Flournoy for Defense Chief Faces Progressive Pushback

[brooklynite]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Omaha Steve (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: Political Wire

“President-elect Joe Biden named a slate of experienced hands for his national security team on Monday—but stopped short of selecting a defense secretary,” Foreign Policy reports.

“Now, backers of Michèle Flournoy, his likely pick for defense secretary, are trying to head off a last-minute push by some left-leaning Democrats trying to derail her selection, with many progressives seeing her nomination as a continuation of what critics refer to as America’s ‘forever wars.'”

Read more: https://politicalwire.com/2020/11/23/flournoy-for-defense-chief-faces-progressive-pushback/

[greenjar_01]

1. What's your position on this pick?

[brooklynite]

3. Defense isn't my area of expertise

[greenjar_01]

4. ROFL

Stir on, then.

[brooklynite]

6. And by "stir", you mean "report political news"?

I post topical articles, not just feel good stuff that reinforces existing opinions.

[PatSeg]

26. He just posted a political article

If anyone is stirring the pot, I suppose it might be certain progressives objecting to the appointment. Meanwhile, some people might want to know about it.

[DownriverDem]

37. Progressive label needs

to go. We are all Dems. Some of us lean more left than others. The progressive label is too divisive. Join us. We need you, but we don't need folks not understanding what we are about.

[PatSeg]

42. Oh yes, I agree

We've been down this road already with the demonization and fear mongering of the word "liberal". Now it is "progressive". Most Democrats are progressive in varying degrees. We don't need to contribute to the labeling and fracturing of the party. It is bad enough that it comes from republicans and the media, it shouldn't be tolerated within our own party. It is only giving republicans more ammo to use against us.

[Laelth]

2. I back Flournoy.

I hear my fellow progressives on this issue, but I can’t see a reasonable path that would allow the United States to safely abandon its position as the world’s only superpower. Not yet, anyway.

-Laelth

[LiberalArkie]

23. I think the US can be world's only superpower and not army and marines in every place in the world.

Why no bring some of that money home like we have been wanting to do for years.

At least until the DOD can complete a successful audit of its money.

[ancianita]

24. +1

[still_one]

28. +++

[iluvtennis]

39. + agree with you Laeith. We need someone in the role who has expertise in defense world. nt

[Andy Canuck]

55. Not the only superpower

Sad to say, but the US is not the only superpower in playground anymore. Russia re-arisen and China are superpowers too.

[Laelth]

58. Not by a long shot. No.

Russia and China, combined, are UTTERLY PATHETIC compared to the United States, both economically and, especially, militarily. The world has never seen anything quite as powerful as the United States as we exist in this period of time.

-Laelth

[GoneOffShore]

64. Well said. Too many people don't understand the perfect being the enemy of the good.

I'm tired of Democrats shooting each other in the back in the pursuit of purple unicorns who poop rainbows.

[Laelth]

65. The entire world relies upon us maintaining the Pax Americana.

Yes, it’s price ($770 billion/year) is high. Yes, we could have medicare for all and a sustainable UBI if we diverted those funds elsewhere. I HEAR my progressive allies when they say that, but it’s vastly more important to maintain the Pax Americana, no matter what the cost. Flournoy understands this, and I enthusiastically support her nomination.

-Laelth

[Zorro]

5. A female DoD Secretary seems quite a progressive choice to me

[TheRickles]

8. Here's a somewhat extreme, but telling, response to that point of view.

Sorry, I couldn't figure out how to import just the photo, so here's the full article. Trigger alert - it's by Glenn Greenwald, but the photo half way down is worth 1000 words:

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/imperialism-pumps-greenwald-johnstone-go-media-gushes-over-presumed-biden-pick-secdef

[Zorro]

9. You're right. The article is a very extreme response.

It's both silly and stupid to tag someone with competent DoD experience as a "corporatist warmonger".

I prefer someone who knows the department they may be leading to someone completely clueless or antagonistic toward the primary mission; we've suffered enough from such malevolence and incompetence in the Trump administration (Ben Carson, Rick Perry, you take your pick...).

[TheRickles]

14. That's why I was hoping to just import the image of the two planes.

The Greenwald article was a digression from the point I was trying to make - the meme of a fighter plane embellished with BLM and #MeToo slogans is quite telling, and worth pondering, IMO. We have to ensure that progressive policies are being pursued by Biden, not just a continuation of corporate-friendly approaches but now spearheaded by previously under-represented demographics (women, people of color, etc.). I agree that Biden's picks so far are competent, although more centrist than I'd prefer, but I'm concerned that more value may be given to their identity than to their politics.

[iluvtennis]

36. Here is the image you wanted

(Bombers, not fighter planes though)

[TheRickles]

38. Thank you!

And BTW, how did you do that?

[iluvtennis]

40. Here is a website where you can upload a jpegand get a direct link to paste into your DU post.

https://postimages.org

[TheRickles]

43. Thank you.

I love tennis too, BTW.

