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Sun Feb 24, 2019, 04:52 PM

 

Venezuela Opposition Calls for Consideration of Force Against Regime

Source: Wall Street Journal

Venezuela's opposition leaders called on the international community to consider the use of force against President Nicols Maduro's regime after an ambitious effort to deliver humanitarian aid into the crisis-stricken country descended into violence.

Julio Borges, a leading member of the opposition coalition, on Sunday said proposals for increased action against Mr. Maduro would be made during a meeting in Colombia's capital Bogota on Monday.

Opposition leader Juan Guaid, recognized as Venezuela's rightful president by more than 50 countries, including the U.S., will participate in the meeting with U.S. Vice President Mike Pence and regional diplomats.

"We are going to demand an escalation in diplomatic pressure and the use of force against the dictatorship of Nicols Maduro," said Mr. Borges, who is the opposition's representative to the Lima Group, a coalition of Latin American nations and Canada who oppose Mr. Maduro.

Read more: https://www.wsj.com/articles/venezuela-opposition-calls-for-consideration-of-force-against-regime-11551040222



Let's see if Trump is for real about being a peace- loving solationist.

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Reply Venezuela Opposition Calls for Consideration of Force Against Regime (Original post)
Yosemito Feb 2019 OP
PupCamo Feb 2019 #1
allgood33 Feb 2019 #30
Jake Stern Feb 2019 #2
Perseus Feb 2019 #3
Jake Stern Feb 2019 #4
Judi Lynn Feb 2019 #5
GatoGordo Feb 2019 #11
Judi Lynn Feb 2019 #13
GatoGordo Feb 2019 #14
Judi Lynn Feb 2019 #16
GatoGordo Feb 2019 #21
MRubio Feb 2019 #23
Ghost Dog Feb 2019 #31
GatoGordo Feb 2019 #37
Ghost Dog Feb 2019 #38
MRubio Feb 2019 #39
Ghost Dog Feb 2019 #41
MRubio Feb 2019 #42
Ghost Dog Feb 2019 #44
Marengo Feb 2019 #29
MRubio Feb 2019 #40
JonLP24 Feb 2019 #50
Perseus Feb 2019 #18
juxtaposed Feb 2019 #6
EX500rider Feb 2019 #7
Jake Stern Feb 2019 #8
EX500rider Feb 2019 #10
JonLP24 Feb 2019 #49
EX500rider Feb 2019 #51
JonLP24 Feb 2019 #52
Perseus Feb 2019 #19
Ghost Dog Feb 2019 #33
Jake Stern Feb 2019 #9
GatoGordo Feb 2019 #15
GatoGordo Feb 2019 #12
Devil Child Feb 2019 #25
JonLP24 Feb 2019 #48
Sgent Feb 2019 #17
Perseus Feb 2019 #20
GatoGordo Feb 2019 #22
MRubio Feb 2019 #24
Devil Child Feb 2019 #26
GatoGordo Feb 2019 #27
Devil Child Feb 2019 #28
EX500rider Feb 2019 #32
Devil Child Feb 2019 #34
EX500rider Feb 2019 #46
Ghost Dog Feb 2019 #35
yurbud Feb 2019 #36
MRubio Feb 2019 #43
Cold War Spook Feb 2019 #45
GatoGordo Feb 2019 #47

Response to Yosemito (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2019, 05:29 PM

1. we could have Don Jr leading the troops

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Response to PupCamo (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 02:55 PM

30. Calling for bombing the "brown" people. Nothing ever changes with the allies we pick.

 

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Response to Yosemito (Original post)

Sun Feb 24, 2019, 05:54 PM

2. No.

This is how we get ourselves into quagmires where we have to stay for the next 2 decades.

We laugh at their stupid propaganda videos but keep in mind we also laughed at the Somali rebels before they managed to make us turn tail and run.

Any, and I mean ANY, Dem who supports military action against Maduro has lost my vote.

Stay out of their affairs and worry about what's happening here.

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Response to Jake Stern (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 24, 2019, 07:04 PM

3. Have you done any research on the situation in Venezuela?

 

Have you talked to any Venezuelans to find out if they want the intervention or not? Did you know that Venezuela's regime is a kleptocracy that has ruined the country? Do you know that the Venezuelan people cannot buy food in supermarkets, medicines, or hospitals don't even have sheets? That most of the best doctors have left the country? That Venezuela is a very strategic region for the USA, South America, Europe? That Putin wants to put his hands in Venezuela? That Cuba has been the one ruling in Venezuela?

