Top Foreign Affairs Dem rebukes Ilhan Omar for 'vile anti-Semitic slur'

[Jose Garcia]

Source: Politico

Rep. Ilhan Omar is drawing criticism again for comments about Israel — this time suggesting that pro-Israel activists and lawmakers hold “allegiance to a foreign country.”

In a lengthy and blistering rebuke late Friday, Rep. Eliot Engel, the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said Omar’s remarks amounted to a “vile anti-Semitic slur” and called on the Minnesota Democrat to apologize“

I welcome debate in Congress based on the merits of policy, but it’s unacceptable and deeply offensive to call into question the loyalty of fellow American citizens because of their political views, including support for the U.S.-Israel relationship,” said Engel (D-N.Y.), who is Jewish. “Her comments were outrageous and deeply hurtful, and I ask that she retract them, apologize, and commit to making her case on policy issues without resorting to attacks that have no place in the Foreign Affairs Committee or the House of Representatives."

A spokesman for Omar did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Read more: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/story/2019/03/01/ilhan-omar-anti-semitic-slur-1199495

[watoos]

1. Just saying,

The only way we lose in 2020 is if we fight among ourselves.

[FreepFryer]

2. Let's have a legitimate conversation about AIPAC's undue influence, rather than slurs.

Omar was way out of line, but she is using language that is constantly heard on the other side.

Engel could have pointed this out and shifted the issue to address the disproportionate power of AIPAC, but he focused on castigating Omar. I see that as a lost opportunity.

Nevertheless, Omar might want to put in some practice on her rhetorical self-restraint, because yikes.

[yerop]

13. They spend more on Dems than Repubs

and are way down at 50th in terms of lobbyist spending.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-how-the-pro-israel-lobby-just-criticized-by-ilhan-omar-stacks-up-against-other-washington-influencers-2019-02-11

I second your Yikes about Omar's statement.

?uuid=5a89e618-2e0e-11e9-82b3-ac162d7bc1f7

[paleotn]

25. Wonder what that chart would look like minus Sheldon Adelson?

[DallasNE]

67. Total Republican In 2016 Is Just Over $7 Million

So I doubt any of his direct money is showing. He could be giving some to organizations that are represented, however.

[atreides1]

31. Which Dems are getting the money?

And the ethnicity or religious belief of those receiving that money isn't important to me...I just would like to know which Democrats are receiving money from any and all PAC's!!!

[brooklynite]

104. Have you researched the question?

The data is all available online.

[elleng]

45. I agree, and I hope both of them think about improving the conversation;

they surely have the wherewithal, being observant,caring, and intelligent.

[reggaehead]

121. Was she mistaken?

I don't think so. Israel must be brought to heel.

[Chemisse]

3. Worrisome.

Especially since this is the second time she has crossed the line in this same vein.

At the very least she needs to understand how to be diplomatic about her belief that the Israeli lobby is too strong. At the worst, she may indeed be antisemitic and following an agenda accordingly.

[FreepFryer]

4. Agreed! Such slurs and language only give further cover to those to whose influence Omar objects. nt

[The Liberal Lion]

33. She's not anti-semetic

She's telling the truth. And what is happening is that those who benefit financially from the "pro-apartheidist state" aka Israel are being shamed for her truth telling.

[Chemisse]

40. As long as she attacks in this way it will be viewed as anti-semitic however.

And therefore not given credence.

I agree completely with her concerns, I just disagree with her approach, which seems self-destructive and, in the end, ineffective.

[The Liberal Lion]

42. I understand your point. And I agree with you.

[leftynyc]

87. Accusing AMERICANS of dual loyalty

or even worse, loyalty to a foreign government over your own - is the height of anti-semitism. You can try and pretty it up and make excuses for it all you want but she's an anti-semite and proves it every time she opens her mouth about dual loyalty. Shame on you for defending her calling us traitors.

[watoos]

5. Israel's best interests aren't always our best,

Or should I say Bibi’s best interests.
I don’t like the pact that Israel has made with Saudi Arabia.

[Evolve Dammit]

37. Agree

[PatSeg]

47. Hey the Saudis probably have more money

to spread around than the U.S. Just ask Jared Kushner!

