Barr's call for U.S. control of 5G providers quickly rebuked

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press


Tali Arbel, Ap Technology Writer
Updated 4:37 pm CST, Friday, February 7, 2020

NEW YORK (AP) — Trump administration officials, increasingly intent on preventing Chinese global technological domination, keep floating the idea that the U.S. government should take a more direct hand in running next-generation 5G wireless networks.

But the notion isn't terribly popular — not even within the administration.

On Thursday, Attorney General William Barr said the U.S. government should consider taking a “ controlling stake ” in the European companies Nokia and Ericsson to thwart the global ambitions of China-based Huawei, which holds a leading share of the market for 5G wireless equipment. The federal government could do so directly or via a consortium of U.S. companies and private investors, Barr said.

The backlash didn't take long. In an interview on CNBC Friday, Vice President Mike Pence said "the best way forward" on 5G relies on private enterprise, not government takeovers. The Federal Communications Commission, which regulates the nation's airwaves, already plans to auction off additional radio spectrum for 5G.

. . .

Depending on how you count it, Barr's speech is the second or third time people in Trump's administration or 2020 campaign have suggested direct federal involvement in 5G networks, which boast faster speeds and promise a variety of new applications. Barr suggested in his speech that 5G speeds will turn wireless networks into “the central nervous system of the next generation of internet, called the ‘Industrial Internet,’” with potentially dramatic economic consequences.


Read more: https://www.chron.com/business/technology/article/Barr-s-call-for-U-S-control-of-5G-providers-15039309.php

[Initech]

1. Sure, control the networks and the flow of information. It's the next step toward fascism.

[Hotler]

14. +1 nt

[reACTIONary]

16. Or, perhaps...

... socialism.

[Initech]

22. Conservatives want to control social media, no question.

They can't stand it when they get banned for saying the racist or sexist things that they do. Getting control of the networks would allow them to control who gets banned, would it not?

[WA-03 Democrat]

27. Every "generation" is already cracked

They just don’t want the Chinese to have the backdoors.

[Progressive Jones]

2. K & R. This is important to keep an eye on. nt

[rurallib]

6. Very true - seems we see a headline like this and it seems a bit goofy

and then 6 months down the road it is policy

[Scotch-Irish]

3. I'M NOT DEFENDING BARR OR TRUMP...but there has been talk with EFF people that China is

embedding certain spyware in a lot of the technology that shuts it down if you try to remove it. That's what the hoopla is about.

[TomVilmer]

4. The Chinese company Huawei's products are some of the most scrutinized in the world.

I have "heard" about that spyware claim too, but seen no proof. For all I know, the fight against Chinese equipment is basically a trade war, combined with problems for NSA's own surveillance:

The Huawei Cyber Security Evaluation Centre (HCSEC), in Banbury is essentially a secure lab where Huawei allows UK officials to scour its hardware looking for malicious code. The last two annual reports have been critical of Huawei, but not for eavesdropping on network traffic through its products. The concerns? They all revolve around having buggy code.
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/uk-5g-network-huawei

NSA reportedly hacked Huawei as part of an operation launched in 2007. The plan involved stealing source code for some of Huawei's products in the hope of finding vulnerabilities. Such security holes could allow the NSA to exploit the products and spy on traffic in countries where Huawei equipment is used.
https://www.wired.com/2014/03/how-huawei-became-nsa-nightmare/

[paleotn]

8. Buggy code....

We don't need Chinese imports for that. We're quite adept at it ourselves.

Complex issue and I've not yet formed a solid opinion. Scare tactics tend to raise my suspicions of those doing the scaring and I wouldn't believe Barr if he told me the sun rises in the east. But, then again, the mission of Chinese companies isn't always like western corporations... to make money. Sometimes it's to advance the interests of the Chinese state, whether said Chinese business wants to or not. One thing is for sure though, 5G is coming ready or not so we'd best form rational policies to govern its impact.

[TomVilmer]

13. 5G is a bad solution for a nonexistent problem

Western corporations is like Chinese companies in one particular sense. Both need to make money, and both have to advance the interests of their country, including cooperating with military intelligence.

UK just got a very frustrated phone call from Trump, since they will continue to use some equipment from Huawei. But they will still limit the use and use others more, which will cost an estimated price of around 650 million dollars extra over the next five years - for just ONE of their telecom companies...

[paleotn]

21. Difference is

US corporations have rule of law behind them to a degree... at least for the time being. The Chinese don’t have such scruples. The law is whatever the Chinese government says it is.

