Sanders and Warren Accuse N.Y. Democrats of False Advertising

[George II]

Source: NY Times

ALBANY, N.Y. — Senators Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren entered an unexpected clash on Tuesday with New York Democratic leaders over the fate of a progressive third party.

The dispute stems from a political flier paid for by the state party featuring Joseph R. Biden Jr., his running mate, Senator Kamala Harris, and Senators Warren and Sanders, all smiling and pleading with New Yorkers to vote “Democratic — all the way!”

But Ms. Warren and Mr. Sanders said they were not consulted about the flier, and had they been, they would not have consented to the ad, which pushes voters to cast ballots on the Democratic Party line.

Both senators support the Biden-Harris ticket, but want ballots cast for the candidates on the Working Families Party line, which has backed them in the past.



Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/27/nyregion/wfp-bernie-sanders-warren.html

---

Posted without comment.

[TwilightZone]

1. Er, what?

While I guess they could have left Sanders and Warren off (?), complaining that the state party put out a flier asking people to vote for Democrats is not high on my list of things that we should be complaining about at the moment. That's kind of their job.

[Me.]

2. I Understand Why BS Would Want This

but am confused why Warren would not supports Dems wholeheartedly, especially now and the crisis we have in this country. Wanting DEms to waste their votes doesn't make sense to me and causes me to wonder about her.

[TwilightZone]

3. The only thing I can think of is that WFP members weren't running against Dems.

Which is rather unlikely, I would think. If it's between a Dem and someone from the WFP, this isn't the election to be making statement votes.

[sir pball]

19. WFP candidates for national positions are the Dem candidates.

They do run their own candidates in smaller races, but they run the Dem candidates for Pres/VP, Rep and Senate. I vote WFP there to give them the numbers, it's still a vote for Obama/Clinton/Biden.

[thesquanderer]

21. Often you have a choice of voting for the SAME candidate on multiple party lines,

and Working Family is often the same candidate as thef Dem candidate. If you vote for them on the WFP line, it still helps get them elected, BUT you are sending a message that you are specifically supporting them from their left flank.

[melman]

23. Yes

AOC had a tweet explaining all this.


I posted it here and you can guess what happened.

[quakerboy]

37. In my district the local Democratic party is supporting a WFP candidate over the democrat

Strange things happen. Sometimes a republican switches party and manages to sneak into a minor local party primary with 20 options and gets through. Sometimes a wfp candidate is better than any of the Dems who decided to join the primary.

Things happen. Politics gets wierd.

[DeeDeeNY]

38. I always vote WFP and have never seen a case where they weren't also on Democratic line

[Renew Deal]

41. AOC is also advocating voting on WF line.

I think it's all BS that confuses voters.

[JonLP24]

70. Votes for Biden-Harris on either line counts exactly the same

[comradebillyboy]

4. Neither Sanders nor Warren are New Yorkers

Sanders isn't even a Democrat. Why are they involving themselves in a New York state issue?

[vsrazdem]

10. Because they involved them in it without asking I would guess.

[brush]

5. Are they effin' kidding me? Now, six days before the election?

This is such a no-brainer of a non-issue.

A flyer asking for voters to vote a straight Dem ticket should not be an issue now.

YOU LET THIS GO.

This is disappointing.

[George II]

20. Exactly. The flyers are printed and probably already mailed out. Complaining won't change a thing...

...except help to divide Democrats at this critical time in our country's history.

The fact is Biden/Harris ARE on the New York State ballot on the Democratic Line. Neither of those two are on the New York State ballot. This would have been best ignored seven days before the election or addressed privately.

[groundloop]

6. I did a quick check and all the "Working Families" candidates I looked up are Democrats

Granted, I only looked at a handful of their candidates, but each one I looked at is a Democrat. SO, it sounds like this little squabble is pretty minor (but of course the media wants to make it seem much bigger).

[Fiendish Thingy]

11. Yeah, some folks sit around all day with a giant spoon just waiting to stir up sh*t. Nt

[PunkinPi]

7. This is unhelpful...

I think the last line of the article sums it up.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

8. Fuck that.

The last thing we need right now is Democrats eating each other. Bernie isn't actually a Democrat, but Warren?

[BComplex]

43. That's not what is happening.

It's all good.

[JonLP24]

69. The Working Families Party endorsed Warren in the primaries

When she dropped out they endorsed Sanders.

[Maxheader]

9. Kids Kids...We need a unified image for americu now...

Quit your damn bickering...

