Americans should prepare for coronavirus spread in U.S., CDC says

[Dennis Donovan]

Source: NYT

Feb. 25, 2020, 12:57 PM EST

By Erika Edwards

Top U.S. public health officials said Tuesday that Americans should prepare for the spread of the coronavirus in communities across the country.

“It’s not so much a question of if this will happen any more, but rather more a question of exactly when this will happen and how many people in this country will have severe illness,” Dr. Nancy Messonnier, the head of Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, said during a media briefing Tuesday.

Measures to contain the virus in the U.S. so far have involved restricting travel to and from China — the center of the outbreak — and isolating cases identified so far in this country.

But Messonnier said that evidence that the virus is spreading in other countries, such as Iran and Italy, has raised CDC’s “level of concern and expectation that we’ll see spread” in the U.S.

Read more: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/americans-should-prepare-coronavirus-spread-u-s-cdc-says-n1142556

---

This got my attention...

[dewsgirl]

1. Yikes 😳

Even though I have followed so closely, I figured this would be inevitable, it's scary to hear it coming from the CDC.

[Dennis Donovan]

2. Given the Trump admin's efforts to quell info for fear of panicking the markets...

...I'm surprised the CDC went this far with a warning.

[dewsgirl]

3. I'm surprised they did as well. The CDC put out a tweet

earlier, the Dr. from your article, telling how she talked to her children about a significant disruption to their lives.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=13015944

[Dennis Donovan]

4. You mean being a borderline agoraphobic introvert who hates to leave his house might save me?

I'll be damned! I just *knew* that would pay off eventually.

[dewsgirl]

6. IKR same here. I do live with a child though, the germs

she brings home are ridiculous, I've been sick 3 times in the 4 months, since I moved here.

[alittlelark]

8. LOL !! I'm in the same 'fortunate' situation !!

[Alliepoo]

21. I babysit my grands-

Every day. Junior high, elementary, kindergarten and twins in preschool. Those kid cooties are something else, aren’t they? And the kiddos share them so freely!! Lol! Mr Allie and I are always getting sick!

[Warpy]

36. The overall fatality rate is 3.1%, as of two days ago

The highest fatality rate is for people over 80, ballpark 15%. Those are decent odds, IMO, so keep babysitting the grands, you'd miss them horribly if you didn't.

The best ideas are good handwashing and wiping surfaces down with antiseptic wipes and teaching them to cough into their elbow, things you should be doing now when they're sick. In addition, start training yourself touch your face with the back of your wrist, not your fingertips. Spread of this thing seems to be from contaminated surfaces and people then touching their eyes, noses or mouth with their fingers after touching the surfaces.

Hand sanitizer does diddly squat, so save your money. Soap and water is the way to go, counting to 20 as you wash.

[lunasun]

56. Why not hand sanitizer ? What about Lysol products. What products are best for wipe downs

I thought hand sanitizer was good...I need to learn more I guess thanks if u can reply

[Warpy]

59. Just about anything labeled disinfectant will do the job

whether it's weak bleach, Lysol, Dettol, or 100% ethanol.

Hand sanitizer does kill some bugs but mostly it just moves them around on your hands.

[lunasun]

60. Thanks !

[littlemissmartypants]

61. As a health care provider what stuck in my mind

from infection control training was "soap & friction" are the enemies of germs. I also keep spray bottles of 90% alcohol in my kitchen, bathroom and bedroom and purse for object and surface disinfection.

I remove my shoes, lab coat and scrubs at the back door which is where the laundry room is, next to the bathroom where I wash up before I enter the main house. It may seem extreme but I am acting on personal experience.

I acquired a very serious respiratory infection as a result of having an infected patient sneeze in my face during an examination and the sickness I experienced changed my relationship with germs forever, so I am a bit more cautious now.

[lunasun]

62. Thanks +the caution you take is not extreme . I live where there is a long flu season during cold

months but always relied on handsanritizer and Lysol . Your friction explanation and Warpy’s reply makes sense now to always include soap hand washing not just reach for the sanitizer
At first the info was it is being transmitted primarily by air droplets now it’s coming out how long it can remain on surfaces compared to common cold etc. It’s still being explored so all precautions should be taken if it hits here in US hard

[moniss]

25. I'm right

there with you. Well.......not actually right there with you.....but in spirit. You know. As long as your spirit doesn't get too close to my spirit. The problem for us remains of whether to answer the door for the grocery delivery and pizza delivery. I've asked the grocery folks at the store I've used for years if I could work a trade with them where maybe I pay just a bit more to be able to just leave my garbage in the outside entryway and they take it to the curb for me when they bring my groceries. A sort of exchange. That's how I thought the request should be taken. I'll be getting used to ordering from my new supermarket as soon as my 72 hour observation period is over. Hopefully.

