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BumRushDaShow

(128,860 posts)
Fri Mar 19, 2021, 10:52 AM Mar 2021

CDC says three feet between students is enough

Source: Washington Post

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention revised its guidelines for schools Friday, saying three feet of distance between students is sufficient for all elementary and many middle and high schools, a change that lays the groundwork for districts to reopen full-time for in-person classes. The announcement came as the CDC published new research that found limited coronavirus transmission in schools that require masks but not always six feet of distance, which had been the standard. That was true even in areas with high community spread of the virus.

Last month, the CDC recommended that schools maintain six feet of distance between people when it issued much-awaited guidelines for schools. To achieve that, the agency said schools in most of the country should limit the number of students in the building at any given time and hold off on fully reopening. That recommendation came under fire from many experts as overly cautious, particularly as more evidence emerged that schools were safely operating with people closer to one another.

Nonetheless, with the guidance in place, many systems adopted hybrid systems, where students are in school buildings part of the time and learning from home the rest. CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said earlier this week that her agency was reconsidering its stance as more data became available. “CDC is committed to leading with science and updating our guidance as new evidence emerges,” she said Friday in a statement. “These updated recommendations provide the evidence-based roadmap to help schools reopen safely, and remain open, for in-person instruction.”

President Biden has called on schools to fully reopen, and the revised guidelines put the CDC more clearly in line with the White House. Until now, the CDC was encouraging schools to remain partially shut at the same time Biden was encouraging them to fully open. But the change is sharply opposed by the country’s two large teachers’ unions, who argue that there is scant research about the impact of closer contact in urban schools, where buildings are older and classrooms more crowded.

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/cdc-schools-three-feet-distance/2021/03/19/62689464-88bc-11eb-82bc-e58213caa38e_story.html



This is going to be a bit of a mess - particularly in urban schools that lack ventilation, let alone temperature control.
42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
CDC says three feet between students is enough (Original Post) BumRushDaShow Mar 2021 OP
This sounds like a political decision (to half the safe distance) CentralMass Mar 2021 #1
Agree BumRushDaShow Mar 2021 #3
School's practically over for the year (well, by time everyone gets vaccinated) soothsayer Mar 2021 #4
Here in Philly, I just read an article where the School Superintendent BumRushDaShow Mar 2021 #10
Yeah, those are probably creepy on the inside soothsayer Mar 2021 #13
They try to paint the rooms and renovate BumRushDaShow Mar 2021 #15
Just saying it does NOT look good when bluestarone Mar 2021 #2
Maybe. But if 3 feet is good 6 feet is better. Masks and sanitizing are good too. But if abqtommy Mar 2021 #5
Not for the variants coming our way. Bad idea Evolve Dammit Mar 2021 #6
The old schools have functioning windows, creaks and crevices Deminpenn Mar 2021 #7
The old schools BumRushDaShow Mar 2021 #12
That is a serious overgeneralization Deminpenn Mar 2021 #16
The problem is the state has chronically short-changed the school system here BumRushDaShow Mar 2021 #18
No argument about school funding inequities here in PA Deminpenn Mar 2021 #30
The issue of the actual buildings BumRushDaShow Mar 2021 #31
All this back and forth bothers me. nt sheshe2 Mar 2021 #8
Me, too. hamsterjill Mar 2021 #21
Remember the back and forth about wearing masks? sheshe2 Mar 2021 #23
It just wreaks of pandering to me. hamsterjill Mar 2021 #24
Maybe that's just "science". Keep studying something, and you learn new things. JustABozoOnThisBus Mar 2021 #34
Shouldn't there be more like 4 feet between students on average? Midnightwalk Mar 2021 #9
WHO has been saying this for longer. AllyCat Mar 2021 #11
Wouldn't mind seeing the science behind it soothsayer Mar 2021 #14
THAT is the whole point. HUAJIAO Mar 2021 #25
It Doesn't Mean 2 Or 6, Averaging 4 ProfessorGAC Mar 2021 #37
Thank you for the detailed information. HUAJIAO Mar 2021 #39
If It's Even The Slightest Relief... ProfessorGAC Mar 2021 #40
Thanks.... HUAJIAO Mar 2021 #42
I'd like to hear Dr. Walensky's evidence based rationale for this change in recommendation. Fiendish Thingy Mar 2021 #17
Hear hear !! HUAJIAO Mar 2021 #26
So. What you think? Maybe only a few hundred dead kids. Jakes Progress Mar 2021 #19
Hundreds of students quarantined after returning to all in-person learning (paywall) babsbunny Mar 2021 #20
Here in Philly where they are phasing in the littlest ones starting March 13 BumRushDaShow Mar 2021 #22
I AM GOING TO SCREAM NOW. TNNurse Mar 2021 #27
I heard some clarifications BumRushDaShow Mar 2021 #28
Right on time for the variants. What could go wrong? littlemissmartypants Mar 2021 #29
The Science is out there Sgent Mar 2021 #32
The problem though BumRushDaShow Mar 2021 #33
"particularly in urban schools that lack ventilation, let alone temperature control." EX500rider Mar 2021 #35
As examples BumRushDaShow Mar 2021 #36
Accusing the CDC of being 'political' (too liberal, too conservative) has a familiar ring to it. pampango Mar 2021 #38
+1 (nt) ProfessorGAC Mar 2021 #41

BumRushDaShow

(128,860 posts)
3. Agree
Fri Mar 19, 2021, 11:15 AM
Mar 2021

There seems to be a big (probably justified) push to get the schools open. The problem is, as was finally exposed and magnified this past year, is the "divide" between school systems and schools within school systems., and not just the "digital divide".

