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IsItJustMe

(7,012 posts)
Fri Nov 27, 2020, 10:15 PM Nov 2020

Scotland leader to tell party she's 'never been more certain' of independence

Source: AFP

Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon is to tell the Scottish National Party she's "never been more certain" of achieving independence as she addresses activists on Saturday.

Speaking at her party's annual political conference, the head of Scotland's devolved government and the leader of the pro-independence SNP will tell supporters that the prospect of a break between Scotland and the rest of the UK has never been closer.

"Independence is in clear sight - and with unity of purpose, humility and hard work I have never been so certain that we will deliver it," the first minister is expected to tell the virtual conference according to a pre-released statement.

Sturgeon and the SNP have argued for a second referendum on Scottish independence since the party's overwhelming victory among Scottish seats in Britain's 2019 general election.

Opinion polls have shown in subsequent months that a majority of public opinion in Scotland now supports independence, though in a 2014 referendum on the issue the country voted to remain part of the UK...

CONTINUED...

Read more: https://www.yahoo.com/news/scotland-leader-tell-party-shes-003910538.html



Looks like Prime Minister Boris Johnson has his hands full With the new incoming Biden administration, Brexit, and Scotland wanting to break away. Looks like THE United Kingdom is going to pay a high price for Brexit.
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Scotland leader to tell party she's 'never been more certain' of independence (Original Post) IsItJustMe Nov 2020 OP
So how does Northern Ireland feel about Brexit? exboyfil Nov 2020 #1
the religionists oughta give up their hate and do something for everyone on the island nt msongs Nov 2020 #3
Unionists beginning to question... paleotn Nov 2020 #5
Northern Ireland will leave first. roamer65 Nov 2020 #11
Not certain about this. They have (obviously) always been Unionist as they don't want to get buried Capt. America Nov 2020 #32
Catholics are actually the majority now. roamer65 Nov 2020 #44
Looks like Boris will suceed in tearing it all to pieces. jeffreyi Nov 2020 #2
Everything changes. IsItJustMe Nov 2020 #4
The sea makes a better border for Ireland exboyfil Nov 2020 #6
I never did understand their voting it down before. (Year?) efhmc Nov 2020 #24
The Scottish voters have been consistant. ssgbryan Nov 2020 #26
Thanks for the info. efhmc Nov 2020 #27
Trump's just pissed that he wasn't able to do the same here. LudwigPastorius Nov 2020 #12
Saor Alba Gu Brath! TomSlick Nov 2020 #7
Of course, Westminster is now saying they won't authorize another Scottish referendum... regnaD kciN Nov 2020 #8
Westminster has no say on it. roamer65 Nov 2020 #9
Catalunya was a different situation DFW Nov 2020 #17
Why do you beleive that? I am not questioning your knowledge, I really would like to know. CTyankee Nov 2020 #29
Johnson is an immediate spur, yes, but Denzil_DC Nov 2020 #35
Well said. Thanks for posting. SharonClark Nov 2020 #45
I am not as familiar with Scotland as I am with Catalunya, of course DFW Nov 2020 #37
On your last paragraph, Denzil_DC Nov 2020 #38
That last about initiative as opposed to raw resources is very encouraging DFW Nov 2020 #39
I don't think anyone's under any illusions that there will be major challenges if independence Denzil_DC Nov 2020 #43
thank you. I learned a lot from what you have said here. I appreciate it! CTyankee Nov 2020 #40
You're very welcome. Denzil_DC Nov 2020 #41
at least you have that. CTyankee Nov 2020 #50
First step toward Scottish independence. roamer65 Nov 2020 #10
Second step: LudwigPastorius Nov 2020 #13
Haggis is pretty good, tree trunk throwing might be more effective or burrowowl Nov 2020 #14
Nonstop bagpipe skirling,... LudwigPastorius Nov 2020 #15
No they won't Wolf Frankula Nov 2020 #16
Ahhh...pipers against pipers... LudwigPastorius Nov 2020 #19
That would bring about an immediate English surrender. roamer65 Nov 2020 #18
"Weaponized haggis " is redundant. bluedigger Nov 2020 #28
Good point. LudwigPastorius Nov 2020 #30
That makes sense. Piss off the English even more! CTyankee Nov 2020 #42
While Boris is an asshole... nycbos Nov 2020 #20
This message was self-deleted by its author IsItJustMe Nov 2020 #21
I suspect Spain can be persuaded eallen Nov 2020 #23
This is an utter myth about Spain. Denzil_DC Nov 2020 #36
The *United Kingdom* Delphinus Nov 2020 #22
The new Hadrian's wall Javaman Nov 2020 #25
Perhaps two layers of matchboxes would work. LudwigPastorius Nov 2020 #31
Be careful for what you wish for Scotland. I'm not certain how a Scotland pound would stand up Capt. America Nov 2020 #33
After Brexit, I am not sure how the British Pound sterling will hold up either. IsItJustMe Nov 2020 #34
I was in England during the Brexit vote and in Scotland during the Independence vote. SharonClark Nov 2020 #46
I wouldn't be surprised if B.J.... Xolodno Nov 2020 #47
K&R ck4829 Nov 2020 #48
Hope both Scotland and the Six Counties in the north Roisin Ni Fiachra Nov 2020 #49