Also, USA helped government change in Venezuela in 1958, which to me was a mistake because although the president at the time was a dictator, he cared about his country, and the best things you find in Venezuela up to today, were built by him. He was a rarity of a dictator, he was good for the country, and as long as you didn't try to oppose him, your lived a very free and prosperous life. The USA was responsible for taking Perez Jimenez out, and the USA did not stay, it did not create a quagmire, the quagmire exists today with that regime.

Yesterday alone, they injured over 200 innocent people, killed 32 just because the wanted the food and medicines to come into the country, while Maduro was dancing at a plaza...

Please do some research and I think you will find out that the intervention from a coalition is the right thing for Venezuela, and the World.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 24, 2019, 07:18 PM

4. Fine let South American nations deal with it

The USA needs to stay OUT of other people's affairs.

To reiterate any DEM who supports another military intervention adventure loses my vote.

What the fuck is it with Americans and the need to insert ourselves abroad?

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Response to Perseus (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 24, 2019, 07:38 PM

5. The US "helped" government change in Venezuela in 1958? Why did they riot against Nixon in 1958?

Why did they surround the US Vice-President's car in Caracas, and riot so convincingly photos were splashed all over US magazines across the country in 1958? It would be important to hear your version of this event.

Here are some photos:













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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 24, 2019, 10:32 PM

11. Fact: There is no mainstream right wing party

 

in Venezuela. If you can find one, please fill us in.

The previous regime was surprisingly leftist.

The apologists for Chavismo are enamored with Marxism.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #11)

Sun Feb 24, 2019, 10:42 PM

13. Can't imagine what you're trying to say. My post has nothing to do with yours. n/t

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #13)

Sun Feb 24, 2019, 11:17 PM

14. Of course! To disagree with you

 

Means we are incapable of cogent thought, delusional or uninformed!

The COPEI and adecos are progressive. But because they are/were not Marxists, the are/were "right wing"?

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #14)

Sun Feb 24, 2019, 11:43 PM

16. You aren't reading the post to which you responded. Breathe. n/t

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #16)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 10:01 AM

21. You don't understand analogy and are incapable of extrapolation

 

The opposition to the military junta in your timeline (above) is the same vile opposition to Chavismo that you so fear now. But because they don't have their tongue up the *** of Karl Marx, they are to be feared?

PLEASE name ONE mainstream right-wing political party in Venezuela.

JUST ONE.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #21)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 10:51 AM

23. PLEASE name ONE mainstream right-wing political party in Venezuela.

She can't because she knows nothing about Venezuela. I've tried to explain to her before that Venezuela's "extreme right" as they're called by Maduro, would be considered well left-of-center in US politics. I had better luck explaining algebra to my dogs.

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Response to MRubio (Reply #23)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 03:12 PM

31. I find it quite difficult to imagine any firm political positions

 

to the right of mainstream US politics, except perhaps on what are described as 'identity issues'.

Edit: Do you find the analysis here to be accurate, may I ask? - https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/14349

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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #31)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 06:18 PM

37. VenezuelaAnalysis is one of the English language mouthpieces of Chavismo

 

TeleSewer (TeleSur English) and their Russian counterparts RussiaToday and Sputnik all trade stories/analysis that interest those outside of Venezuela. You could also include Mision Verdad, another Chavista outlet of information. Mision Verdad, TeleSewer and VenezuelaAnalysis are all paid for by the Maduro regime. They join many of the regime news outlets inside Venezuela such as VTV.

Any information on these outlets is going to have the official government sanctioned spin. (See below.)

(I don't trust the information/analysis that comes out of the MaduroLand.)

http://vtv.gob.ve/tag/fake-news/

If you want to read ANYTHING about Venezuela from the Chavista viewpoint that isn't sanctioned by the Maduro regime, then Aporrea.org is your best bet. 2/3 of the writers there still are betting on Maduro, but 100% are dyed in the wool Chavistas. They want Maduro gone, but want him replaced with a new improved version of Chavez.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #37)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 06:37 PM

38. Thanks for that.

 

In English, I observe international commentary and propaganda. Otherwise I follow in Spanish, gracias.