Sadly many who need their children in schools because of the types of jobs they are in that requires them to be "on site", also live in areas whose schools are in the worst shape, structurally, due to decades and decades of neglect and minimal building maintenance - notably in the urban areas. Additionally, due to budget holes and consolidations, these schools tend to have had more students jammed into them after closing buildings to save money, thus the classroom populations often far exceed the 25 - 30 students per room, and in rooms that would be too small and not meant for that many.

soothsayer

(38,601 posts)
4. School's practically over for the year (well, by time everyone gets vaccinated)
Fri Mar 19, 2021, 11:21 AM
Mar 2021

Won’t mind those guidelines in the fall.

Idk.

BumRushDaShow

(128,860 posts)
10. Here in Philly, I just read an article where the School Superintendent
Fri Mar 19, 2021, 12:07 PM
Mar 2021

is talking possible ("voluntary" ) summer sessions. And the thinking was to target the younger children who have really fallen behind and to get to the 11th graders who are trying to prep for college.

They have started phasing in the youngest here - pre-K - 2nd graders and I think they want to have all of that group in-person by the end of the month as they make adaptations to the piece of junk 19th and early 20th century (or worse) school buildings, plus get the teachers vaccinated (they moved their priority way near the top of this list in the city and the state wanted to designate all of their J&J allotments to teachers & school staff vaccinations).

There are literally dozens of schools like this built in the mid '20s where the current attendees' great-great-grandparents attended...





They didn't even have a school library until a private (expensive) religious (Friends) school volunteered to get them set up about 6 years ago.

This is the typical in the city.

BumRushDaShow

(128,860 posts)
15. They try to paint the rooms and renovate
Fri Mar 19, 2021, 01:47 PM
Mar 2021

but if you have roof leaks or pipe breaks on the floors above, you end up with those foam ceiling tiles (that are fitted on high ceilings) stained and crumbling.

This is what they had started doing as they have started phasing in "hybrid" for the youngest students -





And this was just announced mid-week already and was in our local news -

Mayfair Elementary temporarily closing due to multiple COVID-19 positive cases, officials say

Published 1 day ago
Updated 18 hours ago
Philadelphia
FOX 29 Philadelphia

MAYFAIR - Mayfair Elementary School will close temporarily from March 18 through April 1, due to multiple positive cases of COVID-19, officials announced Wednesday. A letter was sent to parents and families of students, detailing steps officials will embark on to ensure safety for all within the school community. The letter explained any child who was in a classroom with a student or staff who subsequently has tested positive for COVID-19 will be contacted by Philadelphia Department of Public Health to list next steps, including the need for the child to quarantine. All students will participate in digital learning while the school building is closed.

The letter went on to explain parents and families should be aware of possible COVID-19 symptoms going forward and what to do if symptoms develop. Officials went on to say the building would be deep cleaned and disinfected before the return of students and staff. The school should reopen Monday, April 5, according to the letter. A spokesperson for the School District of Philadelphia released the below statement following news of the closure.

"The health and safety of students and staff remains our highest priority as we resume in-person learning. The School District continues to work closely with the Philadelphia Department of Public Health (PDPH) to monitor and identify any COVID-related situations that require immediate District action. Due to several positive COVID-19 cases at Mayfair School, PDPH has determined that the school building will temporarily close on March 18th through April 1st to help stem exposure to and spread of the virus. Students and staff will return to a 100% digital learning model for all planned instructional days during this time, and families will be contacted by their child’s teacher with specific details. The entire school building will be deep cleaned and disinfected before it is reopened. The School District has proactively planned for these instances and will continue to be responsive as needed to support healthy school environments."

Philadelphia Federation of Teachers President Jerry Jordan responded to the closure, saying, "Our agreement to allow a return to school buildings is based on adherence to a stringent set of protocol. We have been, and continue to, hold the District accountable to adhering to these critical health and safety protocol." He added," "We need an ongoing, trackable database of positive COVID-19 cases in buildings, and have made this ask of the District. Anecdotally, we have learned from our membership that efforts to trace cases are delayed. This is unacceptable. The District must immediately address their notification and tracing protocol and must provide a standardized reporting mechanism, including a publicly accessible dashboard."

https://www.fox29.com/news/mayfair-elementary-temporarily-closing-due-to-multiple-covid-19-positive-cases


The above school was one of the earliest to open because it is a brand new school constructed around 2019 - 2020 -



And at the same story link, they mention Roman Catholic High School here (one of the Philly Archdiocesan high schools) that just had to close this week due to a COVID-19 outbreak -

Roman Catholic High School moving to all-virtual learning until April due to COVID-19 cases

By FOX 29 staff
Published 1 day ago
Coronavirus
FOX 29 Philadelphia

PHILADELPHIA - Roman Catholic High School is moving to all-virtual learning until the beginning of April due to positive COVID-19 cases. According to officials, two additional people tested positive for COVID-19. Both individuals were last on campus on Friday, March 12. Transmission circumstances surrounding these two cases were unrelated.

In a letter to parents and students, the school said after reviewing the school’s recent case count, the Philadelphia Health Department determined that Roman Catholic High School must cease in-person instruction and in-person student athletics/activities through Tuesday, March 30.