[McKim]

6. Dividing Democrats Not a Good Move

JRep. Engel needs to consider the long term best interests of our Democratic Party. Dividing us especially at this critical time is not a winning idea. We need to take a long look at this type of behavior and reject it. Who is he serving? Not the Democratic Party!

[leftynyc]

88. Aim your ire at the congresswoman

who can't seem to open her mouth without charging American Jews of disloyalty. SHE is the one dividing us, not Engel.

[Ghost Dog]

124. Divided loyalties, potentially,

are what the congresswoman appears to suggest.

[leftynyc]

126. For the second time

She apologized after the first but doesn't seem to have learned a damn thing.

[ck4829]

7. So when Trump says he gave Israel Jerusalem, how come nobody called that antisemitic?

He was expecting points with Jews here in the US, why?

Why did Republicans here in the US praise that action?

Was that antisemitism?

Maybe we should revisit that.

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/10142093165

[ck4829]

12. Let's revisit it...

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100211880657

[George II]

14. That has nothing to do with this (second) incident. Plus, trump isn't a Democrat.

[ck4829]

15. Democrats can't criticize Trump?

I'm starting to think that if someone else (Someone white and non-Muslim) said this, we wouldn't be having this conversation at all... and I've demonstrated that fact.

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100211880657

[George II]

18. No one said that. But you're using things that trump said to rationalize or justify what Omar said.

I'm sure over the last two years Representative Elliot has criticized trump a number of times. Now unfortunately he's been forced to criticize anti-Semitic talk from one of his own fellow Democrats on the committee he chairs.

[ck4829]

20. Exactly. It's what's not said

I'm 100% certain that if Trump said the things Omar said and has said; nobody would say anything, nobody did say anything.

Nobody called it antisemitic then... no media, no politicians, no armchair pundits then.

I want to know why.

I think it's fair to point out the systemic racism (Which involves more than one person here so I am not mad at Rep Engel, a lot of this is subconscious) here... if a white Republican says this, he expects gratitude from Jewish people for something he did in a foreign country, people shrug. A Somali Muslim says something shocking about Israel, well that's why we're here.

Antisemitism is an old and dangerous thing, very old, I do know the word for this wasn't coined when Ilhan Omar became Representative.

[former9thward]

60. He did not "give" Israel Jerusalem.

Jerusalem was the capital of Israel long before Trump and still is. He just recognized that fact as Congress has and has all Democratic presidents and candidates for president for decades.

[ck4829]

68. So why did he measure Jewish support done in a foreign country again?

Nobody called *that* antisemitism.

Why are people avoiding talking about this?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211880657

I guess it's OK for a white Republican to go out to measure his points that he thought he scored with Jewish people because he did something in another country and then say they weren't grateful... actually sounds antisemitic to me, but hey, Trump's not a Somali Muslim woman in a hijab, so it must be OK for him to say it.

The word "antisemitism" has also been around for decades, it wasn't coined when Ilhan Omar became a Representative.

[NRaleighLiberal]

8. a big tent is good. a rumble in the big tent - unavoidable now and then, but...

not optimal when there is such a malevolent presence to unite against (the orange one)

[padah513]

39. Stay

Your opinion counts as much as anyone else

[Mosby]

51. he's dead, Jim.

[nycbos]

10. AIPAC is a legitimate target for criticism.

But the duel loyalty trope has been used to target jews for centuries. During Nazi rule it was used to target jews because they were "secret communists." It was used in the Soviet Union to target jews because they were "secret capitalists."


The left has a BIG problem with antisemitism. I do not care if she is the first muslim women to serve in the house. This is unacceptable. If she has a primary challenger I will support him/her.

[allgood33]

59. I agree.

Sometimes, the allegation of "anti-Semitism" is a method to cut off legitimate debate.

[leftynyc]

89. Same here

This one seems not able to open her mouth without saying something stupid and insulting.

[ripcord]

108. Don't forget idual loyalties was used as an excuse to imprison Japanese Americans during WW2

Republicans accused Catholic presidential candidate JFK of dual loyalties to the US and the Vatican but still some people either don't get or don't care why something like that can be considered offensive, it is really sad.

[MrScorpio]

11. The same Engel who got $150,000 in pro-Israel industry campaigns donations last year?

We're talking about this guy, right?

https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/summary?cid=N00001003

[George II]

16. What are you insinuating?

[MrScorpio]

21. I'm insinuating that Engel knows exactly what side of his bread is buttered...

That someone who gets thousands of dollars in campaign donations from pro-Israel groups would do everything that he could to keep that spigot flowing.