[forkol]

33. The problem is eventually...

Delivery systems will be affected if there's enough people sick (or afraid of) getting sick. So no Amazon, grocery or medication deliveries. Take this even further (and I hope this does not get this bad) but essential supply chains, transportation, and utility systems could end up being affected. If you can't or don't want to go to work, how would you get money? Who's there to insure the money that you do have is properly accounted for? I don't think it will get to that point, but enough cases happen and fear will drive the narrative.

[moniss]

40. Yes indeed

and an aspect of this that is not being discussed by media etc. is that the effects already being felt are not just limited to people/goods originating from China but it is also screwing with the supply chain for inbound commerce. Companies bringing in goods are reporting very long delays in trying to unload freight for example because of reluctance to make contact and people need to physically transfer paperwork etc. and much of it is not in electronic form. Workers on ships and trucks aren't real keen on being told to make contact with areas that are under quarantine etc. You are completely right that there are many aspects to this that can cause massive disruption. The worst thing that can be done was done already in the US and elsewhere. Governments started giving assurances of containment and safety before they actually knew much at all about this virus and how it survives and is transmitted to people and transferred in the environment. So now when things start to dramatically expand it makes them look like they're not truthful or competent and the public begins to fall prey to all sorts of fear driven garbage like the phony TV preacher selling his "Silver" solution that he claims kills any virus.

[mr_lebowski]

53. I'm not agoraphobic or especially introverted, and I still don't like leaving the house much

Should I start hearing of cases around here I'll definitely be a lot more careful at the grocery store, and avoid eating out.

Pretty much as long as nobody at work gets it, figure I should be golden.

[ace3csusm]

9. This is a post i saw on Stat Medical site

Some people real are loss, scroll down to comment from Donnie this is what we are up against ....Scary times are here...

[link:https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/25/cdc-expects-community-spread-of-coronavirus-as-top-official-warns-disruptions-could-be-severe/|

cant post picture her is reply from someone send a prayer Donnie "Pray to the real Messiah, DONALD TRUMP. JESUS IS A MEXICAN NAME! MAGA 4 LIFE"

I could expect this in political site but medical sites wow...PS does any one know how to post pictures?

[Hestia]

26. D/L to your system - you should be able to upload from there

If someone has an easier way, speak up!

[mr_lebowski]

54. Nope ... there's no file hosting here at DU ...

However if the pic is on the internet, should be able to just paste the URL to the photo directly into DU. The URL needs to end with .jpg, .gif, .tiff or other popular photo format (or at least have those in it, you can manually remove anything after the extension from the URL).

[mmbrevo]

19. Brave person..

I wonder if trump will fire her.

[not fooled]

5. The fly in the ointment

of red don and the GOPee's worldview, that they can ignore nature and science and just impose their will on everything and everyone.

A disease pandemic is something they can't bluster and lie their way out of.

[Pachamama]

7. We are no better (and likely much worse) than Italy in preparation for what the Coronavirus brings

We do not have proper measures in place and Americans are not alternating how they go about their lives. Planes from Asia and Europe fly in daily. Those people walk around, possibly infected and have no symptoms for a virus that has been shown to have an incubation period of 14 days and possibly up to 28 days. Secondary infections are appearing in Italy and S Korea. And those people could for weeks have contact with 100’s of people and those people also. Yesterday people across the US went to sporting events, church, synagogues, mosques, concerts and conference meetings. They sat on public transportation in close proximity to each other. On yoga mats near someone they don’t know or who they were in contact with. Classrooms filled with kids, all in close proximity. Dorm rooms on college campuses.

The mom at the grocery store with her cute toddler sitting in the cart who was drooling and giving everyone high-fives (Parents - try using Amazon shopping or getting a friend or neighbor to pick up groceries so you aren’t exposing your child and everyone).

