Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
58 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
DOJ Lawyers Who Had Represented Government in Census Case are Being Replaced: An Ominous Development (Original Post) Gothmog Jul 2019 OP
found em new set who are willing to risk throwing away their licenses for Trump... Thomas Hurt Jul 2019 #1
Right elleng Jul 2019 #2
No career types would want to be involved in this shipwreck Gothmog Jul 2019 #8
Right. USED to be that working for DoJ was among the BEST reference for future jobs; elleng Jul 2019 #9
More mini-Barrs. calimary Jul 2019 #32
Census farce: Trump, Barr and the Justice Department make a mockery of the law Gothmog Jul 2019 #50
This will backfire on Republicans. Iliyah Jul 2019 #3
nothing backfires on them because tRumps base loves it nt yaesu Jul 2019 #6
Yes it does. Iliyah Jul 2019 #10
This is so true. Trump's cult is willing to let him get by with anything Arkansas Granny Jul 2019 #12
It has come down to if "Libs like or want it-destroy it." StClone Jul 2019 #36
there are more of us than there are of them. GOTV! TeamPooka Jul 2019 #34
WTF??? a kennedy Jul 2019 #4
For Donald, Carnival Barker, it's all about marketing, and this is desperation pure and simple bucolic_frolic Jul 2019 #5
Do you mean... SergeStorms Jul 2019 #37
Roberts worries me bucolic_frolic Jul 2019 #40
And it doesn't matter if it's so blatant? nt babylonsister Jul 2019 #7
Are you surprised? Gothmog Jul 2019 #11
No. Not even. babylonsister Jul 2019 #15
From Dale Ho of the ACLU Gothmog Jul 2019 #13
More on the Clusterf...k DOJ attempt to satisfy the Orange Menace hlthe2b Jul 2019 #14
Consumer protection branch lawyers? Gothmog Jul 2019 #17
pretty soon it will fall to the receptionist who has watched the most legal shows on tv... hlthe2b Jul 2019 #18
"I KNEW those hours of Law and Order SVU would pay off!" tishaLA Jul 2019 #22
Another job for Jared! DeminPennswoods Jul 2019 #25
or...Ivanka could show up with a legal pad and a flip of her hair to really wow 'em. Captain Zero Jul 2019 #39
Has Tiffany finished law school yet? MissB Jul 2019 #47
Clustertrump underpants Jul 2019 #27
yup... fitting... hlthe2b Jul 2019 #28
Actually, it makes sense (for this misadministration, anyway) SeattleVet Jul 2019 #38
Barr: Trump Admin Has 'Pathway' To Get Citizenship Question Back On Census Gothmog Jul 2019 #49
More attorneys are withdrawing Gothmog Jul 2019 #56
A couple of thoughts extracted from Jennifer Taub's Twitter page.... KY_EnviroGuy Jul 2019 #16
Neal Katyal is curious Gothmog Jul 2019 #19
Unfortunately, Neal Katyal got us into this mess. EndGOPPropaganda Jul 2019 #26
Oh damn. Duppers Jul 2019 #41
It's sad :( EndGOPPropaganda Jul 2019 #54
is there no end to the number of people willing to disgrace themselves for that vile piece of shit?? Skittles Jul 2019 #20
Seemingly no. Remember 35-40 of the voting public KPN Jul 2019 #23
Considering They Could be Facing Disbarment for Repeated Lying to the Court dlk Jul 2019 #21
Sometimes a Justice Department lawyer must just say 'no' Gothmog Jul 2019 #48
A political appointee/ex Jones Day partner leaving census case Gothmog Jul 2019 #24
Speaker Pelosi has this, no worries, watoos Jul 2019 #29
She is not going to impeach because the Senate is not going to convict. marylandblue Jul 2019 #31
Without 20 GOP Senate votes, impeachment is a waste of time Gothmog Jul 2019 #42
Someone in the thread raised the question about Ilsa Jul 2019 #30
May not need to. See, the very first thing the new ones will ask for is a long continuance to.... machoneman Jul 2019 #57
I hope this crashes and burns, but.. forgotmylogin Jul 2019 #33
Executive Order . . Iliyah Jul 2019 #35
An executive order cannot over rule SCOTUS ruling Gothmog Jul 2019 #43
Since the Constitution places the Census BlueIdaho Jul 2019 #44
From Prof. Tribe Gothmog Jul 2019 #45
Washington Post-Opinion: Trump's corruption is getting worse. Gothmog Jul 2019 #46
Why is Barr transferring responsibility for the census cases to the DOJ Consumer Protection Branch? mahatmakanejeeves Jul 2019 #51
Edith Jones is a very nasty and conservative judge on the 5th Cir Gothmog Jul 2019 #52
Wouldn't it be easier to just replace the president? dchill Jul 2019 #53
Plaintiffs have moved to block old DOJ attorney's leaving case Gothmog Jul 2019 #55
A second federal judge has refused to let attorneys withdraw Gothmog Jul 2019 #58

