Centrist Democrats raise concerns over $15 minimum wage push

[brooklynite]

Source: The Hill

House Democrats are moving forward with legislation that would raise the federal minimum wage to $15 per hour, despite concerns from centrist lawmakers about the impact on lower-cost areas.

Democratic leaders say they’re close to clinching the 218 votes needed to pass the bill, which they expect to bring to the floor in July.

All but 29 of the 235 Democratic lawmakers in the House have cosponsored the measure. Many of the holdouts are moderates who are concerned that a significant wage boost in a short period of time could have an unintended effect in more rural settings.

“I am concerned about the fact that $15 is an arbitrary number that means a lot more in certain parts of the country than it does another,” said Rep. Dean Phillips (D-Minn.), who flipped a seat in 2018 that had been held by Republicans for years.

Read more: https://thehill.com/policy/finance/448499-centrist-democrats-raise-concerns-about-15-minimum-wage

[Apple Fritter]

1. A word salad to waste more time.

I am sure there are other ways to get there for the people but that require more time.This bill needs to happen in California, something needs to happen and that's the bottom line here. I live in one of the poor areas of CA and it's just so pitiful for some people who can't save. Same with the wealthy places and the effects of silicon valley. Not enough has been done to help people fight off the increase of living costs in CA. The more time we waste on "maybes" or "other solutions"the more time for things to get worse.

[Auggie]

2. Dilemma ...

I know some small business that this is really going to hurt. They're going to have to automate and lay-off employees. Some might change what they make all together, eliminating labor-intensive products for high-yielding ones.

I support an increase in wages but realize they do come with a huge price tag.

[marble falls]

4. Lets see: starving employees vs owners keeping their skiing vacations ...

Any small business that makes a living for its owner only by underpaying its workers means the owners thinks of employees as machines and the businesses are only viable by exploiting those who have no choices.

I'm beginning to agree with the candidate who wants to put out a $1,000/month subsidy for most people.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

28. Tough choice... NOT!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Auggie]

43. You don't know all the facts.

[marble falls]

45. What facts might those be? if a company can't be profitable without screwing the employess ...

it needs to close down.

[paleotn]

48. I wonder if they'd like this system better...

There's no minimum wage in Nordic countries. Nearly everyone is unionized down to fast food workers and the unions and business associations negotiate wages. In Denmark, averages are around $37K per year in US $'s for lowest skilled jobs. That ought to make their heads explode! I mean, god forbid a person is able to decently take care of themselves and their families no matter what curve balls life has dealt them. Beyond the increased economic activity by people who spend most of their earnings and positive psychological impact from being able to care for themselves, a higher wage limits their draw from the public dole. They should be overjoyed about that.

[marble falls]

57. But that is a new pardym, their heads'll explode!!!!!

[paleotn]

36. Not really.

It's phased in, just like similar legislation proposed here in Vermont. Seems it's worked in certain municipalities with no mass layoffs or demise of capitalism.

[Auggie]

44. You don't know all the facts.

[marble falls]

46. So enlighten us.

[Auggie]

47. I already did:

I know some small business that this is really going to hurt. They're going to have to automate and lay-off employees. Some might change what they make all together, eliminating labor-intensive products for high-yielding ones.

These people -- the smaller businesses -- are saving for their kids' college, not skiing vacations. Those who sell their products to wholesalers and "middlemen" have little control over final retail prices -- added expenses can't get passed along. What would you do? I'd cut production costs by automating or by making something that's not as labor intensive.

Had a long talk with a business group rep about this Tuesday. It's a dilemma, as I noted.

[paleotn]

49. Sorry, I'm still calling BS.

The majority of small businesses sell retail and their incremental labor costs are much lower than overhead and material costs...well, unless their a sewing sweat shop. And gee, when people have more money in their pockets...you know, those who actually spend most of their earnings...they're able to buy quality products from those same small businesses. In many cases they're able to actually shop at small businesses to begin with verses being locked into the depressed prices at massive discount chains. You know, those same massive companies who's labor costs are subsidized by government assistance, while a the same time employing armies of tax lawyers and accountants to avoid actually paying taxes to support said public assistance. It's small businesses who can't afford tax shelters and avoidance schemes who are paying for Walmart's labor subsidization.

Beyond the economics, which I can argue all week....it's simply the moral thing to do. We all benefit in ways that can't be enumerated by all of us being able to earn enough to care for ourselves and our families in a decent manner. Just the psychological benefits are enormous. One of the most significant drivers behind the opioid epidemic are people who've lost hope since they can't find a way out of wage slavery and reliance on public assistance.