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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #31)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 07:05 PM

39. Your venezuelanalysis.com article

Here's what I've observed in my almost 2 decades living and working in rural Venezuela.

Most Venezuelans, due to the country's great riches, believe in a free lunch. They've been sold that concept for many generations (long before Chavez came on the scene) and for most, it's all they know.

From the article you linked:

"Is that because the majority of Venezuelans are socialists? Unfortunately, there is only a small minority – and almost nobody in the armed forces – that believes in socialism these days."

WRONG. Most Venezuelans believe in, and embrace, the concept of socialism. They believe, and rightfully so, that Maduro is a miserable failure as an administrator but still believe that Chavez' 21st Century Socialism could work if only it was done "right".

The armed forces, most certainly at the lower levels, reflect the general public's view. Maduro, in order to maintain power, realized years ago that he needed the military and turned over to the Armed Forces most every function that a socialist government would normally manage......importation & distribution of food and the running of the country's oil industry, just to name a couple. Via these enterprises, the top generals in the military are able to become fabulously wealthy, far more wealthy than they'd otherwise have been under the "old" system, and for that they've given their allegience to Maduro. Illicit drug trade is another area where the military plays a key role and profits greatly.

Another comment from the linked article:

"In fact, the unknown quality that keeps people loyal to the Chavista project is a certain form of patriotism or nationalism. It’s a nationalism closely connected to a comprehension of Venezuela’s historical struggle for emancipation in an unequal global order."

I don't deny that patriotism plays a role in today's Venezuela, but most Venezuelans today don't give a flip about history or some silly struggle for emancipation. To me, that's complete bullshit. Most Venezuelans are busy trying to figure out where that next meal will come from and if it's this government that gives it to them, then fine, they'll "support" it......including with their vote.

When this government falls, they'll look to the next to pick up where this one left off.

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Response to MRubio (Reply #39)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 07:22 PM

41. Thank you. This is helpful.

 

Clearly, Venezuela's human and resource-wealth needs to be mobilised to develop a productive real economy in all sectors, for all stakeholders. Investment in public health and education, while essential, is not by itself sufficient.

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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #41)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 07:55 PM

42. NOW you're talking!

This country's economy has been absolutely wrecked at all levels, and it started with Chavez and was completed by Maduro. Some say it was all part of the socialist plan from the beginning. Dunno. I think it was a belief that government could do it better than the private sector coupled with corruption and smothered with incompetence of biblical proportions.

My interest is agriculture thought that's not what brought me here originally. I can honestly say that this past year, this area might have planted 5% of the corn crop that's normally planted, and was planted not more than 4 or 5 years ago. The agricultural sector, like so many others, was gutted and destroyed by chavismo and replaced with imports. Those imports have now been declining for years due to falling oil prices, declining oil production, corruption, and outright theft of the country's treasure by those who run the place.

Farms and ranches are under seige right now with everything being stolen, down to the barbed wire fences and the staples used to hold them in place.

All that taking place while hunger and inflation are sky-rocketing means we have the crisis we have today.



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Response to MRubio (Reply #42)

Tue Feb 26, 2019, 03:35 AM

44. Agreed. I was thinking along Fidel Castro's original lines

 

as expressed in his History Will Absolve Me:

... The problem of the land, the problem of industrialization, the problem of housing, the problem of unemployment, the problem of education and the problem of the people's health: these are the six problems we would take immediate steps to solve, along with restoration of civil liberties and political democracy.

This exposition may seem cold and theoretical if one does not know the shocking and tragic conditions of the country with regard to these six problems, along with the most humiliating political oppression.

Eighty-five per cent of the small farmers in Cuba pay rent and live under constant threat of being evicted from the land they till. More than half of our most productive land is in the hands of foreigners. In Oriente, the largest province, the lands of the United Fruit Company and the West Indian Company link the northern and southern coasts. There are two hundred thousand peasant families who do not have a single acre of land to till to provide food for their starving children. On the other hand, nearly three hundred thousand caballerías of cultivable land owned by powerful interests remain uncultivated. If Cuba is above all an agricultural State, if its population is largely rural, if the city depends on these rural areas, if the people from our countryside won our war of independence, if our nation's greatness and prosperity depend on a healthy and vigorous rural population that loves the land and knows how to work it, if this population depends on a State that protects and guides it, then how can the present state of affairs be allowed to continue?

