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muriel_volestrangler

(101,271 posts)
Mon Apr 13, 2020, 02:49 PM Apr 2020

Wildfires 'edge closer to Chernobyl nuclear plant'

Source: BBC

Forest fires that have been burning for several days in northern Ukraine are now no more than a few kilometres from the abandoned Chernobyl nuclear plant, reports say.

Tour operator Yaroslav Emelianenko said one had reached the abandoned town of Pripyat, which used to serve the plant.

It was now just 2km (1.24 miles) from where the most dangerous waste from the plant was stored.
...
More than 300 firefighters with dozens of pieces of special hardware are reportedly working at the site, while six helicopters and planes are attempting to extinguish the fire from above.

Read more: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52274242



And ... "Police said the fire had been burning since the weekend of 4 April, after a man set fire to dry grass near the exclusion zone."
45 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Wildfires 'edge closer to Chernobyl nuclear plant' (Original Post) muriel_volestrangler Apr 2020 OP
goddess protect their cilla4progress Apr 2020 #1
A radioactive forest fire, a worldwide plague, a volcanic eruption, and locusts. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2020 #2
Maybe Putin will "order" DENVERPOPS Apr 2020 #5
Oh my ... Delphinus Apr 2020 #6
Chernobyl is not in Russia Polybius Apr 2020 #11
We had one of our worst fire years under Owen mountain grammy Apr 2020 #13
Owens would have done anything DENVERPOPS Apr 2020 #19
Agree! mountain grammy Apr 2020 #24
Most interesting is that Colorado DENVERPOPS Apr 2020 #25
Well Lindsey is still in the closet where republicans want him mountain grammy Apr 2020 #27
A true blue niece? In Colorado Springs???? DENVERPOPS Apr 2020 #29
Oh she knows, she knows. mountain grammy Apr 2020 #32
And the loss of the forest's too DENVERPOPS Apr 2020 #28
I know..it would be devastating.. mountain grammy Apr 2020 #33
plus 2 F-5 tornadoes. n/t dixiegrrrrl Apr 2020 #15
Great sumation....n/t SayitAintSo Apr 2020 #38
Oh f-ing great awesomerwb1 Apr 2020 #3
What are the consequences? IronLionZion Apr 2020 #4
It only took six months DENVERPOPS Apr 2020 #7
Chernobyl isn't in Russia, it's in Ukraine. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2020 #16
I feel you missed my point...... DENVERPOPS Apr 2020 #17
I see. But does Russia really want a country with radioactive forest fires? The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2020 #18
If Putin in down wind DENVERPOPS Apr 2020 #20
Absolutely... SayitAintSo Apr 2020 #39
Just checked on Ukraine/Russia VO DENVERPOPS Apr 2020 #21
It would spread the radiation whopis01 Apr 2020 #8
All this feels apocalyptic IronLionZion Apr 2020 #9
Sorta reminds me of a fire DENVERPOPS Apr 2020 #22
W's Sec of Interior IronLionZion Apr 2020 #31
Thx ILZ DENVERPOPS Apr 2020 #34
I read a book about Rocky Flats, MuseRider Apr 2020 #37
That was why DENVERPOPS Apr 2020 #40
Yes. NickB79 Apr 2020 #14
Paranoia aside, the effects are not likely to be overly dramatic. The primary volatile nuclides... NNadir Apr 2020 #23
Super helpful for putting this into perspective Mersky Apr 2020 #30
Thanks. I actually spent a lot of time on that one, but I really didn't expect anyone to read it. NNadir Apr 2020 #35
Nadir DENVERPOPS Apr 2020 #41
I think I made it clear that 200 million people have died from air pollution since 1986. NNadir Apr 2020 #42
Thank you for the time it took for you to answer my posting DENVERPOPS Apr 2020 #43
You're welcome. I have become, in recent years, a rather strong critic of solar and wind... NNadir Apr 2020 #44
The solution is simple. Putin should invade Ukraine incorporate it into Russia. JustABozoOnThisBus Apr 2020 #10
Sounds like someone hasn't been raking their forests. flibbitygiblets Apr 2020 #12
Good one. Newest Reality Apr 2020 #26
Chernobyl fire under control, Ukraine officials say muriel_volestrangler Apr 2020 #36
Wildfires blanket Kyiv in thick smog muriel_volestrangler Apr 2020 #45

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,615 posts)
2. A radioactive forest fire, a worldwide plague, a volcanic eruption, and locusts.
Mon Apr 13, 2020, 02:52 PM
Apr 2020

And we've got Trump, the toxic icing on the shit-filled cake.

