic value.
You have a right to make drivel.
You have the right to speak drivel.
But you also have the responsibility to OWN your words. You know who OWN'S his words - Bill Maher. Maybe he oughta send this guy a copy of Religulous. Sounds like this man desperately needs to see it.
CBHagman
(16,968 posts)That is, I mean that it's dishonest for Bacile to say his prior actions up to now will achieve the objective he claims he wants.
JustAnotherGen
(31,683 posts)Response to BlueMTexpat (Reply #3)
bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.
goclark
(30,404 posts)to make the film?
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)Personally, I'm wondering if that's where some of Adelson's $100M to buy the presidency went.
Response to magical thyme (Reply #43)
bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.
LongTomH
(8,636 posts)I think this was calculated to stir up trouble just before the election. I'd also bet Adelson, et al have plans to keep this going until after the election.
Response to goclark (Reply #39)
bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.
They_Live
(3,222 posts)I immediately thought of Cheney (who suddenly appeared just the other day) and Rove.
What I also find curious is how the Embassy's security was penetrated right at the anniversary of 9/11. Wouldn't it be Standard Operating Procedure to beef up security at US Embassies around this date, especially in volatile regions?
I need to find more info about what actually transpired there. Is that info out there yet?
Response to They_Live (Reply #113)
bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)nt
aquart
(69,014 posts)Really, no faith can stand close scrutiny yet billions derive life-sustaining comfort from them.
Kindly Refrain
(423 posts)as a Christian born in Egypt. Not kidding. Willful obfuscation on FoxNews part?
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1834705699001/egyptian-protesters-scale-wall-of-us-embassy-in-cairo
Blue State Bandit
(2,122 posts)This should be fully investigated, and if possible, prosecuted.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)No matter how crappy they are.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)can we at least ban that?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)This movie is crap, but there ought to be lots of movies mocking Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Scientology, Mormonism, and on and on if people want to make them.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)if you intentionally incite violence and it results in death, you can be charged with manslaughter.
Bacile, the movie's writer and producer, has admitted he knew this would happen. He essentially intended it.
(as an aside, he goes on to blame inadequate security along with the killers. even though he intended to provoke them into killing, he takes no credit for his actions.)
Can he be legally charged with manslaughter? Because if he legally can, personally I believe he should be.
Freedom of speech does not come without license. His actions weren't that far from yelling "fire" in a crowded theater.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)He made a big FU to a religion that he doesn't like.
Is South Park inciting violence? They make fun of a variety of different religions on that show. Are they violating the rules of free speech? If an angry Mormon kills someone because they were upset by being attacked on the show, should Trey Parker go to jail for manslaughter?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)"We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen," Klein said.
Bacile's film was dubbed into Egyptian Arabic by someone he doesn't know, but he speaks enough Arabic to confirm that the translation is accurate. It was made in three months in the summer of 2011, with 59 actors and about 45 people behind the camera.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/12/sam-bacile-in-hiding_n_1876044.html
now perhaps you can explain why if the film was made over a year ago but after Obama oversaw the death of Osama Bin Lauden just why it was not released until 9/11/2012 during a Presidential campaign?
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)He expected it. It most certainly was his intention to provoke violence, based on his own words.
He knew that it would incite violence, and he wanted violent protests to demonstrate how Islam is "a cancer" on the world.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)Love those shows.
Love the movie.
How do the Southpark guys get away with it?
Probably because that other shit really was paid for and planned as a political trap.
Southpark is a lot more critical or religion including Islam. And it's entertaining.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)no matter what you do they will respond the only way they know how- violently.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)The filmmaker admits he deliberately intended the response he got. He deliberately provoked the nutcases, intending the violence and death.
He *thinks* he's proving that Muslims are "a cancer." He has only proven that religious nutcases are dangerously violent, and others paid for his little game with their lives.
He is as disgusting as the violent nuts are, as are his financial backers. More so, in fact.
The only difference between them and the nuts they provoked are that they live in comparative luxury courtesy of the US, his new country. A country which he just betrayed by deliberately provoking an international incident that has led to the untimely deaths of 4 of its citizens who were actually working to promote peace.