elleng

(130,832 posts)
9. Right. USED to be that working for DoJ was among the BEST reference for future jobs;
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 08:44 PM
Jul 2019

MANY disappointed by today's goings-on.

Gothmog

(145,046 posts)
50. Census farce: Trump, Barr and the Justice Department make a mockery of the law
Mon Jul 8, 2019, 04:08 PM
Jul 2019

there are some lawyers who need to worry about their careers https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/07/07/census-farce-trump-barr-doj-make-mockery-law/?utm_term=.08e03966936c

The entire debacle raises serious questions about the credibility and honesty of the Justice Department. “The Trump administration lied to the courts about the real reason for the citizenship question. And they got caught by the Supreme Court,” Mimi Rocah, a former federal prosecutor, tells me. “Now Trump has directed DOJ lawyers to come up with some other lie. No DOJ lawyer should sacrifice her integrity with the courts for this or any administration.”

Trump’s contempt for the rule of law and blatant dishonesty would not continue without the help of underlings. And they must do some serious soul-searching. “There are some things no DOJ lawyer can do. One of those is make arguments in court that are untrue in order to benefit the political whims of a president,” Joyce White Vance, a former prosecutor, says. “If DOJ’s leadership, the [attorney general,] the deputy AG, the solicitor general and the head of the Civil Division [don’t want to be] complicit in violating the duty of candor DOJ lawyers owe to the court, then they should resign on principle and in protest.”

They won’t resign en masse, of course, because the professional and ethical expectations have been so diminished in this administration that the unimaginable is now standard operating procedure for both political appointees and career lawyers.

“Make no mistake: The government lawyers — appointees and civil servants alike — who are spending this weekend trying to cleanse the record of this fact and salvage this plan are employing their legal skills in the service of white power,” Bassin says. “That’s not just a violation of their oath of office, it’s an abdication of the basic morality on which we all as human beings are ultimately judged. They don’t have to do this. We all make choices.”

Arkansas Granny

(31,513 posts)
12. This is so true. Trump's cult is willing to let him get by with anything
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 08:48 PM
Jul 2019

as long as they think he's "sticking it to the libs". They don't see or don't care what he is doing to the rule of law or the reputation of the U.S. throughout the world.

StClone

(11,683 posts)
36. It has come down to if "Libs like or want it-destroy it."
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 11:22 PM
Jul 2019

They have no real belief system other than power, money, fear and hate. Basic instincts.

bucolic_frolic

(43,115 posts)
5. For Donald, Carnival Barker, it's all about marketing, and this is desperation pure and simple
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 08:35 PM
Jul 2019

Changing horses in midstream. Any judge who bends to this will be laughed off his bench by his colleagues.

SergeStorms

(19,190 posts)
37. Do you mean...
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 11:23 PM
Jul 2019

like all five conservative judges on the Supreme Court? They'll eat a bucket-full of Trump's shit just so he'll say, "Nice job, boys"!

bucolic_frolic

(43,115 posts)
40. Roberts worries me
Mon Jul 8, 2019, 06:01 AM
Jul 2019

He defers to power and the President, as he did in legalizing Obamacare. He could do the same here, rationalize a citizenship question as the perogative of the incumbent President or the power of the Presidency.

