Botswana Selling Licenses To Kill Elephants At $39,000 A Head

[packman]

Source: Huffingfon Post

Botswana has auctioned off permits that will allow hunters to kill elephants for some $39,000 a head, infuriating environmentalists and animal lovers around the globe.

The pricey permit system will allow hunters to kill 70 elephants.

The permit auction was arranged by Auction It Ltd. on behalf of the government on Friday in packages of 10 elephants, according to a document viewed by Bloomberg. The packages are purchased by expedition operators which then sell them to trophy hunters at a profit. Most trophy hunters in southern Africa come from the U.S., according to Bloomberg.

...
All but one of the packages have been sold, Bloomberg reported.

African conservationist organizations that wanted to bid on the permits and not shoot the elephants were banned from participating, The Independent reported.



Read more: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/botswana-elephant-hunting-permits_n_5e3f7b7fc5b6b70887015580

---

Most of the trophy hunter come from the U.S. and conservationist who wanted to bid and NOT shoot the elephants were banned from, basically, saving some of the elephants.

Makes me ashamed of being an American and angry that Botswana wants to have them killed. That flushes the argument that those fees charged for licenses go to protect animal sanctuaries. Seems as if they just want to satisfy some assholes desire to kill something big with their big guns, big egos and big pocketbooks.

[Coventina]

1. Wait, so you're saying conservationists were not allowed to buy permits??!?!?!

That is just fucking, indescribable evil!

AND FUCK FUCK FUCK TROPHY HUNTERS!!!



on edit: clarity

[mr_lebowski]

77. Lol ... your original version was unclear?

This make me fucking FURIOUS too ...

All I can hope is that the Botswana Government at least uses some of this money to contribute to the health of the remaining herds ... still sad and sick though.

[Coventina]

84. Heh, yeah, initially I left out the word "not" in my post title.

[area51]

2. Well, I guess the Trump boys will be applying for licenses.

[atreides1]

4. Fingers crossed

I hope they both get stomped by a rogue elephant...along with any Secret Service asshats who are with them!!!

[Jedi Guy]

5. Yeah, fuck those Secret Service guys for doing their job! How dare they!

[Scarsdale]

7. Oh, Beavis and Butthead tRump likely

already have their permits, courtesy of taxpayer funding no doubt. Why not, since it is not as though they have actual j-o-b-s to attend to. Can't the SS agents apply for transfers to another position? Sorry, but I could not stomach working and protecting any member of this vile family. Low life grifters.

[Coventina]

10. Thank you!! n/t

[Jedi Guy]

11. I wouldn't be fond of doing it, either.

That said, it's their job. Maybe they can apply for a transfer, maybe they can't, but someone is gonna have to do it, at the end of the day. Wishing that they get trampled by an elephant because they happen to be in the orbit of a member of the Trump family is, to be blunt, fucked up and wrong-headed.

[christx30]

15. Someone doesn't have to do it.

Anyone can resign any job if doing it is morally repugnant to them. I wouldn’t be a cop. I wouldn’t work for trump in any fashion. No one is holding a gun to their heads. If they’re doing it, it means they are ok with it and him. I have no respect for anyone willing to take a bullet for these people.

[Jedi Guy]

17. Given how difficult and competitive it is to be on the protective detail, I wouldn't quit.

It takes years and years of training and discipline to become a special agent with the Secret Service. I wouldn't walk away from that because an asshat became President. I'd grit my teeth and tough it out until he was out of office rather than throw away everything I've worked for my entire life. The oath is to the office, not the person.

[Polybius]

25. A Secret Service job is very hard to get

It's high paying, you travel a lot for free, and don't even have to pay for food on the job. I'd trade in my USP job in a second for it.

[pandr32]

13. I agree

First off, you are correct about how we are likely paying for the permits and entourage.
Secondly, DT is expanding SS detail to cover his whole family--all off at different places around the world as they profit off the presidency for their own gain.

[keithbvadu2]

12. They can just take more money from charities for veterans and children.

They can just take more money from charities for veterans and children.