He is not only disgusting, he is a traitor. He deliberately used his freedom of speech to cause an international incident and death to American citizens working in service of their country.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)but face it, no matter what, they will pull shit. Sometimes they just do it because it is Wednesday. The movie is crap, but it is protected crap. Why should we change our laws to suit those dumbasses?
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)Freedom of speech is not freedom without license. It is illegal to yell fire in a crowded theater. It is illegal to make threats. What I'm wondering is, given the filmmakers statement that he knew this would provoke violent protest and he intended to demonstrate how Islam is "a cancer" on the world (via those protests), if his film does not cross the line into criminal activity.
And in the latest turn, it appears the embassy attack may have been an al qaeda operation using the protests as cover. In which case, he may well have been either willfully or witlessly aiding and abetting an al qaeda operation.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)Well they sure proved him wrong!
"Your religion is too violent"
I WILL FUCKING MURDER YOU FOR DENIGRATING MY FAITH!!!!!!!
dairydog91
(951 posts)Many of their followers, on the other hand, are entirely too fond of barbecuing, impaling, raping, eviscerating, shooting, torturing and slaughtering anyone who dares to insult the Invisible Sky Man Who Is All Powerful Yet Has A Very Touchy Ego.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)Thanks, I needed a good laugh.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)Religions are inherently violent. Even some of the most peaceful ones, Buddhism included have had their moments in hell. But for the most part, religion has incited violence through intolerance of other beliefs.
Followers on the other hand are inherently peaceful unless the religious clerics, teachers, priests, ministers, whatever, incite the violence of their holy books or the fundamentalism of their interpretation in their followers who for the most part are unable to speak or think for themselves. They are taught to be followers not thinkers.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)given that we have both had religion and war for our entire history I would say they aren't that peaceful.
They may claim to be but somehow there is always an exception.
Thou shalt not murder . . . unless that guy isn't a member of your faith.
Thou shalt not steal . . . unless to support your crusade.
Thou shalt not rape . . . unless you want to.
Frances
(8,531 posts)and to create just the kind of reaction in the MIddle EAst that occurred?
I think people like the film maker and Netannayu (sp?) want to do everything they can to get the George W Bush neo cons back in office. They won't be satisfied until the US uses nuclear weapons against Iran.
frylock
(34,825 posts)godai
(2,902 posts)September/October surprises? First Bibi, then this. There's a 14 min trailer out there and it's so poorly made that it seems like a joke video. Completely insulting and intended to be. The idiot who made this should be prosecuted in the Ambassador's death.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)People should be allowed to make movies mocking any religion they want.
aquart
(69,014 posts)They want so much to believe it wasn't done by their own.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Last edited Wed Sep 12, 2012, 03:54 PM - Edit history (1)
"We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen," Klein said.
Bacile's film was dubbed into Egyptian Arabic by someone he doesn't know, but he speaks enough Arabic to confirm that the translation is accurate. It was made in three months in the summer of 2011, with 59 actors and about 45 people behind the camera.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/12/sam-bacile-in-hiding_n_1876044.html
and as I pointed out to another poster doesn't the timing of all this strike anyone as 'strange'
frylock
(34,825 posts)i hope he's in hiding for the rest of his miserable life.
Submariner
(12,485 posts)and may he not have to look over his shoulder for long.
Iggo
(47,489 posts)I'm sure they'll understand.
northoftheborder
(7,566 posts)flpoljunkie
(26,184 posts)magic59
(429 posts)First, a republican makes a movie for the purpose of inciting violence in the Mideast THEN mitt & elephant ears trample over dead Americans using this violence to garner more votes.
The Stranger
(11,297 posts)Anthony McCarthy
(507 posts)If he's not an American who is getting our ambassadors killed by obviously trying to incite violence, deport him. It should be easy enough to find some grounds. We've got enough citizens who are doing that kind of thing, we don't need to import them to do it.
Berlum
(7,044 posts)throw a huge stink bomb into the room, and then run and hide in your occultist basement cesspool. He may be Israeli, but he has the soula nd values of a Republican.
Lionessa
(3,894 posts)So yes Islam is a cancer, but so is Judaism, Catholicism, Mormonism, and any religion that feels its tenants should override any one person's personal choices to liberty, freedom, and personal values.
