Bernie Sanders Sounds Alarm on a Trump 'Nightmare Scenario'

[brooklynite]

Source: New York Times

Senator Bernie Sanders is planning to mount an aggressive campaign to counter potential attempts by President Trump to delegitimize the results of the November election, warning that Democrats and Republicans alike must do “everything that we can to prevent that from happening.”

In a phone interview on Monday evening, Mr. Sanders said he would spend the next six weeks urging the country to prepare for a “nightmare scenario” in which Mr. Trump declares himself the winner of the election and refuses to step down even if he loses.

As part of his effort, he is set to deliver a speech in Washington on Thursday — his first in-person appearance related to the election since before he dropped out of the presidential race — to outline in stark terms the danger that he says Mr. Trump poses to the nation’s democracy.

“We are living in an unprecedented and dangerous moment — extremely dangerous moment — in American history,” Mr. Sanders said. “And what this speech is going to be about is whether or not the United States of America will continue to be a democracy and a nation ruled by law and our Constitution.”



Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/22/us/politics/bernie-sanders-trump-nightmare-scenario.html

[still_one]

1. The best antidote against the "unthinkable" is to GOTV, and win significantly so there won't be

any question about it

[certainot]

19. and continuing to do nothing about the 1500 radio stations that will be echoing trump

and have been setting us up for this for decades with their constant lying about democratic election fraud is exactly the wrong thing to do

[BComplex]

45. This is the issue that is screwing up this country in ways that we may not be able to reverse course

on. I don't know how news pundits keep acting like these news stations, and fox, are legitimate. They are what is programming the nutjobs that are supporting trump and the republicans.

[certainot]

53. at $1000/hr 1200 stns x 15 hrs/day is worth about $90M/week FREE anti biden and yet

democrats are hyper excited about the fundraising.

and it would be so easy to force the ad industry to break up the monopoly.

every advertiser, university, and pro sports team that broadcasts on RW radio should be asked if they support the racism and trump and be made aware that they are recognized for the part they are playing in supporting trump, his supporters, and this ongoing disaster

as soon as the advertising industry recognized it was coming it would act to prevent a large scale exodus of advertisers and sports to alternatives

and if republican senators realized many of the stations used to support them, intimidate them, and attack democrats - their only unique advantage - they would begin to desert trump and sure as hell would not support his planned election rejection

[BComplex]

54. Then this needs to become an action point with the BLM movement!

You make some great points, and I think we need more discussion on moving your points forward. If the sports teams realize how closely tied in these stations are to sports, they might start using their power to turn things around.

Thanks for your great post!

[heckles65]

2. Agree with you 100% on this one, Bernie.

[JudyM]

3. Smart defense to have him as a focal point on this critical issue. Prevent more slippery slope

erosion of our democracy by faux and the thugs by drawing a clear and stark line and educating people to see it for what it is, as soon as it starts happening. Cut trump’s legs off from under him.

[arlyellowdog]

4. I'm backing off the ledge

I’ve been reading the Upshot where Nate Cohn has been saying the the national polls are a lot Closer than the state polls which he said was really worrisome. So today he says, Whoopsie. The USC tracking poll he relies on actually was give results from 2 focus groups, alternating between the 13 point pro Biden group and the single digit pro Biden group. Biden isn’t losing any ground and the election is stable. So Cohn upped Biden’s chances to +10. Worth a read.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

37. National polls probably aren't all that useful,

since the election is decided state by state.

[ahoysrcsm]

66. Nationally...

Clinton won in 2016 by 3 million votes.

[JoeOtterbein]

5. BERNIE!

We need his revolutionary spirit more now than ever!

[Demsrule86]

7. I need nothing from Sanders.

[intheflow]

24. Not even this kind of speaking out, publicly warning of an impending coup?

Wow, do you feel the same way about the Lincoln Project? If not, it's people like you in the party who endanger votes from the left while embracing Republican-lite. We need Sanders' leftist views to get the votes. And Sanders is not his followers. Give this bitter shit up already.

[BComplex]

50. Thank you, intheflow!

Bernie is not the enemy, but there are those who would try to divide us further.