Woo fucking hoo.

DENVERPOPS

(8,792 posts)
5. Maybe Putin will "order"
Mon Apr 13, 2020, 03:25 PM
Apr 2020

his Lardass puppet to send over all of OUR wildfire fighting crews and aircraft to help him, free of charge, of course.

Ridiculous you say? Here in Colorado years ago under Governor Owens (R) and his Republican controlled legislature wanted so so bad to be loved and taken to Washington by Bush he did the unthinkable.
Our worst Wildfire season ever, and Bush asked him for Colorado's National Guards "Huey" helicopters to be sent to Texas to be "parted out" to be used to repair the ones being used in Iraq. These "Hueys" had all been outfitted as tankers to specifically fight the wild fires here in Colorado. There were 12 of them, Owens sent Bush 11.......

mountain grammy

(26,600 posts)
13. We had one of our worst fire years under Owen
Mon Apr 13, 2020, 04:25 PM
Apr 2020

I was visiting my grands back east and watching the news.. Owen's comes on and says "Colorado's on fire" Of course there was no fire in my part of the state near Rocky Mtn. National Park where most of our revenue comes from summer tourism. We lost a lot of money that summer thanks to that idiot Owens.

DENVERPOPS

(8,792 posts)
19. Owens would have done anything
Mon Apr 13, 2020, 05:20 PM
Apr 2020

for Bush to achieve a spot in the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld Republican administration.

But Cheney was way too smart to do that, because even the Republican Party realized they didn't need the bad press that would rain down on them from appointing him to anything.

It seems it all came to a head, when Owens wife finally divorced him while he was still in office. She had had enough.....Seems that while he was in office and still married to her, that he had TWO illegitimate children, with TWO DIFFERENT women within a couple of years.......(Perfect Republican Politician Behavior)

He is just like Trump. If Owens did all that now he would have earned the high respect of Trump and Republicons and would have certainly become a high ranking member of Trump's administration.

Some of Owen's actions/legacy are still present here in Colorado, and still damaging all of us residents.
It will be no different than Trump's actions/legacy in the years to come, but on a much larger scale....

mountain grammy

(26,600 posts)
24. Agree!
Mon Apr 13, 2020, 05:53 PM
Apr 2020

But nobody has damaged Colorado more than Douglas Bruce and TABOR.. That happened a few years after I moved here from Texas. I remember listening to Bruce and thinking nobody would buy what that guy's selling. Boy was I wrong.

So between the defective Gallagher Amendment and TABOR, Colorado continues to have cash flow problems even when times are good. Our roads are crap.

One thing for sure. I'm glad Polis is governor during this crisis. He's been my Congressman since 2009 and while I think he put business ahead of workers a few times, I was usually happy with him. I let him know when I didn't agree with him and always got a decent reply. A form letter, I'm sure, but well thought out and explaing his vote. I still disagreed, and I'll never see things like a wealthy business owner because I've never been one, but he responded.

Now I have Joe Neguse... I like him even better. I'm so glad my county is in Boulder's district or my rep would be a whacky right winger like my state senator.

DENVERPOPS

(8,792 posts)
25. Most interesting is that Colorado
Mon Apr 13, 2020, 06:02 PM
Apr 2020

seems for the most part to love Polis. Evidenced by the Republican Recall effort that needed like 60,000 signatures and they got a few thousand........

The Republicans seem to hate him, if for no other reason than he is gay, but they look the other way when it comes to their all-star Lindsey Graham.......

mountain grammy

(26,600 posts)
27. Well Lindsey is still in the closet where republicans want him
Mon Apr 13, 2020, 06:10 PM
Apr 2020

while Polis is married with children ( the horror!) But, thanks to a huge influx of people and voting by mail, Colorado is blue now, let's keep it that way..

My true blue niece just moved to Co Springs.. the times are changing.

mountain grammy

(26,600 posts)
32. Oh she knows, she knows.
Mon Apr 13, 2020, 08:22 PM
Apr 2020

She was living in Florida. Got a good promotion to move to the Springs. I told her living in Colorado is a promotion all by itself..

We went to the Women's March in DC together. She just might flip the Spings..

