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Fri Jun 11, 2021, 07:25 AM

Evidence grows stronger for Covid vaccine link to heart issue, CDC says

Source: NBC News

A higher-than-usual number of cases of a type of heart inflammation has been reported following Covid-19 vaccination, especially among young men following their second dose of an mRNA vaccine, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Thursday.

Overall, 226 cases of myocarditis or pericarditis after vaccination in people younger than age 30 have been confirmed, Dr. Tom Shimabukuro, deputy director of the CDC's Immunization Safety Office, said during a presentation to a Food and Drug Administration advisory group. Further investigation is needed, however, to confirm whether the vaccination was the cause of the heart problem. Normally, fewer than 100 cases would be expected for this age group.

Teenagers and people in their early 20s accounted for more than half of the myocarditis cases reported to the CDC's safety monitoring systems following Covid-19 vaccination, despite representing a fraction of people who have received the shots.

"We clearly have an imbalance there," Shimabukuro said.

Read more: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/evidence-grows-stronger-covid-vaccine-link-heart-issue-cdc-says-n1270339

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Reply Evidence grows stronger for Covid vaccine link to heart issue, CDC says (Original post)
madville Yesterday OP
Botany Yesterday #1
COL Mustard Yesterday #2
Botany Yesterday #3
Tom Rinaldo Yesterday #7
Botany Yesterday #15
FBaggins Yesterday #32
AllyCat Yesterday #34
COL Mustard Yesterday #20
Jedi Guy Yesterday #21
COL Mustard Yesterday #31
madville Yesterday #11
Botany Yesterday #16
Sancho Yesterday #42
jaxexpat Yesterday #12
Botany Yesterday #17
piddyprints Yesterday #9
AllyCat Yesterday #35
madville Yesterday #10
cstanleytech Yesterday #40
LiberalArkie Yesterday #4
madville Yesterday #5
LiberalArkie Yesterday #18
bucolic_frolic Yesterday #6
oldsoftie Yesterday #24
Sancho Yesterday #8
jaxexpat Yesterday #13
Crowman2009 Yesterday #14
Lucky Luciano Yesterday #22
Sancho Yesterday #43
Lucky Luciano Yesterday #45
NewEnglandAutumn Yesterday #19
NH Ethylene Yesterday #26
LifeLongDemocratic Yesterday #23
MineralMan Yesterday #25
flibbitygiblets Yesterday #27
Botany Yesterday #29
IronLionZion Yesterday #30
speak easy Yesterday #39
IronLionZion Yesterday #44
LittleGirl Yesterday #36
NH Ethylene Yesterday #28
Tommymac Yesterday #33
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Yesterday #37
Sgent Yesterday #38
salin Yesterday #41

Response to madville (Original post)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 07:55 AM

1. Of the 226 cases of the myocarditis is after how million doeses of vaccine?

n/t

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Response to Botany (Reply #1)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 08:04 AM

2. Exactly.

226 out of over 175 million vaccines? Can they show a causal connection, or is this just more ammunition for the anti-vaxxers, especially now that many of us are magnetized?

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Response to COL Mustard (Reply #2)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 08:06 AM

3. 226/175,000,000 or a .00013 chance. If i did the math right.

226/175,000,000 = .0000013 or .00013% chance vs getting a potentially deadly disease that
killed more Americans in one year vs all of WW II.

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Response to Botany (Reply #3)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 08:24 AM

7. While I fully agree with you about the risk being tiny vs the huge "rewards" of getting vaccinated

the statistics you are using are distorted. There are many examples of potential negative side effects of a treatment being mostly confined to a specific demographic among the population at large. This may be one of them. The primary focus here is on males under 30. With the J&J vaccine, for example, the slightly enhanced risk of rare blood clots was mostly to women of child bearing age. There have not been 175,000,000 shots administered to males under 30.

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #7)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 09:14 AM

15. You are right.

I don't know the # of males < 30 who have got the vaccines. It is still a pretty small risk factor.
But that reality will not stop the anti vaccine idiots from trying to use this information to push their
agenda.


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Response to Botany (Reply #15)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 12:04 PM

32. It DOES seem to be a pretty small risk factor

But that has to be balanced against the also pretty small risk factor of COVID to an otherwise healthy male under 30.

There are plenty of vaccines that are indicated for specific age ranges but not others.

You don't have to be anti-vax in general (or anti-COVID-vax in particular) in order to be open to the possibility that certain people should not get this jab. Particularly if overall infection rates in the population continue to decline (reducing the risk of community spread caused by some people being unvaccinated).

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #32)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 12:15 PM

34. people need to be aware, but myo-/pericarditis are treatable conditions

Rest and antibiotics are usually all one needs if we watch for symptoms and catch it early.

Then, again, this is the US where no one can really afford to go to the hospital, even with insurance.

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #7)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 09:52 AM

20. I'm Not A Statistician, And I Don't Even Do Beer Math In Public

And I know the base of 176 million is too large since it encompasses the entire population. But no matter what the "right" number is, there will be anti-vaxxers who will seize on the side effects of any of the vaccines. That said, I'd much rather have gotten the vaccine, even with the potential side effects, than to have gotten COVID.