[LiberalLovinLug]

51. Thank you for speaking up

Even if one, for some reason I still don't get and never will, thinks he is a terrible person. A person who marched in the same marches as MLK, and has steadfastly promoted people first policies his whole life.

But ffs, THINK for a moment. Democrats still need the left. They still need a few more non-voters from last time to be energized to vote this time. Some just don't understand that. Or refuse to.

[George II]

13. We need him in Washington to perform his duties as Senator. Biden is our candidate.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

15. The two aren't exclusive.

Good luck winning an election without Bernie or his base.

[George II]

17. Except he's out there with a different message than our Candidate and somewhat different....

....than our Platform. Do you subscribe to his emails?

And he was complaining about Biden last week.

That's not a recipe for winning an election, either.

[not_the_one]

48. Be careful. Don't dare imply that we can't do it without his supporters.

Luckily, Bernie's supporters are not monolithic. They may not all think in black/white terms, as you suggest. Many are probably appalled at your implication.

Any Bernie supporter who doesn't vote for Biden due to having their feelings hurt because Bernie can't call the shots of the Biden campaign, and wants to throw a tantrum, has basically declared themselves a part of the problem, NOT the solution. They can join the turd in the baby's tantrum room. Fling poo at your leisure.

And we COULD do it without that small percentage of diehard supporters, which would make them completely irrelevant. It could also sideline Bernie. But apparently it's ok to do harm to Bernie in order to manufacture faux outrage.

NOBODY likes feeling irrelevant. But as someone very intelligent, like genius level, said, "it is what it is".

[murielm99]

20. He's missing a lot of votes again,

isn't he?

[George II]

21. So far he's missed 59% of the Senate votes in 2020.

[murielm99]

23. If anyone else missed 59% of their days of work,

they would be fired.

[LiberalArkie]

28. Correct me if I am wrong, but he is a senator. I don't think that him missing votes will have made

any difference as Mr. McConnell has the majority.

[murielm99]

29. He is not doing his job.

That is what is wrong here. I don't think anything excuses that.

[sheshe2]

62. So if his vote and voice in the Senate doesn't matter...

LiberalArkie

28. Correct me if I am wrong, but he is a senator. I don't think that him missing votes will have made

any difference as Mr. McConnell has the majority.

Then why would his voice matter on the campaign trail where he is not the Presidential candidate. You said yourself that he is a Senator.

How will you feel if he sits out the SCOTUS vote? Ah, gee we were going to lose anyway. Why bother? He is paid as a Senator to do his day job. That is work and vote in the Senate.

[JI7]

65. I think he is bored with Senate work

he slept during impeachment trial.

[NurseJackie]

18. No, we need Joe Biden. The primary is over. Joe is our nominee.

Joe's message to Republicans: Trump is going to lose...





Joe/Kamala or Biden/Harris 2020!!
They're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Biden Bandwagon & abandon the revolution!!

[George II]

22. Right. I don't think it's helpful for a prominent Democrat to be out there saying trump might win.

[intheflow]

27. Or, it's reality based.

I think it's exactly what we need. Keeping our heads in the sand, assuming victory was inevitable, was our downfall in 2016. Fucking sound every alarm about what might happen. Citizens should be worried and panicked, that's exactly what these times call for. This message will GOTV for us from a demographic that might otherwise be tempted to not vote, or vote third party.

[NurseJackie]

42. What useful purpose does it serve? It's just another example of how people are oddly willing to...

What useful purpose does it serve? It's just another example of how people are oddly willing to do and say things that create an atmosphere of fear and hopelessness and negativity. Negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.

Or, it's reality based.

LOL! No it's not. This is not 2016. This is nothing at all like 2016.

[intheflow]

52. The fact that you and I disagree on this tactic's worth

proves its effectiveness to left wing of the party. Just as the Lincoln Project warms the hearts of the centrist part of the party. The truth is we need multiple messages that appeal to many different factions to motivate people to vote.

[NurseJackie]

55. GMAFB! That's a stretch. It "proves" nothing of the sort.

[intheflow]

67. Okay, your opinion is the only one that matters.

Got it!