exboyfil

(17,863 posts)
1. So how does Northern Ireland feel about Brexit?
Fri Nov 27, 2020, 10:19 PM
Nov 2020

Here is one article. Will that be the next shoe to drop?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/01/brexit-ireland-press-reunification-vote-sinn-fein-mary-lou-mcdonald

Ireland cannot trust an “erratic” and “dangerous” Boris Johnson on Brexit and needs to start pressuring Downing Street for a referendum on Irish unification, according to Mary Lou McDonald, the leader of Sinn Féin.

Johnson has forfeited credibility by unpicking the withdrawal agreement and cannot be believed when he says he wants a trade deal, said McDonald. “He’s the prime minister and perfidious Albion just got perfidiouser, if there’s such a word.”

If Britain did not “honour a bargain fairly struck” it would face a backlash from Ireland’s allies in the EU and US, where congressional leaders could sink Downing Street’s hopes of a US trade deal, said McDonald. “If there is damage in Ireland, if there’s a hardening of the border – well, then all bets are off.”

By next year, the centenary of Northern Ireland’s creation, Catholics are expected to outnumber Protestants for the first time, a seismic demographic shift that comes just as Brexit has prompted some unionists to question the region’s position in the UK.

paleotn

(17,913 posts)
5. Unionists beginning to question...
Fri Nov 27, 2020, 10:37 PM
Nov 2020

That's a huge shift given their history. The benefits of EU membership by uniting with a south that's not at all what they were raised to believe it is, or slip into economic stagnation and decline with England. Seems the choice is obvious. Johnson may go down as the PM who did the impossible...reuniting Ireland. Not exactly the legacy he was hoping for.

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
11. Northern Ireland will leave first.
Fri Nov 27, 2020, 11:31 PM
Nov 2020

They have a clear separation path dictated by the Good Friday Agreement. They can call a unification referendum.

Capt. America

(2,477 posts)
32. Not certain about this. They have (obviously) always been Unionist as they don't want to get buried
Sun Nov 29, 2020, 12:26 AM
Nov 2020

in a Catholic greater Ireland republic.

IsItJustMe

(7,012 posts)
4. Everything changes.
Fri Nov 27, 2020, 10:37 PM
Nov 2020

My personal opinion is that Scotland would be better off going it alone. They were not thrilled with Brexit and if you study history, they have been wanting to break away from England for a long long time. If they did though, it's hard to imagine them putting up a hard border. But then again, it's hard to imagine them putting up a hard border between Ireland and Norther Ireland, but it looks like some type of border is going to have to be erected between them with Brexit. Northern Ireland would be a part of Brexit and Ireland won't. It's going to be seriously screwed up.

 

ssgbryan

(23 posts)
26. The Scottish voters have been consistant.
Sat Nov 28, 2020, 03:22 PM
Nov 2020

Voting Yes in 2014 would mean leaving the EU. (Better together)

62% of the Scottish voters voted no on Brexit.

Voting Yes in the next independence vote would mean rejoining the EU.

And every move Boris makes, the numbers get worse. There is now talk of taking back things that had been devolved to the regional Parliaments, which will only accelerate this.

LudwigPastorius

(9,140 posts)
12. Trump's just pissed that he wasn't able to do the same here.
Sat Nov 28, 2020, 12:08 AM
Nov 2020

Fortunately, there's a huge gap between Civil War reenactors and real, shooting civil war volunteers.

TomSlick

(11,098 posts)
7. Saor Alba Gu Brath!
Fri Nov 27, 2020, 10:53 PM
Nov 2020

Boris and the Breixteers have destroyed the United Kingdom. Scottish independence would simply be a recognition of what has already occurred.

regnaD kciN

(26,044 posts)
8. Of course, Westminster is now saying they won't authorize another Scottish referendum...
Fri Nov 27, 2020, 10:55 PM
Nov 2020

...claiming that the 2014 results need to stand for "a generation" (which they creatively define as "forty years" ).