This is way more about money than it is about anything else.

[forklift]

75. That is an asinine leap

Rep. Omar probably received money from a lot of Islamic groups .... using that to conclude that she will support terrorism would be an asinine leap .... wouldn't everyone agree?

[MrScorpio]

83. Actually, your own assertion fits the very definition of an asinine leap...

Especially since the "Islamic groups" who make up her top contributors are organizations like Emily's List, Move-On and End Citizens United.

All of them bent on taking down the State of Israel, I'm sure.

https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/summary?cid=N00043581&cycle=2018

But she makes an excellent point, in that too much money is affecting our politics... And Washington is freaking out about. That's because that's ALL Washington has been all about for very interested parties over the years. From her fresh perspective, she can see it all very clearly.

It's just that simple.

When a pro-Israel lobbying group like NORPAC, the same group who wrote this love letter to Donald Trump and Jared Kushner over the highly controversial and inciting move of the American Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem (http://norpac.net/blog/norpac-statement-on-the-jerusalem-u-s-embassy-announcement), ends up being one of Rep. Engel's top contributors, I'm sure that all of can see that it makes Rep. Omar's point very clearly indeed.

[forklift]

84. I'm afraid you misconstrued my post.

I was posing a hypothetical.

It is not unusual that a Jewish candidate will have Jewish contributors and a Muslim candidate would have Muslim contributors. It means nothing.

[ripcord]

114. So are you saying that all politicians are owned by the people who donate to them

Or is it just the Jews?

[MrScorpio]

115. It's a general condition.

In the most general way possible.

[marble falls]

23. Nothing wrong with pointing out conveniently forgotten details. Sunlight is good for everyone.

[mountain grammy]

17. The very same. Under the influence..

[PatSeg]

19. You know what I find offensive?

When Netanyahu says, "I have the United States wrapped around my finger", and then insults and disrespects our leaders. He snubbed our president in 2015 and spoke before our congress opposing Obama's policies. He repeatedly undermined our Democratic administration, all while taking our money and protection.

One can be anti Netanyahu and his right-wing government, while still being pro Israel and its people. I am sure there are people in Europe who feel similarly about Trump - hate the leader, but still support the American people.

[jrthin]

28. +1000

[Lonestarblue]

35. So true!

Any criticism of Bibi and his government’s actions has been turned into antisemitism when it clearly is not. The Israeli government has committed atrocities and illegally taken Palestinian land for settlements, actions that should be criticized. That criticism has nothing to do with religion but everything to do with government choices.

[PatSeg]

43. Agreed

And Netanyahu will be quick to label any criticism as "antisemitism" and sit back and watch while U.S. politicians frantically walk back any legitimate slight to his right-wing corrupt government.

Can you imagine if an American president went to Israel, without invitation from the Prime Minister, and spoke to the Israeli legislature criticizing their leader? Netanyahu pushed his luck time and time again, hopefully his luck is finally running out. His outrageous arrogance will undoubtedly be in downfall.

[Power 2 the People]

46. +1000

[FreepFryer]

44. THIS. (n/t)

[watoos]

49. Bravo, well said.

I hate Trump, does that make me anti-American?

A lot of people in Israel don't like Bibi. does that make them anti-Semitic?

I don't like Bibi, but I am pro Israel. I'm anti that pact that Bibi has with Saudi Arabia.

Give me a few thousand dollars and I may write a pro Bibi article.

[stuffmatters]

52. this

[leftynyc]

90. What the fuck does

that have to do with an American congresswoman accusing her fellow Americans of disloyalty? Defending this woman by deflecting to bibi is nothing but bullshit.

[PatSeg]

98. Accusing fellow Americans of disloyality

may be tactless, but it is not anti-Semitic. I think we have quite a few politicians who have catered to foreign powers for money, power, and political advantage. There's one in the White House right now. But if that foreign power happens to be Netanyahu, then it is anti-Semitic?

I think the congresswoman made a freshman mistake and did not use the tact and diplomacy necessary in congress, but that doesn't mean she wasn't telling a truth that pretty much everyone in DC knows.