[NurseJackie]

68. No... But between your "opinion" and my "opinion" ...

... mine is the one that's correct. The old "I'm-entitled-to-my-opinion" is a fallacy and it indicates that someone is arguing from a position of weakness.

[intheflow]

69. Which is not at all what I said.

But you just keep on working hard to antagonize and alienate the left wing of the party. I really hope that works out for you.

[NurseJackie]

70. I'm no fool. Here's exactly what you said...

Which is not at all what I said.

I'm no fool. Here's exactly what you said...

67. Okay, your opinion is the only one that matters.
Got it!

Any reasonable person understands what that means and how it should be taken. Specifically, it's a passive way of accusing me of believing that my opinion is the "only one that matters". It's just another way of saying "I'm entitled to my opinion".

Fact of the matter is this, I never said that your "opinion" didn't matter. I said it was wrong. Certainly, you're "entitled" to have an opinion... but the mere fact that you have one doesn't mean that it's right or correct.

But you just keep on working hard to antagonize and alienate the left wing of the party.

Nobody is doing that. Just because mature adults refuse (or neglect) to validate or coddle "the left wing," that's not an act of antagonizing or alienating. What an absurd accusation to make. In reality, if someone feels "alienated" that's on them. I'm a rational person and I live in the real world... and there's just not enough hours in the day for me to run from person to person making sure they feel validated. There are more important things to do.

I really hope that works out for you.

Ah-ha! And there it is... the veiled "threat" and/or "warning" that unless the "left wing of the party" feels validated, then they'll stay home again. I'm not stupid. I know exactly what that means. (How charming.)


Have a nice day. Goodbye.

[JI7]

58. lol

[LanternWaste]

59. And we need to vote for Biden for President more now than ever.

[Demsrule86]

6. Really, how nice.

[Tommymac]

8. Thanks Bernie, for Painting this target on Your back...

and not allowing the Rethugs to demonize Joe and Kamala.

We know damn well they are going to cry 'left wingnut conspiracy' theory', when all the facts show it is a real possibility.

Better that Bernie suffers the slings and arrows from deranged trumpists so Joe & Kamala can stay (publically) above the fray.

[wryter2000]

9. Thank you, Bernie

Doing something to help.

[Lonestarblue]

10. I hate to urge people to vote in person, but it's really important in swing states.

Trump is hanging his win on being able to invalidate as many mail ballots as possible. One tactic that concerns me is declaring that ballots without a postal stamp are invalid. Many people use drop boxes set up by local elections offices. They will not have a postal stamp. How do local officials defend that the ballots were received on time? Does anyone know if they stamp a date on them when they are removed from the drop boxes?

If so many people vote in person that the mail ballots will not change the result, Trump has no case.

[yellowdogintexas]

56. Drop boxes are emptied during the voting process

not just on election day. I believe my daughter told me they are emptied daily where she lives. That work is not done by USPS. Each day's batch can easily be documented.
Or, there may be a 'date received' stamp which the elections team uses.

If a state has the received by Election Day rule there is no dispute. Texas has the 'received by Election Day' rule and we start counting as soon as ballots start coming in. On Election Day, the only votes left to count are the ones which arrive that day. If every state did this it would really help. Early voting in person and mail ins are all counted by the time the polls close and we see them right away; depending on turnout it could be 11 pm before all the precincts get their ballots and the scanner back to the Elections office.

There is a feature in VAN which allows a precinct chair to start a ballot chase to remind folks to mail their ballot as soon as they are sent to the voters, and then we can see when the ballot is returned.

[klook]

60. Thanks. Yes, there is totally a process to document and track incoming absentee ballots.

Even in Georgia, we can verify online that our ballots were received.

[RhodeIslandOne]

11. This is not the nightmare scenario

If he loses, he loses. He will be dragged from the White House on January 20th if need be. If he resists the Secret Service, I will let you figure out what happens then.

The nightmare scenario is that he somehow wins the rigged electoral college due to fraud in Florida and Georgia, and massive "voter error" in Pennsylvania. As well as generous Russian hacking and mail tampering. There will be nothing we can do about that.