Since the required closure aligns with their scheduled Easter break, they will be following an all-virtual learning model during this time and will return to hybrid instruction on Tuesday, April 6, which is a "B" day.

https://www.fox29.com/news/roman-catholic-high-school-moving-to-all-virtual-learning-due-covid-19


Roman Catholic is one of the 1890 piece of junk "gothic style" (which is prolific around the city) schools -



They do have newer "additions" attached to that, one that is almost 70 years old and the other that is almost 25 years old.

abqtommy

(14,118 posts)
5. Maybe. But if 3 feet is good 6 feet is better. Masks and sanitizing are good too. But if
Fri Mar 19, 2021, 11:33 AM
Mar 2021

I had kids in school these days I'd want them safe at home.

Deminpenn

(15,278 posts)
7. The old schools have functioning windows, creaks and crevices
Fri Mar 19, 2021, 11:39 AM
Mar 2021

where fresh air can come and go.

It's the newer schools that were designed to be energy efficient that are more problematic.

My alma mater is actually going back 5 days/wk from a 2 in/3 at home schedule in a week. The neighboring school district has been back 5 days a week since the beginning of March.

BumRushDaShow

(128,860 posts)
12. The old schools
Fri Mar 19, 2021, 12:56 PM
Mar 2021

have poor ventilation and they are now 50+ years older than when I went to them. The "creaks and crevices" are irrelevant when the air flow is uncontrolled and erratic, with whole classrooms or even wings of the buildings that lack heat (or have too much) from day to day.

The newer schools (and one of my youngest nieces in the 'burbs has now had 2 BRAND NEW schools built in her school district (elementary schools) in her 15 year lifetime) at least have a functional HVAC system, with heat and air-conditioning.

There's no AC in the old piece of junk buildings either except for when they were forced to put window units in after an idiotic attempt to open the schools at the end of August a few years ago and got hit with a fucking heatwave, forcing them into having half days that whole week, which made the "early" opening a waste when the classrooms hit 90+ degrees inside.

They finally started getting with the program and have at least started putting air purifiers (I am assuming HEPA) in the classrooms for the children they have started phasing in so far. They don't even really need the high-end ones since you would already have the other mitigation factors (masks, shields around desks, distancing).

Deminpenn

(15,278 posts)
16. That is a serious overgeneralization
Fri Mar 19, 2021, 01:53 PM
Mar 2021

My alma mater was built during the beginning of The Depression. It's still standing and in great shape. The windows open and close and there ventilation system is fine. It's beautiful to this day and serves as the jr high/middle school. The replacement high school won't last nearly as long and looks like a supermax prison.

BumRushDaShow

(128,860 posts)
18. The problem is the state has chronically short-changed the school system here
Fri Mar 19, 2021, 02:15 PM
Mar 2021

and the buildings are dilapidated, where many of those windows are rotting out, and no, they are not all "opening and closing".

Before I retired, I worked in a federal building built in the early FDR era that was a WPA building, where thanks to the 2009 ARRA funding, every single window was replaced in the building (including the one in my office) with "similar-looking" double-sashes, but energy efficient versions. In contrast, many of the schools built in that era or just before, have old rotting wood windows that are caged to keep break-ins down and thwart the rock-throwers.

There is definitely nothing wrong with the "foundational" construction of these buildings, where most if not all once served as bomb shelters, but it's the rest of it - the lead pipes and non-potable drinking water, the poor electrical systems, heating using boilers where parts are difficult to find, and no AC except for window units that have had to be installed over the past couple years.

When I first got out of college looking for a job in my field, I subbed for a year in the Philly school system in what was then known as "District 5" (the neighborhoods of Kensington, Port Richmond, Bridesburg, Feltonville, etc), and was a long-term sub at this lovely 1916 gem (Kensington High) -



as well as this 1921 beaut - Carroll School (now closed) -



where even the classroom doors were caged.

Deminpenn

(15,278 posts)
30. No argument about school funding inequities here in PA
Sat Mar 20, 2021, 02:55 AM
Mar 2021

But also there are vagaries in school district maintenance, too. Where I went to school, the building and grounds maintenance were and are well-tended. That's why the old school is in such good shape. In the adjoining financially better off district, maintenance was deferred on their junior high until it got to the point where millions had to be spent on a near complete remodel and repair of a building that was only about 50 years old.

For me, it's sad to see the loss of the well-constructed, ornate old buildings.

BumRushDaShow

(128,860 posts)
31. The issue of the actual buildings
Sat Mar 20, 2021, 05:30 AM
Mar 2021

and many of them have already been designated as "historic", is what is not the problem per se (outside of the need for roof maintenance). For example a couple other similar era schools that I had subbed at that same year included Stetson Middle/Junior high -



and Bodine High School for International Affairs -



The masonry and artwork (carvings and other ornamental decorations) on the exteriors, reflects a bygone era of craftsman whose ranks have all but disappeared.

But at the time these buildings were built - probably all oriented to take advantage of the wind directions for some kind of air flow in the buildings through the tall windows since this was all pre-AC, the initial environments around them also lacked blocking structures to allow that. Now many of them are on streets and surrounded by all sorts of buildings including factories (most now abandoned) that came about during and in support of WW2, years after these schools were built.

And the most notable issue is the plumbing. It's bad enough taking care of plumbing in a home but in these old buildings, it's a nightmare, particularly with the lead levels in the water, and thus the water is non-potable (and you're lucky to find a school with a newer filtered water fountain).