[Auggie]

50. You don't know all the facts.

Last edited Sat Jun 15, 2019, 12:48 PM - Edit history (1)

Really -- you don't. I wish I could go into more detail but I gave my word I wouldn't -- there'd be too much knee-jerk reaction from good-meaning folks that would result in bad industry P.R.

I'll repeat it ONE MORE TIME -- I support the minimum wage. I understand the economics. The morality. But it's going to change the way SOME small business owners conduct their businesses. There will be SOME layoffs. There will be SOME automation. There will be MORE off-shoring. Their will be MORE imports.

Sadly, it's already in the works.

[marble falls]

56. BULLSHIT. And you have the secret agreement with Mexico in your pocket, too!

[Auggie]

58. But I like Stan and Ollie!

[marble falls]

59. I like Fran and Ollie ...

I'm dyslexic. And a prosopagnosiac as well.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

76. You get your information from a business group rep?

You don’t know all the facts.

[Auggie]

78. Believe what makes you happy. But more layoffs, automation and imports are coming.

Last edited Mon Jun 17, 2019, 02:17 PM - Edit history (1)

[Hassin Bin Sober]

79. Automation is coming regardless of what we do.

Might as well allow people a little dignity while we can.

Why don’t we cross that bridge when we come to it.

[The Bopper]

60. BS

Raising it fedarally will do exactly the opposite of what you say. If you think for a second that “those” businesses wouldn’t do what you said now. What reason do you want to give us for those who already have. Hiding behind this BS is just more turd salad to keep people poor.

[Auggie]

61. You don't know all the facts.

[Yeehah]

70. No one knows all the facts, Auggie

and only stupid people believe they do.

[Auggie]

72. Are you calling me stupid?

I'm not making his up. I know businesses that are planning to cut jobs and automate due to the minimum wage increase. Others are going to change their product line so it employs fewer people. I've spoken with the owners. This is in the process of happening.

[marble falls]

3. They're right: we really need a living wage. If works worth doing its worth being paid a living ...

wage. $15 is a living wage but not in most places. Here in Marble Falls, an unsubsidized efficiency apartment starts at over $900/month without utilities. A $2,400 gross a month (at $15/hr) is not going to pay for it. We have no public transportation. The list for public housing is a mile long and administered by a local real estate company who vets renters very tightly. Any sort of pot bust, even a roach will keep males from living there.

[Hoyt]

5. Don't know why they couldn't use some kind of cost-of-living adjustment. Medicare pays physicians

using a cost adjustment so that docs are paid less for same service in lower cost areas and more in higher cost areas.

[OKNancy]

6. I'm not a centrist and I oppose a blanket $15.00 an hour

I can see it in high cost of living states, but as a former small business person (dance school owner) in Oklahoma, that would be outrageous.
I paid my ballet teacher $40.00 per hour, but no way would I pay her teen helper $15.00.

[TexasBushwhacker]

7. I'm sure it would be phased in over a few years

and they could put a lower ceiling for teen workers. As a former high school teacher, I don't want a high minimum wage to encourage kids to drop out.

[Turin_C3PO]

15. $15/hr is hardly an unreasonable wage.

I live in New Mexico, which is low cost of living similar to Oklahoma and I think $31,000 a year is very fair for anyone working full time. Remember, it’s not just teens who work for minimum wage. Around here, it’s mostly adults who work those jobs. Maybe they could make an exception to the law for teens, I don’t know.

If a business can’t pay a fair living wage then they don’t have a right to exist, period.

[paleotn]

37. Since teen helpers...

spend virtually everything they earn, it's an economic stimulus. Increased disposable income allows more to afford your dance school.

[Bradical79]

63. How much do you make? -nt

[OKNancy]

66. If you read my post... it says former

I retired in 2010. You know why? The recession of 2008 hit my business hard. Also my accountant said I should have been a non-profit because I paid my teacher too much! People in the arts are always struggling.

[Humanist_Activist]

71. So a retired business owner opposes wage increases!?!

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you!

Your opinion, in reality, is counter productive, and that's putting it....kindly.

[OKNancy]

73. If you read my original post I did not say I opposed wage increases

I said a blanket raise. It should be based on cost of living and have some mechanism for teen employees.
In addition, you are trying to paint me as some sort of uncaring tycoon. I owned a ballet school.
I never made a huge living for myself, in fact my top teacher made more than me the last few years.
The reason is I gave raises every year and two teachers worked for me for more than 20 years.

But, you just keep being all judgmental, and I'll keep being the kind, well-loved former teacher who my ex-students and teachers seem to admire.

[Humanist_Activist]

74. Why a provision for teenage workers? Many of them have families

to support. You sound hopelessly out of touch with the working class. In addition 15 dollars an hour isn't a lot.

