Kyrsten Sinema Joins Joe Manchin in Rebuking $15 Minimum Wage Being Put in Stimulus, Dashing Progres

[Polybius]

Source: Newsweek

Full title: Kyrsten Sinema Joins Joe Manchin in Rebuking $15 Minimum Wage Being Put in Stimulus, Dashing Progressives' Hopes

Arizona Senator Kyrsten Sinema, a moderate Democrat, has rejected inclusion of a $15 minimum wage in President Joe Biden's coronavirus stimulus package, dashing hopes for progressive lawmakers who are pushing for the raise.

Sinema joined Democratic Senator Joe Manchin, a fellow moderate from West Virginia, in publicly rebuking the idea that raising the minimum wage is appropriate amid the ongoing stimulus bill negotiations.

The Arizona senator made her views clear during an interview with Politico this week, in which she said would "not support" any provisions not directly related to providing immediate COVID-19 relief.

"What's important is whether or not it's directly related to short-term COVID relief. And if it's not, then I am not going to support it in this legislation," Sinema told Politico.

Read more: https://www.newsweek.com/kyrsten-sinema-joins-joe-manchin-rebuking-15-minimum-wage-being-put-stimulus-dashing-1568931

[bullimiami]

1. What is wrong with these two?

[dlk]

2. How much time do you have...?

[bullimiami]

3. Not enough I'm sure.

[lagomorph777]

14. They don't want to help their constituents.

Apparently, 60% living below the poverty line in WV is not enough.

[certainot]

51. they're in talk radio states and they think their dittohead constituents yelling on the phone

to staff are legitimate constituents instead of idiots who believe the radio blowhards and fox twits who tell them the min wage will killl jobs

that is why dems have to digitize, analyze, boycott, and destroy rw radio

[FBaggins]

75. A nationwide $15 minimum probably doesn't help their constituents

Not in WV anyway.

[llmart]

80. Why wouldn't it?

I'm not understanding your statement.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

88. Yeah, that is nonsense.

$15 would help immensely in a poor state like WV.

[Demsrule86]

128. Of course it would.

[FBaggins]

129. There are few "of course"s in economics

There are scenarios where an increased minimum wage hurts more than it helps. Not nearly as many of them as the right would like us to believe... but they do exist.

The simple economics thought problem is to pick ever higher numbers. How about $20? or $50? or $2,000/hour. Obviously, there's a level at which mandating that wage for even the "highschool kid flipping burgers" will cost far more jobs than the higher wage actually helps. The kid who does nothing but prepares the beverages in the drive-thru will absolutely be replaced by the machine that does it automatically at some price point... and that's a different price in different markets.

The goal is a living wage for the working class. The simple fact is that "living wage" is a different figure in different parts of the country with different costs of living. Almost certainly... the state with the lowest (or second lowest?) income and low cost of living is the one most likely to be harmed by a given minimum. The representatives for that state are in the best position to evaluate whether that's the case and seem to agree.

[Demsrule86]

46. I would also add...I still believe in the end both Senators will vote for a minimum wage bill.

You can't trust Newsweek...hopefully their constituents are sending them lots of messages right now.

[DeltaLitProf]

130. But we're going to need 60 votes

How likely is a $15 minimum wage, even graduated, to get 10 GOP votes?

Apparently Biden plans to leave the filibuster as is.

[Cobalt Violet]

103. They got theirs.

The hell with everyone else. It's called conservatism.

[trueblue2007]

120. i hope they are both primaried. I've seen many notes here saying the same thing I posted

[Bucky]

121. insert mandatory "primarying Manchin will cost us that seat" post

I wonder if he can be bought off

[radius777]

132. Sinema yes, Manchin no.

AZ is a purple state that Biden won and there's no reason for Sinema to be so conservative. There are other better Dems such as Ruben Gallego who IMO could win statewide there.

But Manchin likely is the only Dem who can win in ruby-red WV so we have to put up with him. Though on economic issues the residents of his state likely support the mininum wage increases that he opposes.

