At Pentagon, Fears Grow That Trump Will Pull Military Into Election Unrest

[Mrs. Overall]

Source: The New York Times

Defense Department officials said top generals could resign if Mr. Trump ordered the active-duty military into the streets to quell election protests.

Senior Pentagon leaders have a lot to worry about — Afghanistan, Russia, Iraq, Syria, Iran, China, Somalia, the Korean Peninsula. But chief among those concerns is whether their commander in chief might order American troops into any chaos around the coming elections.

President Trump gave officials no solace on Wednesday and Thursday when he again refused to commit to a peaceful transfer of power no matter who wins the election, and on Thursday, he doubled down by saying he was not sure the election could be “honest.” His hedging, along with his expressed desire in June to invoke the 1807 Insurrection Act to send active-duty troops onto American streets to quell protests over the killing of George Floyd, has incited deep anxiety among senior military and Defense Department leaders, who insist they will do all they can to keep the armed forces out of the elections.

“I believe deeply in the principle of an apolitical U.S. military,” General Mark A. Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said in written answers to questions from House lawmakers released last month. “In the event of a dispute over some aspect of the elections, by law, U.S. courts and the U.S. Congress are required to resolve any disputes, not the U.S. military. I foresee no role for the U.S. armed forces in this process.”

But that has not stopped an intensifying debate in the military about its role should a disputed election lead to civil unrest.

Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/25/us/politics/trump-military-election.html

[beachbumbob]

1. military will follow the constitution, not trump's commands

[Miguelito Loveless]

5. History shows that the military follows orders

Soldiers who question orders, do not last in the military.

The police will certainly be right in the middle of it, and firmly on Trump's side.

[beachbumbob]

24. lawful orders

[atreides1]

35. Really???

My Lai Massacre!!!

All of those involved in the murders of Vietnamese civilians, believed that they were following lawful orders!!!

It all depends on the courage of the troops...are they brave enough to refuse an unlawful order, or are they so indoctrinated by the military that they lack the moral values to question their superiors...

[ForgoTheConsequence]

39. Cute.

I wish I had your worldview.

[brewens]

2. Why resign? Declare it an illegal order and order all officers to ignore it. n/t

[2naSalit]

3. Exactly.

Last edited Fri Sep 25, 2020, 03:31 PM - Edit history (1)

I question Milley's loyalty to the Constitution and -45.

[BigDemVoter]

31. Same here.

I remember that fat fuck strutting around in his military uniform the day Pussy-Grabber waved the Bible around upside down. . . .

[2naSalit]

32. Exactly...

He knew what was going to happen. You don't assemble a military strike team just to stand around. And furthermore, I think McMasters with his book tour is just an apologist distraction. That being said, I also think that there are quite a few in command positions who know better than to obey wrongful commands. Perhaps the Liberty Square incident helped them figure that part out among themselves.

[onetexan]

16. Bingo!!

[azureblue]

4. protect and defend the Constitution

is the oath all military people take when they sign up. Not an oath to obey the President. While the President is CiC, if he issues an order that contradicts the Constitution then they must abide by their oath and refuse to do what Fascist Trump wants.

[Miguelito Loveless]

10. Oath's are taken once...

Army General Orders must be memorized during basic training:

General Order 1

I will guard everything within the limits of my post and quit my post only when properly relieved.

General Order 2

I will obey my special orders and perform all of my duties in a military manner.

General Order 3

I will report violations of my special orders, emergencies, and anything not covered in my instructions to the commander of the relief.


You will note, no mention of the Constitution.

Again, using history as a guide, Soldiers. Follow. Orders.

In the U.S. military, questioning the sanity of your CIC's orders, or their lawfulness, ends badly for you.

https://www.pilotonline.com/military/article_e1a539ce-9a50-5a04-8125-b47e7cea2679.html

[Baked Potato]

12. That's the general orders for guardmount.

It’s what you follow when placed on guard duty. The Special Orders are an additional order such as checking a particular area more thoroughly.

[Miguelito Loveless]

25. I understand, but they don't make you memorize the oath

But they will make you memorize the general orders, and make you recite them.

I have no doubt that a few soldiers will refuse, but again, history has shown that they are exceptions, not the rule.

As I point out in the article I linked to, simply asking a hypothetical question in a classroom can end your military career. In times of "emergency" it could get you summarily court martialed, and possibly shot.

[Tommymac]

14. This was dealt with by Potsdam Accords after WW2

Many German military soldiers were hung for blindly following illegal orders.

Following one's conscience 'trumps' oaths. No excuse's allowed.

It's a different world now.

[Miguelito Loveless]

26. I wish it were a different world

But the U.S. has flagrantly broken laws since then. Sure a few low level soldiers were charged and punished for Abu Ghraid crimes, but no one of any real importance. We are violating all sorts of international laws right now by locking children in cages, denying adequate medical treatment, rape, medical experimentation, etc, and no one has gone to jail. Hell, there has barely been any investigations into the crimes. Also I remind you that torture is legal, and bragged about, as long as you call it "enhanced interrogation".

I would also point out to Fox News and "Justice" Kavanaugh that newspaper editors and judges were also hung for encoouraging hatred against groups and upholding Hitler's laws. But, I doubt we will bring that back, no matter how much it is deserved.

[TreasonousBastard]

37. The law and history are written by the winners. Had the Axis won, death camp commanders...

would have gotten medals and Stalin would have been hung for his crimes.

Fortunately, we won, but that does not make us morally superior except for that one time.