Of course, Scotland could plunge ahead anyway, but we saw what happened when Catalonia did the same -- the federal government sent the troops in, arrested the region's leaders, and charged them with treason for even holding a referendum on the matter. Will BoJo be willing to do the same? Previous British governments certainly have.

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
9. Westminster has no say on it.
Fri Nov 27, 2020, 11:26 PM
Nov 2020

If the Scots want to hold it, hold it they will.

They are stubborn and decisive lot. I know.

I’m a good part Scottish and I am a stubborn bastard.

DFW

(54,378 posts)
17. Catalunya was a different situation
Sat Nov 28, 2020, 02:45 AM
Nov 2020

I have lived there, still go back once a month or so, and I speak Catalan.

The independence movement there was a very vocal minority. They didn’t even represent all Catalan-speaking people in Spain, since the Balearic Islands all speak Catalan, as well as the coastal areas down to Valencia. Puigdemont only cared about « les cuatre,» in other words, the four provinces constituting the official administrative area of Catalunya because that is where the money is. The majority of Catalans, having achieved the linguistic and cultural autonomy they were denied under Franco, are not interested in setting up a new national entity that will have to negotiate entry into the EU, the Euro, and NATO. They are also against belonging to a separate political entity from their Catalan-speaking brethren in the rest of Spain.

The case for Scotland is far stronger.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
29. Why do you beleive that? I am not questioning your knowledge, I really would like to know.
Sat Nov 28, 2020, 09:05 PM
Nov 2020

Is Boris Johnson the basic reason Scotland wants independence? How are they restricted now?

I confess my ignorance here. I don't understand their problems with remaining in the UK.

One side of my family is Campbell and I know next to nothing about that clan.

Thanks for giving me insights to this situation!

Denzil_DC

(7,237 posts)
35. Johnson is an immediate spur, yes, but
Sun Nov 29, 2020, 03:01 AM
Nov 2020

he's just the latest and most blatant Westminster leader to be utterly tonedeaf and arrogantly dismissive of not just Scotland's, but the (especially northern) English regions', Wales's and Northern Ireland's concerns as well.

Because of population distribution, MPs from southern English constituencies will always heavily outnumber those from outside England and its other regions. This may not matter as much if a UK government is sensitive to the needs of the areas outside the southeast of England, nearer London, but few have done more than offer lipservice in recent times. Especially with the current government, Westminster acts as the English parliament and the Tories have enough MPs to override pretty much any opposition.

The drive for Scottish independence isn't new. It was behind the precursor to the Labour Party that sprang up in Scotland early last century.

It was a minority movement for many years, but eventually the tensions of the UK's uneven government led to two referendums on devolution and the establishment of a national assembly for Scotland. The first referendum was sabotaged by English MPs who changed the rules to effectively give the dead votes (and was one factor in the demise of Callaghan's very troubled Labour government that ushered in the Tory Thatcher years). Pressure from the EU led to the second referendum, which voted convincingly yes to devolution. Wales and Northern Ireland later gained their own devolved assemblies, but Scotland's has most powers.

Initially, the Scottish assembly was envisaged as little more than a sop and a talking shop, like a glorified local council. As it began to hit its stride and gain powers, the SNP's vote share rose until it eventually managed to win a majority of seats in the Scottish assembly (which had been believed impossible because the proportional representation system of voting had been set up to avoid one party, especially the SNP, taking power and to encourage coalitions). The SNP has been in power in Scotland since, sometimes relying on coalitions, as it does with the Green Party at the moment.

It was hard to gain agreement from the UK government for the 2014 referendum on independence, and it was then hard fought. Initially, support for Yes to independence polled much lower than No, but over the course of the lengthy campaign, it grew until it caused serious alarm in Westminster. One major focus for the No campaign was EU membership and the argument that if Scotland became independent, it would not be welcome in the EU, not least because what was left of the UK would do its best to make sure that was the case. SNP debaters did point out that there was the possibility of a referendum that might take the UK out of the EU, and also that the laughable at the time figure of Boris Johnson might become UK prime minister. Both these prospects were heavily pooh-poohed as ridiculous.

You'll know enough of the UK's recent history to understand how that all panned out after the independence referendum went 55%/45% No. Scotland then voted resoundingly 62% to remain in the EU in the subsequent referendum.