[maxrandb]

4. This is right-wing rag Newsweek pushing. "Dems in Disarray" meme

Let's not help them.

[Polybius]

10. It's listed smack right in the middle here

Perhaps you're thinking of Newsmax?

https://libguides.lorainccc.edu/c.php?g=29395&p=183699

[My Pet Orangutan]

26. Um ... CNN, the New Yorker and Jacobin in the same basket?

Fail. Just fail.

[maxrandb]

37. Newsweek was recently purchased by IBT. A "business" consortium

tied to some pretty crazy Christofascist folks.

With regular editorials by the likes of Nigel Farage, Newt Gingrinch, Alan Dershowitz and a host of even nuttier wingnuts, Newsweek isn't what it used to be.

https://newrepublic.com/article/158968/newsweek-rise-zombie-magazine

[kimbutgar]

58. My sister was a subscriber to Newsweek since she was in high school in 1968

She stopped subscribing last year as she saw how it got more right wing in its views.

[Ligyron]

106. I seem to recall several left leaning articles in it in the past.

Maybe it was like ... way past tho'.

[Griefbird]

59. Allsides rates Politifact as "left"

It seems they agree that facts have a left wing bias.

[Montauk6]

62. No InfoWars, eh?

I think they need a redder column and drop Newsmax and ONAN in so Alex won't be lonely.

[llmart]

77. Since when does CBS lean left?

That chart is a joke.

[NurseJackie]

95. Media Bias Fact Check: Newsweek LEFT-CENTER BIAS

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/newsweek/





LEFT-CENTER BIAS

These media sources have a slight to moderate liberal bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes) to favor liberal causes. These sources are generally trustworthy for information, but may require further investigation. See all Left-Center sources.

Overall, we rate Newsweek Left-Center Biased based on editorial positions that slightly favor the left. We also rate them Mostly Factual in reporting rather than High due to two failed fact checks, however, they do correct errors.

Detailed Report

Factual Reporting: MOSTLY FACTUAL
Country: USA
World Press Freedom Rank: USA 45/180

History

Newsweek was founded by Thomas J. C. Martyn in 1933, as a weekly magazine headquartered in New York City. Today, Newsweek is a news magazine and website, which covers news and analysis, international issues, technology, business, culture, and politics. Newsweek was bought by The Washington Post Company in 1961 and eventually sold to audio magnate Sidney Harman in 2010. The Daily Beast and Newsweek then merged in a joint venture and was named The Newsweek Daily Beast Company, which lasted for 2 years.

[Yavin4]

111. What is to the right of the right most column?

Never mind. I don't want to know.

[Docreed2003]

5. So, for the next two years, every single bit of legislation boils down to

Well do Sen Sinema and Manchin agree to this? Amazing that this is where we've come in our country that a select few, whether it be McTurtle or folks on our side can actively serve as roadblocks to progress and, unless you're politically tuned in like we are, no one bats an eye at it!

[Demsrule86]

42. It is too bad...it could have been different had we supported Democrats in 2010, 2014,

and 2016. Now we are in rebuilding mode, and we get what we can. pressure can be applied in WVA and in Arizona as the minimum wage is pretty popular. We shall see. And no primaries please...we can't lose any seats in 2022 period. If we can't get minimum wage, we move on with other things like Infrastructure, green jobs...etc.

[maxrandb]

44. That's what the Right-wing wants you to think

Even in this story with the 'sensationalized" headline, Senator Sinema isn't "rejecting" the minimum wage. She's simply saying if it can't be tied to COVID Relief, she won't support it.

In fact, the headline could be "Senator Sinema won't Support Giving a New Ferrari to Every American"...well, she did say "if it can't be tied to Covid relief", so I guess Ferrari's are out.

[Gilbert Moore]

56. Defund HER !

There are a lot of other Dems who aren't playing holier than thou. . . We need to fight for $15 WHEREVER we can.

She is worthless.