Except for a few food, lumber and textile industries, Cuba continues to be primarily a producer of raw materials. We export sugar to import candy, we export hides to import shoes, we export iron to import plows ... Everyone agrees with the urgent need to industrialize the nation, that we need steel industries, paper and chemical industries, that we must improve our cattle and grain production, the technology and processing in our food industry in order to defend ourselves against the ruinous competition from Europe in cheese products, condensed milk, liquors and edible oils, and the United States in canned goods; that we need cargo ships; that tourism should be an enormous source of revenue. But the capitalists insist that the workers remain under the yoke. The State sits back with its arms crossed and industrialization can wait forever.

Just as serious or even worse is the housing problem. There are two hundred thousand huts and hovels in Cuba; four hundred thousand families in the countryside and in the cities live cramped in huts and tenements without even the minimum sanitary requirements; two million two hundred thousand of our urban population pay rents which absorb between one fifth and one third of their incomes; and two million eight hundred thousand of our rural and suburban population lack electricity. We have the same situation here: if the State proposes the lowering of rents, landlords threaten to freeze all construction; if the State does not interfere, construction goes on so long as landlords get high rents; otherwise they would not lay a single brick even though the rest of the population had to live totally exposed to the elements. The utilities monopoly is no better; they extend lines as far as it is profitable and beyond that point they don't care if people have to live in darkness for the rest of their lives. The State sits back with its arms crossed and the people have neither homes nor electricity.

Our educational system is perfectly compatible with everything I've just mentioned. Where the peasant doesn't own the land, what need is there for agricultural schools? Where there is no industry, what need is there for technical or vocational schools? Everything follows the same absurd logic; if we don't have one thing we can't have the other. In any small European country there are more than 200 technological and vocational schools; in Cuba only six such schools exist, and their graduates have no jobs for their skills. The little rural schoolhouses are attended by a mere half of the school age children - barefooted, half-naked and undernourished - and frequently the teacher must buy necessary school materials from his own salary. Is this the way to make a nation great? ...

https://www.marxists.org/history/cuba/archive/castro/1953/10/16.htm

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #21)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 01:51 PM

29. In criticizing Hero of the People Maduro, you may find yourself the subject of one of her creative

 

Sadistic torture fantasies:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11613485

Different topic but one of her more imaginative.

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Response to Marengo (Reply #29)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 07:20 PM

40. I've seen her operate for years, nuff said. N/T

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Response to Marengo (Reply #29)

Tue Feb 26, 2019, 05:36 PM

50. The topic was a violent racist attack

I also agree the manager acted poorly.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 06:47 AM

18. People who supported Perez Jimenes, many in the country protested about the US intervention

 

As I said, although Perez Jimenez was a dictator, he was by far the best president the country has had, and people knew that.

The fact is that the USA did not stay in Venezuela like it was suggested. Also, that was during the initial attempt fropm Cuba to take over the country. Cuba has always had Venezuela as a target, they were not able to do it then, but they did when Chavez came in.

Someone suggested "let south American countries deal with it", that is a short sited view of the realities in Venezuela and South America, the turmoil in those countries affects the USA and the World are greater than many people arguing this topic seem to understand.

Read this article: [link:https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/159218|

I wonder how many here who are against the coalition intervention against the Maduro regime know people there, understand the dire situation the country is suffering, the corruption of the Maduro regime. How about if those defending the regime take a trip there? See first hand what is going on there? Then make an informed decision.

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Response to Perseus (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 24, 2019, 07:44 PM

6. Do you know you are spouting R/W talking points from the extreme right in east caracas

 

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Response to juxtaposed (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 24, 2019, 08:17 PM

7. It's also the talking points of all the poor Venezuelans I know in Colombia..

....who keep posting on FB about praying for US Marines.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 24, 2019, 10:12 PM

8. There's several countries in Latin American who have the capacity to get the job done

tell me again why it is that WE are needed?

No more military adventurism.