Now, since I'm magnetized (I still can't believe that one) can somebody help me get this skillet off my hands????

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Response to COL Mustard (Reply #20)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 09:55 AM

21. Get yourself a fancy helmet and cape and you could be Magneto! N/T

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #21)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 11:42 AM

31. Perfect!!!

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Response to Botany (Reply #3)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 08:30 AM

11. It's 226 out of mostly males age 16-24

So the number may be more like 226 cases out of 10,000,000. Not 175 million. Still not a big amount, just double the normal rate.

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Response to madville (Reply #11)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 09:15 AM

16. With 100 cases being the normal load of cases in that population.

n/t

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Response to Botany (Reply #16)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 02:13 PM

42. "Normal" out of a random population...those who chose to be vaccinated are a self-selected...

...non-random sample! In other words, the 226 are a sample from an UNKNOWN population, so no one really knows what the expected number of cases should occur.



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Response to Botany (Reply #3)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 08:35 AM

12. Obviously, this is a Democrat plot to.....you know.....numbers!

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Response to jaxexpat (Reply #12)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 09:26 AM

17. The real #s we should be talking about. " ....COVID cases have fallen by 90% since January."

" ....COVID cases have fallen by 90% since January."
Team Biden

Biden Harris email this AM (June 8th)

Last week, President Biden announced a National Month of Action to make sure we can administer at least one COVID-19 vaccine to 70% of U.S. adults by July 4.

Already, over 63% of U.S. adults have received at least one vaccine dose, and thatís had a huge impact on beating back this virus -- COVID cases have fallen by 90% since January.

But itís going to take all of us organizing in our communities, having conversations with our friends and loved ones, and spreading the word on social media to hit President Bidenís vaccination goal by July 4.

Getting as many people vaccinated as possible is key to building back better, Botany. Weíve already seen what this grassroots team can accomplish together, and getting folks vaccinated is the next step.

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Response to Botany (Reply #1)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 08:26 AM

9. Not only that,

But myocarditis can happen with an actual Covid infection. I'd still take my chance with the vaccine.

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Response to piddyprints (Reply #9)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 12:18 PM

35. That is the other thing. Myocarditis and pericarditis are MUCH more likely

if one gets Covid. Looking at the odds, I took the chances and got both my male teenagers vaxxed. We are watching for symptoms of this serious condition, but the likelihood is small. One has already been quarantined and they both got exposed at school within two weeks of going back.

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Response to Botany (Reply #1)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 08:27 AM

10. It's primarily males in the 16-24 age range that are affected

So say 226 cases out of maybe 10,000,000 recipients.

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Response to Botany (Reply #1)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 01:24 PM

40. To be fair it's 226 that they are currently aware of however even if there are more unreported ones

I suspect that itís going to be an extremely small number.

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Response to madville (Original post)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 08:13 AM

4. Teenagers were not able to get the vaccine until just recently and not many have gotten it.

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Response to LiberalArkie (Reply #4)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 08:22 AM

5. Correct, that makes the 226 cases number more significant

Cases are more than double the normal rate in the same age range with no vaccine.

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Response to madville (Reply #5)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 09:28 AM

18. Exactly

I had pericarditis when I was about 30. I thought I had pulled a chest muscle. Eventually I went to the hospital and they thought I was having a heart attack and eventually diagnosed as pericarditis. 3 days of IV antibiotics and I was fine.

The cause of pericarditis often remains unknown but is believed to be most often due to a viral infection.

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Response to madville (Original post)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 08:23 AM

6. There are always risks

with vaccines or any medication or procedure, though that's small consolation to those afflicted.

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Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #6)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 10:32 AM

24. Really; look at the TV ads for different medications!

1/2 the ad is taken up listing the possible side effects

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Response to madville (Original post)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 08:25 AM

8. Correlation is not causality....

how many times does this have to be said before news folks get it?

Maybe the kind of people who chose to be vaccinated are more likely to get myocarditis. Maybe the people who get the vaccine have doctors and insurance, so they are more likely to be diagnosed. There are a pile of rival hypotheses besides a vaccine cause...and there is no way to experimentally "cause" kids to get myocarditis in order to prove a mechanism...so it will take years of post hoc reviews and animal studies, etc. to show causality.

Chances are that kids who get myocarditis also prefer blue shirts or don't like chocolate! If you correlate many variables, there are always random (and usually very small) relationships that are usually meaningless. Real causes are usually difficult to find in all the noise.

Any investigation triggers the news people into illogical frenzies no matter how many times some doctor or scientist tries to put out the fire - and meanwhile the anti-vaccine people have more reason to get stirred up.

I blame the news people for premature newsjaculataion...

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Response to Sancho (Reply #8)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 08:40 AM

13. Major cause for misinflammation of the cerebellum, too.

Also rumored to cause blindness and impaired judgement.