DENVERPOPS

(8,792 posts)
28. And the loss of the forest's too
Mon Apr 13, 2020, 06:12 PM
Apr 2020

Usually, the forestry people say in about 60 years, the forest gets back to the original condition.
But during the Hayman fire here in Colorado, the abnormally and extremely high temperatures created by the intensity of that particular wild fire melted all the sand in the soil into a layer of glass and they estimate it will take 600 years for that massive area of land to get back to normal.......

Heaven forbid if the entire Rocky Mountain Range, from New Mexico to Canada catches fire. There are hundreds of millions of acres of dead trees left over from the Beetle kill that took place over the past ten years.....

mountain grammy

(26,600 posts)
33. I know..it would be devastating..
Mon Apr 13, 2020, 08:24 PM
Apr 2020

I live up in Grand Lake. 25 years now. Still can't get used to not having a forest behind my house.. it's been gone over 10 years..

There is a lot of new growth though. Some of the wetter areas have really filled in nicely..

DENVERPOPS

(8,792 posts)
7. It only took six months
Mon Apr 13, 2020, 03:34 PM
Apr 2020

for the radioactive isotopes from Fuckashima's nuclear reactor melt down to travel the pacific oceans currents and come down the entire west coast of America......

I wonder how long it will take for Russia's radioactive smoke/particles, to cover a major amount of the Western hemisphere........

A year or two ago the increasing smog in the western U.S. was traced down to a portion of it coming from China.

DENVERPOPS

(8,792 posts)
17. I feel you missed my point......
Mon Apr 13, 2020, 05:04 PM
Apr 2020

Besides after the Bullshit Trump pulled in Syria, and then in Ukraine, how long before Russia annexes Ukraine, as well as complete control and domination of several other countries in the area........

Your point is correct, and sadly, so is mine........

DENVERPOPS

(8,792 posts)
21. Just checked on Ukraine/Russia VO
Mon Apr 13, 2020, 05:33 PM
Apr 2020

"The Chernobyl catastrophe happened on April 26, 1986, in a nuclear reactor at the Chernobyl nuclear plant near the city of Pripyat. This place is now in Ukraine, HOWEVER, BACK IN 1986, IT WAS STILL PART OF THE USSR...But the main reason the Chernobyl catastrophe is linked to Russia is that the post-explosion pollution fallout affected large territories and population of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and other Soviet republics".

So, you are technically correct, but for all practical purposes, it would serve Putin's Russia well to fight the wildfires...

whopis01

(3,491 posts)
8. It would spread the radiation
Mon Apr 13, 2020, 03:39 PM
Apr 2020

Trees and other vegetation have absorbed radioactive particles from the ground. When they burn, this would be released into the atmosphere.

There are also a large number of abandoned, contaminated vehicles in the area. Everything from trucks to helicopters. Its been a long time since they were left there - so fuel burning may not be much of an issue, but things like tires and such could be a potential source.

DENVERPOPS

(8,792 posts)
22. Sorta reminds me of a fire
Mon Apr 13, 2020, 05:50 PM
Apr 2020

at Rocky Flats years ago. Just bordering the Denver area to the NorthWest.......

They had a "little" fire one day in their plutonium production buildings and the wind was blowing directly over Denver and surrounding metro communities........

It seems, that the fire sent FOURTEEN POUNDS OF POWDERED PLUTONIUM into the air during that fire.

The firefighters at Rocky Flats told me that they were trained that if one atom of plutonium gets into their lungs, that that is it for that individual.....

Interesting that Colorado's Attorney General at the time was a Republican. Gale Norton. The Grand Jury that was convened, came up with the recommendation of fining Rockwell 60 Billion dollars for damages and clean up.
Gale Norton reduced it to ten million. She was soon thereafter given the U.S. cabinet position of Secretary of the Interior or Secretary of the EPA, (I can't remember which) as a reward for her taking such good care of Rockwell Corporation.......

WASF

DENVERPOPS

(8,792 posts)
34. Thx ILZ
Mon Apr 13, 2020, 09:44 PM
Apr 2020

I couldn't remember, but I sure can remember the smirk on her face......

Interestingly, a member of the Grand Jury, who isn't allowed to tell anything to the public, defied that law, took a copy of the Grand Jury proceedings to the Local Denver Papers, which they sprung to the public, and the Grand Juror went to prison. He said he didn't care, he felt the people of Colorado should know what the Republicans were doing, even back then.....

