Biden Says We Should 'Protect' Columbus, Washington and Jefferson Statues

[ForgoTheConsequence]

Source: Newsweek

Former Vice President Joe Biden said during a press conference Tuesday the government has a "responsibility to protect" the statues of Christopher Columbus, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.

"Taking down, toppling the Christopher Columbus statue or the George Washington statue, I think that is something that the government has an opportunity and a responsibility to protect from happening," Biden said when asked about his thoughts on monuments and statues being removed across the country.

Read more: https://www.newsweek.com/biden-says-we-should-protect-columbus-washington-jefferson-statues-1514516

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Top 5 atrocities committed by Christopher Columbus


Bartolome de las Casas, a young priest who participated in the conquest of Cuba and wrote a history of the Indies, describes the treatment of the natives: “Endless testimonies ... prove the mild and pacific temperament of the natives. ... But our work was to exasperate, ravage, kill, mangle and destroy; small wonder, then, if they tried to kill one of us now and then.... The admiral, it is true, was blind as those who came after him, and he was so anxious to please the King that he committed irreparable crimes against the Indians ...“ Las Casas describes how Spaniards rode on the backs of natives. How the Spaniards "thought nothing of knifing Indians by tens and twenties and of cutting slices off them to test the sharpness of their blades." Las Casas adds "two of these so-called Christians met two Indian boys one day, each carrying a parrot; they took the parrots and for fun beheaded the boys."

https://rapidcityjournal.com/lifestyles/people/top-5-atrocities-committed-by-christopher-columbus/collection_76ebb2b8-f63d-11e3-a137-001a4bcf887a.html#5



We should not have monuments to a sociopath and serial killer. Monuments to Columbus are spitting in the face of Indigenous People.

[Drunken Irishman]

1. Disagree on the Columbus ones but it's probably smart politics.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

2. If you want to sell out indigenous people for the chance at a few Trump supporters, maybe.

The people angry about the Columbus statues coming down are mostly bigots (I heard many call Indigenous people "savages" ) and right-wing Trumpers.

[JudyM]

5. It's long past time for them to be educated about facts and human decency.

[Drunken Irishman]

15. I doubt it's just a few Trumpers.

It also opens the door to questions regarding everything Columbus.

Even the capital of our nation, as Columbia originated from Columbus.

This is a much more divisive issue than Confederate statues and monuments.

In 2017, roughly 60% of Americans supported celebrating Columbus Day. Only 30% opposed it.

Nearly 60% hold a positive view of Columbus.

http://www.kofc.org/en/news/media/americans-support-columbus-day.html

That means there's a lot of Democrats who likely support it, and him, too - so, no, it's not just Trump supporters out there who might be against this.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

20. Pragmatism at the expense of Indigenous people.

I guess we'll have to wait until the polling comes around to do the right thing. A sad statement on this country and the Democratic party.

[Drunken Irishman]

24. It's winning at the expense of losing.

This election might feel like it's in hand but with how fluid it's been the last few weeks, anything can shift it and I'm sure the last thing any of us want is to hand Trump a resonating message on something Biden likely has very little impact over, beyond just a symbolic endorsement.

Look, it sucks that Biden isn't bold enough to put himself against 60% of the country on an issue, but at this stage my goal is to win and hope, after we win, we can begin changing the narrative and the support for guys like Columbus. But endorsing mobs tearing down Columbus statues is not going to help.

Sorry you want him to take a politically tough position. I get we'd like Biden to be bold. But I'm sure he's not going to risk giving Trump an opening on this issue knowing Biden flat out can't really do much on his end anyway.

[still_one]

40. Exactly. Focus on winning the WH and both houses of Congress. If that is accomplished, then

we can deal with everything else

Do this after the election

There is such a thing as priorities, and when you are up to your ass in alligators, it's easy to forget you came to drain the swamp

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/504130-majority-say-confederate-statues-should-remain-poll

[lagomorph777]

70. +1 Win and then educate the public.