[democratisphere]

3. Evil is consuming this planet.

[marble falls]

6. Put the Trump twins - Beavis and Butthead - down for three, so that'll be one each.

[Yeehah]

8. Elephants deserve to live more than greedy, stupid humans

Sometimes I hate my entire species for what we are doing to the biosphere.

[Kurt V.]

53. +1

[CountAllVotes]

9. I cry for the elephants of the world

One by one We the People allow them to be brutally slaughtered!

When will enough be enough? Must we wait for total extinction to find out?



& recommend.

[NickB79]

14. Botswana's elephant population has tripled in the past 30 yr

To the point they now number over 160,000 and are destroying farmer's fields.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/23/botswana-lifts-ban-on-hunting-elephants

While I oppose elephant hunting due to their near-sentient intelligence, I do see the need to find ways to manage and prevent human-elephant conflicts. If their numbers keep growing at their current rate, this is impossible. Either hunting or some form of contraception will be required.

[Coventina]

19. We must kill the elephants to save them!!!!

Humans are the ones overpopulating the planet, not elephants.

[NickB79]

20. We are overpopulating the planet, but refuse to do anything

Trying to discuss human population control is anathema, even on a liberal discussion forum such as DU.

So the elephants get the short end of the stick.

[Coventina]

21. Yes, it enrages me.

I hate my species.

[mr_lebowski]

79. Team Corona, United! nt

[Coventina]

85. .

[HarlanPepper]

29. +1

Humanity is a virus.

[mr_lebowski]

78. You can definitely discuss it with me and Coventina ...

We're Team Corona, right 'Tina?

[milestogo]

39. There are only 2 million people in Botswana and 130,000 elephants.

Elephants living in close proximity to human beings trample gardens, destroy trees, and kill people. They are incredibly destructive. There is no easy way to move 5-6 ton animals or to keep them off your property.

Last summer I read a story about a woman in Botswana who lost her husband and her garden in one night. Her husband was crushed by the elephant while trying to defend their food supply. If any of us had to deal with that kind of threat on a daily basis, we might understand why some people favor limited elephant hunting.

Nothing is as simple as it seems.

[Coventina]

40. No, not really. We are over-populating the planet. Every biologist will tell you so.

Any "threat" posed by elephants to humans is laughable compared to what they suffer from us.

[milestogo]

41. Botswana is by no means overpopulated.

[Coventina]

42. Elephants are by no means overpopulated. n/t

[milestogo]

43. You're deliberately ignoring the particulars of the situation.

Do you believe in democracy? Do you believe that African democracies have the right to solve their own problems in their own ways? Why should you decide what is right for the country of Botswana?

[Coventina]

44. I despise anyone who kills animals for sport. I despise anyone who kills an

endangered or threatened species.

They may have the "right" to do it, but it is morally reprehensible.

[milestogo]

47. Do you eat meat?

I don't, but I'm far from despising people who do.

[Coventina]

52. No, I do not. n/t

[AtheistCrusader]

60. They're not killing them for sport.

The Botswana government will likely kill them in any case. This is an opportunity for them to raise some cash rather than just shooting them outright.

[Coventina]

62. Are the hunters going to eat them? If not, it's for sport and despicable. n/t

[AtheistCrusader]

65. I assume they won't.

Normally in this situation, they'll donate the meat to the local residents, because the hunters are unlikely to be interested in that kind of meat.

But I think you mistook my meaning. The government is going to kill these animals either way. They're just auctioning the rights to do it, to people who will be willing to pay to do so.

The only moral issue I see with it, is that it foments a market in which there is demand. But otherwise, this is game management/conservation, based on what I have seen.

That said, even as a hunter (I DO eat meat from birds/deer) I would never hunt an elephant. Hell, I don't even eat Octopus, due to the innate intelligence of the animal, and given recent discoveries about even cows, I might end up a vegetarian in a few years.

[Coventina]

66. There is no good reason to be killing these elephants. None.

Elephant populations, even in Botswana, have not recovered to historic norms.

They are doing this purely out of human selfishness and it is horrific and despicable.

[AtheistCrusader]

67. They will never recover to historic norms.

The ecosystem as it existed then, has been changed. Humans have expanded developed areas and farmland, and they are in conflict.