[iluvtennis]

44. LOL 👍 😁 nt

[IsItJustMe]

47. Thanks!!!!

I have been trying to figure out how to do that for some time. I went to a couple of sites, but they seemed like they were more trouble than what they were worth.

[iluvtennis]

48. You're welcome. And you don't need to open an account either, just upload your image,

choose the size you want (640 x 480) for message boards, and copy the 'Direct Link' into your DU post. And voila, it's in our DU post.

I'm sure there are other ways, but this one works well for me.

Enjoy.

[IsItJustMe]

52. Yeah. I saw that.

One site I went to wanted to charge me a monthly fee. Another site had a free trial. Another site wanted me to create an account.

At that point I just said the hell with it. But I really wanted to post pictures in my posts.

This is awesome.

[McKim]

57. Excellent Image

Thanks for the excellent image. I am fed up with the forever wars and how we always have to have "enemies" and "adversaries". Most of all I am angry when I see all that money wasted at the pentagon when our people lack food, health care, housing, cultural infrastructure, better education and the list is endless. I am done with the warmongers though I am sometimes forced to vote for them just to have some semblance of civilization here in the U.S.

[George II]

46. I went past that thinking it was an ad (that page had lots of ads and a video), but I see someone...

...else has posted it.

The Intercept has gotten as bad as Huffington Post with respect to ads, pop ups, videos, etc. They bog down my computer, freezing sometimes.

[George II]

22. Is this the photograph?

[TheRickles]

34. No, that's not "the image of the two planes" that I referred to.

Unless I'm missing a play on words somewhere.

[IronLionZion]

10. A female would be great, but maybe one who is less of a war hawk

She encouraged Obama to intervene in Libya and double the troop presence in Afghanistan. She wants a more aggressive position against China in the South China Sea as well as more cyberwarfare and drone strikes.

[ananda]

21. Antony Blinken is also seen as a hawk.

I like Biden; and his choices are definitely competent
and experienced.

I just hope we don't end up too hawkish.

I guess I'll take a wait and see attitude for now.

[IronLionZion]

29. They're both well qualified for the job

not sure I agree with their positions. Blinken supported Bush's Iraq War.

[ananda]

54. I wonder if it's possible that ..

Biden chose more moderate leaders to get past
the Republican Senate confirmation process.

I'm hopeful that we will be fine; and at least
these people have ideals and credentials!

[IsItJustMe]

50. I like Ike.

Ike was the only good Republican president in my life time. He wasn't a politician in the traditional sense, and I believe he cared deeply about our country. He knew war first hand, and he wisely warned us of the Industrialized Military Complex. I trust Biden's judgement, and yet that does not mean I can't be concerned at the same time. We shall see.

[Happy Hoosier]

7. While I certainly don't support "forever wars" ...

I always adamantly oppose a "pull chocks and leave our allies high and dry" approach.

I want a DoD chief who can strike a balance on this issue. Many progressives support a more isolationist view than I think is unwise.

[4Q2u2]

11. It is not just the "Forever Wars"

She seems like a status quo tick in the Defense skin.
Will she start to dismantle the complete and utter bloat?
Trillions need to be cut. Without even touching AFG and the Middle East.

https://www.vicetv.com/en_us/video/cog-clusterf/5fa08934330cf9181e5f4439

[edhopper]

13. The SoD doesn't cut the budget

that is up to Congress.

He/She needs to be a good manager.

[4Q2u2]

15. Great Imput

In Plans, Programs, and Systems.
The National Defense Strategy is also prepared by SOD's office.
If She nor the White House will not eliminate items, Congress never will.

[COL Mustard]

17. I've Been Involved With DoD Budgeting for 20 Years

OSD and the Services most definitely prepare a President's Budget request each and every year. It reflects the Services' and the SECDEF's (and thus the Administration's) priorities, and internal stakeholders all along the way get a voice in preparing it. We don't all get our way (not enough dollars to buy everyone's pet rocks), and Congress does in fact get the final say, but if the Administration wants to cut 10% across the board (or add 10% across the board, or beef up programs), that's what we do. While Congress has the final say in what is passed each year, they generally don't want to break a program (or its related jobs in their states/districts), but sometimes priorities do get adjusted.

[DeminPennswoods]

51. Wasn't a budget officer nor worked in the budget office,

but I prepared plenty of budgets for my programs that asked for the moon. DoD never focuses on real needs like operations, repairs and maintenance. Usually they just focus on new toys like planes, boats and vehicles with little thought on what happens to them when something fails.

On Day 1, every teet-sucking contractor from CACI, Booz-Hamilton and the rest of them should be fired and not replaced. Never have so many done so little for the exorbinant cost to DoD.

[George II]

12. Do they have a preferred nominee that might be better? Maybe they should run for President...

....get elected, then THEY can choose their cabinet.

[PatSeg]

30. Ha, ha, ha!!!

Yeah!