Other than that, nothing ever happened to Rockwell, and Rocky Flats just sits there waiting........

MuseRider

(34,095 posts)
37. I read a book about Rocky Flats,
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 09:18 AM
Apr 2020

it was horrifying what that corporation was allowed to do, what it did and what happened. ANYONE who was associated with supporting and covering that up should have spent all the rest of their days in prison.

DENVERPOPS

(8,792 posts)
40. That was why
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 02:50 PM
Apr 2020

Last edited Tue Apr 14, 2020, 03:29 PM - Edit history (1)

the Grand Juror leaked the proceedings, knowing he would go to jail.
And Gale Norton was given a choice spot in the Bush Administration, having proven she was indeed corrupt enough and corporation loving enough to deserve the position.
Meanwhile, there are groups wanting to open up all the land Rocky Flats was on, for recreational use....
Luckily a group of people were successful in explaining to the people the dangers in the soil that still remain.
The grand jury said 60 BILLION would be needed, and that was 20? years ago. Meanwhile, every time we get strong winds coming down out of the foothills and across Rocky Flats, I wonder how much of that Plutonium enriched surface dirt is in the air all over the entire Denver metro area.......

For some reason, Colorado has been used as the location for numerous methyl-ethyl Bad Shit production and storage nightmares, most still here and just waiting for the right moment to rear their ugly little heads....

Oh, and there have been other Major Republican Women from Colorado.........
One of them, whose son was recently appointed to the U.S. Supreme Court, was Ann Gorsuch who was in the Bush administration, as director of the EPA, and just before she was found profoundly corrupt by the U.S. Congress, she resigned and skipped out of town......During her tenure, she was busy dismantling the entire EPA and was quite successful considering the short two year period she was in charge......

Mitch and Donny wanted her son on the Supreme court........

NickB79

(19,224 posts)
14. Yes.
Mon Apr 13, 2020, 04:38 PM
Apr 2020

The one saving grace is that it's been 34 yr since the meltdown, and radioactivity is now somewhat reduced since the meltdown, due to radioactive decay.

NNadir

(33,477 posts)
23. Paranoia aside, the effects are not likely to be overly dramatic. The primary volatile nuclides...
Mon Apr 13, 2020, 05:52 PM
Apr 2020

that were released in the 1986 fires were I-131 - which probably had the most profound health effects for the entire event - Cs-137 and Cs-134, Sr-90. I remind everyone that the Chernobyl core burned for weeks in 1986.

They were spread widely and were detectable over Western Europe, which is why the Western Europeans. beginning with Sweden, knew the event was taking place.

The half-life of Iodine-131 is eight days; the short half-life was the reason that it was highly radioactive. All of it has now decayed to xenon-131, the non-radioactive isotope that has been in Earth's atmosphere basically since its formation.

The half-life of Cs-134, a neutron capture product of non-radioactive Cs-133, the natural isotope of cesium that is also a fission product is 2.0652 years. By use of the radioactive decay law, which should be taught in high schools, despite the fact that it clearly isn't, since most people are ignorant of nuclear science, one can determine that the residual radioactivity is 0.000011068 of what it was in 1986, about one 100,000th of that amount. Since cesium is volatile, it was spread over a wide area and any local concentration of this particular isotope will easily be overwhelmed in anyone breathing fumes containing it by the naturally radioactive potassium-40 that all living things contain, without which they would die, since potassium is an essential element.

The main radioactivity still present in the Chernobyl exclusion zone, which is obviously quite alive, derives from two nuclides, Cs-137, and Sr-90, although other less volatile elements are present in trivial quantities.

The half-life of Cs-137 is 30.08 years. Again, by appeal to the radioactive decay law, this means that in purely radiochemical terms, the fraction remaining is 0.4568 the original amount released. However, cesium is fairly soluble within its limits of adhesion to soil particles, and almost certainly a fair fraction has run off.

The biological half-life of cesium, as opposed to its physical half-life is on the order of 2 to 3 years, depending on the species of uptake.

It has undoubtedly been leaching into the Priyapat River, and ultimately into the Black Sea for decades. Some of it has been carried to deep soil layers, much as potassium is. Some has been transported away by birds who have eaten grains and berries grown in the exclusion zone, but the maximal amount is 45.7% of what was released in 1986, which was clearly not enough to make the Chernobyl exclusion zone devoid of life, since were it, nothing would live there, and nothing would be flammable.