[Bayard]

16. Thank you

Been saying this for awhile now. As of Jan. 20, he will be considered a trespasser in the White House, no matter what lawsuits he brings.

[mikelgb]

30. Even after everything you have seen in the last four years you are still so certain?

I wish I could be

[RhodeIslandOne]

31. Once they confirm Amy Creepy Barrett all their jobs will be done.

Either Vlad does his part and throws the election or they can all ride off into the sunset knowing they killed America. Trump and family will most likely board a plane that either lands safely in a country with no extradition treaty or it "disappears over the ocean" now that Russia has no further use for him.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

32. You are talking about the same issue.

One of the nightmare scenarios is trump claiming victory and getting the Pennsylvania legislature to stop the counting while trump is ahead. This might be done under the guise of stopping “the rigging of the election”

It starts with trump delegitimizing the election. Which is what he is doing right now.

Trump isn’t going to refuse to vacate after a certified election result. It would be rather entertaining if he did.

The real problem is it’s quite possible he’ll make a play if he gets some help from a few republican state legislatures to send conflicting electoral votes. Keep in mind there are hundreds of Louis Gomerts and Steve Kings filling up state legislatures around the country - the inmates are running the asylums.

We need to remember the lessons of 2000 Bush/Gore. We were counting on what’s legal and right while repigs were staging phony riots:

2000 was a street fight and we thought we were in a court fight.

[RhodeIslandOne]

35. What if Pennsylvania isn't the tipping point state?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

38. What other battle ground states have Republican legislatures?

What other battleground states might have a “red mirage” on election night and the days/week after?

Michigan, Wisconsin, Florida off the top of my head.

This Law Journal article spells out a couple scenarios. It was written before COVID so mail ballots are much more important.

It reads like a horror novel



They lay out several scenarios. One scenario is a state with a Republican run legislature, like Pennsylvania, could certify a different set of results based on Trumps call to arms. This could send conflicting Elector counts to The Senate President. Mike Pence could conceivably be the arbiter of what Elector count to accept

Preparing for a Disputed Presidential Election: An Exercise in Election Risk Assessment and Management

Loyola University Chicago Law Journal
Volume 51
Issue 2 Winter 2019

https://lawecommons.luc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2719&context=luclj

This Article considers the possibility that a major dispute over the outcome of the 2020 presidential election could arise, even without foreign interference or some other extraordinary event, but rather just from the ordinary process of counting ballots. Building upon previous research on the “blue shift” phenomenon, whereby adjustments in vote tallies during the canvassing of returns tends to advantage Democratic candidates, it is easy to imagine a dispute arising if this kind of “blue shift” were consequential in the presidential race. Using examples from both Pennsylvania and Arizona, two states susceptible to significant “blue shifts” in previous elections, the article shows how the dispute could reach Congress, where it potentially might metastasize into a full-fledged constitutional crisis. The most frightening scenario is where the dispute remains unresolved on January 20, 2021, the date for the inauguration of the new presidential term, and the military is uncertain as to who is entitled to receive the nuclear codes as commander-in-chief. In order to avoid this risk, Congress should amend the relevant statute, 3 U.S.C. § 15.

AXIOS piece on potential “blue shit” in this election.

[Thekaspervote]

12. Thank you Senator Sanders!

[mudstump]

14. Dems will probably put....

Feinstein in charge of the effort to fight this and ole Miss we don't need to change the filibuster or add justices to the Supreme Court will screw us over again. We need street fighters now more than ever.

[LymphocyteLover]

25. Finally-- I was wondering where Bernie is

[The Mouth]

26. Once the Electoral college decides, that's it

anyone in disagreement with the outcome needs to STFU, right or left.

that's the way it works, that's the way it should work.

After the EC votes, they can hunt down and deport any fuckwad saying 'not my president', regardless of party, THOSE are the people who are the problem.

Anything resembling insurrection should be quashed with whatever degree of violence is required; if that means bringing in an A-10 Warthog to deal with Tea Party types who claim Biden stole the election, fine with me.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

33. It's a little more complicated than that.

The Senate counts the electoral votes.