As an American, given we cut the tops of entire mountains off to burn coal, and dam up enormous tracts of fish habitat for power, and inject poison into our groundwater to free up natural gas...

I'm not sure I'm in a position to lecture other nations about how they manage their natural resources.

[Coventina]

69. As a human, who expects humans to behave with "humanity" I criticize any and all nations

in failing to be humane toward their fellow creatures.

[Hangingon]

93. Probably the meat will go to Botswana poor.

[flamingdem]

33. SO LET THE CONSERVATIONISTS BUY THEM - they can move them elsewhere!!

Don't spread that idea here that it's for any reason other than to allow blood sport for the elite.

[packman]

36. Did you read the article?

The government WON'T let them buy the elephants and relocate them. The conservation group was barred from the auction.

[Initech]

64. Couldn't we buy the tickets and not do anything with them?

If it's just money they want, that might be a loophole.

[AtheistCrusader]

68. 'Whups, I missed. Time to go home.'

[Doremus]

96. "Near-sentient"??

Sounds like you could use some elephant education. https://www.livescience.com/4272-elephant-awareness-mirrors-humans.html

As far as management to prevent human-elephant conflicts, how about we humans stop encroaching on their land for starters? We're at the top of the food chain, which in some people's minds justifies the atrocities we commit on other species, but we're quite capable of finding peaceful remedies. At least those of us who aren't assholes.

[Scarsdale]

16. The treasury department under Mnuchin

wants to keep under wraps the cost of golf trips and other expenses until after the election. We the People have a right to know where our tax money is being wasted. We have to DEMAND open records on this. How much is it costing to keep this vile family travelling and doing their business with protections from us? IF that family is so rich why don't they pay for private security, and let the taxpayers money go for something worthwhile? I remember when President Obama took Michelle to New York for a special occasion (birthday, anniversary) and the repubs. went wild. How much is this costing, they demanded to know? It seems that the President had already paid the expense for the meal and other incidentals. Now here comes the useless tRump family and their hangers on (Gargoyle Jr.'s old lady friend) and everything is kept secret. WHY? Are the expenses so mind boggling, the people would be up in arms if they knew the extent of this?

[sinkingfeeling]

18. People were afraid Botswana would reverse its animal protections after

its change in government. Botswana had a total ban on trophy hunting until mid 2019..They can make a hundred times that with tourism coming to view the ekephants. The best paying jobs are in the photo safari business.

Botswana has about 130,000 elephants. Poaching has increased in the last 3 years.

Added: please consider a donation to either Elephants Without Borders or the African Wildlife Foundation.

Botswana elephants at the Chobe.

[Nitram]

22. Help me here. Botswana is home to some 130,000 elephants, the world's largest population.

The park where the elephants live must have some limit on how many elephants it can sustainably support. Are the elephant hunts capped at the number of elephants that must be culled to maintain the sustainability of the elephant population? Is the herd under-populated in terms of the number needed to maintain a healthy herd and survive a drought or other crisis? Is the park over-populated with elephants? I would need to know the answers to these questions before I would state an opinion for or against the auction. I assume the proceeds will go towards maintaining and protecting the park and the animals in it. Is that the case?

[HarlanPepper]

28. Oh FFS

Humanity is the virus.

[sinkingfeeling]

31. African elephants are an endangered species. Poaching for

ivory has reduced the population in Tanzania by 90% in less than 40 years. Some African countries have no remaining elephants.

Do some google searches.

[Nitram]

34. The IUCN moved African elephants from endangered to vulnerable status in 2004, in part because the

animals are relatively numerous, with some 415,000 African elephants roaming the continent, and the population is increasing in some areas. The population of elephants is increasing, not decreasing, in Botswana. The land is only capable is sustaining a finite number of each species. Wildlife management is a scientific approach to making the population sustainable over the long term. Of course, the government could selectively euthanize the excess population, but this approach actually helps pay for the parks management and the animals' protection from poachers.

[Coventina]

37. We must kill the elephants to save them!!!!!

Nonsense.

Humans are the problem, not elephants.