I guess we shouldn't be surprised. We'll see a lot more of this in the coming months. I don't recall it being any different with Obama either. There will always be people who will disagree with the president's decisions and he cannot possibly please everyone all the time.

I don't expect to agree with Biden all the time, but I trust him to have the judgment and competence to make good decisions and to make adjustments when and if he doesn't. As a citizen, I don't want to micromanage everything a president does on a daily basis. Sometimes, it is nice to let him do his job and be able to sleep at night.

[mcar]

62. Oh, come on now, George

you know the "progressive" keyboard warriors are far more experienced and knowledgeable that PE Biden could ever be.

[beastie boy]

16. Call me paranoid, but when I see phrases like "many progressives", or "many people",

I get suspicious. How many progressives? Who are they? What is the nature of their push? WTF does "progressives" mean in this context anyway?

I often find myself increasingly pissed at reporters who appear to sensationalize their stories using the "progressive vs mainstream" narrative. More often than not, their reporting on the "progressive" opposition turns out to be trivial and inconsequential.

[PatSeg]

31. Good point

And there will always be Democrats who disagree with a Democratic president at one time or another. That would be normal, quite unlike republicans who never challenge their leaders.

[George II]

32. Not a single name was mentioned in the two-paragraph article.

[LymphocyteLover]

35. Agree. It's another version of the "Dems in disarray" trope that they love

[DownriverDem]

41. Totally agree

I hate the label progressive. It does nothing but divide us. We are the Democratic Party. I am a proud member. Some of us lean more left than others. The label needs to be dropped.

[Cha]

61. All Good Questions.. I feel the same.

It's way Beyond Getting OLD.

[elleng]

18. Too much experience for some, I guess.

[bdamomma]

53. I'd rather

have experience rather than incompetent and God knows we have seen incompetence and inexperience for the last 4 years.
Grownups in charge again.

[Submariner]

19. Until we don't have a belligerent Russia and China, this is how it has to be

Meaning remaining on guard, watching our six, and our NATO allies.

We have Russian and Chinese missile boats making like ghosts in our flanking oceans. Until Putin is gone and democracy develops, if at all, and president for life Xi changes Commie China to something acceptable to civilized society, as in no censorship, we be ready, or we could be dead.

[ancianita]

25. I agree. They should see America trend now toward hawkish. Appearances affect their behavior.

[jalan48]

20. Without forever wars the public might start to question the need for big defense budgets.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

27. Isn't there a qualified, combat seasoned General out there

somewhere, who is a solid Democrat, and who has never worked in the Defense Industry?

Someone who really understands what war is, and hates it, and understands how the military works, instead of someone who has done nothing but sit behind a desk, is a veteran of the defense industry, and who really understands what war profits are, and how to make them?

[dhill926]

33. Wesley Clark?

but perhaps his time has come and gone...who knows. For now, I'm putting a lot of trust in Biden's choices...

[William769]

45. I will probably get smacked for this but, what the hell

I would rather have "of what critics refer to as America’s ‘forever wars.'”", than America’s ‘forever wars on democracy.'”

I trust President elect Biden to pick who he needs to run his Administration. A grown-up running the Country will be a breath of fresh air.

[DeminPennswoods]

49. FTR

I am available. Plenty of experience where the rubber hits the road in DoD, an unerring BS detector and not afraid to speak truth to power.

[Harker]

56. Where do you get your BS detector calibrated?

Mine still squawks for chickenshit and batshit.

Maybe that's not a bad thing, though.

[PatrickforO]

59. That media loves to pound wedges. A couple of observations:

First, whomever he picks will carry out the strategies of the Biden administration.

Second, as much as I hate the forever wars, if we are to withdraw we must not do so precipitously like Trumpy is trying to do - we have to be mindful of the stability of the region, and of our allies.

One of the foreign policy things that caused me to use the "T" word with Trump is his rank betrayal of the Kurds. We TOLD those people that if they helped us fight insurgents, we would keep the Turks from killing them all, and then Trump just blew them off.

This is a prime example of what we CANNOT do if we are going to regain our prestige in world affairs, and regain the confidence of allies. A nice centrist in Defense would be good, with the caveat that we need to build the continuity in our foreign policy around regional stability, human rights, and upholding our interests AND those of our allies.

Lastly, sometimes these wedges are pounded in between us, not because of ideals, but because controversy adds clicks to these media sites and clicks translate into higher profits from advertising. For this reason, whenever something like this comes up, I urge everyone to first ask, "Cui bono?"

[DeminPennswoods]

63. DoD needs a leader who can say "no"

This might be surprising, but the best SecDef when I worked for DoD was Dick Cheney because he knew how gov't worked, wasn't really a creature of the MIC and knew how to just say no.

[Mr.Bill]

60. I'm just gonna chill and let

Joe pick his team.

[Omaha Steve]

66. After a review by forum hosts....LOCKING

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