[Demsrule86]

64. Oh please....always trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Biden is right.

[Drahthaardogs]

58. De las Casas

Likely fudged his own notes. Not to mention Moctezuma sacrificed 80,000 people at his coronation. Completely different world 500 years ago

[delisen]

23. I believe the term savages is also in the Declaration of Independence

"merciless indian savages".

The Obelisk is a perfectly fine name for the Washington Monument and The District of Columbia must be renamed and can be done in preparing for statehood.

[Stallion]

75. What Color Would You Like to Call the Sky in Your World?

[delisen]

77. If you have a logical argument I am open to listening n/t

[Stallion]

78. Your Argument Doesn't deserve a Rational Response Because You are Out on an Island of One

renaming the Washington Monument The Obelisk. Yeah that ain't going to happen and any politician much less a Presidential candidate would be laughed off the stage for even suggesting such a ridiculous idea.

[Kaleva]

59. As none of us are going to hand our property to them, the rightful owners,

toppling a few statues might make us feel like we are doing something.

[The Magistrate]

3. Indeed, Sir

I hold no particular brief for Columbus, but this is the right political line.

The whole statue thing, at least when expanded beyond Confederate memorials, is a foolish distraction.

Note it is statues, not brutal policing or even present day systemic racism, that has come to feature in the headlines.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

18. Why does it end with Confederate statues?

Those statues were built during reconstruction to enforce submission and promote fear. An Indigenous person may feel those same feelings when looking at a statue of a homicidal maniac with a federal holiday in his honor.

[The Magistrate]

45. Because That Is As Far As Wide Popularity Goes, Sir

Actually most of those statues went up well after Reconstruction.

Reconstruction was the attempt to secure some liberty for recently emancipated freemen, an effort which was abandoned after President Grant's administration.

This was succeeded by the Jim Crow period, the height of which was the turning of the centuries, with the Plessy v. Fergusson decision. The seal was put on it by Wilson's segregation of Federal employment, and the popularity of Griffith's 'Birth of a Nation', which directly inspired a rebirth of the Ku Klux Klan. It was in this period most of the monuments to the Confederacy went up. There was a second spate of them near the Centennial of the war, which coincided with the Civil Rights movement.

In practical political life, particularly in a year of nationwide election on which a great deal depends, there is simply no point in getting out ahead of public opinion. This is moving in our direction, but could still be spooked by things most people consider both idiotic and irrelevant.

Removal of monuments to the Confederacy is viewed by most as attacking symbols of racism. Agitation against statues of Washington and Jefferson is viewed by most as attacking the country. What is widely viewed as attacking the country loses every time in a democratic polity, because most people love their country, and consider themselves attacked by attacks on it. It does not matter if you and a few others view agitation against statues of Washington and Jefferson as attacks on racism, not the country. It does not even matter if you are right. The contrary view is the general one, and you are not going to persuade the voting public it is wrong in the foreseeable future.

[GulfCoast66]

60. Excellent and accurate summation.

Most were put up 30-40 years after Reconstruction.

I wish more people knew how detrimental Wilson was to the situation of African Americans. He was a monster.

And his policies and approval of the ‘new klan’ led to the spate of massacres and lynchings after WWI when returning black soldiers tried to exercise their rights as citizens.

I live 5 miles from Ocoee, Florida. In 1920 a Prosperous black man tried to vote. And that set of a lynch mob to find him.

Rumor spread he was in another successful black mans house named July Perry. When they tried to break into his house to lynch him he killed 3 of them and ran them off. They called for reinforcements from Orlando and they ended up lynching him. Then burnt down ever black home and business in Ocoee and killing ever African American they found. This was 1920. Not 1880.

July Perry knew he was doomed. But he took out as many as he could. He is a true American hero. As in Nat Turner in my mind. These are the men military bases should be named after.

[mjvpi]

22. Agreed

The press is lazy. If you are going to spend 30 seconds on a statue, you would think that the story demands a dive into the history that inspired the statue in the first place. Their flippant handling of the statues story becomes a foil to the reality that is the history.