[Demsrule86]

65. No with her...we get the majority...so she is not worthless...so stop. This is Democratic

underground by the way and she is up for reelection in 22 by the way. If she loses and we don't win elsewhere...Mitch is back. Midterms are historically difficult for the president's party. I hope we can beat the odds.

[sweetloukillbot]

102. She's up in 24. Kelly is up in 22.

[Stargleamer]

6. This is such a betrayal

from someone who once wrote, “Until the average American realizes that capitalism damages her livelihood while augmenting the livelihoods of the wealthy, the Almighty Dollar will continue to rule”.

[Ollie Garkie]

7. Huh?

What. The. Fuck. Is. Their. Problem?
Who is paying them to be turds in the
punch bowl?

[KPN]

8. The federal minimum wage is still set at $7.25. Obama tried to raise it to $9 to no avail.

Perhaps some thought should be given to recognizing the disparity in cost-of-living that exists between States, and establish a different federal minimum wage construct -- something pegged to the real poverty level of each State rather than the one-size-fits-all that a defined $ and cents minimum wage amount nationally represents. $15 in Mississippi is way more than it is in, say, New York or California. Would $12, say, have the same effect in MS as $15 in NY?

I just wonder whether minimum wage should go the way of building codes which in Oregon, at least, eventually recognized that insulation levels don't need to be the same in coastal areas which have moderate temperatures due to thermal conditions of the Pacific Ocean as northeastern Oregon where temperatures reach relative extremes by comparison.

Just a thought. More complex, but isn't rocket science.

[Mr.Bill]

22. Minimum wage is not a battle Congress should have to fight.

It is a regional issue. And while some areas have addressed it better than others, it is already being taken care of in many areas. I'm not saying there should be no federal minimum wage, and it should be higher than 7.25, but there is no logic to the minimum wage being the same in California as it is in Arkansas or West Virginia.

[KPN]

25. The problem is the southern States which were used by corporations as a means to bust

organized labor. As long as we have States that sponsor and support union busting/suppression, there will exist a need for federal leverage and a federal mandate of some sort. Wages have stagnated ever since manufacturing started migrating to cheap labor and governments that rigorously supported corporations over workers. That needs to stop.

[Mr.Bill]

29. I agree with you,

but in some states a couple can buy a nice house on two $15 an hour wages. In Silicon Valley, that couple is likely homeless.

[KPN]

33. Ergo, something other than one-size-fits-all that reflects the reality of a

particular State's economy. Maybe California's would be pegged higher?

If we can make phones that can monitor and trade money on Wall Street among a zillion other things, we should be able to do that.

[Mr.Bill]

47. Yes. California and other states have already done this.

We are on a five year schedule to get to $15. There are different schedules for smaller businesses with under a certain amount of employers. This way it doesn't hit mom and pop businesses as hard. I don't have enough nationwide data to peg what the bottom should be nationally, but I'm sure it should be above 7.25. West Virginia is at 8.75 currently.

A joke I read back when Rick Perry was governor of Texas tells the story.

A businessman traveling through Texas was having breakfast at a diner and reading the newspaper. He told the waitress an article said that Rick Perry had created more jobs this year than any other governor in the country. She replied, I know, I've got three of them.

Texas still has a 7.25 minimum wage and it has the highest percentage in the country of people working for minimum wage.

[Demsrule86]

40. It is not just Southern states. Ohio has a very low minimum wage.

[Demsrule86]

38. There is no area where 7.25 can be enough to put food on the table and a roof over your head...

The 15.00 hour minimum would take millions out of poverty. I am all for it. It should be more in certain areas but the federal minimum should be above the poverty level...and something needs to be done with part time work forced on folks by bullshit by companies...make them pay a penalty.

[llmart]

82. I agree.

[Bucky]

122. Only experts agree with you. But nobody listens to them

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/022615/can-family-survive-us-minimum-wage.asp

earnings of a minimum-wage worker with a family of four fall well below the poverty line. While many states and some cities have minimum wage rates much higher than $7.25, minimum-wage earners still struggle to pay bills, secure housing, and support a family.