The argument now is that the UK leaving the EU is a fundamental change of circumstances that warrants a fresh Scottish independence referendum to take account of the new situation. On top of that, promises were made in the post-referendum settlement for more powers for the Scottish parliament that have not been honoured (Labour figures tend to want to talk about federalism in the UK as a solution, but there's no serious support for it and power tends to be centralized under any UK government), and there's a constant buzz from Johnson and other high-up Tories to strip powers from the Scottish parliament, or even abolish it altogether. Meanwhile, Scotland's SNP MPs, who form the third largest party in Westminster, are routinely abused, belittled and patronized by the Tories. They don't seem to grasp that when they do that, they abuse, belittle and patronize those of us who voted for them as our representatives.

Opinion polls over the last year have shown support for independence in Scotland rising to consistently around 60%. This has been driven partly by the ongoing Brexit debacle, partly by the mismanagement of the COVID crisis by Westminster, partly by the perception that Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has done a far better job of communicating and marshalling resources and heeding scientific advice on the pandemic, but not least by the lack of respect from the Tories and their incompetence and blatant corruption in handing out contracts for PPE etc. The main counter-argument from those who oppose Scottish independence at the moment is that the first independence referendum was described by SNP politicians at the time as a "once in a generation opportunity". They want to focus on the words "once in a generation" and ignore the context of "opportunity", and want to define a generation in this case to extend up to 40 years.

Johnson's the obvious figurehead for all that dysfunction. I don't think he and his cabinet are capable of charming voters in Scotland after the experiences of the last few years, even if they had any inkling to try to do so.

DFW

(54,378 posts)
37. I am not as familiar with Scotland as I am with Catalunya, of course
Sun Nov 29, 2020, 06:30 AM
Nov 2020

Scotland has had its own identity for centuries, of course, and the latent animosity goes, from what I can tell, deeper that the rift between Catalunya and the rest of Spain.

There is the religion thing, although I doubt anyone still laments Bonnie Prince Charlie any more. But the Scots I know were very much for remaining in the EU, and think they were cheated out of their membership when Brexit went through. I think this will be what pushes a majority over the top if another referendum is held. Both sides will have to ask themselves which will be more disruptive--holding another independence referendum or not holding it? Ultimately, it will be held, so best to get it over with, I say. Many Scots obviously feel their economic future will be brighter within the EU than outside of it. Although I think the EU has been horribly mismanaged and let a number of disruptive taker states in that permanently damaged the Union, I do not think an independent Scotland would fall under that category by any stretch of the imagination. There do not appear to be a lot of parts of Scotland that speak Gaelic as their first language, but I'll bet that, as with Ireland, an independent Scotland would experience a revival in interest in the old language.

Catalunya never had to worry about the language issue. While Franco made a concerted effort to repress the language by forbidding it in schools, daily newspapers and daily TV programming (when it became widespread), even sending all the teachers from Catalonia to other parts of Spain when he took over (did the same with the Basques), the language was far too deeply rooted in the population. When I lived there (1968-1969), the people spoke Catalan, and immigrants from other parts of Spain learned it or became waiters. The people called streets by their old pre-fascism names, even 30 years after the end of the Civil War. These days, the original names are back, and no streets are named after fascist generals any more. The signs say Carrer and Avinguda instead of Calle and Avenida.

Texts in Catalan pre-date texts in Castilian (i.e. "Spanish" ) by about a century. Even when I lived there, and Franco was still in power, you would see spray-can slogans on the city walls: "Català à la scola," or "Catalan in school," which was then forbidden. In a complete turnaround, one Catalan friend of mine makes an effort to speak Castilian with his wife when their children are around, so that they become bi-lingual. Since Catalan now IS the language in school, they feel (correctly) that fluency in "Spanish" is vital as a prerequisite to getting any kind of a job. The "Reino de Aragón" of Fernando II basically comprised the East of what is now Spain, including the Catalan-speaking areas. It merged with Isabel's Reino de Castilla to form what is now roughly modern Spain in 1492, so more than two centuries before Scotland became part of the United Kingdom in 1707. Spain got used to it before becoming a great world power. In Scotland, like Billy Joel sang in "Allentown," the restlessness was handed down.

As far as sustaining itself as an independent state, I don't know how far along Scotland is there. North Sea Oil is a lot less coveted at $42 a barrel than at $105 a barrel, and the costs of extraction do not diminish. You can only produce so much liquor, too, and that leaves only cardigan sweaters and fish for revenue. That is not the strongest of portfolios, but the will undoubtedly try to attract some manufacturing away from England, and the EU will surely give its blessing for temporary tax advantages for companies that relocate to new member Scotland, much as they did to Ireland previously.