[The Magistrate]

46. And Given the Tight Time Budgets Of News Coverage, Sir

Thirty seconds spent on the symbolic irrelevance of statues is thirty seconds not spent on brutal policing and the popular outcry against it. One benefits the left and progressive cause, one does not. People to whom which is which is not obvious need to find another hobby....

[usaf-vet]

8. I disagree with it to...but why is it smart politics? I miss that point.

I live in a region of the country with a high population of Native Americans With two separate Reservations (Sovereign Nations) who let's just say are not great fans of Columbus. My bet is Biden will lose votes there. However, I don't believe they will vote republican. They will just stay at home. IMHO

[Drunken Irishman]

19. Because most Americans aren't against Columbus.

In 2017, 60% said we should celebrate Columbus Day.

http://www.kofc.org/en/news/media/americans-support-columbus-day.html

While 56% of America's found him favorable. Only 28% view him negatively.

Coming out against someone who nearly 60% of the country holds a positive view of might be bold, but it absolutely is not smart politics.

[mjvpi]

25. In 2017 police brutality didn't result in massive demonstrations.

[Drunken Irishman]

27. Well find me a newer poll that shows different results & I'll change my view.

I was asked why I thought it was bad politics. I answered citing the most recent data that I could find. If it's changed, great. But I'm not going to assume it has without actual evidence.

[mjvpi]

34. Watch for one after Biden's statement.

I’m not trying to pick a fight. I haven’t seen a specific pole. I just watch the news. The major cities in my state of Montana now celebrate Indigenous People’s Day. In 2019 the legislature almost made it law for the state. Right wing crazies killed it in committee. The public supported it. While not a pole, I’ll take what I see with my own eyes as evidence that things have changed in the last three years.

[Drunken Irishman]

50. I'm not fighting. I'm going off facts that exist right now.

[PTWB]

61. Bleh.

Campaigns with messaging approved by focus groups are doomed. Hillary Clinton would have been better served by proclaiming her progressive credentials instead of attempting to appeal to as large a swath in the middle as possible with carefully crafted, focus group approved messages. She is a damn national treasure and allowed her campaign to take the safe road instead of the high road.

[Drunken Irishman]

62. This isn't a progressive/conservative issue.

This is ridiculous. What do you think Biden should say? That he agrees that the statues should come down? That we should remove Washington's statues and change the nation's capital?

This is such a silly debate. Only a very small minority want to start tearing down statues to Columbus and Washington and Jefferson. Biden siding with that minority might as well just concede the election to Trump.

[PTWB]

65. He shouldn't say anything at all.

There’s a reason even the Republicans are getting on board with removing Columbus Day from Federal holidays. It is a disgrace to recognize and honor Columbus in any way, shape or form.

[Drunken Irishman]

66. He was asked a question.

Not saying anything at all wouldn't be an issue.

Whether it's a disgrace or not - Biden coming out and stating he supports people tearing down statues of Columbus puts him directly against a good majority of this country. The last thing any of us should want is for Biden to lose this election because he was seen as enabling a lot of these removals.

Biden is 100% correct.

[soothsayer]

4. It didn't really come across as that flatfooted when he said it

What mostly came across to me was that he understands the anger leading to statue toppling, but would prefer to see local governments addressing these things —and sooner, not later — as Mississippi did with their flag.

I wouldn’t paint him with the same broad brush as that dude in the bunker setting up a task force to protect the confederacy.

[Loki Liesmith]

6. Public property should not be toppled by mobs

There is a process. Use it.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

16. Because that "process" has worked out so well in the past for Indigenous People.

Broken treaties, stolen land. "trust the white man's process".

[raging moderate]

7. I'm about Joe's age. They lied to us about Columbus.

They lied to us about George Washington and Thomas Jefferson and Christopher Columbus. Our school books, even in Chicago, made it sound as though these guys were idealistic guys who did their best to be kind and honest in the imperfect system they happened to find themselves living. Also, of course, the Italian-Americans seemed to feel so sad about St. Patrick's Day, we just had to let them have a hero from their own country. Especially after we had died the river green on March 17th, and all. Seriously, I was shocked when I grew up and read some real history books.