But hackles await any kowtow after so much wrangling and rejection by so many judges, and the previous reasons given to attempt to legitimize the question. You can't erase this case's history.

hlthe2b

(102,192 posts)
14. More on the Clusterf...k DOJ attempt to satisfy the Orange Menace
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 08:55 PM
Jul 2019
This is really intriguing. Looks like maybe the leadership of DOJ Federal Programs (which usually would have representation here) declined to go along with this farce, but Consumer Protection Branch (!) volunteered to take over.



Per a DOJ official (declined to be ID'd), the new team in the census litigation will include a mix of political appointees and career lawyers, drawing more from the Consumer Protection Branch, as opposed to Federal Programs. Official declined to get into the *why*


tishaLA

(14,176 posts)
22. "I KNEW those hours of Law and Order SVU would pay off!"
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 09:35 PM
Jul 2019

"....and I'd like to thank Mariska Hargitay."

SeattleVet

(5,477 posts)
38. Actually, it makes sense (for this misadministration, anyway)
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 11:33 PM
Jul 2019

Send lawyers from the Consumer Protection Branch, which he wants to strip to the bare bones.

These lawyers get caught lying to the court, they get sanctioned, and ... tRump suddenly has fewer people protecting consumers.

I wonder what 'incentives' he had to offer them to put their careers on the line like this.

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,489 posts)
16. A couple of thoughts extracted from Jennifer Taub's Twitter page....
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 09:03 PM
Jul 2019

Texts:

Noah @DefToolNIN
8:32 PM - Jul 7, 2019

Bottom line: If attorney’s don’t argue this case as Wilbur Ross did, they will be contradicting his testimony which will expose him to perjury.

Because Ross LIED about the reason for the census question, they will either lose, or concede that Ross committed perjury.

===============

Geriatric Millenial JD @Errorreporrt
8:12 PM - Jul 7, 2019

The explanation is they didn't want to be sanctioned when they came back to a judge and told them they were apparently lying about the time restraints.

-------------

KY.......... ........

Skittles

(153,138 posts)
20. is there no end to the number of people willing to disgrace themselves for that vile piece of shit??
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 09:24 PM
Jul 2019

KPN

(15,641 posts)
23. Seemingly no. Remember 35-40 of the voting public
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 09:36 PM
Jul 2019

supports Donald tRump, and that is based principally in whit male supremacy and fascist ideology.

dlk

(11,540 posts)
21. Considering They Could be Facing Disbarment for Repeated Lying to the Court
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 09:27 PM
Jul 2019

They’re hoping to save their careers, or what will be left of them.

Gothmog

(145,046 posts)
48. Sometimes a Justice Department lawyer must just say 'no'
Mon Jul 8, 2019, 04:00 PM
Jul 2019

From the Washington Post https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/07/08/somtimes-doj-lawyer-must-just-say-no/?utm_term=.8047534f232a

Mimi Rocah, a former prosecutor, surmises: “There are DOJ lawyers not willing to lose their integrity with the courts for Trump. I’m proud to see that. And judges will notice too.”

Others agree that swapping out lawyers is highly unusual. “It’s extraordinary and downright bizarre to see the government parachute in new lawyers at this late stage of the litigation,” says legal scholar Joshua Matz. “If past is prologue, this may indicate that we’re about to see some extremely sketchy moves that the existing team was unwilling to take for professional or reputational reasons.” That the administration would have to go so far afield, to recruit consumer protection lawyers, “suggests that the entire federal programs branch of the Justice Department is unwilling to defend whatever the administration plans to file.”

This is not the first time in this presidency a set of lawyers has dropped out of a case brought on specious grounds. In the case seeking to invalidate the entire Affordable Care Act, three career attorneys withdrew without signing onto a brief many considered legally preposterous.....

Not to put too fine a point on it, but what these lawyers do will have profound consequences for the country and their careers. Constitutional scholar Larry Tribe warns, “The Department of Justice cannot avoid the long-term credibility cost to its litigating posture of contradicting itself in successive filings simply by changing the names of the career DOJ lawyers on the pleadings or by bringing new faces into court. If that’s the aspiration, it’s not going to succeed.”