So, if they leave the UK, a newly independent Scotland might end up being a "taker state," where Catalunya has long been Spain's "giver state." The EU, will bend over backwards to show Scotland some love in this regard, if for no other reason than to thumb its nose at the UK for leaving.

I think, therefore (and, again, this is just my view from here in Düsseldorf), that the stars will probably not align more favorably that they are now for Scotland to lave the UK and join the EU within the next three years. This doesn't mean that the idea will actually be acted upon, but there are plenty of Scots who see it that way as well. Whether or not there are enough of them to set something in motion is another matter entirely.

There is one more factor about which I know plenty in Catalunya and nothing in Scotland, and that is the number of residents of the one living in the other. Catalunya had hundreds of thousands of people from other parts of Spain living there. The last thing they want is to be suddenly confronted with is suddenly living where they are as a foreigner. The same goes for Catalans living in other parts of Spain, though there are less of them. How many Scots are living in the rest of the UK? No idea. I know several, but I don't know enough about England to have a feel for how many there are, and I also have no idea how many non-Scottish UK citizens live in Scotland. How numerous these people are, how vital they are to the local economies, these are important factors to consider before making a drastic move. I firmly believe that if that had all been thoroughly examined before the Brexit vote (not on TV debates, but by the population as a whole), there would never have been a Brexit in the first place, and we wouldn't even be discussing this.

Denzil_DC

(7,237 posts)
38. On your last paragraph,
Sun Nov 29, 2020, 09:56 AM
Nov 2020

the emphasis in Scotland is not on "blood and soil" native-born nationalism, but rather civic nationalism. If you've settled in Scotland and pay taxes there, you're considered Scottish to all intents and purposes, and that's likely to be the model for residency and citizenship in a future independent Scotland.

As an illustration of this, the franchise has been extended in Scottish elections (i.e. not those concerning Westminster) to include non-native citizens who are resident here. This means that people like my partner, who's lived in Scotland for many years but is still a US citizen, will be able to vote in next year's Scottish parliament election, as will any EU citizens who've managed to survive Westminster's efforts to eject them.

Scotland has a demographically ageing population, so immigration is seen as something to be encouraged, and a necessity. Similar pressures apply in the rest of the UK to a lesser extent, but nevertheless Westminster's attitudes to immigrants are notorious.

As for Scotland's economy, there's a lot more to it than oil, whisky, textiles and fish, though those sectors would thrive better with closer attention and more support than Westminster gives them. I don't propose to fill this page even more than I have already, but as just one example, Dundee is a major centre for computer games and other high-tech initiatives, which is a significant market. As another, the central belt is a serious player in the space satellite industry. The country is rich in natural resources, from fresh water to renewable energy - the latter a sector that's been hampered by lack of UK government investment over the years - and has a well-educated population, so its future will depend more on initiative than raw resources.

DFW

(54,378 posts)
39. That last about initiative as opposed to raw resources is very encouraging
Sun Nov 29, 2020, 10:25 AM
Nov 2020

Untainted fresh water will, I suspect, be fought over in the next century more than oil, gold, or arable land.

Scotland has, for US potential immigrants, a language advantage that Catalunya does not, where Catalunya has weather that is to die (or immigrate) for.

I have heard great things about Edinburgh, though I have never been there. If fate should decide to do a restart on me and relocate me back to Barcelona, I wouldn't raise the slightest objection. But for me there is no language barrier there. My wife would have to start from scratch, although there is a sizeable German expat community there already, and EU citizens have no bureaucratic barrier.

She still remembers "Setze jutges d'un jutjat mengen fetge d'un penjat," the start of a Catalan tongue twister I taught our girls when they were little. It won't help you order a paella, but it will get you a smile.

Denzil_DC

(7,237 posts)
43. I don't think anyone's under any illusions that there will be major challenges if independence
Sun Nov 29, 2020, 10:38 AM
Nov 2020

is achieved, but we had an extended debate about all these issues in the extended run-up to the 2014 referendum, and that's continued since.

Having English as a lingua franca is a definite advantage. Although only Ireland among the EU countries has it as a native language at the moment, markets in the rest of the world (not least the USA) do rely on English, so it could be another incentive for Scottish accession to the EU if that's the way Scotland decides to go.