[Nitram]

56. Facile, simplistic, and just plain non-scientific. Limiting an animal population to the size that a

particular environment can sustain is humane. Would you have us remove people from the land their ancestors occupied for centuries to make room for more elephants? Are you willing to buy 100,000 acres to which we can move members of an overpopulated elephant herd? The existing elephants will be healthier and happier if they are not overpopulated. Are you totally ignorant of biology, ecology, and wildlife management?

[Coventina]

58. On the contrary, most biologists now say that "wildlife management" is wrong-headed.

If all species are in the environment that evolved for that ecosystem, they should be left alone to find their own balance.

Elephants are not at the levels they once were, even in Botswana.

[Nitram]

72. I'm afraid that is not possible in a world which animals share with humans. To "leave animals alone

to find their own balance" would require an enormous amount of habitat which is no longer available. How do you propose to restore millions of acres of habitat that have been destroyed for human habitation?

[Coventina]

74. The problem is that we are not "sharing." Humans have no business pretending we're the

only species that matters.

It will be our undoing, which is fine with me, I'm just sorry we're taking so much of the biosphere with us.


Botswana sucks, we suck, all humans suck.

The planet will be so much better off when we're gone.

[Nitram]

75. It is not only a problem of human hubris. Unless you want to start culling humans, the

only humane solution is to establish protected habitat for animals and plants and scientifically manage populations to survivable limits within those habitats. Are you in favor of culling humans or moving tens of thousands of humans to concentration camps to make room for larger animal populations? Please explain your proposal beyond angry protestations that everything sucks. Humans are here to stay, and if we value nature we will protect large swaths of protected habitat to support sustainable populations of wildlife. Getting angry and saying everything sucks won't help animals. We're here, like it or not, and those of us who love nature want to protect a significant portion of it. But the horse is out of the barn, the toothpaste is out of the tube, or what ever metaphor you prefer. Extinctions have come and extinctions have gone, with or without human intervention, and nature will survive and evolve regardless of what we do. It is not actually possible to freeze the planet at one particular stage of evolution and protect everything the way it is right now. The continents continue to move, the climate continues to change, and nature always goes with the flow. That's what evolution has always been about. Ask the Ammonites how they feel about becoming the dominant species on Earth, and than disappearing entirely. Before humans had even evolved. What about the dinosaurs? Who is to blame for their extinction, which led to the rise of the mammals and eventually to human evolution. Nature is so much vaster and deeper than anything we can understand, and the time frames with which geology and evolution work are beyond our comprehension. Let's do what we can, but accept our inability to have more than very short term effects on ecosystems.

[Coventina]

76. I will never, ever, EVER find it acceptable to kill wildlife in favor of humans. EVER.

I don't advocate murder, but I do look forward to our hubris killing us.
I have grown to despise homo sapiens and I want us extinct.

The sooner the better.

The only thing that keeps me from offing myself right now is that I give all my disposable income to environmental causes. Once I feel I am more of a cost the planet than a benefit, I'm out.

[Nitram]

87. You haven't answered the main question. How can animal species survive unless either we cull human

beings or we scientifically manage healthy populations of animals on protected land?

[Nitram]

88. Interesting stance, Coventina. If a scientific calculation proved that your death would provide more

benefit to animals than your donations, what would you do?

[Coventina]

89. I'm quite happy to kill myself. I think I made that clear already. n/t

[Nitram]

90. Oh, my!

[sinkingfeeling]

38. WWF and AWF disagree.

https://www.worldwildlife.org/magazine/issues/winter-2018/articles/the-status-of-african-elephant

In 1930, as many as 10 million wild elephants roamed huge swaths of the African continent. But decades of poaching and conflict have since decimated African elephant populations. In 2016, experts estimated that Africa’s elephant population had dropped by 111,000 elephants in the span of a decade.