The new team of lawyers should think very carefully before accepting an assignment from an attorney general not above misrepresenting the work of a special counsel or adopting the role of the president’s private counsel.
 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
29. Speaker Pelosi has this, no worries,
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 10:03 PM
Jul 2019

When Trump defies 3 or 4 court orders we will have a very, very, strong case for impeachment.

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
31. She is not going to impeach because the Senate is not going to convict.
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 10:48 PM
Jul 2019

The Senate is not going to convict because they have given Trump carte blanche. They have given Trump carte blanche because he may create a permanent Republican ruling elite. If he succeeds, good. If he fails, they all run for cover and they are no worse off than they were before.

They don't care what history thinks of them because history doesn't vote or make campaign contributions.

Ilsa

(61,691 posts)
30. Someone in the thread raised the question about
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 10:05 PM
Jul 2019

whether the census lawyers can convince the judge to disapprove of the attorneys being replaced.

machoneman

(4,006 posts)
57. May not need to. See, the very first thing the new ones will ask for is a long continuance to....
Mon Jul 8, 2019, 10:51 PM
Jul 2019

...get up to speed on the case. This would be a direct refutation of the earlier arguments that time was of the essence and damn the court's priorities in 'jumping' the case. It's a fool's paradise for sure but just watch for this or even more ludicrous steps they will take.

forgotmylogin

(7,522 posts)
33. I hope this crashes and burns, but..
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 11:02 PM
Jul 2019

if they do manage to include the question, I think the judge should also require them to include a "No answer." option. Or at least instruct the census-takers to honor no answer/refusal to answer for that question and leave it blank. Same as "Ethnicity" which on most forms usually has a "prefer not to answer" box.

If enough people just don't answer it, the data will be useless to them.

Iliyah

(25,111 posts)
35. Executive Order . .
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 11:19 PM
Jul 2019

Hopefully be tied up in court. Republicans again - nada.

They fear they are running out of time. Ya think since for many years they always claimed patriotism, it was always the reverse.

BlueIdaho

(13,582 posts)
44. Since the Constitution places the Census
Mon Jul 8, 2019, 11:15 AM
Jul 2019

Under the control of congress - can an executive order ever really be legit?

Gothmog

(145,046 posts)
46. Washington Post-Opinion: Trump's corruption is getting worse.
Mon Jul 8, 2019, 03:02 PM
Jul 2019



The Justice Department just announced that it will swap out the lawyers who are representing the administration in the legal battle over the effort to add a citizenship question to the 2020 Census. This battle continues because Trump ordered the administration to keep fighting to add the question, even though officials had surrendered after the Supreme Court ruled against it.

As The Post reports, the change in the legal team might signal “legal or ethical concerns” about Trump’s handling of the affair. One source said such concerns were harbored by some “career attorneys.”

It gets worse. A Justice Department lawyer tells the New York Times that due to the switch, no lawyers from the division that defends administration policies in court — the federal programs branch — will be working on the case.

The Times adds that the move strongly suggests that career lawyers “decided to quit a case that at the least seemed to lack a legal basis,” or worse, could force them to defend statements that “could well turn out to be untrue.”

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,370 posts)
51. Why is Barr transferring responsibility for the census cases to the DOJ Consumer Protection Branch?
Mon Jul 8, 2019, 05:37 PM
Jul 2019
Prof. Garrett Epps Retweeted

1/ Why is AG Barr transferring responsibility for the census cases to the DOJ Consumer Protection Branch, given that its functions have nothing to do with the census? Watch for the name David Morrell, recently appointed to be Deputy Assistant AAG in charge of the CP Branch.



2/ Morrell clerked for Edith Jones and Clarence Thomas--then worked at Jones Day and in the White House Counsel's Office. No surprise he'd be in charge. Watch for whether any career lawyers agree to join, and whether OSG is on-board, despite its earlier representations re: 06/30.



More on the SG and the deadline here:


Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»DOJ Lawyers Who Had Repre...