And the other nightmare has been asbestos, much of it now crumbling and going airborne, and the past couple years have been spent attempting abatement. Because the school buildings have been closed the past year, they have started doing some of that work but the scope is daunting -

Amid Philly schools’ asbestos crisis, city to pay an outside monitor to watchdog jobs

by Kristen A. Graham and Wendy Ruderman
Updated Feb 26, 2020

With Mayor Jim Kenney’s blessing, the city has hired an environmental firm to provide oversight on the Philadelphia School District’s asbestos abatement efforts, which have often been marred by problems. The move comes amid strained relations between the district and the Philadelphia Federation of Teachers, which monitors environmental work inside city schools.

The city will pay Arc Environmental, a Baltimore-based firm, up to $90,000 through the end of the school year to help the district and the PFT agree on asbestos abatement protocols. The firm is also “another layer of transparency, and to make sure there are best practices," said Rich Lazer, deputy mayor for labor.

The district has closed 10 schools since early fall because of asbestos contamination. After longtime teacher Lea DiRusso was diagnosed in late summer 2019 with mesothelioma, an asbestos-linked cancer, the school system stepped up environmental inspections inside its more than 200 buildings. The stepped-up scrutiny has meant more “imminent hazards” are being discovered in classrooms, gyms, and common areas where children and teachers gather.

Officials have made it plain that the district does not have the money or the capacity to complete all the work that must be done to make schools safe from asbestos. It has also been hampered by personnel shifts — the district reassigned its chief operating officer earlier this year, and its environmental manager recently resigned. Its current facilities chief is a part-time consultant.

https://www.inquirer.com/education/asbestos-philadelphia-protocols-pft-mayor-kenney-hite-oversight-20200227.html


The above article highlighted McClure Elementary/Middle school, a 1910 building that was undergoing abatement-



and the teacher who suffered the mesothelioma after working almost 30 years, was at this 1930 school - Meredith Elementary/Middle school in South Philly -



When I call these "piece of junk" buildings, it's not the structures themselves, but the interiors, where teachers, staff, and students congregate all day. They are literal hazardous, toxic wastelands of lead, asbestos, mold, and now you add COVID-19 into that mix.

hamsterjill

(15,220 posts)
21. Me, too.
Fri Mar 19, 2021, 02:39 PM
Mar 2021

You hit the nail on the head.

Are they right now? Or were they right before with six feet? There’s ambiguity and that creates uncertainty.

sheshe2

(83,746 posts)
23. Remember the back and forth about wearing masks?
Fri Mar 19, 2021, 04:17 PM
Mar 2021

Also saw on CNN, that some educational group NEC (I think it was) said that the CDC is saying this without any degree of certainty.

hamsterjill

(15,220 posts)
24. It just wreaks of pandering to me.
Fri Mar 19, 2021, 04:43 PM
Mar 2021

They need to substantiate the change and they’ve not yet done that. Give me facts. Give me science.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,338 posts)
34. Maybe that's just "science". Keep studying something, and you learn new things.
Sat Mar 20, 2021, 09:09 AM
Mar 2021

I expect more changes, as we learn.

I welcome most of the changes. We're no longer wearing rubber gloves to the grocery store, littering the parking lot with discards. We're no longer using Clorox wipes to clean all the vegetables and fruit that we buy.

HUAJIAO

(2,383 posts)
25. THAT is the whole point.
Fri Mar 19, 2021, 05:00 PM
Mar 2021

Almost NOBODY takes their own time to do the scientific research, which isn't hard... people just listen to CDC, County Health Depts, State health Depts, POLITICIANS, etc etc,, blah blah blah.

This is one of those times where I strongly disagree--- this 3' vs 6' is just a joke.... 4'average! What in the world does that mean? Could be 6', could be 2'...
If somebody with COVID sneezes, or just yells, those cute little aerosols travel a hell of a lot farther than 6'!

ProfessorGAC

(64,995 posts)
37. It Doesn't Mean 2 Or 6, Averaging 4
Sat Mar 20, 2021, 04:14 PM
Mar 2021

I read the original report, including the raw data.
Data from schools open since September or October were reviewed.
Minimal spread was found in districts with strict mask policies & a process to ensure maximum practical spacing.
Using these sites for data, the 4' is a weighted average distance based on professional observations of the environment. IOW, kids spent 70% (roughly) of the day only 3' apart, but 30% 6' apart. So, the weighted average was 3.9, or rounded to 4 feet.
They aren't recommending under 3 feet, despite kids probably spending 1/3rd of that time closer than 3 feet.
It's 3' minimum, weighted average of 4.
I read the whole thing because I've subbed math & science over 50 times this school year. I have a vested interest in these findings.
My experience is that despite all best efforts, kids will be kids and they forget the 6' thing. Remind them and they'll comply, but they forget.
I can guarantee you that I've seen zero instances of 6' compliance by all kids, all day.
And of the schools I worked in, the worst case numbers were 26 cases over 5 months in a school of around 500. About 1% per month and surprisingly, no "hot" period which suggests infected kids & adults were more likely to have been infected away from school, not in it. The case load was pretty consistent over those 5 months.
I admit, none of the dozen schools I go to are overcrowded. That's obviously a factor that might be a problem for very large schools in major metro areas. (I live in a county of around 700,000 people. Biggest city is 160,000. So, not Chicago or NY or LA.). But, far, far from rural.