Nuclear energy is the only form of energy that can save the world from climate change. The idea that so called "renewable energy" is sufficient to do that has been disproved, graphically in spades by direct measurement, despite the squandering of trillions of dollars on this environmentally suspect chimera.

Ignorance about nuclear energy is frankly dooming humanity to ever greater paroxysms of destruction.

Between six and seven million people die every year from air pollution. This suggests that at a minimum, since 1986, something like 200,000,000 human beings lost their lives from it.

It would be a decent and ethical world in which we showed as much emotion about the 200,000,000 dead as we do for anything connected with Chernobyl.

But we don't.

Nuclear energy need not be without risk, it need not be perfect nor harmless to be vastly superior to all other alternatives. It only needs to be vastly superior to all other alternatives, which it is.

Ignorance kills people.

Mersky

(4,980 posts)
30. Super helpful for putting this into perspective
Mon Apr 13, 2020, 06:28 PM
Apr 2020

My takeaway: Need to put out the fires, but there isn’t an impending radioactive disaster thanks to radioactive decay and dispersion over the years.

And noted on the wider need to logically assess the use of nuclear energy as a solution to reducing carbon emissions if we want to get serious about curbing climate change.

I still think about your OP* regarding wind to hydrogen wherein you detailed the energy consumed just building *renewable* energy sources. The use of coal in steel processing boggles the mind.

*https://www.democraticunderground.com/122863977

NNadir

(33,477 posts)
35. Thanks. I actually spent a lot of time on that one, but I really didn't expect anyone to read it.
Mon Apr 13, 2020, 10:52 PM
Apr 2020

I did learn a lot from writing it though, which was the point at the end of the day. I really don't expect much readership.

I'm very pleased you got the point though. So called "renewable energy" has done essentially nothing in connection with climate change other than to entrench the use of dangerous fossil fuels and the indiscriminate dumping of dangerous fossil fuel waste.

While the reason for being a Democrat is to support justice, fairness - and I still think, poverty - and many other things, I think of the anti-nuke wing of our party as being our equivalent of their creationists. Our claim that so called "renewable energy" is an unambiguous good is a very dangerous delusion that will worsen the lives of everyone who comes after us.

As for that post, despite all the work, it looks like some of the links to graphic went dead in that post.

Oh well...

Thanks so much for reading and of course, for having a mind clear enough to think. My feeling is that it makes you somewhat unusual. Open minds are becoming an endangered species, I think.

DENVERPOPS

(8,792 posts)
41. Nadir
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 03:16 PM
Apr 2020

Your article was thoughtfully prepared and thank you for sharing.

I think the main thing that has plagued the nuclear energy production in the U.S. is not necessarily the dangers of the radioactive material, but the shortcomings surrounding these plants. It has been clearly shown that most of the nightmares have been caused not by the material, but by the cost cutting during building these plants, and the cost cutting in the operation and maintenance......

Do you agree with that?

I read a long history of Hanaford? up in the State of Washington.........HOLY SHIT, talk about one scary son of a bitch, just waiting around the bend.....WOW. Most interesting to me was the corner cutting, cost cutting, and willful coverups by the Military and Government through out it's history, making it what it appears to be today...
a nuclear time-bomb of incredible proportion......There again, not because of anything except profiteering, and ignoring all safety......

Would you agree with my thinking on just how bad that place is and will be in the future, or do you think I am being influenced by what I read into thinking it is not nearly as bad as the info I read....

Seriously, Nadir, you seem to be far more educated, and I am interested in your thinking.

Thx in advance, and I am in hopes you will explain more nuclear science to us, rather than what we are used to hearing from un-qualified sources.....

Here in Colorado, we have THREE major impending nightmares. Only one is Nuclear, the other two are outrageously dangerous and quite large Chemical Warfare production/storage sites. The same problems with cost cutting and maintenance/safety protections are the roots of the problem..one is in NorthEast Denver, the other un-fathomable chemical nightmare is in Pueblo.

NNadir

(33,477 posts)
42. I think I made it clear that 200 million people have died from air pollution since 1986.
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 04:54 PM
Apr 2020

Why is Hanford more scary than that?

I have spent many, many, many years collecting literature on Hanford and a great many other topics connected with nuclear issues.

My journal here, most of which consists of what are admittedly technical commentaries, gives a feel for maybe 1% or 0.1% of what I have learned in 30 years of studying this issue. You are, of course, invited to read it by scrolling through it. Feel free to ask any questions you may have.