Yesterday thousands gathered at the Staple Center to memorialize Kobe Bryant and his daughter and friends who died. Want to bet there were some people from Italy who traveled there to remember Kobe (who knew him and his father from their time in Italy)? Jimmy Kimmel who spoke encouraged people to reach out to neighbors next to them, even if they don’t know each other - many shaking hands and even hugging strangers.

Can the COVID-19 Coronavirus spread like wildfire and become pandemic in the US?

You can expect it.....its coming and I am very concerned because I see the perfect storm for it to take hold here in the US.

Like Italy, we don’t have enough “testing kits” and no where near the capability to implement mass testing in cases when people go to their physicians, clinics or hospitals when they have symptoms.

We don’t have enough hospital beds and unlike China, do not have the ability to set up emergency hospital beds that would have the proper ICU and necessary care and containment to protect other patients and medical staff from it infecting them.

Medications used for treatment of many of the symptoms and other diseases and conditions in the US (many of which are exasperated by COVID-19) and send people into serious or critical condition are all made in China and are currently already in low supply. A sudden demand to the system will not be able to be met.

I see a disaster headed for us and Indefinitely have little faith in the Trump administration to handle it. They aren’t even doing what needs to be done now and organizing with State Givernors and Public Health Officials to be getting warnings out, preparing and letting people know what they need to do and help them be ready.

I can only suggest to my fellow DUers the following: Take the best care of your immune health that you currently can.was your hands frequently. Carry anti bacterial anti viral wipes and wipe down surfaces like door knobs and shopping carts before touching. Avoid touching stair railings without gloves or escalator rails. Avoid crowded public places and events and venues if you can. Re-schedule travel to events or places, particularly international if you can. Stock up on canned goods and food items that could carry you through at least a month. Have meds on hand and medical supplies, even over the counter that you normally take for granted as being readily available. Have N-95 rated face masks on hand and anti bacterial/anti-viral wipes and cleaning supplies. Figure out a plan for your family members and friends of how to care for each other and also being prepared to be in your home if there is a mass outbreak.

[forkol]

38. I flew into MIA airport yesterday

from the Caribbean. I was SHOCKED to see very little or no notice from CPB or Immigration about Coronavirus. I noticed they have drastically reduced their baggage searches, and I did not notice the little thermal scanners that I remember seeing during SARS outbreak. I think I only saw one sign (printed) mentioning it. They seem to be trying to use personnel to detect (as you were walking by) if you were very sick or not. I did not see very many of them using any kind of personal protection (gloves or mask). The only question about CV was whether I had visited China in the past 14 days, and that was done by the airline.

I remember coming back when SARS was active. There was much more warnings, notices everywhere and they had scanners and I remember them asking you multiple times if you were sick or where you had visited. They had the temperature scanners working then.

Maybe MIA is not under threat, I don't know if they are allowing Asian country flights, but again, I flew into MIA when SARS happened, and there was much more SARS preparation that you would think.

Because I also work at a company that provides systems for Airport security, my company has been affected by that, Trump has diverted money from upgrades and critical systems at DHS to fund his border wall. There's lots of chaos in DHS, not only at the top levels but the lower ones. We have to interact with what seems to be a new director every day there.

[Pachamama]

42. This is just more verification that the current situation is not being handled properly

I noticed that on a recent return from Germany returning into SFO - none of the. He is that I recall during the SARS outbreak or the MERs.

I am also sadly not surprised to hear about funds diverted from DHS to the “Wall” instead of being spent on important security upgrades at airports to also defend from terrorist attacks etc.

Again, this is why I posted above what I did - we need to assume that the Trump administration is not prepared and we have to make personal preparations and choices and also hope our local county and state are doing something to prepare for a pandemic outbreak.

[Maxheader]

10. Considering the gops attitude towards the cdc..

whos budget got cut... Makes me wonder how hard they are really working to address this issue...

[matt819]

11. Okay

What would you propose that we do?