Too bad this filmmaker only sees the damage caused by a religion he opposes instead of the overall effect of all religions now and in the past.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)The killing supposedly in reaction to the movie is the crime here.
Lionessa
(3,894 posts)Seems Religulous didn't stir Islamic extremism because it didn't just mock one religion in an attempt to suggest it is worse than Judaism or other Jewish/Israeli supporting religions.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)That appears to be the red line.
boomerbust
(2,181 posts)Romney's beach house in California.
ulaes
(31 posts)You guys would turn Salman Rushdie in.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)He's probably already hard at work on the sequel...
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)ANOTHER asshole.
Un-freak'n-believable that this whack job, who was going do the "burn a Koran" day, stirred the pot too.
And then, you have Mittens, gett'n himself smack dab in the middle too...Mr. "Foreign Policy Experience" from hiding out in
Paris, in a palace no less, during Vietnam.
I'm SO mad!
geomon666
(7,512 posts)"Sam Bacile remained defiant, saying Islam is a cancer and that he intended his film to be a provocative political statement condemning the religion."
Good job, fuckwit.
alfredo
(60,065 posts)defacto7
(13,485 posts)But what is wrong with death for the sake of eternal life??
alfredo
(60,065 posts)alfredo
(60,065 posts)his hands, and on the hands of the 100 donors.
Response to flpoljunkie (Original post)
jtuck004 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Rabid_Rabbit
(131 posts)this incident proves his point.
If somebody accuses me of being a violent drunk I don't grab a beer and beat the crap out of him in an attempt to prove him wrong.
It is time the world condemns this kind of behaviors instead of making excuses.
The fact that we are even discussing limiting somebody's speech because it might hurt somebody's feelings is hugely disappointing.
iamthebandfanman
(8,127 posts)they just want people to use some god damn common sense.
dont act like he was ignorant about the repercussions...
good for him, he got them to kill people.
congrats?
what a hell of a way to prove your point, by getting people killed.
theirs no excuse for that.
he deserves anything he gets.
remember, christians kill people too sometimes... so lets remember that the next time you wanna say 'its their religion not his free speech'
iamthebandfanman
(8,127 posts)make a piece of work YOU KNOW is going to stir anger... let OTHER PEOPLE DIE FOR IT... then run like a coward.
sorry, but after this move... i feel like he deserves what he gets.
i see lots of right wingers screaming 'blame the religion not the film-maker'...
well thatd be acceptable IF THE ASSHOLE DIDNT KNOW WHAT HE WAS DOING!!!
I just hope they remember their mantra the next time a Christian hurts someone.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)"We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen," Klein said."
Here.
Not one cent of taxpayer money, and that includes local police, needs to be spent on security for people who deliberately inflame and disrespect others.
Too bad he didn't have the guts to make the movie in his own country. Coward.
allan01
(1,950 posts)"i cant stand stupidity for stupiditys sake and fear for fears sake . klatoo " the day the earth stood still. ( 1950s version , not the horrible remake ) gee lets start ww3 and the armageddon as we speak .
matt819
(10,749 posts)I'll bet that once you scratch the surface on this debacle you'll find an awful lot of Republicans behind it.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Any filmmaker should be allowed to make a movie making fun of any religion.
In fact, there ought to be more of that sort of thing (and more artfully done).
Reacting to a movie by killing innocent people is deranged.
iamthebandfanman
(8,127 posts)i dont either side is innocent in this.
i think its silly for you to try and proclaim a morally righteous victor from this..
nobody doubts his right to say whatever he wants,
but we have the right just as well to call him a moron who clearly doesnt have the common sense or rational thinking that even a Goose has (sorry for disrespecting my goose brothers and sisters).
i mean come on?
its one thing to knowingly do something to cause a reaction, but to run and hide after you get what you want?
i mean, please.
this person just wanted to start a fire but had no intention or want to put it out.
nobody is saying their reaction was justified. what they are saying is that he knew the risk he was taking, and thats fine if its him who has to take that risk.. but his work got people killed and his reaction is to hide? REALLY????
what a coward.
I mean, lets think about this rationally for a minute .. can we ?
Lets say...
You have a bee nest in your back yard. Your friend comes over to hang out. You say, "Hey, stay away from that bee nest... if you disturb them theyll attack!'. he doesnt believe you. Do you :
A) go get as much information about bees and nest as you can and show your friend
OR
B) hit the nest with a giant stick.