[RandiFan1290]

75. Amen!

[shanny]

8. Dunno if I'd call that a "centrist"

or moderate position. Just sayin'

[George II]

9. Why didn't The Hill actually list the Democrats who are not ready yet to vote for it?

Could it be that the "centrist" tag for them may not be accurate?

[pecosbob]

16. Hear, hear!

The Hill lives up to it's reputation as tripe...

[redstatebluegirl]

26. Because their only mission is stirring things up in the Democratic Party.

Divide and conquer, there are so many entities that want us a divided party, we don't win that way. It is sometimes hard to discern who is against us and who is for us sometimes, but The Hill has been pretty consistent in stirring the pot.

[Hortensis]

52. THIS. Noting there are 27 official blue dogs in our house caucus.

Trust The Hill to spin for the right.

[DeminPennswoods]

10. Wages are quickly moving toward $15/hr

regardless. I live in a fairly low cost area and the local ALDI's starting pay is about $12/hr.

[Maxheader]

11. IMHO the increase is long overdue..but it needs to be implemented

with caution....You don't want businesses shutting their doors because
profits don't cover the wage increase...

[left-of-center2012]

12. "Centrist Democrats"

"Many of the holdouts are moderates ..."

I guess "Centrist Democrats" sounds scarier than "moderates" ?

[dchill]

29. It's Republican Lite.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

67. And we know how well that's worked in the past.

When given the choice between a Republican and an almost-Republican, people will almost always vote for the Republican.

The choice should be between clearly defined Republican values and clearly defined Democratic values. People want what we have to offer, when it's presented clearly. Those who try to play in the center of the highway become roadkill.

[GulfCoast66]

13. Where I live it is wrong not to pay $15 an hour

And many places are close to that now.

But in the county I deer hunt in Arkansas the medium income is actually less than $15 an hour. There a few large employers and expect for the Wal Marts most pay over that.

A majority of the people work for small business where the owners are hardly rich.

I not ready to declare my opposition to $15 an hour. But someone smarter than I will have to explain what these small owners can or will do. It’s not like the serve a rich or even middle class population.

Most of the promising young people leave for college never to return so brain drain is a real problem. Throw in the opioid and meth epidemic and they have intrenched problems. Care to guess how a large majority of the county votes?

[Lars39]

18. Just about every bit of that money would go back into the economy, and mostly locally.

Only the rich can hoard money.

[maxsolomon]

14. $15/hour is 31K/year.

I don't care what "lower cost" area you're in; that's barely enough to survive.

The GOP has held the minimum wage frozen for what, 2 decades? It's fucking $7.25/hour, or 15K/year.

Make up some sort of "training wage" exemption if you need to, but unskilled labor needs a bump. NOW.

[Progressive Jones]

34. It's not only "unskilled labor" making less than $15/hr. nt

[maxsolomon]

35. I didn't know the right term to use.

Sorry if I insulted you.

[Progressive Jones]

53. No offense taken. I make more than that. I was just passing along what I know. nt

[pecosbob]

17. Straight from the mouth of the 'Problem-Solvers'

https://www.lasvegasnow.com/news/local-news/new-law-will-increase-minimum-wage-for-nevada-workers/2071771098

[stuffmatters]

19. "Small business" owners who can't pay a living wage should not be in business.

So tired of this " but but but small business owners" dodge. If a business cannot pay a living wage, why should taxpayers support/subsidize them?
I had an arty small business for decades. I always paid employees generously plus full health insurance and
vacation leave. My business was widely beloved & appreciated in our community, treated like a public museum. Yet I would never have expected anyone but myself to pay my expenses, either by shortchanging my employees or stiffing the taxpayers.

[YOHABLO]

20. But waiters and waitresses still will make $2.13 an hour.

[maxsolomon]

21. is that in the proposal, or just your snark?

they make $15/hour in Seattle, plus tips/service charges.

[YOHABLO]

23. Not everyone has the opportunities that Seattle provides.

[maxsolomon]

30. yeah, not what I was asking you.

does this legislation propose to leave the tipped employee minimum wage unchanged?

[Progressive Jones]

33. Seattle got it right. nt

[VarryOn]

25. It's a good thing wait staff are included in the $15/hour...

Always bugged me that so many servers are excluded from minimum wage laws, just because they get tips.

Ive always been appalled at the poor tipping most Americans do. One of the things I always ask people when I meet and learn they wait tables is "what's the average tip?" Most of thenumbers I've heard ovee the years is around 10%. Personally, I never give less than 20%. It's just one of my way of trying to be generous to a group of people who could most use the help....and the math is easier than 15% or 18!

Just as a person has no business being in business if they cant pay their employees a solid wage, people shouldnt be eating at a sit-down restaurant if they cant be reasonably generous to the wait staff.