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Response to Jake Stern (Reply #8)

Sun Feb 24, 2019, 10:23 PM

10. I didn't say we should, I just know some Venz.'s who are for it, and they aren't "oligarchs"...

....though I am not so sure any one S American country would have a easy time of it. A coalition maybe. The Venezuelan military might think they could hold off another S American military, they know they would have no chance against the US and their morale would tank.

I think the US could do it about as easy as we did Panama, this isn't the Middle East where a trip to Paradise is looked fwd to by the fundies.

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #10)

Tue Feb 26, 2019, 05:30 PM

49. I don't think the US heart will be in it as much as the Venezuelans

I say that as a veteran of a foreign war in Southwest Asia.

This is all very scary talk including how easy it will be especially since they haven't had a war with anybody it reminds me of the run up to Iraq.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #49)

Tue Feb 26, 2019, 05:36 PM

51. What % of NCO's in the US military now have extensive combat experience?

....and what % in the Venz. military? Not to mention the Venz. military budget is a rounding error compared to the US budget and US military doctrine is now very HiSpeed/LowDrag.

Again, not advocating for it but I think it would be Panama/Granada 2.0

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #51)

Tue Feb 26, 2019, 05:41 PM

52. There is so much turnover in the US military

I hope things are different than when I was in and people are more professional.

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Response to Jake Stern (Reply #8)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 06:55 AM

19. What countries are those in South America?

 

Only Brazil and Colombia, which form the coalition with the USA and England have any capabilities, the rest don't or are part of the Chavizmo, like Bolivia, Ecuador.

The coalition needs to intervene, Venezuela is more important to the USA than you seem to know. Do you want to start paying $3.00+ for gas? Do you want Putin to take hold of Venezuela? The Cubans are there already, thanks to Chavez and Maduro Cubans infiltrated the military, the drug cartels found a home in Venezuela thanks to the regime, many terrorist groups have also found a home there thanks to the regime.

Does anyone opposing the coalition intervention understand these facts? Do you know there is no food, medicines, that they loose electricity on a daily basis, water gets shut down on a daily basis because the infrastructure is in shambles? Do you really understand that?

Please name the countries that have the capability?

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Response to Perseus (Reply #19)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 03:23 PM

33. I have searched, but have failed to find any reference

 

to any formal or even informal "coalition", of military or any other intent, having been formed between the USA and the UK on this issue. The UK is still a member of the EU, and the EU's foreign policy head rejects and would "firmly condemn" any such intervention:

"We must avoid a military intervention," Maja Kocijancic, the spokeswoman for diplomatic chief Federica Mogherini, told reporters.

"What is explicitly quite clear, from our point of view, is that we need a peaceful political and democratic and Venezuelan-owned resolution of this crisis," she added...

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/eu-says-military-intervention-in-venezuela-must-be-avoided-11288140

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Response to juxtaposed (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 24, 2019, 10:18 PM

9. All they need is a teary eyed girl to say she saw them rip babies out of incubators

Hey, it worked in 1991.

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Response to Jake Stern (Reply #9)

Sun Feb 24, 2019, 11:22 PM

15. Would you like to see the dead babies of Chavismo?

 

The mothers giving birth on filthy floors?

The "Breast Cancer Lady"?

Say the word and I can fill up this thread with pictures, with the disaster that is Chavismo.

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Response to juxtaposed (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 24, 2019, 10:36 PM

12. Name ONE right wing Venezuelan party

 

That is remotely mainstream?

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Response to Perseus (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 01:00 PM

25. You are advocating the advancement of a neo-con agenda developed by Bolton et al.

 

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Response to Perseus (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 26, 2019, 05:23 PM

48. Let's liberate the people of Saudi Arabia first

Or Syria. Assad is a logical choice for regime change.

I doubt Venezuelans that oppose Maduro really want us there and if they do it all changes until someone trigger happy fires indiscriminately.

I think given our track record it is best to stay out of it and who knows what kind of operations they have or had in Venezuela. The US traditionally favors regime change in countries that nationalize oil production. Other than that the US doesn't care about human rights.

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Response to Yosemito (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 04:07 AM

17. I'm against direct intervention

but I could releasing the funds from CITGO to the new government, and supplying aid -- including arms. Possibly a no-fly zone and blockade as well if done as part of the OAS.

What i don't want is an Iraq where we go it alone.