[Tom Rinaldo]

12. I live in NY. The Working Families Party almost always nominates Democrats

This is not a traditional third party. In New York State both Democrats and Republicans prefer to pick up multiple party endorsements for their races. The Conservative Party in NY almost always runs a Republican on its line. It enables major party candidates to pick up a few extra votes from voters who for whatever reason refuse to identify with the Democratic or Republican parties. The Working Families Party (like the Conservative Party on the other side) tries to negotiate a couple of campaign promises in return for their endorsements, but once they make one they are all in supporting the Democrat or Republican respectively. I know for a fact that the Working Families Party deploys organizers on behalf of the candidates it endorses.

Both Warren and Sanders have many supporters inside the Working Families Party, and it was a cheap shot by State Democrats to include them, without their approval, in an ad urging everyone to vote straight "Row A", the Democratic line. This was not some mindless oversight on the part of the State Democratic Party, everyone in the NY State Democratic Party understands full well the ongoing working relationship Democrats have with the Working Families Party. The NY State Democratic Party could easily have avoided this dust up simply by leaving Sanders and Warren off that ad without their prior consent. You notice that they didn't include other former Presidential candidates in that ad, not Mayor Pete, not Amy Klobuchar, not Michael Bloomberg nor Senators from other states bordering New York. NY Dems tried to pull a fast one here, if they wanted Warren and Sanders to urge voting for specific Democratic candidates, that could easily have been arranged.

[scarletwoman]

14. Thank you for bringing actual information to this thread!

[melman]

16. +1

[stopdiggin]

30. thanks for that post. great to have the issue laid out.

It would seem like a mistake to not at least consult the people that are being featured on your flier. No? Could have been handled better. (maybe on both sides?)

[lefthandedskyhook]

34. Precisely correct Tom

I also live in New York. It seems that most posters in this thread do not understand the issue. Working Families constitutes the more progressive wing of NY democrats so Sanders and Warren naturally fit better there. Unfortunately Working Families is facing harmful pressure in this state thanks in part to efforts like this one to effectively suffocate them. From the article:

“Under state law, candidates in New York can collect votes on several different party lines, a system known as fusion voting. But under a new law adopted this year, political parties in New York have to earn 130,000 votes — or 2 percent of the total vote — every two years in order to automatically retain their ballot lines. Parties that do not reach that threshold would have to petition for their candidates to appear.“

Most New York voters do not understand this so Working Families may lose the valuable ballot line, which would damage progressive causes here.

[elleng]

40. Thanks, Tom.

[Bev54]

13. FFS the country is burning and you are going to worry about a picture???

You two need to get your priorities straight

[melman]

15. lol @ "posted without comment" as if this is some big scandal

OP should read post # 12 and learn something about NY politics.

[George II]

17. lol @ "learn something about NY politics". Not surprising, but keep taking your shots at me.

As we say in New York, "what I forgot about NY politics _________". You can fill in the blank yourself.

[melman]

18. Well you either don't know what this is about

or you do and you are deliberately distorting it to make it looks sinister.


Which is it?


ps. remember when I had to school you on where the 14th district is?

[George II]

22. Hah. Thanks but wrong. And no, I don't remember when you had to "school" me on where the 14th is.

IOW, you didn't.

Again, as we say in New York, "what I forgot about the 14th District _________".

[melman]

24. "what I forgot about the 14th District "

Was plenty. Which is why I had to explain to you where it is.



Hey, how about this. Remember when Joe Crowley was on the WFP line and he wouldn't remove himself from the ballot and you thought it was terrific because it might hurt AOC? lol memories lol

[George II]

26. He was in no position to remove himself from the ballot, and he pointed out why:

“Lots [of] questions about WFP line. Was honored to have their support. I’m not running. For [the] record you can only be removed from the ballot if 1) you move out of NY; 2) die; 3) be convicted of a crime; 4) accept a nomination for another office (in a place I don’t live),” Crowley said in a statement posted to Twitter. “I don’t plan on moving out of New York, have a clean record, hope God’s will is that I don’t die, and won’t commit what I honestly believe to be election fraud.”

He was born in Queens, New York and lived in Queens his entire life of 56 years at the time.
He didn't choose to die.
He didn't choose to commit a crime.
He wasn't interested in running for another office

Once again, as we say in New York, "what I forgot about NY politics _________"

[melman]

27. Here it is

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100210888942#post266

[George II]

28. Wow, that's quite a catalog of my posts you have there, but there was no such schooling...

On the other hand, perhaps you should have called her Bronx office and explained to her that she wasn't from the South Bronx as she stated on her campaign website. As you said, "memories".

[Proud Liberal Dem]

25. Huh

I'm........confused

[The Magistrate]

29. Disappointed In Senator Warren, Sir

About what I expect from the other fella.

I might feel differently if they were running for office in New York on both lines, but they are from out of state, nowhere on the ballot, and pledged to support the Democratic ticket.

[My Pet Orangutan]

72. The questions, was she misrepresnted,

and in this case, it's pretty clear she was. Both Sanders, Warren, and indeed Senators Schumer, and Gillibrand advocated a vote in the Working Families Party's line (Row D). The NY Dems false claimed Warren was advocating Row A - All Dems. Not true - and she spoke out.