Its really that simple. the guys a moron, free speech or not.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)But killing innocent people (or anyone) because you are "offended" by the content of a movie is despicable.
People should be free to mock religion in whatever way they choose.
And others should be free to find offense and speak out strongly.
But in this instance the crime is the killing.
Movies don't kill people.
julian09
(1,435 posts)provocation to some and people react differently to provocation. This was stirred not only by the Israeli filmmaker but the christian preacher in Florida, making the incident more despicable. Muslims have shown that they will not tolerate ridicule of their faith in several past instances. They have different values than we do, we have the right to free speech, they have the right to exact revenge.
He has the right to free speech, but not the right to speak for the US. He should be shipped back to Israel at the very least.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)Nothing personal, but as an example - It would be ok for me to make a movie about your sister, ridiculing her for how she practices her religion, or lack of it?
Because (Have you watched any of it? I have) this is about people next door to you and ridiculing them for how they practice their religion. It is very personal, and up to date. It is actors, people in this country it sounds like, portraying the most vile and disgusting acts these people can bend that religion around, at least in their view. And they look like the people who live in apartment 2b.
It ain't a cartoon Flying Spaghetti Western.
Old white guys saying "Burn out these forsaken Christians"?
This isn't free speech. It is hate speech, designed to inflame the very reaction it got.
If one really believe's that such a thing shouldn't be expected to incite killing, think about trying to show "Birth of a Nation" in South LA. We would expect more than higher popcorn sales, eh?
Are the people deranged, or just disrespected so badly that the rules which people of a different skin color (religion, country, wealth, whatever) forced on them no longer apply?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)They have a lot of stuff on those programs that are potentially very offensive to large numbers of people, including mocking various religions.
Is that incitement?
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)and tell me if you think 14 minutes of hate speech rises to the level of South Park.
Of course either is incitement, that's their intention. But generically mocking religions is far different than picturing your neighbors on the tv committing the worst acts- and please, let me stress - ACTING - to deliberately paint THE PEOPLE as dirty, filthy, dangerous.
One is satire. The other is hate speech. Both provocative, but one strikes far deeper than the other.
There is a real problem here, however. We are being led down a path with an assumption that Muslims must have easy access to rockets, and they just jump up and spontaneously, (because they see ALL of them as terrorists), act in ways that hurt others. In reality most terrorist are far more calculating, and it's highly unlikely that this movie would cause them to be MORE revolutionary than they already are. Which leaves us with ordinary people who are Muslim, who we must then believe have rockets sitting around to grab in a moment of passion.
The reports coming out indicate that this was not the case, that it was a planned raid, in stages, with discipline and timing to do certain tasks. That would indicate that there was an element of planning, maybe military involvement. Now we are sending drones to scout supposed terrorist camps. More accidental civilian deaths coming up.
Who, then, profits from this? Not just in money, but would someone who hopes that a world conflict which would result in total destruction that could hasten the "second coming" do this? Would a political group that wants a shooting war to start between Muslims and the West start with this, hoping that enough of this will result in a shooting war between Muslims and the West? If you read some of the doctrine of these churches and political groups, it is quite clear those are their beliefs.
Rabid_Rabbit
(131 posts)the rule to not form a mob and run around killing people that are/look different because you had your feelings hurt should really be part of any civilized society.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)Or by the thousands of Iraqis we buried alive with bulldozers or shot in the back, under our President's order, while they were fleeing and surrendering? Or the innocent kids and adults we kill with our drones on a regular basis, all in the name of killing an idea? What kind of civilizing effect is there in our current austerity programs allowing millions to fall into poverty, enabling corporations to replace millions of middle-wage jobs with jobs that swell the ranks of the working poor and lead to the early death of many, and increasing the number (and the profit made by JP Morgan) of the people on a pittance of food stamps, while we support the lifestyles and immoral behavior of Mi$$ Rmoney and Jamie Dimon by keeping their assets inflated so the benefits will trickle down?
That kind of civilize? Yes, we have the moral high ground...
Rabid_Rabbit
(131 posts)Do you believe that forming an angry mob and killing people because your feelings got hurt is part of civilized society?