We no longer have a functioning government entity responsible for a coordinated response. We have the CDC, which is good, as far as it goes. But what is the CDC going to do when there are outbreaks on the west coast, in other large metropolitan areas, and then in smaller communities? Have media briefings with non-specific comments and recommendations? Are we going to have situations like the one with the guy in the news these past few days who thought me might have the coronavirus but only had the flu, and his insurance company did the Uber equivalent of surge pricing. Do smaller hospitals have the capacity to respond? Larger ones? Are there going to be regional quarantines? State quarantines? Who enforces these? How? Call out the national guard? Martial law? Who picks up the losses for small businesses that don't have the capacity to absorb the kinds of losses that multinationals do. (That's a rhetorical question - as always, the little guy is fucked.)

What happens when the idiot in chief tells everyone to calm down, it'll be gone in April, while the CDC releases numbers indicating growth?

Also, just how many people are on top of this in the US, and where are they? Not on policy or response, but on the epidemiology. CDC of course. Maybe the NIH? Anywhere else? Any coordination? After all, the Russian asset in the WH dismantled the pandemic response infrastructure.

As the OP observed - This got my attention. Mine, too. I'm not panicking, but it is really horrifying when you see the equivalent of a banana republic administration ill equipped to deal with this.

[Hestia]

30. In 2018, Drumpf fired the entire pandemic response chain of command

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/31/coronavirus-china-trump-united-states-public-health-emergency-response/

For the United States, the answers are especially worrying because the government has intentionally rendered itself incapable. In 2018, the Drumpf administration fired the government’s entire pandemic response chain of command, including the White House management infrastructure. In numerous phone calls and emails with key agencies across the U.S. government, the only consistent response I encountered was distressed confusion. If the United States still has a clear chain of command for pandemic response, the White House urgently needs to clarify what it is, the White House urgently needs to clarify what it is—not just for the public but for the government itself, which largely finds itself in the dark.

https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2020/01/coronavirus-white-house-public-health-cdc-hospitals/

And here in the United States, epidemic preparedness hasn’t been a priority, to put it mildly. Let’s start with the leadership in the White House—or lack thereof. At the beginning of the Drumpf administration, public health legend Rear Admiral Tim Ziemer led a global health security team at the White House’s National Security Council. This, almost everyone agreed, was a very good thing: Ziemer had years of experience—under President George W. Bush, he had led a successful effort to fight malaria overseas. His team, a group of world-class infectious disease and public health experts—was working on implementing a national biodefense strategy to coordinate agencies in order to make the United States more resilient to the threat of biowarfare and epidemics.

But in 2018, when John Bolton assumed the role of national security advisor, Ziemer left, and Bolton disbanded his team, amid public outcry. No one has since filled the position. And Ziemer wasn’t the only public health advocate to jump ship: White House homeland security advisor Tom Bossert, a staunch advocate of infectious disease preparedness and the biodefense strategy, left soon after Bolton took over.

(Can't believe people were worshiping at the altar of John Bolton - he is not the US's friend)

[matt819]

44. I know

When I saw that article in Foreign Policy, my first thought was, if I were a Russian agent, what would I do to destabilize the United States. I'm pretty sure that every action trump has taken was straight from Putin's "destabilize the US" playbook. And I never even thought f the pandemic response infrastructure. Well played, Vladimir.

[yaesu]

12. from The Atlantic

Forecast that 70% of the worlds population will get Covid but those in good heath should be fine, up to 14% have zero symptoms which is why it will be almost impossible to contain.


https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

[LiberalFighter]

13. Trump should be quarantined with the virus.

[NurseJackie]

14. "coronavirus TO spread" TO!! Is it so hard for them to avoid ambiguous headlines?

"coronavirus TO spread" TO!! Is it so hard for them to avoid ambiguous headlines? (It's not like there wasn't room.)

I'm left wondering if this coronavirus spread will be made by Smuckers or Welch's.

[bucolic_frolic]

15. Mother Nature teaches the GOP about science

[mahatmakanejeeves]

16. Duck And Cover

Duck And Cover (1951) Bert The Turtle
2,977,776 views•Jul 11, 2009

Nuclear Vault
94.7K subscribers

Duck and Cover staring Bert the Turtle is a 1951 Civil Defense Film

Written by Raymond J. Mauer and directed by Anthony Rizzo of Archer Productions and made with the help of schoolchildren from New York City and Astoria, New York, it was shown in schools as the cornerstone of the government's "duck and cover" public awareness campaign.

According to the United States Library of Congress (which declared the film "historically significant" and inducted it for preservation into the National Film Registry in 2004), it "was seen by millions of schoolchildren in the 1950s."