[leftynyc]

99. It IS anti-semitic and this

has been explained over and over again. Jews been accused of disloyalty to their country has been going on for centuries. I trash bibi all the time and I manage to do it without accusing Americans of disloyalty so pretending this can't happen is nonsense.

[PatSeg]

100. No, the people who are being accused of disloyalty

are unprincipled, even corrupt politicians and most of them are NOT Jewish. If a politician caters to the Saudi royal family, is criticizing them for it anti Muslim?

[leftynyc]

102. No, it's not and that's the point

If she could manage to trash bibi or Israeli policies without charging AMERICANS - ANY AMERICANS - of disloyalty, she wouldn't be having these problems. But she hasn't been able to manage to do that even after apologizing for it once already.

[marble falls]

22. The GOP will never, ever beat us. Be we just might.

[paleotn]

24. Can't we all get along?...

Don't get me wrong. I love our new crop of Dems, but some need to learn the art of political speak. Some would call it being mealy mouthed, but it's saved immeasurable misunderstandings and embarrassment for quite some time. It's the rough, second cousin to diplomatic speak.

[LuvLoogie]

26. Ms. Omar probably could have said "undue influence" rather than allegiance, but

Mr. Engel might be over-reacting just a bit.

[lancelyons]

27. Folks from Israel have become way to sensitive.

It is perfectly legit to call out bad behavior by Israel and their pathetic criminal leader Netanyahu. It ok to say that some Americans have allegiance to foreign countries. It’s true. It is not saying anything about Jewish people or their religion. Stop with the bs about this being anti Semitic.

All this is is racism against Muslims.

[Owl]

29. +1

[ck4829]

30. Thank you

Be sure to join in here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211880657

[EllieBC]

63. So Jews are being sentisitve but

being upset is racism against Muslims. Ok.

I forgot. Jews need to shut up and not say a word when accused of things like dual loyalties.

[Jedi Guy]

65. Funny how that works, isn't it?

If that remark had caused any other minority group to take offense, I very much doubt that it would be described as an "overreaction." I also doubt that people would be telling them why they shouldn't be offended and explaining it all away.

This is the second time Rep. Omar has opened her mouth and stuck her foot right in there. Her heart is in the right place, but she could definitely benefit from choosing her words more carefully.

[leftynyc]

93. How do you know her

heart is in the right place? This is the second time she's made this disgusting accusation. Just how many times should I give her to get it right?

[Scruffy1]

96. She's my congresswoman.

Her ditrict has a large number of Palestinian immigrants and she is learning the hard way that Israel is the third rail of American politics. It is a problem that has gone on for generations and seems to be insoluble. To me, it's complete nonsense to conflate any criticism of Israel's policies with anti semitism, but it is dead certain that you will be pilloried if you speak up. Of course, all these people complaining probably don't live in her district, which is 64% white and about 20% African American. She got 78% of the vote. I have no numbers on it, but all of my Jewish friends voted for her. I'm considered Jewish by a lot of people even though I take no part in any organized religion and don't really identify myself that way. I'm very proud of her and she is probably saying what a lot of people in Congress would say if they were from very safe districts like hers.

[leftynyc]

97. Just stop it

This has NOTHING to do with criticizing Israel. NOTHING. She's accusing AMERICANS of disloyalty to our country and accusing them of loyalty to Israel. That's an age-old canard about Jews who have been accused of dual loyalty for centuries and has NOTHING to do with Israel AT ALL.

[Jedi Guy]

101. Okay, that's a fair point.

Let's say that I'd like to believe that her heart is in the right place. I'll grant you that it gets harder to believe that when she keeps making statements like this.

[Behind the Aegis]

70. Nailed it.

Anytime anti-Semitism is the topic we are told to "shut up", "get over it", give people passes because they aren't "big names (Farrakhan) with any real power", and there is always the ever-present "whataboutism", usually it is Israel, but in this thread, it is the pResident and his "alleged" anti-Semitism and how it wasn't addressed in a way that was acceptable.

[ck4829]

71. Because it wasn't acceptable

If Rep. Ilhan Omar spoke like how Trump and Huckabee talked in their interview, there probably would have been calls to physically remove her from Congress, if not the country.

But hey, they aren't Somali Muslims, so it's all good apparently.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211880657

[Behind the Aegis]

72. But hey, discussing anti-Semitism is no fun when you can "whataboutit" with something else.

But, hey, anti-Semitism needs more non-Jews to define it for us and tell us when and how we should respond.