[IronLionZion]

9. Amazing how she started her career as a Green party liberal activist

but later evolved into a conservative Democrat. I guess some people become more conservative as they age, or some special interests are paying her off.

Her constituents in Arizona could definitely use some relief. I guess she doesn't believe in trickle up economics.

[Thekaspervote]

11. Moderate Democrat?? Bull s..t

[TexasBushwhacker]

12. I don't think they can pass $15 an hour in one fell swoop

Why don't they raise to $10/hr, then $1 per year until they hit $15, then index it to inflation. We get a COLA for Social Security, as small as it is. The MINIMUM wage show be indexed as well.

[Mr.Bill]

23. The proposal is just that.

doing it in stages over a five year period.

[Miguelito Loveless]

13. Put it in, and let them torpedo

the whole bill and take the blame personally.

Time to let them fish or cut bait.

[marble falls]

16. Absolutely, let their constituents see how they vote.

[Mr.Bill]

24. I agree with you in principle,

but not at the expense of killing the entire Covid relief bill.

[Miguelito Loveless]

71. Again, they are bluffing

When push comes to shove, are they seriously going to stand up and go on record destroying the entire budget bill and COVID relief? I very much doubt it. They bluff, we always fold, they know that is a fact.

[Demsrule86]

35. No, the Covid bill has to pass.

[Miguelito Loveless]

67. Then let them be the two who destroy the deal

If we always fold to these people, we might as well just pack it in now. They are bluffing. They are NOT going to take the heat for destroying the budget deal. They know it is political suicide.

[Mr.Bill]

76. They think it's political survival

in their states.

[Miguelito Loveless]

84. In either case, they are going to lose

At least minimum wage and COVID relief are defensible. A vote against both is not.

[Mr.Bill]

86. Look up Manchin's and Sinema's phone numbers and tell them.

You're preaching to the choir here.

[Miguelito Loveless]

93. My past experience calling senators from other states

is that they hang up on you when you are not from their state, with a "please address this to your own senator."

[Mr.Bill]

94. That's not surprising. n/t

[Escurumbele]

15. This is why my celebration of Democrats "taking" the Senate was not loud

We have a couple of couple of "Blue Dog Democrats", Joe Manchin being the leader and consistent with his votes and opposition, so a 50/50 plus Kamala Harris IS NOT a win. Manchin is a problem, and he tilts the balance too many times, I predict he will be a thorn for Democrats and Progressives trying to pass legislation.

Not trying to offend any Joe Manchin supporters, this is my humble opinion based on what I have seen the many years Manchin has been around.

[Stallion]

21. Thin Analysis

Of course, it was a major win because it took Moscow Mitch down and allows the Democrats to control the agenda in both the Senate and its committes including legislation and nominations. Its more a reflection that we did not perform in the other Senate races as well as we might have which results in divided government. Its still is a major change in the balance of power.

[Escurumbele]

43. I did not say it was not great to get Moscow Mitch out, that was excellent but 50/50 is not good

enough for the reasons I explain. It will be interesting to count how many times the 50/50 won't be enough, all it takes is one Joe Manchin to vote with republicans to tilt the balance.

As a matter of fact, I said I did not celebrate as much as I would have liked to for the reasons I explained then and now.

Sorry I did not make a thick analysis for you.

[Demsrule86]

32. You know what would be a bigger thorn? Mitch McConnell. At least we don't have to worry

Last edited Fri Feb 12, 2021, 04:52 PM - Edit history (1)

about the GOP shutting down the government every other month and the debt ceiling. We need both Manchin and Sinema in order to hold the majority...you want to get more stuff done...elect Democrats in 22 against the odds.