Although the Great Elephant Census of 2016 found that Africa’s elephant population dropped by at least 30 percent between 2007 and 2014, the southern country has supported a relatively stable population of more than 130,000 for the past 15 years, according to IUCN researchers’ estimates.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/five-things-know-about-botswanas-decision-lift-ban-hunting-elephants-180972281/


African elephants 'will have disappeared by time of Princess Charlotte's 25th birthday'

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/22/african-elephants-will-have-disappeared-by-time-of-princess-char/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/06/07/i-hate-elephants-behind-backlash-against-botswanas-giants/?arc404=true

Best book I've read on the subject is "The Last Elephants" by Don Pinnock.

[Nitram]

57. Why must you pretend that the Africa of 90 years ago is still relevant to a discussion of

managing an environment for the surviving population of elephants? Botswana has done an excellent job protecting its wild elephants, and you want to destroy that by prohibiting them from keeping the population act a sustainable level and, at the same time, funding the maintenance and protection of existing elephant herds? Are you in favor of culling the human population of Botswana to provide more room for elephants? What is your solution? There is not an infinite acreage of elephant habitat left.

[sinkingfeeling]

59. Oh, go away. I was just there in November. Elephants and

people can survive together. This is more political than 'elephants are over running people'.

I will continue to support sensible efforts to prevent the extinction of African wildlife, and especially, elephants. And will make more trips to Africa.

[Nitram]

73. I lived in Africa for two years. Don't lecture me about your little "visits." How do you propose

to convert land converted to human habitation and agriculture to wildlife habitat? Even if we did so, when an animal population grew to the point that is was no longer sustainable, what would you do? Let them die of disease and starvation to satisfy some chimerical notion on what is "natural."

[Evolve Dammit]

23. This sucks.hey will then have no reason for any tourism in Botswana. Very horrible choice. Eco-tour-

ism would be far more sustainable for the people of Botswana, but it is probably a few imperial grifters calling the shots.

[milestogo]

45. There is plenty of reason for tourism in Botswana.

The Okavango Delta has all kinds of wild animals, and if anything threatens it - its climate change, not hunting.

[SergeStorms]

24. How much would a permit...

to hunt Eric or Little Donnie Jr. cost? Just a ballpark estimate....I know I couldn't afford it.

[abqtommy]

26. This really disappoints me since I worked in Botswana for a short time in 1995 and

developed a very positive outlook on the country and the people. Not so much now. I like elephants more and this is a slap in the face.

[marieo1]

27. sad to kill elephants!!

This is despicable - I'm sure DJT's kids will be there killing one of these beautiful elephants.

[blueseas]

30. Evil bastards.

[Talitha]

32. Whatever Botswana's reason is for allowing this,

I can only hope the meat will be used to feed the hungry instead of being left to rot on the ground or left to the scavengers. God knows the trophy hunters couldn't care less what happens to it.

[Duppers]

35. Yes, seriously.

And there's always this....

Link to tweet

?s=20

[milestogo]

46. REMINDER: The people of Botswana have the right to self - determination.

They have the right to elect their own public officials and determine their own policies.

The days of having colonial western powers tell them what to do AS IF THEY WERE INFERIOR on an intellectual and or moral level should be long gone.

The lives of AFRICAN HUMAN BEINGS matter too.

[packman]

49. Christ, does your post miss the point and wander off

to a rant on AFRICAN HUMAN BEINGS

Even "African Human Beings" should understand they are the wardens, the guardians, the keepers of what they have been given by right of their heritage and culture. No one, no AFRICAN HUMAN BEING or AMERICAN HUMAN BEING or ANY HUMAN BEING should be selling the death certificates of such creatures entrusted to the care of those AFRICAN HUMAN BEINGS who seem to be selling out to Western gun-assholes for a few coins.

[milestogo]

50. Wow, just wow.

You need no input from people on another continent at all. You speak, and they will listen and obey.

You've identified your own belief system as being universal. I know this will come as a shock to you, but your belief system is not universal. And whatever your belief system is, you have no right to prescribe it to people in another country that you know nothing about.

[packman]

54. We are the world

and bear responsibility for it. When every elephant, every tiger, every panda, every whale is killed off - I have a right to prescribe to those countries, "Listen , you shitheads - stop the killing, stop the slaughter - Are you leaving anything for those to come"

You identified your belief system as being insular and extremely narrow sighted. I do have a universal right to speak out and demand certain things from other countries, you should also speak out. By the way, how can you say I know nothing about other people, other cultures? I know from my travels and experiences many, many cultures. I have seen many as being corrupt and not giving a damn about the resources they have been gifted with.