If the Pennsylvania legislature sends conflicting electoral votes. Guess who likely gets to decide which votes to count. Mike Pence .

Here are several scenarios laid out by Loyola Law School Journal in 2019. This was written before COVID so it doesn’t even take into account the massive shift to mail ballots - which could exacerbate the “red mirage”




This reads like a horror novel.

It’s long.

They lay out several scenarios. One scenario is a state with a Republican run legislature, like Pennsylvania, could certify a different set of results based on Trumps call to arms. This could send conflicting Elector counts to The Senate President. Mike Pence could conceivably be the arbiter of what Elector count to accept

Preparing for a Disputed Presidential Election: An Exercise in Election Risk Assessment and Management

Loyola University Chicago Law Journal
Volume 51
Issue 2 Winter 2019

https://lawecommons.luc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2719&context=luclj

This Article considers the possibility that a major dispute over the outcome of the 2020 presidential election could arise, even without foreign interference or some other extraordinary event, but rather just from the ordinary process of counting ballots. Building upon previous research on the “blue shift” phenomenon, whereby adjustments in vote tallies during the canvassing of returns tends to advantage Democratic candidates, it is easy to imagine a dispute arising if this kind of “blue shift” were consequential in the presidential race. Using examples from both Pennsylvania and Arizona, two states susceptible to significant “blue shifts” in previous elections, the article shows how the dispute could reach Congress, where it potentially might metastasize into a full-fledged constitutional crisis. The most frightening scenario is where the dispute remains unresolved on January 20, 2021, the date for the inauguration of the new presidential term, and the military is uncertain as to who is entitled to receive the nuclear codes as commander-in-chief. In order to avoid this risk, Congress should amend the relevant statute, 3 U.S.C. § 15.

AXIOS piece on potential “blue shit” in this election.

[Jakes Progress]

36. This.

If you are not scared, you are not paying attention.

[Jakes Progress]

34. But, but. . .our cool tweets.

We get it even on DU. People saying don't be such a worry wart. Don't worry we got this.

Then we get a dozen posts about clever tweets that are really hurting trump. Yeah. We hurt his feelings and he appoints six more teenage judges for life. Boy we really got him there.

Every day we need to be doing. Donating. And we need to be demanding that our elected Democrats start being smarter. If the republicans are smart enough to figure out how to destroy the democracy, couldn't our Democrats be smart enough to know it is coming?

That is what the "doomsday" projections are about. Figuring out what the enemies of the people might do and thwarting it, rather than waiting until the day after and saying "Who would have imagined?".

Sorry to harsh the buzz of the Pollyana crowd. Reality is a bitch.

[RhodeIslandOne]

43. Oh, so you're good with the scenario he's presenting?

While I do not agree with how he's laying out how it would go down, are you comfortable with the buttons Trump's lawyers are pushing?

Seem to me he's concerned Biden might get screwed. What's your angle?

[RhodeIslandOne]

44. What is he "starting"?

I hope the Democrats, Biden and our lawyers started this long ago, or we are FUCKED, dude.

[calimary]

46. See the "nightmare scenario strategy" in the OP.

Bernie, you helped fuck this up a long time ago. Scrambling something together in the last six weeks won’t save your soul.

[RhodeIslandOne]

49. What United States senator can come out about this....

.....that would make you feel better? Warren? Schumer? Durbin? Will you then listen and instead blame a failed Constitution instead of a random senator?

[JI7]

64. Send he won't call out his own campaign people that continue to attack Biden

[Kahuna]

57. This

[SayItLoud]

41. tRUMP strategy:

Place "will you be loyal to me" Judge on SC.

Have his goon squad FALSE FLAG "fraudulent votes" in swing states AND pure Red states.

Declare election "rigged", SUE and claim "Voter Fraud".

Demand quick Supreme Court ruling on outcome.

Call in all his "be loyal to me chits".

Just sayin....

[andym]

47. That's a devious sceenario

but trump is a known cheater, so it's possible.

[Arazi]

61. Thank you Bernie!

[JI7]

63. He could start by calling out his supporters who are attacking Biden