[Escurumbele]

54. Definitely, I don't disagree with anyone on that, I am happy we don't have to deal with Moscow Mitch

But once again, we have Democratic Senators who, like Joe Manchin, vote a lot with the other side, so a 50/50 is not good if we want Biden and the Progressives to pass laws that will really benefit the country, and not being able to pass those laws will be an disadvantage come 2022 when new Senators are being elected we all know the right to try to make it look like we did nothing, or not enough.

I don't know if I explained myself well, my comment had nothing to do with the fact that yes, when votes are 50/50 we have Kamala Harris to break it in our favour, it had nothing to do with anything else, just the tight rope of having a 50/50.

Right now we have Manchin and the other going against what Democrats want to do regarding the $15.00/hour minimum wage, we cannot count on any republican to vote against their party, so where are we? 48/52...republicans win aided by two Democrats...

[Demsrule86]

60. And in order to hold a majority that is going to have to happen. That is our reality until we can

win hearts and minds towards more progressive policies. We won't get everything but we will get some things. We have a big tent or the GOP is in power.

[Demsrule86]

68. So you think it would be better if Mitch stayed in power and helped kill thousands more

Americans by blocking a Covid bill and everything else? That was the alternative. I thank God we won...consider judges alone. Really, winning is always better.

[Escurumbele]

108. I cannot believe how what I wrote has been misinterpreted...I will explain again

It is not that I am not delighted that Moscow Mitch is not the majority leader, I AM...

What I found not so great was the fact that we had a 50/50 split that only Kamala Harris can untie.

Does anyone understand that with Senators like Joe Manchin, who tends to oppose many things Democrats want to pass, just one Senator can tilt the balance making it a 51/49 win for republicans? Why is it so difficult to understand that is what I was talking about?

When did I say I though it would be better to have Moscow Mitch in power? Don't put words on what I wrote, it has nothing to do with that.

I am happy we won the Senate, that Schumer is the majority leader, what I am not happy about is the fact that a 50/50 split is still going to make it hard for Democrats and Progressives passing bills more difficult when we have people like Manchin who can tilt the balance in favour of republicans, and then there goes our advantage.

Is that clear enough? I hope so. Why instead of attacking what I wrote you try instead to understand what I wrote?

Yes, you are right, those are good things that you point out, definitely, I am just not comfortable with the split of 50/50. I celebrated, I did, but not as much as I would if we had won a 53/47, or something like that.

Thank you for your feedback.

[drray23]

115. that has not been the reality.

Manchin grumbles and make noise but he never once torpedoed a bill by himself when introduced by the democrats. On crucial votes he will vote with the caucus. When he has not in the past, he has had cover where his vote would not have decided the outcome. So, he voted against to appear moderate to his constituents. I seriously doubt he would sink a bill by himself.

[mysteryowl]

17. The question is, what is "their" minimum wage number?

$14
$13
$12
$11...
$8?

[durablend]

18. Zero, maybe

[mysteryowl]

19. You are thinking Manchin & Sinema don't want a federal minimum wage?

[Massacure]

57. Manchin's is $11.00

If the choice is $11.00 or nothing, the Democrats should take $11.00 and run. With the sole exception of 1968, the inflation adjusted minimum wage has never been worth more than $11.00. $11.00 is a win.

[vsrazdem]

69. The bill in question does start at $11 and goes up over 5 years.

[montanacowboy]

20. Fast way to cure this shit

and cut these two off at the knees and make them irrelevant

Make DC and Puerto Rico States. End of story. Goodbye Manchin and Sinema.

[Demsrule86]

30. They would have to vote for that also...you think they would?

[bearsfootball516]

41. Sure, you just have to eliminate the filibuster to do that, which would take 50 votes.

Oh, and both Manchin and Sinema have said they're against killing the filibuster...so...

[Evolve Dammit]

27. Remember when McCain was talking about the maximum income for people when Obama thought 180K was

about right for taxation? McCain thought 4 million was about right. He was serious. And Bush had no idea how much groceries cost? I think most extremely wealthy just plain don't care and don't even bother to connect with the rabble. They want to extract everything they can from "labor" and pay the bare minimum. They'd sell your body parts if they could. Fifteen bucks is at least a chance to pay bills, but you're not going to go anywhere on it. Subsistence wages, and even that is too much for them.