It was a rhetorical question actually, not expecting anybody to argue the point.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)I think minimizing the damage we do to people, then feigning ignorance with a remark like "feelings got hurt" simply shows the arrogance of American thinking. Same level of response that Rmoney put out.
No, I'm not a pacifist, and yes, I do think people can disrespect you enough that you are justified in destroying them, especially if they precede that with screwing around with your country, economy, culture, life or morals for their own amusement or profit.
No, mobs shouldn't form (or spouses get angry) and hurt people at some perceived slight. But that raid wan't that, it was planned and executed, using that video as a pretext. Heck, it might even be a publicity stunt by the people involved in producing it, who appear to really want a shooting war. This isn't the first effort for some of them, btw. They are learning better how to push buttons.
I do think nations should learn to respect others, or quit whining about getting hurt.
Rabid_Rabbit
(131 posts)but I am not American, so your attempts at painting with a broad brush have failed.
Just so I understand you, mobs killing people = bad, organized attacks killing people = ok
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Like his ally Pastor Jones, Bacile made the video with the intent of achieving the results he got. It is obviously designed to set off violence, which he (and you) seem to think proves a point about Muslims in general. He has the right to make any vile hate propaganda he likes, and thus to set off a violent and disgusting but predictable reaction, but he's no fighter for artistic freedom. He's a warrior for anti-Muslim hatred.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I don't know how you can say for certain that his goal was to set off violence. I think his goal was to give a big FU to a religion he doesn't like. There are lots of films, tv shows, plays, books that do that sort of thing to various religions (much more artfully, of course).
The thing is - making a movie doesn't kill anyone. Killing someone in response to a movie is the problem here.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)violence under the heading of free speech, but more over a movie that *cough* just by some serendipity just happened to get put out to the public on September 11 during a Presidential campaign wherein the Democrat candidate just happened to be the one who killed the mastermind of 9/11/2001 by people who might well be supporting his Republican opponent
but just I guess that free speech trumps all
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)No one wants to take away his right to produce hate films, and certainly these hate films do not justify violent response. Those who commit violence because of such a thing are wrong. Nevertheless, you are surely not as naive as you put on. The maker of this film knew what was likely to happen after the experiences with Jones, the Koran "flushings," and the Danish cartoon contest. That doesn't make it right, but people are now aware that they can inspire violence in a certain section of the Islamic world by committing sacrilege on video. There's no other explanation for the animal scenes - it's the effect he hoped to create. He succeeded, getting confirmation for his "Muslims are animals" message in the West. Furthermore, inspiring such reactions serves to justify the constant Western state violence on Muslim countries (even though it doesn't, actually). In context, Israel is currently pushing the US to start a war of aggression - possibly a world war - against Iran. Just as we know a certain number of Muslims will riot and murder other people on the rumor of blasphemy, so too will many in the American public not bother to recognize the difference between Muslims, Arabs, Persians, Sunni or Shia when the bombs fall on Tehran. This asshole is hoping to create an atmosphere that justifies more violence by the West.
totodeinhere
(13,037 posts)They would have come off looking much better if they had remained calm. But now the producers of this movie have got exactly what they want.
AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)We all knew what the response was going to be when this hit the Mideast. It was like poking a rabid dog with a stick. There is no reason to do it, and it is guaranteed to end very badly.
Terry Jones wants nothing more than to start World War III so that Jesus can come back and cart off his followers to heaven that much sooner, and will use anyone and anything to achieve that end. He will then conveniently (and insultingly) hide behind the "freedom of speech" excuse when the shitstorm goes down. The very definition of a coward.
Jones and the person who made this film are just as deranged and responsible for what happened as the Libyan mob. It was a calculated, diabolical act.
I know we disagree on this, but I can't advocate using freedom of speech carte blanche with a total disregard for what will most likely happen as a result, especially when that result is a 99.99% certainty.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)The problem is in the people who acted violently. They have a problem.