[GemDigger]

9. If they were a president and the statue is of their presidency then

I think they should stand. If the statue is for their military glory (or loss) then it should be removed. Columbus needs to go.

[brush]

10. IMO it's about the confederate traitor statues and name changes...

and other out-and-out known racists like Wilson, or like the Teddy Roosevelt statue depicting him, a white man standing over statues of a native American and a enslaved black man in subservient positions.

[RussBLib]

11. Columbus not in the same league as Washington and Jefferson

Columbus quest was for riches and conquest. Washington & Jefferson, while they owned slaves, built this country. All things are not equal.

[delisen]

28. built this country? apparently Jefferson built it on the backs of slaves.

Are we going to put up statues of the Puritan witch hunters?

[ripcord]

57. So how far do you want to take this?

[delisen]

73. as far as it needs to go.

In the early 1980s I was asked to sponsor one of many meeting for recognition of the wrongness of Japanese Internment Camps. That movement had gained traction during the administration of Jimmy Carter wh had been receptive to it

Roosevelt had made a political decision to intern Americans of Japanese descent during World War II. Eventually the wrong was acknowledged and then token reparations paid.

Eleanor Roosevelt had spoken out in opposition to the camps during the war. (There is no monument to her in Washington D.C and monuments to women in DC are extremely scarce). Statuary Hall in the Capitol Building has only 9 statues of women out of 100.

These monuments in our public places are overwhelmingly of white males. Aside from being weirdly narcissistic, these monuments press a false narrative of our history upon all of us and contribute to building a prejudiced future

The lives of Washington and Jefferson should not be exempt from reckoning on the basis that they were "founding fathers" of our country. The we believe our myths instead of our facts we build on sand.

[dawg day]

12. Let's stop talking about statues.

This is a Trump diversion. Don't follow him. Nod thoughtfully and change the subject to THE PANDEMIC. PUTIN PAYING FOR THE MURDERS OF OUR SOLDIERS AND TRUMP NOT CARING.

Cultural issues are devised by the GOP and have been for decades to divide us and force Americans into opposition to their own best interests. Let's not do it.

The whole statue thing will turn out some way or another. Trump can bloviate and rant as much as he wants, and it won't save one person in the ICU on a ventilator.

EYES ON THE PRIZE:
Public health
Public education
Healthcare for all.

Extended unemployment benefits.
Help for every small business-- not loans, grants-- that will keep employees paid.

Start planning for big expenditures on green technology and retrofitting every office building and commercial building in the country with Covid-resisting air systems.

Most important, none of this can happen until Trump is out of office.

He wants us distracted defending some stupid statue or some crowd trying to take down the stupid statue. Let's just focus on what will save lives.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

14. +1

[Lulu KC]

30. Yes, and while we're at it

Climate change. 100 degrees at the Arctic Circle. We ain't seen nothin' yet.

[The Magistrate]

47. Hear Hear, Sir!

"Focus, gentlemen! Focus!"

[Bernardo de La Paz]

13. The good that Washington & Jefferson did outweighs the bad. Columbus? Not so much. . . nt

[Scurrilous]

17. He's technically correct.

There are existing laws protecting public statues and monuments and it is the government's responsibility to enforce these protections. It is possible to remove these through means other than just tearing them down. There was a confederate statue in downtown Gainesville, FL when I went to school at UF. It's gone now. Through consensus. But I must admit I'm happy seeing some of these statues ripped the fuck down. It's long overdue and a start to the process of eventually removing them all. But it's best to have a process and not always leave the decision what to tear down to whomever has a stout rope and to them a good reason.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

21. Why should Indigenous peoples put any faith in the white man's process?

In 1868, Two Nations Made a Treaty, the U.S. Broke It and Plains Indian Tribes are Still Seeking Justice

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/1868-two-nations-made-treaty-us-broke-it-and-plains-indian-tribes-are-still-seeking-justice-180970741/


They almost always end up getting screwed.