HUAJIAO

(2,383 posts)
39. Thank you for the detailed information.
Sat Mar 20, 2021, 05:02 PM
Mar 2021

I've been really concerned about public schools "opening' too much too soon in various ways. Just my own human interest.. Plus I have an 8 year old 'nephew' in Huntsville, AL. His parents are keeping him home and doing all on line schooling for now.. Not sure of the infection rate there. Where I live in Up-State its not too bad.. worse in colleges.

"Kids can't be guaranteed to stay 6 feet part" Neither can most adults.

Anyway, thanks again. Very good information..
And I wasn't jumping on you,, just how so many people do bother to research ANYTHING..(You're definitelt ahead of me. )

ProfessorGAC

(64,995 posts)
40. If It's Even The Slightest Relief...
Sat Mar 20, 2021, 05:31 PM
Mar 2021

...the Illinois Department of Public Health did a comprehensive study that showed that in this state, even those districts that went full in-person or in-person dominant hybrid model during 2020 did not show the characteristics of spreader events. Even where modest "outbreaks" were detected, there was no exponential growth of cases.
So, your nephew & his friends might(!) be ok. Of course, nothing is certain.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,585 posts)
17. I'd like to hear Dr. Walensky's evidence based rationale for this change in recommendation.
Fri Mar 19, 2021, 02:12 PM
Mar 2021

Emphasis on the evidence based part.

Jakes Progress

(11,122 posts)
19. So. What you think? Maybe only a few hundred dead kids.
Fri Mar 19, 2021, 02:24 PM
Mar 2021

And don't count the teachers. They get paid in lip service.

So the single research report that says this says fewer kids will die. What is the acceptable number?

BumRushDaShow

(128,860 posts)
22. Here in Philly where they are phasing in the littlest ones starting March 13
Fri Mar 19, 2021, 02:55 PM
Mar 2021

for pre-K to 2nd grade, for hybrid learning (a couple days in-person and the rest virtual) and they just closed an elementary school this week because of a number of reported cases among the students (from up-thread) - https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=2715395

I think the problem that is the "elephant in the room" is this whole issue of this virus and it's ability to infect people who end up as "asymptomatic". Meaning that I think most people, unless they were aware of someone who was "symptomatic" and/or who happened to have gotten tested and told them, they would have had no idea that they were even exposed and possibly infected themselves, and probably wouldn't normally go through the effort of getting tested to confirm either way.

One of my nephews who will be 26 next month and his buddy were planning a trip to L.A. this month and when the airline had them get tested, he (so far) tested negative but his buddy tested positive (but was asymptomatic and had no idea, and the guy's wife had contracted it this past summer). So they had to cancel.

They are the age group that refuses to take it seriously and only mask if they have to (to go into a store for example) but otherwise, it's like a normal day for them. They might contract it with little or no symptoms, or maybe mild "flu-like" symptoms, but can become incubators that pass it on in super-spreader events that can infect the unlucky person whose body just absorbs the hell out of it and it multiplies like crazy inside them, putting them in the hospital.

TNNurse

(6,926 posts)
27. I AM GOING TO SCREAM NOW.
Fri Mar 19, 2021, 06:42 PM
Mar 2021

3 FEET AND EVERYONE, STUDENT, TEACHERS AND STAFF WEARING MASKS. ANYTHING THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE THAT IS WORTHLESS.

BumRushDaShow

(128,860 posts)
28. I heard some clarifications
Fri Mar 19, 2021, 06:59 PM
Mar 2021

and exceptions and whatnot on the radio (news) this afternoon and apparently this doesn't apply to HS school students nor to teachers and their distance from the children, nor to any students who don't remain "in a single cohort" throughout the day - i.e., if any "change classes" (e.g., if they have a special "reading" class they go to with a mix of kids), then the 6ft applies. Same with auditoriums and lunchrooms - 6ft.

I expect that this is really something narrowly focused on the youngest children who are not moving from subject class to subject class and generally stay together all day with each other (and nowadays, often only have recess with their own classmates, where schools were staggering class recess times even before the pandemic).

Sgent

(5,857 posts)
32. The Science is out there
Sat Mar 20, 2021, 08:26 AM
Mar 2021

MA published last week a large study of thousands of kids / teachers and found no difference between three and six feet. That is why the recommendations are changing.

https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab230/6167856

BumRushDaShow

(128,860 posts)
33. The problem though
Sat Mar 20, 2021, 09:00 AM
Mar 2021

is that the study period may have been done before the more contagious variants were detected in the U.S. and started to become dominant, meaning that those variants' have a higher ability (based on the genetic changes in their protein spikes) to "latch on" to landing sites on certain cells in the body that allow them to become "stationary" (in a sense), making it easier for them to start replicating. This is in contrast to the earlier ones (including the "wild type" original variant), where due to the spike structures, you would have more virus "floating around" in the body's fluids and unable to replicate as efficiently due to being "less sticky" for "attaching" to landing zones.

Per the PDF from your link, the study period for was from - September 24, 2020 through January 27, 2021. However unfortunately you have this fact since -

South Carolina detects first US cases associated with variant first detected in South Africa
Media Statement

For Immediate Release: Thursday, January 28, 2021
Contact: Media Relations
(404) 639-3286

CDC is aware that the first US documented cases of the B 1.351 variant of SARS-CoV-2, which was first detected in South Africa, have been identified in South Carolina.