I don't want to have to point to a picture of an elephant, tiger, panda, whale, or a coral reef and tell my grandchildren, "This is what it was like, but no one spoke out because they wanted to leave it all up to those who should have protecting and saving them."

[Phoenix61]

55. Thank you. You don't just have a right , you

and I have a responsibility to speak out. Wrong is wrong.

[MountCleaners]

92. Western gun assholes...

Yeah, the sad thing is that the people buying licenses to kill these extremely intelligent and sensitive animals (who mourn their dead) are likely a bunch of white reactionary imperialist pigs who get off on killing something that is more intelligent and sensitive and that has more feelings than they do.

I understand the conflict between human survival and animal survival, but the hunting culture is often the same imperial white male ego culture that devastated these places in the first place.

[58Sunliner]

82. I'll take the elephants over crappy humans any day, no matter what country they are.

[milestogo]

83. So Africans are crappy humans?

Living in a "shithole" country?

Sounds like Donald Trump.

[58Sunliner]

86. Go blow a smoke screen elsewhere. Crappy people think killing majestic animals is ok.

[milestogo]

91. And xenophobes see Africans as crappy people.

[58Sunliner]

95. I see people who authorize it, people who buy the permits and people who do the killing as crappy.

I'm pretty sure they aren't all African. And if somehow they were, they would be crappy, because people who can't find a better solution than slaughtering these beings are crappy. Go blow smoke somewhere else. FYI there are Africans who do conservation work. This does not reflect the work or beliefs of all Africans. But somehow you think it does.

[Jack-o-Lantern]

48. As usual it's money and greed.

So, those who make money selling these permits to trophy hunters make money, lots of money.

sa-dist

noun

A person who derives pleasure, especially sexual gratification, from inflicting pain on others.

That is the perfect definition of these trophy hunters. They have the means to indulge in this “thrill killing”. Sadist, the lot of them. If they thought they could get away with inflicting pain and death on humans they would go at it with relish.
What the hell does one do with an elephant head? Hang it on the wall in their living room?? Do they get sexually aroused when they look at it?
I grind my teeth with hatred at this. Remember the photo of trump Jr cutting the tail off of his fresh killed elephant and proudly holding the tail up for photos grinning like the jackass he is?

[Kurt V.]

51. there are like a handful of fission/ fusion society's across all of the animal kingdom.

[Initech]

61. I say we raise the money and buy it and then don't do anything with it.

And I would gladly contribute to that cause. Fuck trophy hunters.

[Coventina]

63. Sadly, they are not allowing conservationists to purchase the permits.

[Marcuse]

70. Namibian elephants counter attack the murderers of their friend.

[link:https://allthatsinteresting.com/namibia-elephants-charge-hunters|

[Brainfodder]

71. Can I sell them for only $800?

Mine won't be valid or anything.

I do promise a deluxe paper and written in crayon color of your choice!

Trophy hunting without skill/effort is just a psycho level I hope never to 100% fully understand, same for all this pedo nonsense we hear of by a bunch of sick twisted idiots that aren't properly dealt with, obviously!

[mr_lebowski]

80. I'm gonna just say ... more than anyone in this scenario I'm disgusted most by the people who'd

actually pay a shitload of money ... for the 'privilege' of shooting an elephant in it's face.

What kind of fucked up asshole does a person have to be?

And if there's a problem with there being too many elephants, can't they just do something to reduce the existing herd's fecundity for a bit? I mean, pretty sure the 'tech' exists to do so.

[MountCleaners]

94. I wonder if that money could have been raised...

to sterilize twice that many elephants. I'd pony up. With social media marketing, they probably could have met that goal. Elephants are one of the most intelligent, sensitive creatures on the planet, and they mourn their dead. Surely a long-term sterilization program would be more humane? But I'm not sure how easily accomplished that is....

[58Sunliner]

81. Horrible. I wonder if there is any way to find out who bought them.

Only a piece of garbage would do that.