[ck4829]

74. So we're not supposed to notice or remember the response to one group vs another?

Two people get a shrug and definitely not called antisemitic, but one person (Somali Muslim) gets a rebuke.

Why?

[Behind the Aegis]

76. So we are not supposed to discuss anti-Semitism when it comes from our own side?

Are we supposed to pretend that anti-Semitism is not often called out on the other side?


Do you know what anti-Semitism is? More to the point, do you care?

[ck4829]

78. I don't know if it would even be called anti-Semitism if was said by someone else

It's quickly becoming more overt that there is a cognitive shortcut of "Ilhan Omar said X, it is offensive and she's a horrible person!", with X being if anyone else said it (Especially if that anyone was less Muslim and less Somali), it wouldn't merit the same response.

[Behind the Aegis]

79. So you don't know what it is.

That clears up quite a bit. It is clear that anti-Semitism is conditional for your condemnation. I appreciate the clarification.

[ck4829]

80. And thank you for your clarification of not recognizing systemic racism

I appreciate knowing that this cognitive shortcut is pretty much confirmed. Just curious, since the bar for when something does become anti-Semitism is indeed so much lower for Somali Americans than it is for white Americans, is it higher or lower for other ethnic groups?

As someone interested in sociology, some sort of scale would be invaluable.

[Behind the Aegis]

81. The clarification of the disinterest in anti-Semitism has been eye opening.

Just curious, is anti-Semitism less offensive (or not even anti-Semitism) when it isn't a RW asshole making the comment? Or is anti-Semitism just redefined when it suits the needs of the person making the comments and their defenders?

[ck4829]

82. Likewise

A Somali American wouldn't even be allowed to come close to saying the things white Americans have said about "globalists", "cultural Marxists", "George Soros", etc. in the past year alone anywhere, on any platform. They would have been run out of town.

That's crystal clear.

And I'm sorry, I find disparities disgusting, it's a major basis for my political philosophy. Ilhan Omar said something shocking? OK. Let's have some consistency, let's not treat her differently than anyone else. The bar shouldn't be different just because her color or religion is different from the majority.

[EllieBC]

85. Dual loyalty accusations aren't shocking.

It's a rather old canard thrown out by antisemites.

[ck4829]

86. So it's just interesting

I feel as though this has been said before, because it has. This conversation, had Ilhan Omar said something along these lines, would have gotten her destroyed.

Sorry, but I can't shake the perception that this conversation is only happening because Ilhan Omar said this and had it been someone else, it would be politics as usual, also a rather old thing... no outrage, no bipartisan rebukes, no calling it antisemitism, no nothing.

[leftynyc]

92. +1000

This is getting fucking sickening. I have to listen to people from my own party accuse me of disloyalty and right here on this board I'm finding defense of that. I will NOT shut up about it.

[lancelyons]

113. no being upset is not racism against muslims

However, having posters made of Omar under the twin towers falling down in 911, constantly calling Omar out for her statements that are NOT antisemitic... have a tone of being negative on her with a hint of her religion / race mixed in.

[leftynyc]

91. SHE is accusing us of disloyalty to our country

and YOU are finding excuses for it. That's disgusting.

[leftynyc]

129. WTF are you babbling about?

Are you seriously accusing all Jewish members of congress of being guilty of espionage? Because that's what pollard was tried and convicted of. There are currently 17 Muslims members of the Knesset (81 have or are currently serving). Now you list all the blacks that served under the apartheid South African government. Let's compare and then you can stop using words you clearly don't know the meaning of.

[George II]

130. Instead of just invoking Jonathan Pollard's name, why not tell us who he really was?

[mn9driver]

32. Engel's outrage would be more convincing if his campaign didn't take quite so much pro Israel money.

And I am not attacking a Democrat. That is what he is doing. Omar is my congresswoman. I voted for her and none of this will keep me from voting for her again.

[forklift]

77. If my congressperson said that

they would get a call from me expressing displeasure. It simply was not ok.

If she had made that comment on DU, it would have been hidden pronto.