Duck and Cover lyrics:
There was a turtle by the name of Bert
and Bert the turtle was very alert;
when danger threatened him he never got hurt
he knew just what to do...
He'd duck!
And cover!
Duck!
And cover! (male) He did what we all must learn to do
(male) You (female) And you (male) And you (deeper male) And you!'
Duck, and cover!'

Duck and Cover (film) From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_and_Cover_(film)

The Unexpected Return of 'Duck and Cover' - The Atlantic
https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/01/the-unexpected-return-of-duck-and-cover/68776/

Production History of Duck and Cover
http://www.conelrad.com/duckandcover/cover.php?turtle=01

Duck and Cover is a civil defense social guidance film that is often popularly mischaracterized as propaganda.

Film production started in 1951 and it gained its first public screening in January 1952 during the era after the Soviet Union began nuclear testing in 1949 and the Korean War (1950–53) was in full swing.

Funded by the US Federal Civil Defense Administration, it was written by Raymond J. Mauer, directed by Anthony Rizzo of Archer Productions, narrated by actor Robert Middleton and made with the help of schoolchildren from New York City and Astoria, New York.

It was shown in schools as the cornerstone of the government's "duck and cover" public awareness campaign, being aired to generations of United States school children from the early 1950s until 1991, which marked the end of the Cold War.

The US government contracted with Archer to produce Duck and Cover.

Oddly, the Internet Movie Cars Database did not identify the Oldsmobiles all in a row in the parking lot.

Duck and Cover, the Citizen Kane of civil defense films

[Nitram]

24. OK, I get the snark. But the potential spread of coronavirus is not a joke, and taking simple

precautions asa recommend by the CDC makes a lot more sense than "duck and cover" did in the face of a nuclear attack.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

27. Sure, the Republican administration could do the right thing, but what are the odds of that?

Last edited Tue Feb 25, 2020, 04:58 PM - Edit history (2)

Morning Mix

Rush Limbaugh on coronavirus: ‘The common cold’ that’s being ‘weaponized’ against Trump

By Allyson Chiu
Feb. 25, 2020 at 5:43 a.m. EST

Just hours after World Health Organization officials said they are preparing for a “potential pandemic” as coronavirus cases increase worldwide, conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh told his listeners Monday that he would try to put the concerning news about the novel virus “in perspective” for them.

“It looks like the coronavirus is being weaponized as yet another element to bring down Donald Trump,” Limbaugh said during his Monday show. “Now, I want to tell you the truth about the coronavirus. … Yeah, I’m dead right on this. The coronavirus is the common cold, folks.”

{snip}

Allyson Chiu
Allyson Chiu is a reporter with The Washington Post's Morning Mix team. She has previously contributed to the South China Morning Post and the Pacific Daily News. Follow https://twitter.com/_allysonchiu

Trump Lackey Claims US Has “Contained” Coronavirus, which leads to:

WHITE HOUSE

Kudlow breaks with CDC on coronavirus: ‘We have contained this’

The White House economic adviser suggested that the virus’ impact is “not going to last forever.”

By ELI OKUN

02/25/2020 02:39 PM EST

[SayItLoud]

17. But, but , but....tRUMP said not to worry and just now

Larry Kudlow said on CNBC that "we have it contained".


OMG!!

[BamaRefugee]

18. How the fuck do we "prepare"? Call Legal Zoom and make a will? I'm gonna invest my entire 401K into

plastic sheeting and duct tape companies, a la 2003, pretty sure the Orange Anal Wart will tell us to seal up our houses the same way to stop the virus.
I'll make a killing in the market. And Legal Zoom can disburse the money to my heirs since I'm probably gonna die.

[Nitram]

23. Pay attention to the news, particularly outbreaks in your own community, and take precautions.

Don't travel to crowded venues in areas the have already experienced coronavirus cases. If you or anybody you know shows signs of flu symptom, or even common cold symptoms, suggest they wear a mask in public or stay at home. It's not rocket science, just a heads up the the virus could still spread here. Stay alert. Stay informed. No need to get hysterical.

[BamaRefugee]

43. I live and work in an area that has 7 out of 10 of the highest Asian poulation towns in California.

We're talking 70% Asian, and far majority Chinese.
People here come and go to China all the time.
Yesterday at Good Fortune market in Arcadia, where I shop a lot, EVERY SINGLE PERSON, workers and customers, had masks on.