[Scurrilous]

38. Biden was #2 guy in the Obama administration:

"Obama has been praised by many tribal leaders, including those who claim he has done more for Native Americans than all of his predecessors combined.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_policy_of_the_Barack_Obama_administration#:~:text=Carl%20Venne%2C%20Crow%20Indian%20Tribal,2008%20United%20States%20presidential%20election.


Joe Biden’s Commitment to Indian Country

https://nativenewsonline.net/currents/joe-bidens-commitment-to-indian-country/

[Politicub]

76. He didn't say we should stop agitating. He said that certain monuments should be protected.

And he didn't say from now until forever.

Just for the record, I am on the side of telling the truth about Columbus, and taking down statues and monuments that glorify him. His entire mythology is a lie, and needs to be corrected.

For Washington, people are just now learning that his teeth were from the mouths of his slaves, as one example. Monuments of him are furthering discourse about the original sins of the nation's founding. The founders' histories should not be papered over, but fully explained.

There's a big difference between statues of people who fought a war against the union. The rebels should not be glorified in any sense; just contextualized in a museum that tells the history of why they were put up in the first place.

[LisaM]

26. We know Biden is a "split the difference" guy. That's just a given.

As far as the statues, I think most of the Columbus ones should come down. Few, if any, have any relationship to the places where they are set up. But I don't see the need for an aggressive timetable. I think you get farther taking them quietly, after some discussion, without a bunch of fanfare.

Regarding the Confederate ones, which I also think should come down, I wish people would qualify when they were erected when they talk about them. I think they'd get a lot more traction for removal by saying, "This status of Robert E. Lee, erected in conjunction with KKK rallies in the 1920s...." or "This status of Jefferson Davis, put up by the Daughters of the Confederacy thirty years after the Civil War ended"....

If people realized that the statues had very little to do with the actual aftermath of the Civil War, I think they'd have a far more open mind to taking them down. I think everyone here mostly agrees on the offensiveness of the Confederate statues, but a lot of people in this country don't know how or when they were put up, and I (maybe I'm naive) think it would make a difference if they did.

[Lulu KC]

29. I believe he went on to say

that they belong in museums, not as monuments.
But that may have been another recent statement he made.
I won't take the time to do the research right now, but I don't think he's been all white supremacist about it. (as so many others have been about "but our history" etc.)

[Scurrilous]

43. ...

[Ferrets are Cool]

31. Well, this is something Mr. Biden and I will disagree about

Honoring Columbus is a travesty. Honoring a child molester and person who executed genocide is just wrong.

[Polybius]

32. It won't be popular, but I agree with Biden 100%

I'm solidly in the Biden camp. If he had taken the opposite position, he would have seriously irked me. There are millions like me in the Democratic Party, glad we have someone as great as Biden to support in November.

[rockfordfile]

33. I don't agree with with regards to Columbus

[sarisataka]

35. Does this mean I have to change my vote

And go third party or skip voting for President? Is the issue of statues greater than the election?

[ucrdem]

36. Las Casas is not denouncing Columbus or his relatives

but the Spaniards who followed to set up encomiendas. Las Casas was originally one of these, but after several conversion experiences became a cleric who spoke against the encomienda system. But this was long after Columbus had left the new world (1504) and the old (he died in 1506). Las Casas became a priest in Rome in 1507.

Anyway I think Biden is expressing the completely reasonable position that decisions about public monuments should be made in public and carried out in a responsible way. Pulling down statues of European explorers not directly responsible for slavery seems misguided at best and potentially dangerous.

Incidentally Las Casas early on recommended using African workers in place of indigenous populations as he felt they were physically better able to withstand the rigors demanded of them.

[marie999]

37. I agree that Columbus' statue should come down,

But unless Biden had been asked a direct question about this he should not have said anything. No matter how he had answered, it will cost him more votes than it will gain him. Sometimes a politician just has to say nothing.

[flibbitygiblets]

39. Biden would be wise to sit out "statue-gate" and let Agent Orange take all the heat

Why throw matches on that powder keg right now? Get elected first, by sticking to the IMPORTANT stuff: COVID, Russian Bounty, civil rights, economic recovery, VOTING RIGHTS.