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Response to Sgent (Reply #17)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 07:26 AM

20. "What i don't want is an Iraq where we go it alone." that is why its important to seek information

 

The USA is not going at it alone...There is a coalition with USA/England/Colombia/Brazil.

And GatoGordo is correct, there are no right-wing parties there, the Chavizmo is not only corrupt but its cruel and has murdered thousands of innocent people, including babies, it continues to torture young people who dared march against injustice. I wish people would try hard to find information on what is happening in Venezuela, and why the Venezuelan people are seeking and need the coalition to get rid of the regime, why it is so important to the USA and the World that Venezuela become a sovereign country again, with no Cubans and god forbid that Putin gets in, that would be the perfect stage for Putin to start infiltrating the USA and begin an attack from within.

This is not ideological, this is real and urgent to get rid of the regime in Venezuela. To bring history as an excuse, things that happened 70 years ago as the disapproval of Nixon is of no consequence to the current situation. Chavizmo spread through South America, if Venezuela is not helped to get rid of it the consequences to the USA and the World will be dire, it would be a great win for Putin.

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Response to Sgent (Reply #17)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 10:07 AM

22. The only way the US would get involved is due to Trump's arrogance

 

Cooler heads are doing the thinking right now. Maduro is BEGGING for a military intervention of some sort. This would allow him to save face. Which is why the world cringed when the Orange Menace insisted that a US invasion was "on the table". With those words, he breathed new life into Chavismo. TRUMP IS A F*CKING MORON, but he has surrounded himself with far more forward thinking people than himself.

The best thing that the US can do is

1. Cut off the purse strings to Chavismo.
2. Recognize the legitimate authorities in Venezuela.
3. Support humanitarian efforts.
4. Sanctions on the FANB hierarchy.

The hard part is getting The Dolt in the White House to shut up and do nothing.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #22)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 12:41 PM

24. Cutting off the purse strings to Chavismo is still not done....

.......as the regime is still selling oil to the likes of India, granted probably a steep discount, but dollars are still coming in. Interestingly, the regime is still somehow supplying the nation with gasoline, at least as of last Thursday when I was able to fill up without a wait.

Maduro has made it clear now that he's not stepping down via outside pressure (short of a military intervention) so that means the pressure will have to come from within.

This thing has a ways to go in my humble opinion.

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Response to Yosemito (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 01:05 PM

26. Anti-Maduro Venezuelans can fight their own battles

 

No need to spill our blood and empty our pocket-books at their behest.

CIA constructed and astroturfed "Free Venezuelan Army" based in Colombia or Brazil will make their appearance any day now...

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Response to Devil Child (Reply #26)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 01:21 PM

27. Maduro is praying for a military intervention. Which is why there should be none.

 

Once the FANB is bereft of money, they won't have much more loyalty for the Chavistas. At least from those who have rank less than General.

Nice avatar. I imagine that you're a supporter of the Castroists running the Bolivarian Socialist Utopia of Venezuela?

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #27)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 01:30 PM

28. Thanks, I appreciate the kind words regarding the avatar

 

Last edited Mon Feb 25, 2019, 02:02 PM - Edit history (1)

I like it too. That is why I chose it from the options allowed.

No need to imagine support for Castroists running the Bolivarian Socialist Utopia of Venezuela as I have none. Last I checked there is no nation-state by that name or any utopia to speak of. I am a supporter of citizens of countries addressing their own issues rather than having my government charge in like a bull in a china shop and "solving" it for them. The solutions the US government provide are neo-con solutions.

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Response to Devil Child (Reply #28)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 03:18 PM

32. "I am a supporter of citizens of countries addressing their own issues"

So, Pol Pot, Hitler, Tojo, Mussolini, etc, none of our business?

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Response to EX500rider (Reply #32)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 03:29 PM

34. Hitler's Nazi Germany & Mussolini's Fascist Italy declared war on the US

 

The Socialist Republic of Vietnam with Soviet support took care of PRC backed Pol Pot. Did you have problem with the direct and indirect support given by the US and PRC to Pol Pot's continued resistance to Cambodia after the regime's overthrow? Our government sure didn't have a problem coddling genocide participants to further geopolitical aims during the Cold War. Outside your predictable Hitler reference, we made Cambodia our business for all the wrong reasons. Bombing campaigns, destabilization, and murder.