I have to go to their businesses, go to their homes, touch their gates, touch their doorbells, touch their doorknobs, speak to them face to face, shake their hands...some of which I can stop doing but my work requires me to be right in front of them and questioning them on things ( I work in the civil justice field).
So unless I stop working and go broke, I don't really know what I can do.

And I wasn't being hysterical, it was gallows humor...laughing at what's probably inevitable.

[YOHABLO]

46. There's good news that trials for a vaccine will begin in 6 weeks.

Meanwhile you might want to wash your hands frequently, avoid those who are coughing, and or sneezing in public. Wearing a mask doesn't really prevent you from being infected. It's those who are already infected that should be wearing the masks.

[Delphinus]

29. Here's a link:

How to Prepare your Household

[link:https://www.cdc.gov/nonpharmaceutical-interventions/pdf/gr-pan-flu-ind-house.pdf]

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

63. Buy a huge supply of SPAM and beer.

We can get through this.

[Loubee]

20. Will Trump now fire these public health officials?

[live love laugh]

47. Why would he? Every agency is pretty much corrupted

with right wing Trumpeteers. I’m sure the CDC has their fill.

[Nitram]

22. Please remember that "preparing" doesn't mean panicking.

[Mrs. Overall]

32. I keep seeing posts telling DUers not to "panic" or "get hysterical"--

In your view, what are examples of panic and hysteria that DUers might indulge in?

I'm just curious because I think one person's preparation might look like hysteria to someone else.

[Kaleva]

41. An increase in suicides, a break down in law and order, running for the hills

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

45. People here are citing ludicrously high death rates.

That strikes me as panicking. They also ignore the fact that almost all, maybe everyone who dies is elderly or has some other underlying health issue. Having compromised lungs is apparently a problem. Smoking rates in China are very high.

If the majority of people who get this particular virus have no or mild symptoms, then it simply isn't that dangerous. But in this very thread people are talking about avoiding crowds, stocking up on alcohol wipes, although plain soap and water is probably better.

I'm going to hazard a guess that in China, where the majority of deaths have occurred, people are not as scrupulous about hand-washing as they should be.

I like to point out that when the Spanish flu did its thing a hundred years ago, many, many people did not have running water in their homes, and regular hand-washing would not have been a thing.

Meanwhile, how many people have gotten influenza so far this year? How many have died? If every single influenza death were reported, this country would come to a standstill every winter.

[Phoenix61]

52. I'm equally puzzled about why this seems to be

such a big deal yet the flu never has been. One flu season I was in a little town in Alabama and the hospital had beds in the halls because all the rooms were full but school was still is session, stores were all open, and no one was wearing a mask.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

55. I suppose it's simply that flu is ordinary and common

and comes around every year. Yes, people die, but mainly old people or those with underlying health issues. Ever since 1918, young, healthy people have not dropped dead from the flu.

But the corona virus, a "novel" virus meaning this specific iteration is brand new even though it is simply one of many, many corona viruses which include the common cold, meaning everyone has already been exposed to various corona viruses and has at least a partial immunity. Still, some people are getting very sick and some are dying. But more to the point, it's being reported relentlessly, every single day. If some other things were reported that way, say deaths from guns in this country, we'd probably have serious and genuine gun control inside of six months. If every single suicide, if every single murder, if every single "accidental" gunshot were reported each and every day, well just think about it.

But back to the topic at hand. We are getting daily updates, to whatever extent we can trust those updates.

Oh, and a few years back I worked at my local hospital, and during flu season there were also beds in the halls, and schools were likewise still in session and so on. There really is a degree of panic and overreaction that is sheer ignorance.

Here's a fascinating chart. Notice that after the Spanish flu went away, deaths from influenza drop off precipitously, and after 1950 simply aren't spiking. Isn't that interesting?