CDC is early in its efforts to understand this variant and will continue to provide updates as we learn more. At this time, we have no evidence that infections by this variant cause more severe disease. Like the UK and Brazilian variants, preliminary data suggests this variant may spread more easily and quickly than other variants.

CDC will continue communicating with international, state, and local partners to monitor the presence and impact of variants in the United States and around the world. Monitoring variants is why CDC has expanded National SARS-CoV-2 Strain Surveillance (NS3). We continue working with national reference laboratories, state health departments and researchers from around the country to gather sequence data and increase use of genomic sequencing data in response to this pandemic.

CDC recommends that people avoid travel at this time. However, for those who must travel, additional measures have been put in place to increase safety; especially as COVID-19 variants spread around the world. As of January 26, all air passengers flying into the United States must provide a negative test result or documentation of recovery to the airline before they board a flight to the US. This is one aspect of the comprehensive, science-driven response to reduce the spread of COVID-19 through travel and in the United States.

CDC’s recommendations for slowing the spread—wearing masks, staying at least 6 feet apart from others, avoiding crowds, ventilating indoor spaces, and washing hands often—will also prevent the spread of this variant.

For more information, visit: Emerging SARS-CoV-2 Variants | CDC and Requirement for Proof of Negative COVID-19 Test or Recovery from COVID-19 for All Air Passengers Arriving in the United States | CDC

###
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0128-sc-detects-COVID-variant.html


And CDC later noted this -

About Variants of the Virus that Causes COVID-19​​
Updated Feb. 12, 2021


Information about the characteristics of these variants is rapidly emerging. Scientists are working to learn more about how easily they spread, whether they could cause more severe illness, and whether currently authorized vaccines will protect people against them.

What we know

Viruses constantly change through mutation, and new variants of a virus are expected to occur over time. Sometimes new variants emerge and disappear. Other times, new variants emerge and persist. Multiple variants of the virus that causes COVID-19 have been documented in the United States and globally during this pandemic.

The virus that causes COVID-19 is a type of coronavirus, a large family of viruses. Coronaviruses are named for the crown-like spikes on their surfaces. Scientists monitor changes in the virus, including changes to the spikes on the surface of the virus. These studies, including genetic analyses of the virus, are helping scientists understand how changes to the virus might affect how it spreads and what happens to people who are infected with it.

Multiple variants of the virus that causes COVID-19 are circulating globally:

  • The United Kingdom (UK) identified a variant called B.1.1.7 with a large number of mutations in the fall of 2020. This variant spreads more easily and quickly than other variants. In January 2021, experts in the UK reported that this variant may be associated with an increased risk of death compared to other variant viruses, but more studies are needed to confirm this finding. It has since been detected in many countries around the world. This variant was first detected in the US at the end of December 2020.
  • In South Africa, another variant called B.1.351 emerged independently of B.1.1.7. Originally detected in early October 2020, B.1.351 shares some mutations with B.1.1.7. Cases caused by this variant have been reported in the US at the end of January 2021.
  • In Brazil, a variant called P.1 emerged that was first identified in travelers from Brazil, who were tested during routine screening at an airport in Japan, in early January. This variant contains a set of additional mutations that may affect its ability to be recognized by antibodies. This variant was first detected in the US at the end of January 2021.


  • These variants seem to spread more easily and quickly than other variants, which may lead to more cases of COVID-19. An increase in the number of cases will put more strain on health care resources, lead to more hospitalizations, and potentially more deaths.

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/transmission/variant.html

    (bolding emphasis mine)

    As the old paraphrased saying goes - "Houston, we have a problem".

    We are still "early" in the life of this pandemic and the entire epidemiology, medical, and biotech world is reeling (and unfortunately doing a lot of "guessing" and bowing to the reality of political pressure, which is unfortunate but tends to happen to keep from a complete societal collapse).

    I do believe however, that the intense focus and research that is going on, is going to pay off with some extraordinary dividends in the future - particularly when it comes to creating vaccines! If you think about it, it was only about 70 years ago when the world learned the actual chemical/biological structure and role of DNA and RNA (and all the other nucleic acid functions that work with those) and it's been just under 20 years when the Human Genome Project was completed with the mapping of human genes.

    EX500rider

    (10,839 posts)
    35. "particularly in urban schools that lack ventilation, let alone temperature control."
    Sat Mar 20, 2021, 12:46 PM
    Mar 2021

    What schools don't have heat or A/C?

    BumRushDaShow

    (128,860 posts)
    36. As examples
    Sat Mar 20, 2021, 01:54 PM
    Mar 2021

    This was the idiocy they tried a couple years ago to "start early" (the last week of August in 2018) -

    September 04, 2018
    Philly public schools closing early again Wednesday due to hot weather

    By Michael Tanenbaum
    PhillyVoice Staff


    The School District of Philadelphia will again send students home early on Wednesday as excessive heat continues to smother the region. District officials said Tuesday that all public schools will dismiss at noon on Wednesday, marking the fourth unplanned early dismissal since the school year began last Monday. Students got out early last Friday as part of a planned in-service day.

    As with last week's early dismissals, all after-school activities and professional development sessions will be canceled on Wednesday. All school-based and administrative employees will be expected to report for their normal work days. Temperatures are expected to reach 92 degrees on Wednesday, with heat index values pushing up near 100 degrees.