[The Liberal Lion]

34. Once again Rep Omar is correct. This time I hope she does not apologize.

The government under Netanyahu is no friend to the US. Those who are swayed by the shekels to vote in our halls of government in support of the pro-segregationist policies of Israel are as well no friend of the US. I give no double meaning here. I'll say it clearly, as Israel is currently governed it is no friend to the US, and the influence that the pro-Israel (read pro-Netanyahu) lobby has on our government is wholly disturbing and is not in interest of the people of the United States. Once again Rep. Omar is completely correct in her analysis of our elected officials relationship with the Israeli government.

[Mosby]

53. how is Israel "pro-segragationist"?

Care to explain?

[leftynyc]

94. This has NOTHING to do with bibi

who I loathe. She is accusing American Jews of disloyalty and because you don't like bibi, you're pretending it about something else. She is NOT correct and the defense I'm seeing from my own party on her disgusting accusations is very disturbing.

[MicaelS]

36. How many other countries have groups of Americans..

And American politicians that constantly lobby for said countries?

[former9thward]

61. Since you asked...

Here is the list by Department of Justice as of today (3/2/2019) covering almost every country in the world. 670 American groups are registered as lobbyists for these countries.

https://efile.fara.gov/pls/apex/f?p=185:130:0::NO:RP,130 130_DATERANGE:N

[Liberalhammer]

38. A lobby for a foreign nation is for that nations best interests

Not the US.

Regardless of what nation be it Saudi Arabia or Israel.

I think that lobbies for forging nations and money from them should be illegal in all their forms.

[Mosby]

41. It's facinating how a little country of 8.2 million gets so much attention

From politicians, the UN, media and discussion boards like DU.

[Izzy Blue]

48. Eliot Engle holds a duel US/Israel citizenship

Prominent Democrats Form Pro-Israel Group to Counter Skepticism on the Left


By Jonathan Martin

Jan. 28, 2019

"WASHINGTON — Several prominent veteran Democrats, alarmed by the party’s drift from its longstanding alignment with Israel, are starting a new political group that will try to counter the rising skepticism on the left toward the Jewish state by supporting lawmakers and candidates in 2020 who stand unwaveringly with the country.

With polls showing that liberals and younger voters are increasingly less sympathetic to Israel, and a handful of vocal supporters of Palestinian rights arriving in Congress, the new group — the Democratic Majority for Israel — is planning to wage a campaign to remind elected officials about what they call the party’s shared values and interests with one of America’s strongest allies.

“Most Democrats are strongly pro-Israel and we want to keep it that way,” said Mark Mellman, the group’s president and a longtime Democratic pollster. “There are a few discordant voices, but we want to make sure that what’s a very small problem doesn’t metastasize into a bigger problem.”

more
http://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/28/us/politics/democrats-israel-palestine.html

[Mosby]

50. Eliot Engle is not an Israeli citizen.

Could you post a link to the website where you read that?

[Izzy Blue]

119. Here

https://hpub.org/2015/03/05/list-of-us-politicians-who-hold-israeli-citizenship-netanyahu-himself-is-a-u-s-citizen/uncategorized/admin/

[DemocratSinceBirth]

120. Can you please cite a reliable original source?

They all go back to the same list.

Thank you in advance.

[lapucelle]

139. The same source has "Billary Clinton" murder conspiracy stories.

Billary Clinton Body Count: Five Untimely Deaths of People Who Jeopardized Her Campaign WikiLeaks Offers 25K for Information

[lapucelle]

135. Your link goes to a right wing website that has a "Billary Clinton" tab and the story

"More People Killed by Hillary Clinton than by Sharks in the Last 25 Years"

[DinahMoeHum]

54. There is a comment to the NYT article well worth pondering. . .

(boldface emphasis is mine - DMH)

Please don't do this. I'm Jewish and finally hopeful that the Democratic Party will leave the AIPAC guys be the albatross of the GOP
You can't resolve democracy and liberal values with political zionism. Please do not take my religious /ethnic identity and muck it up with AIPAC nationalism. We finally are getting somewhere. Don't blow it!

[Mosby]

56. Israel is both democratic and Liberal

More liberal than the US in fact, because of Zionism.

[DeminPennswoods]

69. We often forget that

Israel, like every country, has its own national intrests. While there is much alignment between US and Israeli national interests, it isn't total. It behooves Americans to recognize that sometimes US national interest conflicts with Israeli national interest. Our policy toward Israel should not be blind loyalty to whatever they do, it should be doing what is in America's best interest when those interests diverge.