[maxsolomon]

31. the absurd $2.13 wage is why tips have escalated.

used to be 15% was fine. it still should be.

my daughter says she tips 20% on the post-tax total. I've told here that, given our 10% sales tax, that is >20%.

in seattle, we now have 20% "service charges" in many restaurants. I don't tip beyond that.

[VarryOn]

40. 15% is a fine tip...

My gut is the average tip falls around 10%. I catch myself noticing at restaurants, and I see lots of $5 bills. Many a time, my parents have picked up the check when my wife, son and I go out with them. My parents , who are retired and comfortably middle class and who always insist on picking up the check (average $100-125 or so) will pay in cash. And every damn time, my dad will throw down a $10 bill (he always pays in cash!), no matter what the bill costs. I then feel compelled to sneak a $10, $15 or $20 to go along with it.

He lets me pick up the check about half the time, but insists on picking up the tip. I'll add the tip when I pay with my debit...but let him put down his $10. He never knows I've also paid!

I admittedly have a hang up about tipping well! It's just a great way to directly help someone who generally is in a job where they work their ass off and need the help.

[MichMan]

64. When tipped employees receive the same wages as everyone else

I will no longer feel the need to tip. I tip now because I understand that is an integral part of their compensation.

I dont tip grocery cashiers, dry cleaning clerks, self serve gas station attendants, or auto parts store counter help. Once servers make the same base wages as these employees there will no longer be a need to tip which will be a much better, fairer system.

[paleotn]

38. tipped employee pay is outrageous..

and should have been fixed years ago.

[Polybius]

39. Thankfully only in a few states

NJ is one of them. Why won't they pass a state minimum wage increase for tipped employees? $2.13 is absurd.

[Yavin4]

22. When some ask why the base is not 100% enthusiatic about voting Democrat

This shit is why.

[YOHABLO]

24. I think that cost of living differs demographically.

[Kurt V.]

27. true that it may hurt some for a bit. Ultimately the hurt will be short and inconsequential overall

[Progressive Jones]

32. Why are "rural areas" always cited as a benchmark for everything? nt

[JI7]

42. because they are mostly white

[maxsolomon]

68. Bingo

Gold Star Comment

80% of America lives in cities and towns.

[McKim]

41. People Need to Afford a Decent Life!

People need to afford a decent life in this country, period. I am comfortable but it breaks my heart to see people struggling so and suffering and needy. I feel like I am living in a nightmare dystopia every time I take public transport. People look so hopeless and beaten down and pessimistic. Heartbreaking to see people working so hard they can’t be adequate parents and don’t earn enough, constantly stretched and stressed. This is plain wrong when all it takes is more money.
Wages have not gone up in soooo long!

[Hortensis]

51. 206 Democrats FOR, only 29 hesitating? Great!

12 more needed, get out the sausage skins. Like the fight over the speaker's seat, some of these "centrists" are no doubt just waiting for offers or responses to their demands.

[lapucelle]

54. That 29 mentioned in the story are not necessarily hesitating on the vote;

that's the number of Democrats who are not co-sponsors.

Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.), a Progressive Caucus co-chair, said there are some Democrats who aren’t co-sponsors of the bill but have committed to voting for it.

[Hortensis]

55. Oh, gotcha. Looked at the wrong number. Better still.

[Bradical79]

62. I just hit a maximum wage of $14.70 after 14 years

No more raises of any kind for me. Really need this someday soon.

[JonLP24]

65. They're not very bright

Minimum wage is popular in the red states which I thought was the point of being a centrist to find things that are popular in red states.

[ROB-ROX]

69. Better Wages Means Better Country

Poor Wages Means POOR country. Only when people are properly paid will this country become better then a cess pool society. I think there should be a limit that NOBODY is paid more then the president. The over paid rich bastards will hate this policy. The extra cash can be sent to the POOR. I am doing alright $$ but family members require better wages........

[Freethinker65]

77. I live in one of the areas in Cook county outside of Chicago that opted out of an increase in MW

The Cook County ordinance included a probation/trial period for new employees and exemption for teens (for reduced MW) as well as incremental increases in minimum wage over a few years.

I was, and still am, very angry about my village and surrounding villages opting out. However, there were some interesting points made by the side that won out.

The most compelling was from a small local business owner that already paid slightly over $15/hour. The concern was if business owners doing similar would be able to retain their excellent employees if all jobs now paid similar? What happens to the employees currently already making over $15? Will they continue to be satisfied with their current wages knowing they could start out anywhere for nearly the same wage with perhaps less skill? This would affect a lot of employees if done on a national scale especially in those areas where the MW is currently 7.25/hour.