[Demsrule86]

28. Take the fight to their constitiuents who want a minimum was hike...Sinema has to run again

in 22

[dobleremolque]

31. We Arizona progressives don't call her

"Cursed-In" Sinema for nothin'.

[sandensea]

34. Note to Senator Sinema: We've seen this movie before

The one where some centrist Democrat caves to GOPee pressure in order to appear "bi-partisan"...

And then ends up losing the next election because 10-20% of Democrats stay home rather than vote for you, while 100% of Repug voters stick with their fascist hyena candidate.

Bad policy, and politics.

[radius777]

133. +1. This is politically dumb because voters want results.

Voters don't care about bipartanship per se, only results. Repubs know this and want to obstruct or trick conservative Dems into being 'bipartisan' - who Repubs will then run against as 'not producing results'.

[sandensea]

134. Well said.

I expected it from Senator Epipen - but not from Sinema.

Perhaps I should have.

[cstanleytech]

36. Personally I reject a $15 as well but not because I do not think people should be paid less but

rather I think they should be paid a hell of alot more not to mention that we will be right back where we started from eventually as wages stagnant yet the price of living gradually increases.
No, I think we need a more drastic method to increase most workers wages and imo it is one that ties the workers wages to the taxes companies pay.
For example if we raise the corporate tax to 60% on businesses that earn over 50 million a year and make it so that the only way to lower that is by the size of their work force and the number of employees that they have that earn 500% over what the federal minimum wage is as automatically adjusted by the Treasury department with zero say by Congress on what it is set at.
The larger the workforce and the more workers that they have (contract, temp workers and those that work at a franchise count) that earn over that the less they pay in corporate taxes.
The other thing is that overseas workers should count towards the number of employees that they have though the wages do not count.
That way it makes it less profitable for companies to offshore jobs to avoid paying their taxes.

[chowder66]

39. Kyrsten Sinema in 2014

Has this new stance been reported by anyone reputable?

Tweet
See new Tweets
Conversation

Kyrsten Sinema
@kyrstensinema
A full-time minimum-wage earner makes less than $16k a year. This one’s a no-brainer. Tell Congress to #RaiseTheWage!

Link to tweet

[Hassin Bin Sober]

45. At least they don't have an "I" next to their name, eh?

[NurseJackie]

96. Thank goodness for that.

If they had no loyalty to the party, they'd be insufferable. I'm very happy that they're Democrats.

[hibbing]

48. Didn't blink an eye when it was 1 trillion for the ruling class n/t

[Demsrule86]

50. Remember, it is Newsweek...I expect both to support minimum wage as it is popular in their

states. And pressure can be brought on both of them if they try anything.

[BradBo]

52. Democrates in name only.

Their districts must be just a tiny bit bluish.

[Demsrule86]

61. That is untrue. They are Democrats who have a moderate viewpoint and without them, no

majority.

[Bucky]

123. That's true, but this is such a fundamental issue

It's not like a jump to $15 overnight. Is it economist, I think even a four-year phase in, which they're talking about, would be a little rushed.

But you have to go the full 15. Manchin's idea of an $11 pay floor over 4 years would produce almost the same inflation as Biden's 15, so the bulk of the added buying power would mostly go to landlords and healthcare premiums.

[Demsrule86]

127. We will be lucky to get any of it...and I would take what I could get.

[BradBo]

53. Democrates in name only.

Their districts must be just a tiny bit bluish.

[Fiendish Thingy]

55. Make.Them.Vote.Against.The.Bill.

Don’t cave to their rhetoric, take the bill to a floor vote, with the $15 min wage intact, and Make them vote to kill the whole stimulus bill.

But first, send VP Harris back to their states to interview with local media about how their obstruction will harm every person in their state.

If they vote against the stimulus bill, their careers are over.