My journal is here: NNadir's Journal

I regret I can't transmit 30 years of library research on nuclear issues in a few blog posts.

Many of my recent posts have concerned environmental and disease issues. as well as other issues - I work in the pharmaceutical industry and am thus qualified to discuss some topics in connection to human disease - but here is a sample of one of many issues about which I have written on nuclear energy: Material balance evaluation of pyroprocessing for minor actinide transmutation nitride fuel.

(Regrettably, many graphics links in my posts, which link to the original scientific papers, have died, although they remain live in this one.)

The description of Hanford as a "nuclear time bomb" is just silly. In the very worst case, if it ever leads to death, the number of deaths will be easily swamped by the number of deaths that will take place today from air pollution, which is 19,000.

Here is the most recent full report from the Global Burden of Disease Report, a survey of all causes of death and disability from environmental and lifestyle risks from one of the world's premier medical journals, Lancet: Global, regional, and national comparative risk assessment of 79 behavioural, environmental and occupational, and metabolic risks or clusters of risks, 1990–2015: a systematic analysis for the Global Burden of Disease Study 2015 (Lancet 2016; 388: 1659–724) One can easily locate in this open sourced document compiled by an international consortium of medical and scientific professionals how many people die from causes related to air pollution, particulates, ozone, etc.

It would be of interest if anyone can find "nuclear accidents" or Hanford on that list.

The condition that illuminates all public fears of nuclear materials is selective attention. The rote assumption is that if anyone dies from a radioactive material, it therefore justifies killing hundreds of millions of people using technologies that have far inferior safety profiles in their normal operations than nuclear energy has in either accidental or in sloppiness, Hanford being an example of sloppiness, although it will not lead to 19,000 deaths over many thousands of years, never mind in a single day.

I would submit that the condition of the atmosphere, which is the result of pretending that nuclear energy was "too dangerous" while dumping tens of billions of tons of the dangerous fossil fuel waste carbon dioxide (not to mention all the toxic heavy metals and carcinogens in air pollution) was not too dangerous, is a far greater concern than Hanford.

We've had people screaming about so called "nuclear waste" for decades, half a century really. How many people have died as a result of so called "nuclear waste," exactly?

There are some very, very, very, very poorly educated people - ignorant people - who go around saying all the time that there is no "safe" level of radiation. Uniformly these people have clearly never opened a science book in their lives. Potassium is an essential element, without which any human being would die. All of the potassium on earth is radioactive owing to the long half life of the K-40 isotope. A 70 kg person will undergo between 4,000 and 5,000 internal K-40 nuclear decays every second, without which, again, they will die.

The Hanford tanks have been leaking for decades. There is no evidence that they have contaminated any person with an amount of radioactivity that corresponds to 4,000 to 5,000 decays per second.

It is very likely that the outcome will not vary all that much with what was observed at the Oklo natural nuclear reactors which operated in modern day Gabon about 1.8 billion years ago: Most of the radionuclides, with some exceptions, decayed to non radioactive species before traveling all that far.

Modeling the short-term and long-term behaviour of the Oklo natural nuclear reactor phenomenon (Ibekwe, et al., Progress in Nuclear Energy Volume 118, January 2020, 103080)

Irrespective of the widely studied Oklo reactors, if however, someone is injured by Hanford leaks, it will pale with what we routinely accept every day from dangerous fossil fuel use without even a whimper.

Nuclear energy need not be perfect, it need not be without risk, to be vastly superior to everything else. It only needs to be vastly superior to everything else, which it is.

It is a crime against humanity, in my view, to oppose nuclear energy.

Nuclear Energy saves lives:

Prevented Mortality and Greenhouse Gas Emissions from Historical and Projected Nuclear Power (Pushker A. Kharecha* and James E. Hansen Environ. Sci. Technol., 2013, 47 (9), pp 4889–4895)

DENVERPOPS

(8,792 posts)
43. Thank you for the time it took for you to answer my posting
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 05:21 PM
Apr 2020

It certainly will take me some time to read it all, which I guarantee you I will.

Thank you again for your time and effort to not only research these vast subjects, but to share them with people who have an interest in Science, not fallacy.....

One other question, do you also have any thoughts on Wind and Solar energy?????????
Any thoughts and writings on those that I can reference????