You are going to have to click on the link. No matter what I try I can't seem to just post the chart itself.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/mzemlLwog8r7_GDeJmDMy-JWndqpD86MEdz9-Mc50WLiqYEaN4l6pQLkmiEFfskmXidVweMfRB8Wu_nlgf00oKDkTyvTRy_iZFFE1gYOMLL9fA2t1fs8966br07UOA

[Phoenix61]

57. The chart is interesting. I did a quick check

on when penicillin was readily available and that was 1942 so the downward trend had already started. Looks more like natural herd immunity.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

58. Penicillin will only matter with illnesses that are caused by bacteria. Not viruses.

I am not certain if the pneumonia that's such a common side-effect of influenza, especially in older people, is in that case bacterial or viral. I honestly don't know.

Herd immunity is certainly a factor. But so are public health measures like hand washing. In 1918, and for several decades thereafter, running water was not so common in houses or apartments, even in first world countries. That alone meant a lot of people weren't washing their hands regularly. And I suppose the desperately poor might not have afforded soap, even if they had running water. I've been fairly poor at times in my life, where we did without certain things (I recall shampoo for my hair being in short supply at one point) and that a free meal actually made a difference in my budget. So I do understand poverty, and I'm grateful that my times of relative poverty never lasted very long.

From what we seem to know about the Chinese meat markets, I think it's fair to say that not only are they largely unregulated, but are probably hideously unsanitary. I'm also going to go out on a limb here and suggest that maybe regular hand-washing isn't what it ought to be in that country. As for the "hospitals" that got set up very quickly, from what I understand they were simply places to warehouse sick people, and it's not obvious to the casual observer that much real medical care was taking place. Hence the relatively high death rate in China. Plus smoking. China has a very high smoking rate and surprise, surprise, what seems to kill with this corona virus is Acute Respiratory Failure Syndrome. And smokers (and those who live with them) are going to be far more susceptible.

[Nitram]

64. You'll find some examples in this thread.

[Timmygoat]

28. But!!!!

Trump says he has it under control, and we are OK. Surely he cannot be misleading us!

[Mr.Bill]

35. Yeah, he also said

the stock market is looking good.

[MontanaMama]

31. I notice that travel insurance is

not covering trip cancellations due to coronavirus. I just got an email about this regarding two upcoming trips for my husband.

[Renew Deal]

34. Duct tape your windows!

[Throck]

37. I'm going to file my absentee ballot now and find a cave.

[progressoid]

39. Kudlow said they have it contained, "I won't say airtight but pretty close to airtight."

[YOHABLO]

48. This takes me back to 1982 and the AIDs/HIV outbreak.

I remember how the urgency in addressing the AIDs outbreak was ignored by our then President, HRH Ronald Reagan. There was no real outcry from his administration, it was a joke, labeled a ''gay disease'', the "gay plague". So many young people died as a result of doing nothing. But there was no real threat to the economy nor the stock market. No one was worried about commerce and trade coming to a sudden stop. Back then, ground zero for the AIDs outbreak was the Castro community in San Francisco, not Wuhan, China, a vast manufacturing center of high technological consumer goods important for the U.S. economy. Yesterday and today the stock market has been plummeting due to skepticism surrounding the virus.

The virus is spreading, although The National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) say they are now researching the virus and most likely will develop a vaccine at some future date,how long it will take is not clear, it could be as much as two years.

It's no rude awakening that profits and dividends are way more important than lives in this country, nothing seems to gain our attention or immediate action more than the loss of either one.

From the time AIDs was diagnosed and coined the human immunodeficiency virus in 1981, over 700,000 deaths have been reported and 1.1 million are living with HIV. Medications are giving people back their lives, but it's taken 38 years.

[olddad65]

49. I have stopped playing in Texas Holdem poker tournaments

And playing is something I love doing. I play in a casino in Northern California. I started thinking about how the chips change hands and how many people touch the cards. How many dealers touch all the cards and how often the dealers rotate to various tables in the card room. I decided to stop playing for a while.

[AntiFascist]

50. A CDC expert on Rachel Maddow just mentioned...

the mortality rate at some cities in China was as high as 6%.

[katmondoo]

51. I listened to Rachel this evening and she really scared me. I was so upset I had to turn her off.

This I never do with Rachel, I wait hours to watch her program but tonight she talked about what this new virus could do to our economy and our every day life is beyond my imagination. All thoughts of the future and what we want to do will disappear in wake of this virus coming to America. I thought with Trump we would get nuked now he will kill us because he has destroyed the very program that could put measures in place to at least control this epidemic. I am truly alarmed. Trump got rid of the program because it was Obama who put it in place.