[leftynyc]

95. Really? Where did you hear Rep Engel's is a dual citizen?

That's a very serious charge so I'm asking you to back it up. Can you?

[Izzy Blue]

118. If it's such a serious charge I'm surprised you didn't look it up first.

"List of US Politicians Who Hold Israeli Citizenship. Netanyahu himself is a U.S. Citizen

Posted on Thursday, 5th March 2015


https://hpub.org/2015/03/05/list-of-us-politicians-who-hold-israeli-citizenship-netanyahu-himself-is-a-u-s-citizen/uncategorized/admin/

[leftynyc]

122. LOL

That s just a list of Jews. Where are the citizenship papers, passports, voting records? I know of one, my representative Nita Lowey is definitely not an Israeli citizen so why should I believe any of them? Just because Jews are entitled to Israeli citizenship doesn't mean they are. I want PROOF, not just a nazi like list of Jews. I'm entitled to Israeli citizenship but I'm not an Israeli citizen. Where is PROOF?

[leftynyc]

123. By the way

I most certainly DID look it up and found nothing but lists of Jews in congress - no PROOF. Take a look at this and stop posting lists of names of Jews assuming they have citizenship with ZERO PROOF

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/06/11/the-strange-anti-semitic-internet-rumor-that-bernie-sanders-has-israeli-citizenship/?utm_term=.c4a63105ae39


Politifact calls it PANTS ON FIRE LIE

https://www.politifact.com/facebook-fact-checks/statements/2019/feb/25/blog-posting/no-members-congress-dont-have-dual-citizenship-isr/

If you have an actual PROOF, time to serve it up.

[Izzy Blue]

131. I stand corrected on posting a "zero proof " list

Yet the issue is not resolved and until it is we don't know what politicians may hold duel citizenship with Israel
Are you claiming that currently none do?
And if you are how do you know this?.

[leftynyc]

132. Because if they did

Anti-semites on both sides of the aisle would have found the evidence. That bogus list was all over facebook (which I'm not on but was told about) all last weekend but it's a charge that has come up over and over and there has NEVER been one shred of evidence. Not one shred.

[lapucelle]

137. Why did you link to a conspiracy website?

From your link:

More People Killed by Hillary Clinton Than by Sharks in the Last 25 Years

[DemocratSinceBirth]

125. That list is risible.

According to that list I have duel citizenship and I have never been to Israel and the last time I was in a synagogue the Beatles were still together.

[lapucelle]

136. "More People Killed by Hillary Clinton Than by Sharks in the Last 25 Years" is another story

at your link.

[Devil Child]

55. The undue influence of ALL foreign powers on our domestics affairs needs calling out

I respect Rep. Omar acknowledging quite a large elephant in the room.

[Mosby]

58. The oil lobby (eg API) is vastly more powerful than AIPAC

It's not even close.


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/oil-companies-climate-policy_us_570bb841e4b0142232496d97

[Devil Child]

62. An informative link, thank you Mosby.

My sentiment and disdain extends to the collective oil industry's lobbying.

[guillaumeb]

57. Some intersting numbers:

Engel, Eliot L (D-NY)
$150,094

https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary.php?ind=Q05&cycle=2018&recipdetail=H&mem=Y

[Devil Child]

64. Thanks for the link guillaumeb

Helpful information to explain Rep. Engel's response.

[guillaumeb]

117. One possible reason.

You are welcome.

[DallasNE]

66. There Are No Winners In This Exchange

Representative Omar does need to work on her framing but she is also has a point though it is not well articulated. Representative Engel needs to tone down his framing of Omar's statement as being "vile" and trotting out the anti-Semitic charge at every opportunity.

If Engel wants to talk about policy, let's have that debate and it starts with Israel's decades long settlement policy that is completely indefensible. Why not meet that with a sharp cutback in aide to Israel and even sanctions on the now corrupt leaders responsible for that policy. Yes, Israel is entitled to secure borders but the settlement policy is not a security issue - it is a land grab. But the political reality is that that is not going to change anytime soon. The corrupting influence of the money pipeline assures that. And right now the money is not on the side of Representative Omar. And, as we know, money drives policy - isn't that the point Omar is making in her own way. She just has to find a better way to express it.