During the Brexit nonsense, Scotland has undertaken many diplomatic initiatives with major players in the EU. To some extent, the boot is now on the other foot on that issue compared to the first referendum, and there have been many encouraging noises. I'm aware that acccession for Scotland could be seen as a way for the EU to stick it to what's left of the UK, but the common interests that existed before Brexit are still there. In terms of sovereignty, ironically Scotland could be better served democratically as a full EU member (or, even as just an interim measure, a member of EFTA or whatever) than it is now as part of the UK.

Denzil_DC

(7,237 posts)
41. You're very welcome.
Sun Nov 29, 2020, 10:29 AM
Nov 2020

Sorry if I tend to run away at the keyboard on these issues, but it's rare for a subject to arise on DU where I have on-the-spot knowledge!

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
50. at least you have that.
Mon Nov 30, 2020, 11:38 AM
Nov 2020

I'm an art historian and my husband kids me when I can't remember a work of art or its artist on Jeopardy or one of the other quiz shows. Sometimes it's an artist I've written about, which is a real downer. My memory sucks as I age.

burrowowl

(17,641 posts)
14. Haggis is pretty good, tree trunk throwing might be more effective or
Sat Nov 28, 2020, 01:02 AM
Nov 2020

curling the granite stones at them.

Wolf Frankula

(3,600 posts)
16. No they won't
Sat Nov 28, 2020, 02:32 AM
Nov 2020

The Northumbrians and Border English have bagpipes too. Offer Parliament some of that hundred year old Uisge-beatha aged in barrels and they will say yea.

Wolf


LudwigPastorius

(9,140 posts)
19. Ahhh...pipers against pipers...
Sat Nov 28, 2020, 04:19 AM
Nov 2020

MAED - Mutually Assured Ear Destruction!

No wonder there hasn’t been a battle in over 450 years.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
42. That makes sense. Piss off the English even more!
Sun Nov 29, 2020, 10:37 AM
Nov 2020

Have the Brits been successful in clinging to the English pound? I realize that for them there is a real advantage to having your own control over the currency you use. Scotland doesn't have it now (with the English pound) so the advantage of having control over your own currency is not an issue.

nycbos

(6,034 posts)
20. While Boris is an asshole...
Sat Nov 28, 2020, 09:29 AM
Nov 2020

Scotland will never be allowed to join the EU. Any EU country can veto their admission. Spain would veto because they do not want to set a precedent for an independent Catalonia to join.

To say the SNP is being disingenuous about the future of an independent Scotland in the EU is an understatement.


Given Russia's is to weaken western alliances and the SNP wants to get rid of the UK independent nuclear deterrent I am willing to bet some of the SNP's money comes from Russia.

Response to nycbos (Reply #20)

Denzil_DC

(7,237 posts)
36. This is an utter myth about Spain.
Sun Nov 29, 2020, 03:12 AM
Nov 2020

The Spanish government has gone to great lengths to emphasize that it sees the situation with Catalonia as totally different to that of Scotland. If Scotland secures and wins a referendum, Spain will not stand it its way if it seeks accession to the EU.

If you need a source for backup of my rebuttal of this disingenuous claim of yours, here's one among many: https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-membership-spain-scotland/

Now you can maybe give a source for this claim of yours of Russian funding for the SNP. I won't hold my breath.

IsItJustMe

(7,012 posts)
34. After Brexit, I am not sure how the British Pound sterling will hold up either.
Sun Nov 29, 2020, 01:28 AM
Nov 2020

There in lies the problem. I am sure that is a major concern for Scotland. Scotland will do what's right for them.

SharonClark

(10,014 posts)
46. I was in England during the Brexit vote and in Scotland during the Independence vote.
Sun Nov 29, 2020, 12:35 PM
Nov 2020

Interesting experiences.
One on the Isle of Wight that voted heavily for Brexit and the other in Glasgow that voted for independence.

Xolodno

(6,390 posts)
47. I wouldn't be surprised if B.J....
Sun Nov 29, 2020, 09:44 PM
Nov 2020

...gets the boot before it gets too serious.

Northern Ireland could be tempted to unify with Ireland, but as an autonomous zone which could pacify any issues.

Roisin Ni Fiachra

(2,574 posts)
49. Hope both Scotland and the Six Counties in the north
Mon Nov 30, 2020, 10:36 AM
Nov 2020

of Ireland declare independence from Boris Johnson's England, and leave his Trumpish disaster behind.

Heck, it's only 12 miles from Scotland to the Irish Isle. They could build the Irish Sea Bridge and boost their economies

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