[beastie boy]

31. I used to vote Working Families Party down the line for years. Not this year.

This, of course, is to drive home a point: this election cycle, certain actions taken by WFP have been dangerously divisive in my opinion. But I agree with Sanders and Warren's criticism this time: WFP offers an alternative for people on the left to vote for Biden and not necessarily for the Democratic Party, and this choice shouldn't be minimized or co-opted by the Democratic leadership.

[George II]

33. Precisely. On some issues they have been divisive, and not worthy of a vote by a Democratic voter...

Also, there are ramifications for voting on the WFP line rather than the Democratic Party line. Many people don't realize that.

For one, and in a closer election in NYS this could be a factor, the party that gets the most votes in the state-wide election gets Line A until at least the next state-wide election. Subtle, but a factor for some voters (especially lazy voters)

Next year is a redistricting year, and right or wrong district lines are drawn by the State Legislature based in part on Democratic or republican support in a geographic area. It would be best that this isn't the case but it is. So some "democratic" votes dribbled off to minor parties could change the way the new districts are drawn.

There are other ramifications too, but those two come to mind first.

I'm sure some will be along soon to critique what I just said.

[beastie boy]

36. Sanders and Warren seem to agree with your analysis 100%

What you described is the most likely reason(s) for them to make such a big deal of the seemingly insignificant difference between voting for Biden on the D line and voting for Biden on the WFP line. Incidentally, the reasons I am not voting WFP this year follow the same rationale: to diminish the WFP prominence in my district and on the future ballots.

[Karma13612]

39. I remember several years ago

When the WFP were all enthusiastic about Teachout/Wu for the Gov’s race.
Then they turned the tables and endorsed Cuomo. I was really peeved about that.

But, I have to say it’s been interesting to see Cuomo become more voter-friendly since that challenge and then the one following from the actress from Sex in the City.

I think he started to see he was not popular and that he could get voted out if he didn’t start to be more in line with the Democratic voters.

It was interesting to read about the Party Line Vote and viability of 3rd party candidates based on the line they select.
I always vote via the Democratic line, but pay attention to the choices in case I prefer a different candidate that is not on the Democratic line. This year, it was straight D.

[George II]

46. Surprisingly I read earlier today that Schumer was urging people to vote for Biden on the WFP line..

I suspect that's to court their support in the future and gain more "progressive" support should he be primaried.

[beastie boy]

55. It appears that Schumer is playing a gambit in the NY political power game.

I just came across an interesting article: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/15/nyregion/working-families-party-biden.html

Not only is WFP, Schumer's longtime ally, in danger of losing its automatic line on the NY ballot, but Schumer is trying to boost WFM to raise their prominence vs the emerging challengers from the left, which, in turn, would work to his advantage. So Shumer's plan probably has less to do with embracing the left than building a firewall against the left. He is a sly mofo!

[George II]

58. Yes, he's playing both sides of the coin. The difference between Schumer and Warren/Sanders....

...is that Schumer is a New Yorker and will be facing the electorate in two years. The other two are from out of state.

[NurseJackie]

32. My opinion of them both has dropped lower than before.

I've never been a fan of these so-called "progressive third party" movements. It's just a way to divide and weaken the Democratic party.

Here's the thing... that type of rhetoric and behavior serves NO good purpose. In fact, it hurts the party. It amplifies distrust and drives wedges. People begin to question motives. Campaigning against and railing AGAINST the Democratic party only serves to create an atmosphere of negativity: Negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.

All I'm trying to say is this: I thought we were supposed to be "friends". I'd have thought that right now, this close to the election --- ESPECIALLY NOW --- this kind of petty shit could be set aside just for a week. Just for one lousy week.

People need to check their priorities. All this hand-wringing and overwrought drama is nothing but anti-Democratic party absurdity. We need to get Joe in the White House. Can't we just do that?

[Mc Mike]

35. That's the NY Dem machine's fault.

[marble falls]

42. I understand their concern. But until our election system is reformed to accomodate third parties ..

like is done in other countries, third parties only spoil.

[NurseJackie]

45. This.

Truth.

[femmedem]

53. WFP is not usually a spoiler. WFP members are workhorses for progressive Democrats.

They tend to be union members who do a ton of doorknocking for progressive Democrats here in CT, and are another source of donations for the (almost always D) candidates they support. And when they get involved in a race and support a Democrat, they help minimize the damage the Green party can do.

[marble falls]

56. I am not knocking it. Maybe if we had a viable third party the Democratic Party might be ...

tacking more to the left. Maybe with more than two parties we make our system operate on a more parliamentary system? How about a voting option for none of the above?