Whose to say that a Mormon won't be so offended by South Park making fun of their faith that they wouldn't act violently?
whathehell
(28,969 posts)Romney, Sheldon Adelson, Netanyahu, and any number of NeoCons, Jewish and otherwise, are
pushing for war with Iran.
sinkingfeeling
(51,279 posts)wrote it to reflect what I really think about them, they would resort to killing people as well (and they already have murdered their fellow Americans in their worship of the embryo).
cali
(114,904 posts)anymore than anyone was murdered over "Piss Christ"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ
sinkingfeeling
(51,279 posts)those extremists?
cali
(114,904 posts)murdering people if a similar movie were made about Christianity, but as a matter of fact, 4 doctors who performed abortions have been murdered in this country over a 20 year period. That's four too many obviously and it neglects the other 4 people killed in clinic violence over the same period, but it simply isn't dozens or hundreds of abortion clinic related deaths or injuries.
You really should stop digging.
sinkingfeeling
(51,279 posts)commit violence and murder as extremists in any other country or religion.
whathehell
(28,969 posts)Please get a grip on the false equivalence.
sinkingfeeling
(51,279 posts)whathehell
(28,969 posts)in this country, and no one is known to have been killed over it.
Have some been killed for practicing abortion?..Yes, and that's wrong
and those people have been prosecuted, but practicing abortion
is not filmmaking.
sinkingfeeling
(51,279 posts)the reaction of extremist 'christians' would be the same. I also remember death threats and a fire bombing after 'The Last Temptation of Christ' came out. And how many abortion clinics and mosques have received threats and been bombed?
A religious extremist is a religious extremist no matter what god they pray to.
whathehell
(28,969 posts)I disagree with your assumption regarding equivalent reactions from extremist christians. Period.
sinkingfeeling
(51,279 posts)christians over history. There have been no bombings/deaths in Northern Ireland over something that happened 400 years ago. No death threats were made to the producer of 'Dogma' or 'The Last Temptation of Christ', no abortion clinics have been bombed, no Army of God, and no crazy 'christian' cults.
whathehell
(28,969 posts)Three of the greatest mass murderers of the 20th Century...All killed
in the name of political ideologies that had NOTHING to do with religion.
You need to do a little more research, and you might want to start with
Northern Ireland. Anyone who knows anything about that conflict knows it
was political not religious.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)And if anyone kills anyone else as a result, they have problems.
naaman fletcher
(7,362 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)No on has stated the filmmaker is not allowed to make a movie making fun of religion.
That being said, common sense tells us we are not immune to the consequences of the things we say, regardless of whether those consequences are just or not.
Any person should is legally allowed to stand in the middle their front yard and begin yelling "niggers and spics need to leave America..." for the sake of inflaming social constructs, and call it art, but I'd hazard that the consequences of those statements, whether just or not, will be swift and dramatic... and more importantly, avoidable in the first place.
The naivety of thinking otherwise is what has me puzzled and scratching my head.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)In fact, before this controversy, almost no one did.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,272 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Hopefully no one else gets killed, including the filmmaker.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)brentspeak
(18,290 posts)Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)The Stranger
(11,297 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Silvernaire
(13 posts)The Israeli filmmaker will act as catalyst and speed up the Israel's Bombing of Iran.
catbyte
(34,174 posts)before releasing that. I am all for freedom of expression and all that, but some Muslims have absolutely no sense of humor.
bpj62
(997 posts)I will support anyones right to to free speech and freedom of expression but this crosses the line. This is akin to yelling fire in a crowded movie house and since he is an American who the hell do you think the radicals clerics are going to tell their followers to attack. The U.S. has so many interests in countries that are dominated my the muslim faith and this jerk just put them all at risk. I do not condone the violence at all and I hope that cooler heads can prevail in the middle east.
This guy knew exactly what he was doing and I think the U.S. Government needs to follow the money and expose these people for who they are. Four Americans died because of this film and that is four families who lost a father, brother,son, mother, sister, daughter, or a husband or wife. Words have consequences and this bears that statement out.
johnnyplankton
(350 posts)(Undisclosed Location) An anti-muslim film created by a man who calls himself Sam Bacile has caused riots in Libya and Egypt and is being blamed for a rocket attack that killed the U.S. Ambassador to Egypt.
Mr. Baciles identity is unknown. Fishington Cheesington post has been unable to find any mention of the putative real estate developer on Internet sources such as Google.com, Pipl.com or Intelius.com before the crisis unfolded.
But after reviewing the film, we understand why. It is undoubtedly the shittiest $5 million dollar film to ever start a World War.