[reACTIONary]

17. +10! FYI - This isn't a code issue...

... the concern is with integrated circuits - more specifically ASICs, "Application Specific Integrated Circuits", which 5G will rely on. The security of ASICs is much harder to verify than the security of code, which can be much more easily inspected and tested. With a pervasive presence in the world wide communications infrastructure, a malicious circuit can be a much more serious problem than malicious or defective software.

[paleotn]

20. Interesting. Thanks!

[DivByZero]

19. The Big Hack: How China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate U.S. Companies

Well, then you may not recall these headlines, and that infiltration went on for years!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies

[TomVilmer]

23. I do recall that story, but...

also the followups. They said the tech might be possible, but this example was without evidence and highly unlikely - not conlusive and unsubstantiated.

I live in Europe, where we had to develop security measures against wire tapping etc as the Privacy Shield and fight for the right of encryption of our very own data. That was not against China, but the United States.

But as I wrote, I am totally sure that also China can and do use such tricks.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

5. Gubmnt stake in companies to control them? Isn't that Nazional Socializm?

[Lonestarblue]

7. What law allows a president to use taxpayer dollars to buy stakes in foreign companies?

I can see private companies buying a stake, but Barr said the US government should take a controlling stake. How is that even legal?

[paleotn]

9. That's sticky.

Republicans threw and absolute fit when the US government gave loans to GM, taking a majority equity position in exchange. That was worrisome, but was necessary at the time. Not sure what US law is on foreign corporation stock, but I'd imagine their home countries might have a serious problem with it. I seriously doubt Finland would appreciate a large US position in Nokia, their flagship corporation.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

10. Automakers paid back the loans. Will farmers like Sen Grassley pay back payments tRump gave them?

Bribes for his base for his failed trade wars.

[paleotn]

11. And the treasury department made a nice profit on the deal.

It was necessary at the time, and better than just handing GM the money. Either way, GM had to be bailed out. There was simply no other way and that's government's job. But, direct government control of a private corporation is sticky. It's dangerous and should only be done unless absolutely necessary. I shudder at the thought of IQ45 being able to directly dictate the actions of Microsoft or Apple as a major shareholder.

[Maxheader]

12. Oh! Oh!

Stumpy admin gets bitch slapped by business...

We the taxpayers give them a trillion dollar tax cut, and they won't allow us to possibly get an upgrade to our broadband and telephone service...

[ancianita]

15. Now that corporate law rules and government doesn't, the regime is more clearly defined.

Media in the world's largest tax haven and corporate campus will show off all this fake government vs real corporate money as their new news.

Constitutional politics will be old school.

Corporate and finance now control more money than do world governments.

So corporate rules.

[SWBTATTReg]

18. Control of 5G and specs, etc.? Trying to control the content/format/etc. of 5G standards is ...

definitely way beyond the grasp and capabilities of the rump cronies in the FCC or the like.

Generations of data transmission such as 5G etc. rely on industry knowledge of prior generations (e.g., 4G, 3G, etc.) and why changes within 5G are being sought after. To set these standards, one must have serious knowledge of prior generations (4G, 3G, etc.), and why are the 5G enhancements are being sought.

The government fails miserably in the knowledge of these technologies. And they want to control them? One serious stumbling block that they seem to overlook (Barr and Pence, others) is that these technologies aren't going to be instantly implemented 100%. It costs tons of money, takes tons of time to implement, and developing APPs to use the 5G capabilities takes tons of time and development money. Way longer than these guys will ever be around for.

The only reason these two (Pence, Barr, and probably others) are moaning is because the 'Chinese' are involved. I suspect strongly (as all standards are) way more than the Chinese are involved in setting these standards (for prior versions such as 4G, 3G, etc., as well as the 5G standards). Standards must be set so equipment manufacturers, software developers, etc. can develop the hardware to do this actual stuff.

From an old data transmission and/or IT guy...

[andym]

24. Thing is that Barr's suggestion is very un-Conservative

so it's not surprising that he is getting some resistance from others in Trump's administration. The idea of private enterprise and capitalism is supposed to be the "right" way. OTOH, it exemplifies a different right-wing idea: fascism--one that Trump seems to want to embrace.

[ck4829]

25. K&R

[Blues Heron]

26. So we're all supposed to go out and buy a new phone for what?

What's so great about it, it's just a little faster right?