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Response to madville (Original post)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 08:51 AM

14. For all we know, they may have had unrelated heart problems before the vaccine.

More young people have been having heart problems nowadays due to poor diet, overconsumption of energy drinks, no exercise, etc.

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Response to Crowman2009 (Reply #14)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 09:56 AM

22. They corrected for that.

They estimate that the normal number of cases would have been 100, but there were 226 in this sample.

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Response to Lucky Luciano (Reply #22)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 02:19 PM

43. How do you correct for self-selection to get the vaccine?

Other than demographics, there is no way to know right now if the kind of person who chooses to get vaccinated is different than the same person who chooses not to get the vaccine.

The comparison of with the number of cases expected in a population is based on the number of cases of carditis reported over years of time in some database, but that database has no subset of "those who chose to get a vaccine". In other words, it would be easy to make a false conclusion - especially with such a small sample and so many confounding variables.

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Response to Sancho (Reply #43)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 02:45 PM

45. I don't think there is a conclusion...just something to look into.

It is also my assumption that a properly run scientific analysis includes the control group that has not gotten vaccinated.

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Response to madville (Original post)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 09:47 AM

19. Irresponsible reporting IMHO

Too many questions are left unasked
-cases per___ in non vaccinated population group vs. cases per__in vaccinated population.
-how many of those in each population had actual Covid at some point
-what about females in each population group

The report fails to note correlation v causation. In fact I believe that the press is doing a TERRIBLE job helping people understand what correlation v causation is and what it means. They just have been tossing raw data out for public consumption in an attempt to generate headlines. I also believe that the vast majority of reports in the media about Covid data/trends (particularly concerning vaccine safety) has failed to help people to understand what the data/trends actually means and that because of this the media is doing more harm than good.
-->The whole 'pause' re. J&J vaccine probably happened because of poor reporting & it caused a huge increase in vaccine hesitancy & waste of a LOT of vaccine doses.

All bad reporting does is legitimize the disinformation campaigns in the minds of more people.

**sorry if this post is poorly written I'm seriously sleep deprived at the moment

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Response to NewEnglandAutumn (Reply #19)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 10:48 AM

26. We deserve to know all the developments.

Concealing something like this would be far worse.

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Response to madville (Original post)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 09:58 AM

23. Heart issue caused by COVID

It is also possible that these 226 cases were caused by them getting COVID and not realizing it which caused the myocarditis. They then got the vaccine and myocarditis symptoms appeared which was caused by COVID and not the vaccine.

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Response to LifeLongDemocratic (Reply #23)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 10:46 AM

25. This

^^^

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Response to LifeLongDemocratic (Reply #23)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 10:49 AM

27. That's a really good point.

Welcome to DU!

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Response to LifeLongDemocratic (Reply #23)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 10:55 AM

29. +1 Good point!




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Response to LifeLongDemocratic (Reply #23)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 11:27 AM

30. They must have tested for COVID

Any sort of ER or hospital care these days requires a COVID test. Unless they had COVID a while ago. Maybe the vaccine immune response was a sort of tipping point if they had a weakened heart from asymptomatic infection before.

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #30)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 01:18 PM

39. The anti-bodies for Covid and the vaccines are virtually indistinguishable

- that is the point of the vaccines after all.

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Response to speak easy (Reply #39)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 02:44 PM

44. The viral test is for current active infections

that's what's used in ER/Hospitals.

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Response to LifeLongDemocratic (Reply #23)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 12:31 PM

36. Welcome to DU!

Exactly! Maybe we should be checking antibodies before vaccinating?

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Response to madville (Original post)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 10:53 AM

28. For young people I think it's more a matter of comparing the risk of myocarditis

to the risk of serious Covid.

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Response to madville (Original post)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 12:09 PM

33. I hate these - Anti Vaxxer Spin. The Headline SUCKS!

I'll not comment - i'll get a warning if so Nuff said.

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Response to madville (Original post)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 12:41 PM

37. Heart Inflammation Rate After Second COVID Vaccine Is 16 in a Million: CDC

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has said it is going to hold a meeting to discuss rare reports of heart inflammation, or myocarditis/pericarditis, in COVID vaccine patients.

The news follows a meeting of the Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee on Thursday, in which data showed that as of May 31, there have been a total of 216 reports of the condition after the first dose of either Pfizer or Moderna vaccines. There were 573 reports after the second dose.

The CDC notes that at least 81 percent of discharged patients aged 30 and under made a full recovery, according to limited outcome data.

It should also be noted that these few heart inflammation cases have arisen out of more than 165 million people who had received at least one dose of a COVID vaccine at the time the data was collected, highlighting their rarity.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/heart-inflammation-rate-after-second-covid-vaccine-is-16-in-a-million-cdc/ar-AAKWrpT z

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Response to madville (Original post)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 01:01 PM

38. Its an issue

but realize that the Big 10 physicians were finding real incidence rates of myocarditis in college athletes after Covid infection (early on).

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2780548

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Response to Sgent (Reply #38)

Fri Jun 11, 2021, 01:32 PM

41. I forgot about that. It was big new here (I'm in a Big 10 town.)

Thanks for the reminder.

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