Right now we have to get Trump and as many Republicans out of office. It has to be a Democratic sweep. Then we fix the system. Redistricting is really, really important. We need to take over state legislatures for this next redistricting.

I don't know about you, but this is the most important election I've ever voted in and it has lot more than just the White House in the balance.

I'm more left than Joe Biden, but that's alright - I trust him to do the right thing. I'm voting FOR Joe and voting against the Orange Shitgibbon secondly.

[JI7]

59. I done understand the concern at all

[BComplex]

44. This is more like the democratic party version of the republican's "tea party".

They're definitely democrats, but they're saying we're looking in a more progressive direction.

[NurseJackie]

48. It dilutes our party and can harm us, weaken us, in redistricting.

Third party efforts like this serve no good purpose and it only ends up weakening the Democratic party... and anything that harms or weakens the Democratic party only benefits the Republican party. I'm sick of it.

[BComplex]

49. I'm sorry you're upset about it. I didn't start it or have anything to do with it.

But there are a lot of people who are far more liberal than others. The democratic party is a big tent, and we want everyone to vote when we need to mobilize. Nobody is taking any votes away from the democratic party from this group.

There are many many factions in the democratic party. It will probably always be that way. It does not weaken the party; it strengthens it and broadens it. It gives liberals a place to hang their hat, rather than stay home....like some of them did in 2016.

[NurseJackie]

51. LOL I'm not blaming you. I'm just telling you what the real world consequences are.

I didn't start it or have anything to do with it.

I'm not blaming you. I'm just telling you what the real world consequences are.

The democratic party is a big tent,

It doesn't matter how bit our party tent is if we have factions that refuse to join-in and come inside the tent... rather than trying to weaken and dilute and divide the party with this crap. What they're doing is standing out in some field and demanding that we pull up stakes and MOVE the tent all the way to where they are. It ain't gonna happen.

Nobody is taking any votes away from the democratic party from this group.

Redistricting (for better or worse, mostly worse) can be affected in ways that negatively impact the Democratic party... and in ways which strengthen the GOP if Democratic votes are shown as anything other than Democratic.

This is nothing more than a way to weaken and divide.

It does not weaken the party; it strengthens it and broadens it.

Yes it weakens the party if they don't support the party.

It gives liberals a place to hang their hat, rather than stay home....like some of them did in 2016.

No, third parties will ALWAYS be spoilers and will ALWAYS weaken the Democratic party. We have a de facto two-party system where only ONE candidate from either the Democratic or Republican party will win in a national election.

[KPN]

47. Why did the NY Democratic Party do that?

It shouldn’t have happened. Any flak is a result of their own misguided action. What the hell were they thinking?

[George II]

50. Nowhere on that flyer did it say anything about Warren or Sanders, and neither mentioned....

....the WFP in their endorsements of Joe Biden. And the flyer makes no mention of WFP either.

How is what they did "misguided"?

[Lulu KC]

52. Argh.....n/t

[JI7]

57. This seems like a strange thing to be upset about

[Steelrolled]

60. This is about protecting the brand

Politics is a lot about marketing, and in that world you want to maintain control (to the extent you can) over how your likeness and image are used.

[scipan]

61. Sounds like this is about the WFP party losing

Their automatic line in elections. And the NY Dem party is in favor of that, so much so that they used Elizabeth Warren and Bernie's names without their consent.

I hope the NY Dem party doesn't get away with it. Glad this is getting out there.

[George II]

62. They didn't use their names in their flyer, and all they said in the 30-second ad was...

.."endorsed by Bernie Sanders" and "endorsed by Elizabeth Warren" - both of which are 100% correct.

By the way, you and I just used their names without their permission, too.

[melman]

63. Sens. Chuck Schumer and Kirsten Gillibrand are joining the call to cast votes on the WFP line

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/new-york-elections-government/ny-working-families-party-schumer-gillibrand-voting-20201026-oz3rspbg2bhyzk4ps7zdhvhayi-story.html

[George II]

64. Sens. Chuck Schumer and Kirsten Gillibrand are from New York. Sanders and Warren?

[melman]

65. lol

lol

[George II]

66. Quelle surprise

[melman]

67. Well it's irrelevant

That's the first lol. Second one is because Bernie is a Brooklyn native, and I can think of a certain other (alleged) NY native that thinks that makes them an expert on all things New York political and otherwise now and forever. lol

[George II]

68. But that "certain other (alleged) NY native" isn't telling New Yorkers how they should vote...

Why aren't Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren advising voters in their own states of Vermont and Massachusetts to vote for Biden on the Working Families Party line?

As for me, although no longer living in New York, I support the New York Democratic Party.

[R B Garr]

71. Holy crap. The ridiculous things they come up with to

trifle over is so incredibly tiresome. Vote for Democrats! That’s it.