>>Funny stuff. But also funny that filmmaker and real estate developer had zero presence on Google prior to the crisis and is not in Pipl.com or Intelius.com. Who is he? Does he even exist? Enquiring minds want to know.
totodeinhere
(13,037 posts)The last time I checked there were violent riots and some Americans were tragically killed. But a word war? I don't see any missiles being exchanged between Russia and the USA. Come on.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)These right wings truly want destruction of the world huh.
marshall
(6,661 posts)They're all getting what they want.
Rabid_Rabbit
(131 posts)that people that have a different opinion face violence?
Somebody that draws a cartoon should be prepared to spend the rest of his life in fear? That this is happening is an absolute failure of society by bowing and surrendering to the most violent and extreme elements.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)I wonder if he thinks it was worth it. He is a marked man, just like Rushdie.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)sinkingfeeling
(51,279 posts)totodeinhere
(13,037 posts)some other reason to deport him such as if he is in this country illegally, but he has the legal right to produce that movie and he couldn't be deported over it.
JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)He is right to hide, he's due for a reckoning.
Julie
rwsanders
(2,585 posts)Maybe she'd go into hiding.
Blue Meany
(1,947 posts)and it is not likely that "Bacile" is Israeli. He is probably Egyptian (he confirmed that he has relatives in Egypt). Most of the connections point to Morris Sadek, an anti-Muslim Copt living in southern California, or someone in his circle.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)This jerk is a lying piece of slime off a dingleberry
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,788 posts)Response to flpoljunkie (Original post)
Post removed
parazito86
(9 posts)nlof
(5 posts)A closer inspection of Sam Bacile shows that he writes in arabic in his youtube comments. On Google+ he is in the circle of محمد حامد الشربيني? (Mohamed Hamed El-Sherbini). Sam is probably neither Jewish nor Israeli and since he claims he has relatives in Egypt he is most likely a disgruntled Egyptian.
polichick
(37,152 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)Melinda
(5,465 posts)Nakoula Basseley Nakoula & 'Innocence Of Muslims': Man Admits Role In Anti-Islam Movie
LOS ANGELES The anti-Muslim film implicated in mob protests against U.S. diplomatic missions in the Mideast received logistical help from a man once convicted of financial crimes and featured actors who complained that their inflammatory dialogue was dubbed in after filming.
The self-proclaimed director of "Innocence of Muslims" initially claimed a Jewish and Israeli background. But others involved in the film said his statements were contrived as evidence mounted that the film's key player was a southern Californian Coptic Christian with a checkered past.
More:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/13/nakoula-basseley-nakoula-innocence-of-muslims-anti-islam-movie_n_1880175.html?utm_hp_ref=entertainment
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This thread is sad. Knee jerk responses and assumptions about a non-existent person? Shades of Mittens.
Good grief.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Even though that turned out to be BS.
Great job reporting!
panzerfaust
(2,818 posts)Christians giving to heretics the Peace of Christ.
flpoljunkie
(26,184 posts)ERIC LACH 5:55 PM EDT, FRIDAY SEPTEMBER 14, 2012
The Associated Press has issued a correction to address a story from earlier this week that identified a "Sam Bacile" as the director of "Innocence of Muslims," the film being blamed for recent violence and demonstrations in several Middle Eastern countries. From the AP:
In a Sept. 12 story about a film that sparked deadly protests in Libya and Egypt, The Associated Press quoted a man who identified himself in several phone conversations as Sam Bacile, and who said he wrote and directed the film. The AP story quoted him saying he was an Israeli Jew.
In later reporting, the AP was unable to find any public records confirming the existence of a person with that name.
The AP subsequently reported that Nakoula Basseley Nakoula was the key figure behind the film.
The Wall Street Journal, which also interviewed a man who claimed to be Bacile, had previously added the following correction to its own story:
An earlier version of this article included claims by the person who identified himself as Sam Bacile that he is an Israeli-American and that he raised $5 million from about 100 Jewish donors to fund the film. Those claims weren't confirmed and should not have been included in the article. In addition, the article has been updated to note that the name used by the person appears to be a pseudonym, based on subsequent reporting.
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/associated-press-issues-correction-about-anti-muslim-filmmaker