[Miguelito Loveless]

42. And even then, not so's you'd notice

After all, if you were a Nazi scientist with technology the US wanted, your crimes could be swept under the carpet, so you could work For “the good guys”, with no fear of prosecution.

[TreasonousBastard]

43. There were people arguing that the results of Mengele's experiments had value and shouldn't...

be destroyed. They lost that argument.

[Miguelito Loveless]

44. But, we weren't so squeamish about Japanese

Human experimentation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

[TreasonousBastard]

45. No, we weren't. Several differences, which shouldn't count, but did...

Japanese experiments were mostly on Chinese and other Asians. American racism naturally made these victims less important than Nazi European victims. We had already enacted anti-Chinese laws.

MacArthur was behind a lot of that, and he was an incredibly arrogant and soulless administrator of Japan after the war. He was the guy who led the troops against the Bonus Soldiers iin 1932, and saw nothing wrong with that, either. If Eisenhower ran the Pacific war, perhaps things would have been different.

The Soviets were rushing into China and they made it clear that they would prosecute 731 (after grabbing what data on bio warfare they could). So, we shouldn't destroy the data, just get it first.

Germany had a highly developed rocketry program we could use, so we could ignore the ugly stuff.

[roamer65]

29. If we have to hold Nuremberg-like trials, they will hang.

[Baked Potato]

20. Also, the real Oath is taken upon enlistment or commission.

I took the Oath 7 times, each time I re-enlisted. Each time, I swore to supporting and defending the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, before anything else.

[onetexan]

19. +1 K&R!! Generals must do the right thing & uphold the Constituion, not obey the Con's orders.

[zentrum]

6. So he'll take his marbles...

…..and go home?

Oh, that's effective.

[usaf-vet]

7. Why wouldn't that be an UNLAWFUL order as the US military ISN'T to be used within our borders.....

.....and the UCMJ allows the military to disobey UNLAWFUL orders.

That was one of the many lectures enlistees were given in my boot camp training in 1965.

[TreasonousBastard]

38. But who decides what is unlawful?

[ForgoTheConsequence]

40. Bill Barr, John Yoo...

After the damage is done they'll get a strongly worded letter.

[George II]

8. He can't. The US military cannot be used against the American people. Only the National Guard...

...can be used domestically, and I believe they have to be called up by the Governor, not the president.

Let him put the National Guard in states like Florida, Georgia, etc. Won't happen in New York, Illinois, California, etc.

[CrispyQ]

9. Will they recognize the Con as the domestic enemy he is or will they treat him like the CIC?

Is that what it's going to get down to? I guess I have more confidence in our military commanders than I do our police forces, though. This is going to be the most chaotic, ugly election in US history.

[ffr]

11. "Fears" is being naive about it. He will tell the military to keep him installed.

Count on it.

[marie999]

17. If Biden wins and trump refuses to step down it doesn't matter.

Since by law he is no longer president the military will not take orders from him.

[Bayard]

23. I believe trump would still be president

Until Jan. 20th. He does get to finish out his term. My understanding is that if there is still chaos on that date, Nancy Pelosi is in charge, and he would still be evicted.

He could still do a lot of damage in those few months. I do think though that rethugs are going to be like rats deserting a sinking ship. He won't have much of anybody standing up for a poor loser/sour grapes.

[Coleman]

13. The Joint Chiefs

Should order their respective service members located within CONUS on 1 November report to their units where they will stay until 7 November. Even if you live off post/base, you will still report and stay at your unit for the duration. Failure to report or leaving the post/base will resort in charges of AWOL. If found participating in any activity then the charge will be desertion. If you are armed then sedition.

[Hekate]

15. Might be time for t Pentagon to order a review of t meaning of their oath for all troops & officers

A little required education in these troubled times might be a good idea

[left-of-center2012]

18. "top generals could resign"

I think that would be a mistake.
Trump would just find a lower level officer who will do what he wants.

[LiberalLovinLug]

34. I was going to say this too

Why do they always resign?
I suppose because they get more retirement money, than if they remained and refused and were summarily fired for subversion. I know it would be a sacrifice, but dammit, I wish they'd choose that route. It would make a way bigger statement.

Because you are right, just like every other position, from the AG on down. Trump just promotes a True Believer to do even worse.

[Thekaspervote]

21. Miley already issued a full public statement that the military has no part to play in the election.

Intensifying debate? Oh the spin

[bucolic_frolic]

22. Compare to Bonus Army protests 1932

That's where we're headed? He'll find someone to lead the charge, even if it's the AG?

[Mustellus]

27. cross posted from Kos:

If the military declares that invoking the insurrection act is a partisan coup, it would be an illegal order. The brass already has Trump’s measure, the polling of the troops shows Trump is behind. There are already efforts to circumvent this, see the Lincoln Project ads in military newspapers

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/517551-lincoln-project-places-anti-trump-ads-in-military-newspapers


(edited to get the link )

[LiberalFighter]

28. The word needs to go out to the troops. Stay out of politics. Do not follow illegal orders.

Any illegal orders followed will be result in termination of duty.

[roamer65]

30. ...and also punishment for their crimes.

[Boogiemack]

33. They do not have to obey and UNLAWFUL order. nt

[truthisfreedom]

36. How many men does Eric Prince have?

[jeffreyi]

41. Kind of surgical

The timing...

[ck4829]

46. Kick

[honest.abe]

47. I think the military has zero respect for Trump.

Probably cant wait until Jan 2021.