[Demsrule86]

63. Let's not sacrifice our Covid Bill if we can't get their votes. However, I think we will get

minimum wage in the end as it popular in most states.

[Fiendish Thingy]

73. That's my point- if you take the bill to a floor vote, they won't dare vote against it

Despite their rhetorical objections, if the COVID bill were taken to a floor vote with the $15 min wage intact, I don’t think Manchin and Sinema would have the guts to vote against it- they know it would end their careers.

Dems need to call their bluff and not give in to obstructionism.

[LiberalLovinLug]

64. "a moderate Democrat"??????

Why does the MSM and Democrats as well, shy away from using the correct term for politicians, who routinely take the more conservative position.

I'll give you a hint, the name is within my first sentence.
You guessed it...."CONSERVATIVE". That is not a party, but a political position through which you see the world.

Some here use the term DINO. Even that is incorrect. They never pretended to be Democrats, at east the kind of Democrat that believes in traditional Democratic policy. They were always conservatives. And are very comfortable in that crowd. They are conservative Democrats.

[Turin_C3PO]

85. Manchin votes with us 60% of the time.

He’s no liberal but he’s not a conservative.

[NurseJackie]

97. He's a Democrat and I'm happy to have him.

Especially considering that if WV put a Republican in that seat, he/she would vote with the GOP 99% of the time (or more).

[LiberalLovinLug]

98. I beg to differ

Its a mindset. It will be a constant fight to pull him over to even a moderate position.
Maybe its because I am defining moderate and conservative like the rest of the planet does. I realize that in the US, everything is zero outed and skewed to the right before any definition is given.

[Turin_C3PO]

112. I agree

that worldwide he’d definitely be considered conservative. But I’m just saying within our system he’s pretty much straight in the center .

[drray23]

116. exactly and when he votes against us, his vote is not the deciding vote.

I doubt he would torpedo a crucial vote just by himself. Schumer would make sure of that before putting the bill on the floor.

[vercetti2021]

66. I just hope we can win some seats in 2022

Because these two are utterly fucking useless

[0nirevets]

70. Tone deaf DINOs, can't see past their own noses, sabotage over reason and cooperation.

[rickyhall]

72. Damn DINOS

Not Fred's Dino...

[TomDaisy]

74. forum rules do not allow my response

[marie999]

78. The stimulus part of the bill to give people checks now and increase

unemployment benefits. That is what is important now.

[marie999]

79. The stimulus part of the bill to give people checks now and increase

unemployment benefits. That is what is important now.

[madeup64]

81. Frustrating

Considering here in Arizona we passed a measure to increase the minimum wage and it increases every year based upon inflation perhaps she would realize her constituents are in favor of this.

[jorgevlorgan]

83. jerks

[krawhitham]

87. If we can get it in the bill, they will not vote against it

It's the only shot they have to pass a pandemic bill. You only get one shot with reconciliation

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

89. Politics is the art of compromise.

Currently the min wage is what 7.25? Would they vote for 10 or 12 now? Come back in a few years and bump it again?

[patphil]

90. These two moderate Democratic Senators are showing us how much power they have.

It's a 50/50 situation, so we need every Democrat to be on board to pass any legislation. The question is, will they support the bill with concessions, and what will those concessions be?
I don't blame them, this is the first real power they've had, and they intend to make the most of it.
If the Republicans weren't such shits, we might be able to pass this without them, but that's highly unlikely.

[Renew Deal]

91. Rejecting $15 minimum wage is a good way to get labeled a "moderate"

[Snackshack]

92. Manchin always does this...

Yet people think it is still a good thing to keep him in the caucus. Not sure why Sinema is doing this. This is why Dems are thought of as weak they never get on the same page when they actually have the opportunity to make a change as the GOP does. Why anyone would block raising the minimum wage from $7.25 after well over two decades to $15 makes no sense.