[ucrdem]

41. The OP article says he was asked.

Yes, he could have dodged the question, but it's unlikely he wouldn't have immediately been called on it, in the ugliest possible ways.

[Scurrilous]

42. I think the Sopranos did an episode about this.

Tear them down and piss off Italian Americans. Don't tear them down and piss off Native Americans.

[Marcuse]

54. Van Zandt: "You take down one of our heroes, we'll take down one of yours "

The 'Crying Indian' ad that fooled the environmental movement

[link:https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-indian-crying-environment-ads-pollution-1123-20171113-story.html|

[Scurrilous]

55. I can remember when he was Miami Steve Van Zandt.

He wore Hawaiian shirts in the winter so the Jersey guys called him 'Miami.' LOL

[qwlauren35]

80. Thank you.

I loved that commercial.

But now I understand the idea that putting the idea of pollution on individual people deflected the onus on the industry that made the packaging.

I will remember this.

[Marcuse]

81. You are more than welcome.

[Drunken Irishman]

63. Biden was asked - what do you think he should have done?

"I am not going to answer that..."

He'd get eaten alive on ducking the question.

In fact, he was asked twice about the statue issue.

[Steelrolled]

44. Smart and reasonable position by Joe.

[Bayard]

48. Maybe reverse psychology

Trump will want to tear them down for sure now.

[beachbumbob]

49. totaly agree with Biden, the only shame we have are with Confederate monuments

[still_one]

51. The confederate statues are there to celebrate people who believed in owning other people,

and leaving the union to propagate those views. The only heritage they represent is a heritage of racism and bigotry

For other statues and memorials, such as George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, it isn't because the owned slaves, but because of their ideas about democracy

[milestogo]

52. What about lincoln?

[Sapient Donkey]

68. Has there been much discussion about tearing down Lincoln statues?

I know there is that one in Boston, and I admit before I saw it I thought people have totally lost their mind, but after seeing it I can see why some object to it. Although, I don't put that in the same category as say a confederate statue.

[milestogo]

69. Yes.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213659197

[Sapient Donkey]

79. Ahhh damn.

[ripcord]

72. What about FDR?

How far are we going to take this?

[Jimbo S]

82. University of Wisconsin

Has an iconic Lincoln statue on top of the tallest hill in front of the (no longer) admin building. Last week one of the student groups is requesting its removal. So far, the Chancellor is holding firm.

[Marcuse]

53. You know there will be non nude statues of a President Trump erected somewhere someday.

[regnaD kciN]

56. Washington and Jefferson, sure, but "Goodbye, Columbus"...

The bastard didn't even "discover America." (Not only is it hard to "discover" a land with thousands upon thousands of people already living there, but he wasn't even the first European to arrive.)

[Sapient Donkey]

67. Interesting he included Columbus in there.

I think a large portion of the country would agree with the statues of the presidents of the US (not the confederate states), but Columbus seems like he should be in a different debate.

[Tom Rinaldo]

71. Columbus should come down but Biden is Right

Yes that is a contradiction but this is the real world. The needle is moving against Columbus in public opinion but it isn't "there" yet. Agitation against Columbus must continue. A few years ago most white Americans didn't support "Black Lives Matter", now most do. A few years ago the Confederate flag still flew over some State Capitals, now it doesn't. Many Americans are intrinsically low information voters, but everyone knows that the Civil War was largely fought to end slavery. So the groundwork was laid for the repudiation of Confederate monuments.

Sadly, less Americans are aware of the personal role Columbus played in Native American genocide. Too many think that opposition to honoring Columbus is only about the fact that his ""Discovery of America" led to that genocide. A few years from now the time will arrive for Columbus to be formally dethroned, and all those of good will need to work to hasten that day. However right now too much is on the line this November for Biden to get too far ahead of the curve on Columbus.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

74. AGREED!!!! This is not to say that new places cant be found for them and/or other

new statues put in prominent places. Sure, demote Columbus or put him in a museum or storage when there is community consensus but just arbitrarily destroying historic artifacts is a mistake imho.