[KayF]

144. I agree about toning it down

"vile" is an extremely strong word and imho totally out of line. Doesn't the House have rules against this kind of invective?

[forklift]

73. If she is not made to have discipline

I am afraid we will lose 2-5% of the Jewish vote in several key states.

We should not condone such comments. Criticism of specific policies or actions by Israel is fine but painting with a broad brush is never ok.

[procon]

103. More people should be speaking out against

the paid influence and meddling of any foreign country in US politics. Ban all foreign obbying efforts and prohibit any bribes to politicians.

Her point is valid, but rather than address the issue, all the usual pro-israel champions are focusing on the semantics rather than the corrupting influence of foreign interests on our government.

The whole system is corrupt and smacks of quid pro quo, promoting the interests of foreign states over US interests and pilfering the taxpayers money to prop up influential foreign governments.

[DavidDvorkin]

105. Semantics?

I'm no pro-Israel champion, but I do react angrily to antisemitic dog whistles.

[procon]

106. Really? Which part of "semantics" makes you angry?

se·man·tics

/səˈman(t)iks/
noun

the branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning... which studies word meanings and word relations, and conceptual semantics, which studies the cognitive structure of meaning... the meaning of a word, phrase, sentence, or text.



Hint: semantics is not the same as Semitic, which identifies with a group of languages that includes Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic and certain peoples who speak Semitic languages, especially Hebrew and Arabic.

[DavidDvorkin]

107. As commonly used, it's a way to dismiss concerns about a statement

As I'm sure you know.

[procon]

109. I'm trying to grasp what you're saying

but without a clear reference point I can only guess. If not Semitic then it must be semantics, and what I think you are trying to say (and I could be wrong) appears to be the same criticism that I made, that by focusing only on the semantics, "... It's a way to dismiss concerns about a statement."

So everyone queues up to declare that they oppose anti semitism because the word "Israel" was written in a post, and totally ignores the corruption of foreign money on US politics. While I don't know for sure that's actually your intended meaning, blame it on semantics, that is my best interpretation

[DavidDvorkin]

110. By talking about semantics, you belitteld and dismissed my criticism

I'm sure you understand that perfect well, and now you're being disingenuous. I won't bother replying further.

[procon]

111. Thank you for making your views clear.

Although, I am somewhat amused by your psychological evaluation of my sinister character and dastardly intent, usually it takes several posts before my demonic proclivities are discovered.

Still, it takes an enormous amount of mental effort to perform the internet's version of a triple Axel jump... Great recovery! An 8, for sure, but there's so much more to learn. Please don't retire from the field on my account, or just as you learned what semantic means. LOL My bad... I doubt the ironic humor was your first objective.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

112. Accusing Jews of dual loyalty is never a good look. It never ends well.

I hope it's a problem of the head and not of the heart. If it's the latter I am profoundly sad. If it's the former there's hope.

[DavidDvorkin]

116. Except on DU, where it's apparently just fine.

[Blue_Tires]

128. Yep, eating our own right on schedule

[ck4829]

143. Yep

[Izzy Blue]

133. Is there a law

that makes it illegal for an American politician to hold dual citizenship with Israel?
If not and it is legal and politicians aren't required to inform their constitutes therefore we would rely on them volunteering the information does raise many concerns.

[lapucelle]

138. Your link says that "More People Were Killed by Hillary Clinton Than by Sharks in the Past 25 Years"

It also has this "story" under the "Billary Clinton" tab:

Doubt Surfaces About ‘Suicide’ Claim of Clinton Investigator

[marble falls]

140. What a dumb question. My step-son has triple citizenship - US, GB, and France ...

Mom is US, Dad is GB and James was born in France.

The only aspect of anyone's citizenship that is any bit of your business is does a candidate meet the requirement to run for the office.

[scipan]

141. She was implying that members of the Foreign Affairs Cmte

show loyalty to Israel, not Jews per se.

There are only 8 Jewish members of that 47 member committee, 7 dems and 1 repub.

source: https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/jewish-dems-not-concerned-over-ilhan-omar-s-membership-on-foreign-affairs-committee-1.6870433

This is not antisemitic because she is mostly criticizing non-jews. Or perhaps she is criticizing Pelosi, who appointed her, and I don't think Pelosi is Jewish.

[ck4829]

142. Kick