    The early dismissals come as the district adjusts to a new calendar that sent students back to school before Labor Day for the the first time this year. Opponents of the change had questioned the likely impact of summer heat as early as 2016, when the proposal came under attack by Philadelphia Federation of Teachers President Jerry Jordan.

    Only 27 percent of Philadelphia public school buildings have central air conditioning, making the high temperatures a barrier to learning and productivity. Even overnight, the heat often takes a while to escape the city's aging schools. Temperatures are expected to remain in the low 90s on Thursday before dropping back into the eighties on Friday, with a chance of showers and thunderstorms persisting through next weekend.

    https://www.phillyvoice.com/philadlelphia-school-district-public-closing-exessive-heat-september-weather/


    After that fiasco, they opened their usual time after Labor Day in 2019 and 2020 (before the pandemic) while they started putting window ACs into the classrooms of the schools (and who knows if they ever got to all that needed them).

    And then you have this Chamber of Commerce moment -

    Coronavirus Pandemic
    Just one third of elementary classrooms in Philly meet minimum ventilation standards

    By Dale Mezzacappa, Emily Rizzo, Neena Hagen October 29, 2020


    As thousands of Philadelphia parents weigh whether to send their children back to school buildings, a WHYY/Chalkbeat analysis of school air quality evaluations has found that two-thirds of elementary classrooms with completed reports lack even the minimum industry-recommended ventilation standards to safely hold 15 or more people. And one-fifth of elementary schools have no classrooms that can accommodate that many people while meeting the air circulation standards.

    Under the district’s hybrid plan, about 32,000 students in kindergarten through second grade would have the option of returning to school two days a week, with half the group attending on Mondays and Tuesdays and the other half on Thursdays and Fridays, starting on Nov. 30. Staff members are expected to start preparing their classrooms on Nov. 9, less than two weeks away. Parents must decide by Friday whether to send their children back.

    Our analysis is based on 79 reports that are available on the district’s website, out of 119 that officials say have been sent to principals. There are 147 elementary schools and 215 district-run schools in the city. The reports online are for 74 elementary schools and four high schools that house pre-kindergarten programs — Edison, South Philadelphia, Lincoln, and Washington, plus the Rivera building, which is a district office and conference center that houses a private pre-kindergarten program.

    District officials have not explained why all 119 of the reports distributed to principals are not also available online. The school district has had problems with air quality and ventilation in its buildings for years, an issue that has become magnified during the coronavirus pandemic. Transmission of the virus is believed to be higher indoors, and school buildings, unlike hospitals, weren’t designed to mitigate the spread of a contagious disease.

    https://whyy.org/articles/philly-parents-asked-to-make-school-return-decision-with-incomplete-confusing-info/


    ETA - and after that above November attempt, they are only NOW (in March) starting hybrid for the youngest age group here, 4 months later and after going through several weeks of arbitration with a 3rd party arbitrator.

    Their attempt to start back to "in person"/"hybrid" after the winter break this past January for all students was prompted by this nonsense to address "the ventilation" issue -



    And they became the laughing stock of the country.

    And the heating in winter problem (an ongoing issue with different sets of schools every year) -

    Heating problems in Philly schools rise as temperatures plunge

    By Avi Wolfman-Arent January 5, 2018


    With temperatures plummeting, facilities workers in Philadelphia’s public schools have dealt with a steady stream of weather-related maintenance issues. “Our building engineers are working double time on this,” said school district spokesperson Lee Whack. “It gets cold every winter, but obviously not this cold.” The region’s deep freeze has made life especially difficult for the district’s facilities team, which oversees an aging building stock on a limited budget. To replace all the heating systems the district says are on borrowed time would cost more than $70 million, according to a WHYY analysis.

    Building engineers have worked every day since December 26th, including weekends, said Whack, to battle the creeping cold. Maintenance workers will be on the job through this weekend and are expected to arrive early Monday morning to detect any new problems. “This is an all-hands-on-deck effort,” said Whack. At Solis-Cohen school in Northeast Philadelphia, heating issues prompted some students to move classrooms, as reported first by CBS3.

    District officials also acknowledged heating problems at Overbrook Education Center, which serves a large number of visually impaired students, Strawberry Mansion High School, Mastbaum High School, and Nebinger School. At Strawberry Mansion, two heating units froze and a boiler required repair, according to Whack. Overbrook Education Center had at least two classrooms without heat. Nebinger School dealt with overheating due to malfunctioning controls. Mastbaum, meanwhile, had problems with a temporary boiler.

    Whack said problems at all five schools have either been fixed or are in the process of being fixed, and should be remedied by Monday. Staff also reported cold conditions at Cook-Wissahickon School, according to Arthur Steinberg, who runs the health and wellness fund for the city’s teachers union. Staff members at several city schools reached out to WHYY with tales of frigid hallways and drafty classrooms, though all asked to remain anonymous. One staffer at Tilden Middle School in Southwest Philadelphia said students in an autistic support classroom had to be moved because of the cold conditions.

    https://whyy.org/segments/heating-problems-philly-schools-rise-temperatures-plunge/


    And then other issues -

    philadelphia school district
    Vermin, mold found in Philadelphia classrooms
    By Chad Pradelli
    Friday, May 11, 2018


    Deplorable conditions found in Philly schools: Chad Pradelli investigates on Action News at 11 p.m., May 10, 2018
    GERMANTOWN (WPVI) -- Teachers are complaining about deplorable conditions at a School District of Philadelphia School. Roosevelt Elementary School, a K-8 school in the Germantown section of the city, is infested with mice and there are concerns about mold. Teachers at the school turned to Action News Investigative Reporter Chad Pradelli, looking for help. The conditions there are horrible, and teachers and students are fed up. They say learning is being compromised and they want the Philadelphia School District to listen to their concerns.