NNadir

(33,477 posts)
44. You're welcome. I have become, in recent years, a rather strong critic of solar and wind...
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 07:08 PM
Apr 2020

...energy.

Again, many of my thoughts on this subject are contained in my journal.

The central argument is that the low energy to mass ratio, as well as the requirement for the use of dangerous fossil fuels to process these materials, as well as their unacceptably short life times, makes solar and wind unsustainable and environmentally unacceptable.

Here is what I often say: There is a reason that humanity abandoned so called "renewable energy" in the early 19th century. The reason is that even more so than today, the overwhelming majority of human beings lived short, unhealthy lives in dire poverty.

The failure of the uncritical belief that so called "renewable energy" will save the day is written in the planetary atmosphere. We have spent in the last decade, more than two trillion dollars on solar and wind energy, with the result that the accumulations of carbon dioxide are accelerating, not declining.

I provided the data most recently here this weekend: New Record Weekly CO2 Concentration Record Set at the Mauna Loa Observatory 416.45 ppm. I note, in some terror, as discussed in that post, that we are now scraping the unbelievable rate of increase in carbon dioxide concentrations of 2.5 ppm per year. This compares with a rate of 1.0 - 1.5 ppm as recently as the 20th century.

This is what we have to show for trillions of dollars.

These trillions of dollars - two trillion dollars is more than the GDP of India, a nation with 1.3 billion people in it - were spent on so called "renewable energy," this on a planet where close to two billion people lack access to even primitive sanitary systems.

The data detailing these expenditures is found here:

Source: UNEP/Bloomberg Global Investment in Renewable Energy, 2019

Here is the breakdown of energy use and growth on this planet in the 21st century:

In this century, world energy demand grew by 179.15 exajoules to 599.34 exajoules.

In this century, world gas demand grew by 50.33 exajoules to 137.03 exajoules.

In this century, the use of petroleum grew by 34.79 exajoules to 188.45 exajoules.

In this century, the use of coal grew by 63.22 exajoules to 159.98 exajoules.

In this century, the solar, wind, geothermal, and tidal energy on which people so cheerfully have bet the entire planetary atmosphere, stealing the future from all future generations, grew by 9.76 exajoules to 12.27 exajoules.

12.27 exajoules is slightly over 2% of the world energy demand.

2019 Edition of the World Energy Outlook Table 1.1 Page 38] (I have converted MTOE in the original table to the SI unit exajoules in this text.)


Here is a table of sources of energy that I prepared from the International Energy Agency’s 2017, 2018, and 2019 Editions of the World Energy Outlook:




While the enthusiasm for so called "renewable energy" continues unabated, at the expense of all future generations, it is also clear that so called "renewable energy" is an expensive failure, at least if the goal is to displace dangerous fossil fuels and/or address climate change. It didn't work. It isn't working. It won't work.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,325 posts)
10. The solution is simple. Putin should invade Ukraine incorporate it into Russia.
Mon Apr 13, 2020, 03:49 PM
Apr 2020

Then, any news of an alleged forest fire will vanish. Anyone attempting to start rumors about alleged forest fires will accidentally fall out of windows.

Trump would give the Ukrainian government all the support he gave the Kurds.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,271 posts)
36. Chernobyl fire under control, Ukraine officials say
Tue Apr 14, 2020, 06:59 AM
Apr 2020
A fire that threatened the abandoned Chernobyl nuclear plant has been contained, Ukrainian authorities said.

Emergency services said on Tuesday there were still some "smouldering" parts of the forest floor, but there was "no open fire" left.
...
"We are trying to stop the spread of several hot spots of fire," said Volodymyr Demchuk, a senior official from Ukraine's emergency service.

Aircraft dropped 538 tons of water on the blaze on Monday, the statement said. Background radiation in and around the capital Kyiv "is within normal limits".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52277414

Let's hope that's true.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,271 posts)
45. Wildfires blanket Kyiv in thick smog
Sat Apr 18, 2020, 04:37 AM
Apr 2020
Acrid smoke from wildfires, including blazes near the defunct Chernobyl nuclear plant, has blanketed Ukraine's capital Kyiv, making its air pollution among the worst in the world.

Kyiv's pollution now ranks alongside that of several Chinese cities, Swiss monitoring group IQAir reports.
...
Ukraine's health ministry says radiation levels remain normal and Chernobyl faces no immediate threat.

At one point on Thursday, according to the IQAir index, Kyiv's air pollution was the worst in the world.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52329498
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