[jorgevlorgan]

114. Unfortunately kicking him out of the caucus does mean giving up our majority.

[Snackshack]

117. I know.

Doing it now would be suicidal so we are stuck with him. The Dems should have dealt with this issue many, many years ago when he pulled this bull 💩 before.

[ChazII]

99. Many here don't belong to Facebook

but for those who do read her Facebook page and what her voters are telling her.

[BobTheSubgenius]

100. Sinema seems to be unable to hold two thoughts in her head simultaneously.

COVID relief and raising the minimum wage are not only NOT mutually exclusive, they are not even incongruous. In terms of difficulty, there are probably an unfathomable number of "t's" to cross and "i's" to dot, which making the minimum wage is, by comparison, a couple of ticks on a register.

How can it be much more difficult than taking a statement like "Minimum wage = x" and changing it to "Minimum wage = $15."

[BobTheSubgenius]

101. DOH!

The sentence containing "t's to cross" etc should have contained "in writing COVID relief legislation" just after "dot."

[StevieM]

104. Remember when Bernie was denouncing Hillary for proposing $12 an hour?

And states would have the right to go higher.

Hillary understood that $15 would never pass. She proposed an increase that was significantly larger than the $10.10 Obama had proposed. It would have been the highest minimum wage in American history, even taking inflation into account.

She was lambasted as a DINO who stood in the way of progressivism. They made her out to be the second coming of Joe Lieberman.

We are now seeing what real conservative Democrats look like. I still can't believe that the liberal champion of the 1990s was successfully labeled that way.

[NurseJackie]

105. I remember.

[betsuni]

125. Yes.

But fifteen is the only possible progressive number. Twelve, twelve-fifty, fourteen, sixteen. No, not progressive. Fifteen only. Plus, all the $15 plans are incremental, which now is suddenly fine but used to be a very, very bad terrible Democratic sin.

[SunSeeker]

107. Joe knew this was going to happen. That's why he said he didn't think it could stay in the bill.

Last edited Fri Feb 12, 2021, 08:47 PM - Edit history (1)

Places like WV and rural AZ think $15/hour is a lot of money for an unskilled worker.

[Marthe48]

109. They're keeping life poor, nasty, brutish and short

Thomas Hobbes

[DeminPennswoods]

110. Really do not get this opposition

First, the raise is to take place over a few years.

I live in an economically depressed area, right near the border of eastern Ohio and the northern WVa panhandle. Even here, starting wages are at or over $10/hr and some places like Walmart are starting employees at $12/hr and others like Aldi are close to it. In 2, 3, 4 years, starting wages are going to be near $15/hr.

When jobs pay better in PA, where does Sen Manchin think workers are going to go? They're going to cross the border and work in PA and probably shop there, too. Why wouldn't you want to keep your state's workers home, pay them better and have them spend their disposable income in local businesses to help your own state's economy?

[Akoto]

113. Putting this in the bill was dumb. It would obviously provoke opposition and further delay.

I 100% agree with raising the minimum wage, but the bill was difficult enough to get into consideration without tacking this historically controversial topic into the mix.

They should've held their fire to let the COVID relief pass ASAP, and then pushed for this in separate legislation. This is delaying vital assistance which will save lives.

[MichMan]

119. Sounds like that is the reason they oppose it as well

[ChazII]

118. She is getting feed back on her Facebook page

for her views. Many are telling her not to be a traitor. Other messages remind her not to to be a Republican.

[Jimbo S]

124. What does Minimum Wage have to do with COVID relief?

The COVID situation is temporary, MW is permanent.

[Ollie Garkie]

126. Jesus christ

Maybe including min wage in Covid bill is not the best idea, but Manchin and Sinema seem to be trying to willfully sabotage it. What is their deal? I envy the ability of repubs to March in lockstep.

[Mr.Bill]

131. Fine. Leave their two states out and just do it in the other 48.

Then when they dazzle us with their low unemployment rates and a booming economy caused by businesses rushing to move to their states to enjoy the prosperity resulting from below poverty level wages I will be the first to admit I was wrong.