    One student described the conditions: "its' sickening...sickening...sad..it's nasty" She says mice scamper through Roosevelt's classrooms. Another student, Iyona White, says "they got cockroaches...mice." White said they dart under and over desks, books, and backpacks. 12-year-old Taneesha Perry says the little critters gnaw on her school supplies while she's at lunch. When questioned about the environment, she laughed and said yes. But three Roosevelt teachers aren't laughing. They say conditions at the school have literally had them in tears. "I am constantly cleaning it up," said one teacher. "Multiple times we've come in and there has been feces all over my desk, all over the kid's desk."

    We showed parents the disturbing video of the mice scampering through classrooms. Parent Jamal Grimes was stunned. "I'm absolutely appalled at seeing something like that," he said. "I had no knowledge or idea of the conditions in there." These teachers say they've made repeated complaints about the mice and other troubling conditions. "We had a period of probably the first three weeks of winter where the heat wasn't on at all." Not only that, they say the roof leaks during heavy rains. An old library and pool are abandoned inside and closed off. An Independent Building Condition Assessment by the district in 2015 states the areas get "massive water infiltration."

    The teachers have concerns about mold. "This year we were told we couldn't come back for a week because they were scraping the mold off the walls," said one teacher. Action News showed the disturbing to Philadelphia School District officials. A spokesperson said,"What I saw in the video is unacceptable. It should not be happening in any of our schools." District Spokesperson, Lee Whack, admits Roosevelt is in poor condition. But he says school maintenance crews conducted 10 rodent inspections during the school year. "It's been an ongoing problem and we've been working to correct it, and we are going to be doing even more coming up," Whack said. The District announced to Action News Thursday that Roosevelt will be undergoing a $7.5 million renovation beginning this summer.

    https://6abc.com/education/vermin-mold-found-in-philadelphia-classrooms/3456251/


    And currently, as I posted upthread, they are dealing with asbestos abatement throughout a number of schools (which is easier to do with no kids or teachers/staff there this past year). They were lambasted for this crap that happened in 2019 -

    IG report: High school construction project exposed Philadelphia students, staff to ‘deplorable conditions’

    By Dale Mezzacappa Aug 19, 2020, 1:37pm EDT


    The botched construction project to move the elite Science Leadership Academy into Benjamin Franklin High School last year was plagued by “a series of critical missteps,” according to a report released Wednesday by the district’s Inspector General. The errors — including an unrealistic timeline and the decision for Benjamin Franklin students to remain in the building during the renovations — exposed “students, staff, and contractors to deplorable conditions and caused costs to balloon, according to the 124-page report. Among the more startling revelations: Some staff members at Ben Franklin were hospitalized for breathing problems as construction dust swirled through the building during the work conducted during the 2018-19 school year.

    Concerns from staff, including the principal, were ignored. Principal Christine Borelli advised the month before school started in September 2019 that the building was not ready for SLA to move in, but those warnings also were not heeded. Two SLA students with asthma were hospitalized before the building was finally closed. “The district failed, at multiple junctures, to appreciate these missteps, heed concerns about the conditions created at the outset and during the construction, and to plan for a contingency in the event that the project could not be completed on time,” read the report. The district’s Office of the Inspector General reports directly to the Board of Education, which commissioned the probe after the disastrous start for both schools a year ago.

    Board President Joyce Wilkerson said it was “crucial to have an independent investigation [to] clearly understand what went wrong.” She called the report’s findings “deeply problematic.” Superintendent William Hite, who also called for the investigation, reiterated that he “deeply regret[s] how the project unfolded and the significant, negative impact it had on the students and staff of both school communities.” In a briefing for reporters Wednesday, he and Wilkerson said that the district is already implementing many of the report’s recommendations. In releasing the report, Hite sent a letter to parents and staff vowing that the district “is fully committed to learning from this experience.”

    In addition to exposing people to toxic conditions, the botched work resulted in the temporary relocation of the two schools at the beginning of the last school year and “marred what should have been a stellar achievement” for the district, the report said. The report described the renovation as “too ambitious” for the allotted time frame and initial budget of $10 million. Students, staff, and contractors were exposed to unsafe conditions that the district wasn’t equipped to deal with, ultimately increasing the cost of the project to more than $50 million, according to the report.

    https://philadelphia.chalkbeat.org/2020/8/19/21375865/high-school-construction-project-exposed-philadelphia-students-staff


    This is why I call them "old piece of junk buildings". It's a chronic problem due to the chronic issue of PA's bullshit of being the only state without a "dedicated funding formula" for schools.

    These buildings may be architecturally "important", showcasing a certain era a century ago, but the insides are like CRAP and death traps.

    pampango

    (24,692 posts)
    38. Accusing the CDC of being 'political' (too liberal, too conservative) has a familiar ring to it.
    Sat Mar 20, 2021, 04:44 PM
    Mar 2021

    Looking for the evidence behind the recommendation is fair. Accusing it of being 'political' because its science does not lead in the direction our politics would prefer is too 'right wing' for me.

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