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Response to Devil Child (Reply #34)

Tue Feb 26, 2019, 11:47 AM

46. Got it, Hutu tribesmen hacking to death a million Tutsi in Rwanda not our problem..

....just look the other way.

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Response to GatoGordo (Reply #27)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 05:12 PM

35. There are indications that the loyalty of Chavistas runs deep. cf. Greg Palast:

 

Why do the poor march for Maduro? Even though the Mestizo majority suffers today, they will not turn back to the pre-Chavez days of de facto apartheid.

And we must remember this is not the first time the US government has tried to overthrow the elected government in Venezuela.

In 2002, George W. Bush’s State Department cheer-led the coup. The plotters kidnapped Chavez and held him hostage. The coup was led by an oil industry leader and head of the Chamber of Commerce, Pedro Carmona, who had seized the nation’s White House, and, like Guaidó today, declared himself president... But the Bush/Carmona coup collapsed when a million darker-skinned Venezuelans flooded the capital and forced the plotters to return their hero, the supposedly unpopular Chavez, to Miraflores, the Presidential Palace. “Presidente” Carmona fled.

Today, Guaidó’s supporters, like Carmona’s, know they can’t win an election given the overwhelming fact of the newly empowered Mestizo majority. So Guaidó has skipped the idea of an election altogether, simply replacing running for office with the “recognition” from Trump and allies which Guaidó can’t get from Venezuelans...

https://www.gregpalast.com/in-venezuela-white-supremacy-is-a-key-to-trump-coup/

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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #35)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 05:45 PM

36. too many Democratic politicians ignore this history too.

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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #35)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 08:15 PM

43. Why do the poor march for Maduro?

Many march for Maduro because their jobs depend on it. They're loaded on buses in cities all over the country and driven to Caracas to participate in rallies whether they support the regime or not. Fail to do so and there's someone waiting in line for your job. Who wants to lose a job today with all the benefits when the private sector has been crippled? Think it's tough finding and buying food while employed? Try it without employment.

My favorite example was a number of years ago when virtually all the employees of the Jusepin Plant in Monagas were loaded on buses and taken to Caracas for a rally. While there, the plant experienced a pipeline failure and thousands of barrels of heavy crude (chavismo never really admitted how many) spilled into the nearby river and headed downstream for Maturin, a city of about 500,000 inhabitants. Had the plant been fully-staffed, the spill could have contained much more quickly and with much less environmental damage.

Maturin depended on the river for its water supply as did hundreds of small farms along the river. The heavy oil covered everything, killed all sorts of wildlife, caused many small farmers to go under for lack of water, and caused major problems for the city of Maturin, which, to this day, has not fully recovered from incident. Can you imagine a city of 500,000 without a reliable water supply? Visit Maturin today and see what life is like.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-oil-spill/venezuela-says-guarapiche-oil-spill-under-control-idUSTRE81B0RP20120212

https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/6817

BTW, the governor of Monagas at the time, a chavista, disputed claims by the feds that everything was under control and little environmental damage had occurred. He was later forced out of office, and out of the country and I believe today lives in the Dominican Republic......and is very weathly after his short time in office I've heard.

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Response to Yosemito (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2019, 06:56 AM

45. What would be the outcome if we invaded Venezuela?

 

How many troops do they have and what types of equipment do they have? Would any countries enter into the conflict on our side and on their side. How many casualties would we sustain? How many military and how many civilian casualties would they sustain. How long would we have to remain there and what is our exit strategy?

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Response to Cold War Spook (Reply #45)

Tue Feb 26, 2019, 05:12 PM

47. There will be no invasion of Venezuela

 

That is the wet dream of the Orange Menace.

Fortunately for the world, he is largely surrounded by people with functioning neurons. As such, they have tried to beat it into his think cranium that any military venture would serve only Maduro and be another epic fail for Trump. While the US military forces could make quick work of the FANB, it is the zealots who still have a hard on for Chavez who would be the problem.

Common sense says the FANB is soon running out of money. PdVSA is now cut off from them, except for beer money. They sell it to Citgo, the money goes to Guaido. Maduro sees zero profit from the oil he is sending to Russia and China (debt repayment). The ONLY money he sees if from India, who gets a huge discount for paying cash up front.

Patience. The people are angry. Maduro is out of money and soon out of time.

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